to need to come up with the overarching framework to deal with the fundamental philosophical and actual threat tape on top of who relates as well as news on the baseline. checking on websites on team dealt home ways. we appreciate your company . thank you for choosing auntie. it's much the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered on peter lavelle. the idea of brick started out as a wall street investment gimmick, focusing on developing nations today. this is the organization many in the global south one to be part of. and the reason is simple to avoid and finally be freed

from western gemini, the cross talking bricks and the global south. i'm joined by my guess as i knew now. and this nimble is a professor at the department of political science and international relations at mile tip. university inside out and we have for fraud is id. he is an associate professor at the department of world studies at the university of the around and in cairo. we crossed to your hand l. shaky. she is a professor of political science at cairo university. all right, across our role is that effect, that means you can jump it anytime you want, and i always appreciate, let's go to assemble i in my introduction, then i said that the sensually what the, the mission of the brakes is now maybe not back. then in 2001, when it was invented by goldman sachs, was now this is a strategy for the global south to free itself from a western had germany. do you think that is a good synopsis of what we are,

where we are right now with breaks? oh, certainly yes. i think um, this is one of the things that the multiply to as basically am the offered today at global solve a global uh you know, uh on the all the nations in the world basically. and at a time to remarks on need to tear. perhaps we need to make 2 remarks and one is that as the war broke out in the crating um, a, the approach of the west, the auto going top row, trump, the west, i should say. and basically pushed many of these countries to search for ways to get together in solid dotted one way or do either because the western approach was something like this. you know, you are either with us or you out of gains task. and what about neutrality? you know, what holding menu of the countries in the world would like to benefit from the emerging new jewel politics side. why not?

uh, why not basically carry on with that and is why should we become an adult daycare collected west and, and joining entourage and sanctions and what have you i think and there's played an important role in the attitude all day and the many countries and the other thing um, is that the, the west started out with a shrewd propaganda about russia. uh, uh, coming down to eats news in, not so long. eh, you know, you know, being in future and it's going to be, it's not going to take long photoshop to basically, um, uh, give up the water and all that. so that not only came out true. and this basically and cottage, many of the nations, many of the states across the world to come together. first of all, if you come together, then you are in

a better position to protect your interest and, and also protect yourself from the west. well yeah, that's exactly. yeah, that's a way of saying with the sanctions here. i'll tell you 1st of all the primary sanctions on russia and then they say executive secondary sanctions against everybody else. it gives us let's go to our gibson instead. um, i mean, it's very interesting, i'm glad that has brought this up because the conflict and ukraine is a made people look even more closely ad breaks as an alternative to the, to the rules based order. whatever that means, i've never been able to understand that outside of the west makes the rules and everybody else follows their orders. okay. the bricks and other international of our, uh for our, an alternative and its desperately needed. go ahead and put on as you know, in that i'm, you haven't been experiencing board to assess the sanctions. and so you can hand sanctions for the last 4 the years. and the fact that the, you know, i'm in,

people have been able to sort of live address is the fact that the extra lead on is becoming a strong guess. under sanctions, it shows that it's possible to visit as the sun has them on the remember using date on that off the water is i've done it on, you know, depends eh, revolution in 1979 have been withdrawn or less than some, but the government has some actually is going to not some buying armstrong. you don't ask the soviet union at that time. the, for on spent soviet union, the fuse. it'd be 9 nines. and after the 30 some years, and it's reported in the western media that russia is the buying arms from utah. so there be and then you're on it for the, the based on what the rest centers are reporting is actually providing that are so it is possible to, is this, it is possible to go through was that,

is it possible to basically have a country that is able to achieve its goals, the experience, things like this and the 2nd time and the sanctions, you know, the united states is why they think that to you on the solution is because the ones that was the nuclear div that's only why they didn't get that. so any country that wants to follow that the, like have an online trading relations, which here are the us sanctions, those countries. well, it's interesting that you mentioned that trade. i mean, it sounds on the face of it really, but now, but if you can trade freely and for yourself of the dollar, you truly have the policy, the ability to pursue your own prosperity. because when you're in western financial institutions, they will dictate your relatives successful because they do, we are a nominal, you friendly country like turkey and it's currency. let's go to our guests in cairo

