the, the, the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the idea of brick started out as a wall street investment gimmick, focusing on developing nations today. this is the organization many in the global south one to be part of. and the reason is simple to avoid and finally be freed from western gemini, the for us talking bricks and the global south i'm joined by my guess has, i knew now. and this symbol is a professor at the department of political science and international relations at

mile tip university inside out. and we have for, for is avi. he is an associate professor at the department of world studies at the university up to them. and in kyra, we crossed to your hand l. shaky. she is a professor of political science at cairo university. all right, across i propose that effect, that means you can jump it anytime you want. and i always appreciate, let's go to assemble. i, in my introduction that i said that the centrally would be the mission of the brakes is now maybe not back then in 2001, when it was invented by goldman sachs was now this is a strategy for the global south to free itself from a western had germany, do you think that is a good synopsis of what we are, where we are right now with breaks? oh, certainly yes. i think um, this is one of the things that the multiply to has page b and the all for today and global solve a global uh, you know, uh all the, all the nations in the world basically and at it at 2 remarks on need to tear

perhaps we need to make 2 remarks and one is that as the war broke out and you creating a to approach on the west, the are going to approach on the west. i should say basically pushed many of these countries to search for ways to get together in solidarity one way or do either. because the western approach was something like this. you know, you are either with us or you are against task. and what about neutrality? you know, the whole, the menu of the countries in the world would like to benefit from the emerging new jewel politics. so why not? uh, why not basically getting on with that. and why should we become a pothole? take a collective west and, and join onto russian sanctions and what have you, i think, and there's played an important role in doubt. you treat all day and the many countries. and the other thing is that the, the west started out with

a shrewd propaganda about russia. uh, coming down to eats news in, not so long. eh, you know, you know, being in future. and it's going to be, it's not going to take long photoshop to basically, um, uh, we give up the water and all that. so the non we came out true. and these basically and cottage menu of the nation's menu of the states across the world to come together. first of all, if you come together, then you are getting a better position to protect your interest and, and also protect yourself from the west. well yeah, that's exactly. yeah, that's what we've seen with the sanctions here. okay. first of all the primary sanctions on russia and then they side so i can and secondary sanctions against everybody else. it gives us let's go to our gibson instead. um, i mean it's, it's very interesting, i'm glad that has brought this up because the conflict

a new crane is made. people look even more closely ad breaks as an alternative to the, to the rules based order. whatever that means, i've never been able to understand it. outside of the west makes the rules and everybody else follows their orders. okay. the bricks and other international far uh for our an alternative and it's desperately needed. go ahead and put on as you know, in that i'm, we haven't been experiencing board to assess the sanctions. and so you can hand sanctions for the last 4 the years. and the fact that the, you know, i'm in, people have been able to sort of live address is the fact that the actually eat on is becoming a strong guess. under sanctions, it shows that it's possible to visit is the same as human, meet on at all, what it is i've done it on the data depends on the rest and so forth. of the government ever. some actually is going to knock some

buying on speed on, you know, i'm a for arms and so the attorney in the fuse, it'd be nice and after it's super was in the rest and media that russia is the buying arms from utah. so there be and then you're on the for the, the based on what, what the rest and those are. the 1st thing is actually the bars. it is possible to basically have a country that is able to achieve its goals. but then as the experience think, fixed as and the 2nd time and the sanctions, you know, the united states is why they think that to you on this illusion. one is because the ones that was the nuclear div that's only why they think of that stuff in the country that wants to follow that the like having normal trading relations, etc. the us sanctions those countries. well, it's interesting that you mentioned the trade. i mean, it sounds,

if you can trade freely and for yourself of the dollar, you truly have the possibility to pursue your own prosperity. because when you're in western financial institutions, they will dictate your relative success. look at they do. we are a nominally friendly country like turkey, and it's currently let's go to our guests in cairo. you know, it's interesting, you know, when i, i've been actually to brick savannah. so you know, many, many years ago and i wasn't really kind of sure if it was gonna go anywhere because visit avenue ideology, a lot of the countries that have contradictions when it comes to how they approach the west. and there's, it's not uniform whatsoever. but now i see that it really has a, an important role to play because every time the g 7 gets together, i keep thinking to myself. but g seven's voice gets smaller and smaller and smaller . but they still control a lot of the institutions. and that's the problem. go ahead and kyra to, i think