. you know, it's interesting, you know, when i, i've been actually to bricks advance, you know, many, many years ago. and i wasn't really kind of sure if it was gonna go anywhere because does it have any idea all a g, a lot of the countries that have contradictions when it comes to how they approach the west there's, it's not uniform whatsoever. but now i see that it really has a, an important role to play because every time the g 7 gets together, i keep thinking to myself, the g seven's voice gets smaller and smaller and smaller. but they still control a lot of the institutions. and that's the problem. go ahead and kyra, and i think this isn't the most menu it's, it could have the ability to, as well as menu of we serve institutions like ion math of the water bag that could have the ability to hold those institutions. and the sort of bill that is now what it said a lot, because they are more on the more the size institution. they are not hoping

a piece of the show has the know, have it from those institution that conditionality imposed by all you may have a world bank is very hard for, for all the economists and in the south. and actually it doesn't give any help to the tool to austin in the south via the we are now suffering from the depth and troubles beds and the legal and the stability and legal stability actually, economically, i think all over the south now looking forward to the future to more problems, more justice and the economic older, and that's the traits interest use of the future and of the product since the product, enough ship and the i'm not talking about imposing is sort of just more of the

developments or economic growth and the to speak to a specific view of the country and every country, but at the same time, we are building very helpful corporation on a much, well respect match. well, eh, benefits and interests. and that's the help of a lot. so that's why many countries in the south, including egypt now looking to appraise and winning, really to be part of that's cool because it is very hard for even a bank of praise and introducing roland assistance. but look, and the different pieces know the functionality of, well i am the better. and importantly, as i pointed out, to not do it in dollars because when you do it in dollars, you become a hostage here, let's go back to as simple as i. one of the interesting things is the ranks thing literature on it is of the world beyond the west. and that was very theoretical even like 10 years ago. now it's becoming

a reality because this is the brakes. the phenomenon is not in a front, it's not an hour or frontal attack on the west, or just say we're gonna go our own way. we're good to go a different way and we, we just don't want to have anything to do with your institutions. we what we can do in a better way and, and probably more transparent way and without the head gemini, that the west is presented, the world to the last 500 years. go ahead and assemble while i think again, as you put that and then we are at the initial stages or multiply to and yet these going to be several stages of multiple out. i'd say, i would think. and at this stage where all the nations of the world, apart from the collective west are concentrating on getting a is getting free it from the west and was dictation and from dental words. and there's going to be an, a lots of pretty outlined. but, you know, at the regional level, some would be the universe of, i'm and a,

these re align months will basically offer lots of opportunities for all the countries i'm at because the free your day off from the west and dictation, the more opportunities they will acquire from various jo, political conditions as well as trading opportunities and what have you and this is what is i thing happening and this is what the connected west is trying to prevent . and that is why the nations across, through, for across the globe are sort, i mean, as you said, 10 years ago, no one would ever predict that to multiply that would be offering so much to so many i've been use for all the states to basically get to, to, to steer clear at better line or policy for themselves to protect data interests from the west. i'm a but now we are having little debt and i think this is going to develop into

something more important with brakes. and what have you indicated on the brakes? i would say that it may be time for members of the brakes to change its name to something proper. you know, because you cannot just, you know, carry on adding one letter. yeah. okay. well today was it will be right. so it just, it will be very difficult to say because we don't have enough bottles in there. no one over the open say exactly are i have to jump in here. i, i just okay, and i'll, i'll have to jump in here. we're not alone. so we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on bricks and the global south state without the

at the end of the 18th century, great britain began to conquer and colonize australia. from the very beginning of the british penetration to the continent, natives were subjected to severe violence and deliberate extra patient. according to modern historians, in the 1st 140 years, there were at least 270 massacres of local b. both any resistance to the british was answered with double cruelty. hundreds of natives were killed for the murder of one saddler. indigenous australians were not considered complete people. no wild beast of the forest was ever hunted down with such unsparing perseverance has they are men, women and children are shot when ever they can be met with squatter, henry, my rake wrote in a letter to his family in england, in $1846.00 plus strategy as bad as these rightly described as blood soaked in

races. if at the beginning of colonization, there were one and a half 1000000 indigenous people living on the continent. then by the beginning of the 20th century, their number had degrees still 100000 people. despite the indisputable historical facts, the problem of old recognition of the crimes of white australians against aborigines has not been resolved so far. i'm hungry this being a member of the european union and nato since 1999 during the 1st post. so good wave of nato's eastwood expansion number to be sales because of this. the me longest sense is there like a month or 2 like i see like that uh by the quench its a so me that me at if so we get back. i saw zap, i did do my i just bought the pre show is that am yeah,

still more than the beach but i see, but i see us play ups by choice, some of which he strongly in the early ninety's hungry was a country with the west view of russia to day started of disagreements left over from the soviet union. and the why, if you know what and you some on yours, i'm going to go to what i see. if you look at somebody in the compare the police report more than those, what i see is great and i did as a, it's a police degree though as much, but the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter roosevelt's remind you. we're discussing bricks and the global self. the okay me before we go to our guest into the side like cut you off because we had to go to a break. what would your, the new name would be?

i didn't hear it. what would you call it? wall on i, i would propose the united 12 because the punches are getting united against less than hedge on you on the one hand and they are united for data, uh, and prosperity. okay, so i think there's like, let's go back to town right now. what you, you said somebody in your 1st answer here, a talking about the sanctions against around. i might surprise you considering the suffering that around this had to go through for the last 40 years. but i actually do not want western sanctions to be dropped against russia. i want a clean cut from those institutions. okay. because they are the only the only time you're actually going to be free. you can be semi free, you have to make a cuts. it can be painful, an era is a very important example to learn from the study from because from what i understand, it's essentially self sufficient. that's something that a lot of countries like when you're self sufficient, you're in a good trading position. go ahead and cut out you know, for

a number of big cases. it will experience a new color on the other side. you know, during the colonial video, it's the british that many channels. but the, have a generator of running or crunched. as i said, you know, there's, i'm, there's some of the countries in the south gain independence, but they've controlled by office, govern government, select the shows governments and you know, all the payments that led by people to look like your audience. but there is the following, or there's from the rest. in the new york colonialism era, the idea was to put the rules and regulations and institutions that to all countries have to follow, no matter who was running the country. so you could have as of allusion and government to meet on that was supposed to follow those rules the same way the charlotte government was supposed to finally go to the good news about the brakes

and get on his smoking to be able to join the brakes. and you don't have to change the name because those are the on i the basically the point would be, have been, you have come to think institutions, you have have a set talk. so, you know, when the difficulty is that you don't have time in the past was that this, let's take stuff at this banking messaging system. swift and, and then now these, the russians are building their own safety systems, the chinese, cuz i think they're on surf system bigs is having, as some of the idea of and you know, the dollars as ation. and that's about talking about for many years, is actually happening, you know, in and restaurant trading and i'm much more aggressive a much, much more broadway than what you have just a few years ago. and so we are seeing ourselves from the new colonialism period.

and that's good news and it said that we are able to survive. how can i say that you understand it? so? yeah, that's good. it's good to kind of all know what's very interesting to me is a new new look at the a foreign policy guru. do you, joseph burrell? i mean, he's kind of an embarrassment for the europeans. every time he opens his mouth, you know about the garden and the jungle. apparently you're in the jungle. okay. apparently i live in the jungle too. and it really is, it really is reflective of a certain mindset. now rules based order and all of this kind of garbage to the west puts out, it's really a cover for a new form of neo colonialism. and i don't even think they're aware of it. it's that it's a habit of mind that they're not even aware of and they can't break free of. and it's taking it's taking the global south, the global majority to tell the west we no longer have to live this way because

we're not afraid of you. and we don't respect you anymore. go ahead and cairo a 1st of all, let me comment on the name. uh, i think the name is it is, is that a valid because breaks it being a also to break a member they can wisdom hit your money and not by looking for this later on, but the member state, but the meaning overpaid itself or praise itself. this is very important to continue with that we are taking the old, the, the american rules of hedge you money over the homework for what do you mention? i think that's your, of, as well as a united states and the don't to say the, so the look to the saw was to africa, to a lot of countries with them. i use the everywhere as just as sold a for band development. the so the, the, from my point of view, the, the, the kid on the, about our development, our prosperity, our,

the don't really willing to help off the wall to us, to, to continue as slaves to buy a way or another, to sell them develop into, to serve their economy a and the security and this is, i think, very dangerous because so now i cannot accept any more. and any country you, that's the global solid needs the government on, on the basis of much one of these big metro benefit when, when situation that's why takes the is very attractive because this is what they are building on calibration. on a win win situation. a was a big hole in the middle of the bundle together, and there is no way that's a global countries or one country wouldn't be developed. and the other was a continue in poverty and in