a decision the most so, mean we serve institutions like i m f as the water bag that go to the village. you oh, those institutions and the sort of bill that is now what it said. a lot because they are more on the more with the size institution they are not hoping has the no help from those institution that conditionality imposed by all you may have a world bank is very hard for, for all the economists and in the south. and actually it doesn't give any help to a tool to austin in the south, and we are now suffering from the depth and troubles beds on the lake of stability. own globe solid. now looking forward to the future, to more problems, more justice and the economic older. and that's a trace to introduce the future end of the product since the product,

enough ship. and the i'm not talking about imposing is sort of jim mall. the nomic grow heavier to speak to a specific g o n u country and every country. but of the same time, we are building very hub for corporation on the match world respect match, well eh, benefits and interests, and that's hope all a lot. so that's why many countries in the south, including egypt now looking to praise and winning, really to be part of that's cool because it is very hot before even a bank of praise and introducing roland assistance. but look in the different pieces and the functionality of why i am the ad. importantly, as i pointed out, to not do it in dollars because when you do it in dollars, you become a hostage here. let's go back to as simple as one of the interesting things is

a very interesting literature on it is the world beyond the west. and that was very fear radical even like 10 years ago. now it's becoming a reality because this is the brakes. the phenomenon is not in a front, it's not on our or frontal attack on the west, or just say we're gonna go our own way. we're going to go a different way and we, we just don't want to have anything to do with your institutions. we what we can do in a better way and, and probably more transparent way and without the head gemini, that the west is presented the world for the last 500 years. go ahead and assemble . well, i think again, as you put that and then we are at the initial stages of being to be several stages of multiple out, i'd say, i would think. and at this stage where all the nations of the world, apart from the collective west are concentrating on getting a, getting free and from the west. and well, just dictation and from dental words. and there's going to be an a lot. so pretty align. but, you know, at the regional level,

some would be the universe of i'm and eh, these re align months will basically offer lots of opportunities for all the countries i'm at. because the free year day off from the western dictation, the more or fortunate to use they will acquire from various jo, political conditions as well as trading opportunities. and what have you. and this is what is i thing happening. and this is what the collective west is trying to prevent. that is why the nations across, through, for across the globe are sort, i mean, as you said 10 years ago, no one would ever predict that and multiply that would be offering so much to so many i've been use for all this stage to basically get to to, to steer clear at better line or policy for themselves to protect data interest from the west

a but now we are having all of that and i think this is getting to developed into something more important with the brakes. and what have you indicated on the brakes? i would say that it may be time for members of the brakes to change its name to something proper. you know, because if you cannot just, you know, carry on adding one letter. yeah. ok. well, j was it'll be valid. so just it will be very difficult to say because we don't have enough bottles in there. no one will be able to say exactly or i have to jump in here. i would have to jump in here. we're not going to well now to that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on bricks in the global south space with auntie the

oh, what else seemed wrong? just don't you have to shape house because after and engagement, it was the trail. when so many find themselves will support, we choose to look so common ground the the at the end of the 18th century, great britain began to conquer and colonize australia. from the very beginning of

the british penetration to the continent, natives were subjected to severe violence and deliberate extra patient. according to modern historians, in the 1st 140 years, there were at least 270 massacres of local b. both any resistance to the british was answered with double cruelty. hundreds of natives were killed for the murder of one settler. indigenous australians were not considered complete people. no wild beast of the forest was ever hunted down with such unsparing perseverance has they are men, women and children are shot when ever they can be met with squatter, henry myrick wrote in a letter to his family in england, in $1846.00 plus strategy as bad as these rightly described as blood. so, and racist eve at the beginning of colonization, there were one and a half 1000000 indigenous people living on the continent. then by the beginning of the 20th century, their number had degrees still 100000 people. despite the indisputable historical