a very bad situation. and he's up to the bottom to get that and the home or going forward or not would be no development as oh, and i, i think that's a board or, or any are to be in the official the usually, as i mentioned in the, don't say solace they'll just speak to even know to uh, that's um a deal of weight and the m and the, the, the, the, the, you know, that's your at talk to, to a home with a get out from your brain. what after a guy is only at 3 percent, the, the kid above africa, about 100 people about the food crisis in our country. the only care about all these themselves. we don't see either of us unless we impose to be in a spirited. i'm interested to be respected. yeah. was, i'm, you know,

one of the things is that, you know, we, we've talked a lot about the need for development and in bricks is a conduit for that. and it's a, it's a tire approach when, when we've heard that here already on this program here. but you know, the chinese or old ports in schools and hospitals. but if the americans want to send a military base to your country, that's their development. okay. and that is really a very fair juxtaposition, you know, be a to you, either you or sanctioned by the west, are you by arms from the west? that's the, that's what the, how the global south is treated. go ahead and assemble as well. yes. as you put it, uh, quite clearly, you know, they all take an offer shows and also reduce, keep saying that each time that they have a chinese visiting day a country is the, the, the chinese delegation would be behind the separate on the investment projects and, and the construction of schools and buildings and other things to where when the

matter comes and the others go to the same country, they would be lecturing them on democratize ation. and i'm setting you are either with us or you are against us. you know, and, and i mean, all this is starting to come to an end, i think, as you, i think, pointed out that my, uh, getting your presenter is getting our initial remarks. the, this multiplier. it is not going to be based on ideal logical divisions, which is good. so that is all going to be exact appraisal national, the interest of each and every nation is getting to basically know costa data on the interest. and that is at, once you have that done, then it would be more of now, you know, it would start to alter mall corporation if the thing about prosperity, because it is all about your national interest, you know,

and it would also be a short term the much, much more just the international uh, if you like the order. uh, the as opposed to the and the lowes pays internationally. yeah, i mean, it is what we have here. let's go to our guest and turn around to mean, you know, who the rules based order, again, whatever that's supposed to mean, but what it's actually just substitute the un charter and his on his point. and now that countries, solver and countries make national decision is just not really complicated, but the west is very much against that. and i think that the greatest strength of the present form of breaks is that it is completely non ideological. that's in strength. because the west is the ideological um, dominant for us right now. they were, they were, they're run by audiology. the rest of the world is saying, we want pragmatism. go ahead and turn around. if we disagree with you assess this

across the population. understood through that. i don't think it's possible to not have an idea of that, but the ideology of bread is, is going to have a number of components. the 1st component of the big spectrum has been even as an ideology is, is this think of as the edge of one developing this culture of resistance. and it's, it's not necessarily easy, it's going to require work. yeah. moving towards that multi point. i will then during this transition time you're going to have difficulties before it gets any easier. so you need to develop the culture of resistance. and then russia and china and you're on. those countries are saying no to the united states. they are basically pass practicing that are the other 2. i'd give a jump numbers. this is this, this, think of this one hit junk is the 2nd component of that i,

the other g is just spec thing. the other people, you know, as you said, is america is going to equal to the country. they want this in the minutes we base a bunch of big states. there's the, all, this is that suppose entry and the, if you have a government that's not spalding or this under the sun, they want to have it with this home vision check. so that this is the 2nd part of that idea of that. you that you respect the independence of countries solving 2 of these, you know what the united nations charter was supposed to achieve. what so that's sped, cannot what we've run out of time. but i'm glad that we've ended on talking about the united nations charter because that's the big, that's the level playing field for everyone of us the way it should be. as all the time we have on, i think my guess, and it's been both of them and in cairo. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t. see you next time and remember process the

release of russia in states. never as one of the most sense community best ingles, all sense and up the speed . the one else holes. question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin, the machine, the state on the russians to day and split the smooth net keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services. to the question, did you say they requested the

good to buy the yes or share your guys the it is a little nimble there showing that the answer of the thing is the which the most form when you will see your shift, don't cry and skim orange or funny margaret, let's see, what was it? the t e o you follow up with them. so if i do, let's proceed to the

the distressing image. it says, one of indiana's was trained functions in history explains the lives of at least a 120 passengers, at least moving to 800 injured with emergency cruise that still sifting through the wreckage at the same russian civilians as not to its own loss from the belgrade wage and bode as the 2 planning attacks against residential areas intensify, we hear from some of the eye witness was lying in

a bed. i couldn't sleep. and my dad was told it up or.