facts, the problem of full recognition of the crimes of white australians against aborigines has not been resolved so far. the welcome act across the dock were all things are considered on peter la belcher mind. you were discussing bricks and the global self. the okay, me before we go to our guest into the site and i cut you off because we had to go to a break. what would your, the new name would be? i didn't hear it. what would you call it? wall on i, i would propose in the united 12 because the punches are getting united against west and had germany on the one hand and they are united for data uh, and prosperity. okay, so i think there's like, let's go back to town right now. what you, you said somebody in your 1st answer here,

a talking about the sanctions against around. i might surprise you considering the suffering that around this had to go through for the last 40 years. but i actually do not want western sanctions to be dropped against russia. i want a clean cut from those institutions. ok? because they are the only the only time you're actually going to be free. you can be except my free. you have to make a cut. it can be painful, and iran is a very important example to learn from the study from because from what i understand, it's essentially self sufficient. that's something that a lot of countries like when you're self sufficient, you're in a good trading position. go ahead and cut out you know, a number of decades that will experience a new color on the other side. you know, doing the colonial video. so the british many channels, but the, have a general running or crunched often. the colonialism is some of the countries in the south gain independence, but they've controlled by office, govern government,

select the shows governments in your problem and that led by people to look like you, i'm years, but there is the following. or there's funds of us in the new or colonialism era. the idea was to put the rules and regulations and institutions that to all countries have to follow the no matter who was running the country. so you could have lucian or the government to meet on that was supposed to follow those rules. the same way to show us government was supposed to funded the. so the good news about the brakes and get on his spoken to to be able to join books and you don't have to change the name because there's already an i the basically the point would be a venue. how come to think institutions you have had a set top so you know what, what the difficulties that you don't have to have in the past was that this,

let's take stuff at this banking messaging system. swift and, and then now these, the russians are building their own safety systems, the chinese, cuz i think they're also system briggs is having as some of the idea of and uh, you know, the dollar disease. sure that's about it was talking about for many years is actually happening. you know, in and restaurant trading in them much more aggressive a more much more broad today than what you have just a few years ago. and so we are seeing ourselves from the new colonialism period. that's good news and it's able to be able to survive even how can i say that you're on his own exam? yeah, it's got, it's got to cut are all know what's very interesting to me is a new new look at the a foreign policy guru, a, b, you, joseph burrell. i mean, he's kind of an embarrassment for the europeans. every time he opens his mouth,

you know about the garden and the jungle. apparently you're in the jungle. okay. apparently i live in the jungle too. and it really is, it really is reflective of a certain mindset. now rules space daughter and all of this comes out. it's really a cover for a new form of meal colonialism. and i don't even think they're aware of it. it's a, it's a habit of mind that they're not even aware of, and they can't break free of. and it's taking, it's taking the global south, the global majority, the tell the west we no longer have to live this way because we're not afraid of you. and we don't respect you anymore. go ahead in cairo. a 1st of all, let me comment on the name. uh, i take it. the name is, is that a valid because breaks it being a also to break a limited can wisdom hit germonti and not bite the fittest natures of the member of

state, but the meaning overpaid itself or praise itself. and this is very important to continue with that we are taking the old, the, the american rules of hedge your money over the homework for what you mention, i think you but your, of as well as a, not just stays the vault to see the so the loved to the so i was to africa to a lot of countries with them. i used to everywhere as just i sold a full band development the so the uh, the uh, from my point of view of the, uh, the, the can a lot about our development dollar prosperity, our, the don't, we're really willing to help us. they won't allow us to, to continue as slaves to buy a way or another to sell them develop into, to serve their economy and their prosperity as this is, i think, very dangerous because, so now i cannot accept any more. and any country you,

that's the global solid needs, the development on, on the basis of much one of the stake, match what benefit win win situation. that's why pigs to is very attractive because this is what they are building on calibration. on a win win situation. a little was a big hole in it, does the bundle together as it is, there is no way that's a global countries or one country will be developed as the other will continue in poverty as in a very bad situation. and you have to the bottom to get that and the home or the going forward or not would be no development as oh. and i think that's a board or any are being official. the usually, as i mentioned in the, don't say solace. don't just speak the even know to uh, that's um, a deal of the way the m and the, the, the,

do you know that your at talk to, to a whole with a get out from your brain was after a guy at north is only a 3 percent the the kid above africa, about 100 people about the food crisis in our country. the only care about themselves. we don't see other others unless we impose to be able to speak to them. our interested to be respected. yeah. was on, you know, one of the things is that, you know, you weeks, we've talked a lot about the need for development and in bricks is a conduit for that. and it's a, it's a tire approach when, when we've heard that here already on this program here. but, you know, the chinese will build ports in schools and hospitals, but the americans want to send a military base to your country. that's their development. okay. and that is really

a very fire juxtaposition, you know, be a, to you, either your sanctioned by the west or you by arms from the west. that's the, that's what the, how the global south is treated. go ahead and assemble as well. yes. as you put it, uh, quite clearly, you know, the optic canal officials and also reduce keep saying that each time the, they have a chinese visiting day and countries they are, the chinese delegation would be behind the separate on the investment projects and, and the construction of schools and buildings and other things to where when the matter comes and the others go to the same country, they would be lecturing them on democratize ation. and i'm selling you are either with us or you are against us. you know, and, and i mean, all this is starting to come to an end. i think, as you, i think, pointed out that my, uh, getting your presenter is during our initial remarks. the, there's

a multiple are, it is not going to be based on ideal logical divisions which is good. so that is all going to be exact base of the national interest of each. and every nation is getting to basically know costa data on the interest, and that is at once you have that done, then it would be more of now, you know, it would start to alter mall corporation. it's a thing about prosperity because it is all about your national interest, you know, and it would also be a short term the much, much more just the international. uh, if you like the order. uh, the as opposed to the and the lowes pays internationally. yeah. i mean, it is what we have here. let's go to our guest and turn around to mean,

you know who the rules based order. again, whatever that's supposed to mean. but what it's actually does substitute the un charter, and that's on this point. and now that countries, solver and countries make national decision is just not really complicated, but the west is very much against that. and i think that the greatest strength of the present form of breaks is that it is completely non ideological. that's in strength. because the west is the ideological um, dominant for us right now. they were, they were, they're run by audiology. the rest of the world is saying, we want pragmatism. go ahead and turn around. if we disagree with you assess this across population. understood to that. i don't think it's possible to not have an idea of that, but the idea to jump through is, is going to have a number of components. the 1st component of the big spend 3 is that is, is this, think of this and having to as required work, you're moving towards that multi point. i will then during this transition time

you're going to have difficulties to before it gets any easier. so you need to develop that culture of resistance and then russia and china and you're on. those countries are saying noted in the united states, they are basically pass practicing that are the image of numbers. this is this, this thing the best thing to jump to is. the 2nd component of that i, the other do is just spec thing. the other part is going to equal to the country. they want this in the military base. they want to dictate this, the, all this is that the post entry and the, if you have a government that's not funding or there's under a sense, they want to have it with this home. that this is the 2nd part of that idea. all that you do respect the independence of countries solving 2 of these, you know, what the united nations charter was supposed to achieve. well, so that's again,

not what we've run out of time. but i'm glad that we've ended on talking about the united nations charter because that's the big, that's the level playing field for everyone. and that's the way it should be. it's all the time you have one. i think mike, yes, and this time both of them and in cairo, and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time and remember process was the the the

the question of the money. the new, clear above seeing those words isn't like a new live muscle. if you look on the initial do, while of course, significant dealer post on zillow, while it be almost getting used to put value, what do you do origin. but he also has to was done the newest frame on the belief systems to build a new do what i see these the buses. the little gear relation says this to,

to do them both the hungry. this being a member of the european union and nato since 1999 during the 1st post. so good wave of nato's eastwood expansion number to be sales because of your streaming august sites. is the land line for the sea like that uh by the clench its um e. so me, i mean if so we get back. i shall zap, i did do my ads to avoid the motion the beach. but i see, but i see us play, that's virtually some of which is on the way in the early ninety's hungry was a country with a west view of russia to day star of disagreements left over from the soviet union . the why do you, what did you some of mine your somebody i don't want to see if you roll up, you must somebody in the compare the police report more than otherwise i seize.

great. and i did is a, if the police are for those with the capital of washing bella, next, the city continued to define the global depths. colton, the passenger train, the rentals in india, leaving at least 50 people, the 350 things on the same. helping those who may still be trapped. the people have been killed in clashes between police and supporters of an open.