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the the, i'm out sooner than saying welcome back to going underground, broadcasting go around the world for do by in the you a while, while some consider rusher in china is winning this phase of world war 3. it was all, give me the watch. wendell was world war one that comes to mind this week make us soldiers have been involved in violence just a few 100 miles from sarajevo. now, nato is to add hundreds of soldiers to its thousands in cause of a lot even recognized as a country by the u. n. o bricks, countries, it was arguably illegally under the u. n. jobs are recognized by nature of ours before the destruction of europe. certainly, constitutionally, socialist states, you can solve your joining me now from new york city is on following the president of the un general assembly, as well as one of the foreign minister sub you will, could you ever mention out president of the people's posse in serbia and the center for international relations and sustainable development. thank you so much work for

coming on the situation moving very fast as i understand it in the northern cause of it. before we even get to the context, i better as what, what is being in recent weeks, the scale of the violence by nature, back to albania, melisha is i suppose, in northern cause of a as well as thank you 1st and for most, for having me on the show it's a, it's a privilege to be here and have this conversation. essentially what has been happening in the last few weeks in kosovo is that the, europe's most oppressed ethnic group is actually uh, brother competition. and i know i think a lot of competition for that. yeah. well i well enough part of the world for sure . and i'm talking about comfortable shirts. comfortable shirts, who are basically the most endangered ethnic group in the region. well, of the balkans, if you well, so they are rising against

a complete deprivation of deer, basic human rights. and what happened was that the nato troops were called in to a, to come down to push them away from to places where they were protesting and become pretty well a certain point. why and how of a oppressed, and of course some people are asking, why did they reject the different, i mean we, we have to sort of get onto what cause of it actually is given obviously as you from the you a but of course the global south has very different ideas as to what cost of oh is it was a suddenly became a country in the ninety's, but isn't the country to the un. albin kazi, gold elections? why did they boy quote, the elections of this are pressed? why didn't they vote for someone they wanted?

hey, look, i, i really was do think i really do think we need to take a few steps back into. i'm to basically say that the customer is not the state. it is unfortunately recognized as an independent country by a number of par for western capitals. i'd say, but the vast majority of the world population and member states of the united nations as well. i do not recognize go. so the way the state struby and does not recognize close order state for us uh, code is, will rush or anytime situational. tara just noticed the rush or the, or the china, like 3 quarters of africa, 4 fifths of latin america. vast majority of asian countries do not recognize the card to interrupt in, but then who is this? albin, courtesy, person who says it is a completely independent state as uh,

as an extremist politician uh, albanian ethnic politician so extreme that even the biggest sponsors of constables, independence, and the supporters of causal independence, led by the united states of america, are having issues with him and don't know how to deal with him. he is currently leading the so called government of coastal, he's the so called prime minister of kosovo. but uh, a guy who has in the past year and a half shown very, very openly and blatantly that he wouldn't have any of the sort of being demands reasonable demands balance demands met uh no matter what the cost is, even if you lose the support of the united states, he wants to see customer without shirts. he wants to see greater of being near

being created by means of putting together, unite, uniting, albania, and the so called costs of the integrator, albania. and as a result, as she is mindless decision a few days ago to send a police cost of a police force to uh, entered the buildings of the municipal authorities and been north of the cost of a we are having these problems that we can investigate because he says he can put in install albanians in that area or is a veteran on municipality, even though 3.4 percent of the vote they got i'll give you that is because the a, as subs there, boy go to the vote though, of course. so this is all happening, but salting, bug sends it, i mean and wouldn't have done so without washington's approval. no matter what way . hearing about the us and basset jeffery. of any a saying, hey, uh,

how being good. see, uh, go to overstep them all. look here against, uh, so be i should say weekly leaks is exposed. uh, i'll been courtesy as a person who was involved in activities that worried the state department years ago with the leaks the persecutes in a company. that, of course, revealed lots of the american policy. how, how do you think good. the discussions went on in brussels, that just oldenburg presumably took a phone call from blinking while blinking public. he says, steady on, they send in what does the 700 troops mostly with young, italian man on gary and men into kosovo, to hit ethically. so people there on the board. well uh my opinion is that the western leaders in paragraphs like including those that you mentioned, they really don't know how to handle

a critique right now. they, they made this frankenstein, they helped him become the so called prime minister of the so called possible government. and now he is behaving really as if he is a leader of the independent state and is not, is no longer listening as to the former public masters if you will. so they are becoming a little bit nervous. but essentially what you have in comfortable because you were mentioning these elections that were a boy cottage and the o. b and may or is in the northern municipalities. they claim their mandate based on the 3 percent of the folks that they've gotten, so and so forth. essentially what you have in kosovo is a combination of apartheid and palestine. for

practical purposes, you have basically shirts for living gatos serbs who are deprived of their most basic human rights. certainly in churches that are in a very, very difficult situation, even when the so called comfortable court makes a certain decision. when it comes to say the property of serbs or it should be in churches, these decisions and the court are simply not implemented just because the beneficiaries are serves or through the in church. so basically they have no basic human rights. it's a, it's an outrages situation for europe of the 21st century. and now on top of all that you have an extremist albanian custom also called prime minister, who simply wants to push them out altogether to have comfortable with that service

. and that is a little too hard to digest, even for the staunchest supporters, of course, of all independence, including the west and leaders in direct rest. if you have just much, obviously denied being an extreme missing from the phase of proud the costs of him and his sponsors, the european union, and the united states and britain would say, that's just not where you are aware of the kind of propaganda. arguably the sub propaganda that since the 1990s has painted this, it'll be in community in europe as as genocide also might say, you might want to tell me of what you, what do you think about the propaganda? un security council resolution one to full. i mean, come on, sorry sir, for it to read for just interesting you be good because what comes to mind to my mind when you were mentioning this, as i don't know if you check what happened earlier this week in paris window like jokers which is playing as is a big tennis champion, and at the end of the the match, you know that the tennis players,

they approach the camera, they say a few words and the camera, and they also write a few words on the camera. so what the hell of joe can make sure? no, it was cost of always the hardest to review. please bring peace and now he is attacked. these are the days away. the media and neither nation media, you know, because he was calling should be like, i mean, that's the level of propaganda that we are talking about when it comes to when it comes to the cost of though unfortunately, serves have been to trade for the past 3 years as that, so a negative actor after to be blamed for every single thing. of course, there is a part of the plane, one of the serbian side for things,

for certain things and how you wish to be an organization already took the position to read it, but i'm, so i go to ask you and i have to say as regards the quarter a piece in your book, you know, what, look what happened to china when it wants to go for peace of mind. say you end security council resolution 1244. and you know, who can answer these questions about the you and better than f on the president. all of the un general assembly permits via this is presumably why they agreed to it because it goes some people in the global south to wonder how on a smell great ever agreed to the kind of terms of a politician that happened. but we don't wanna go that a lot of history that it permits, it'd be just, and 1000 people to protect some sub civilians from arguable nature aggression. would you say that every church in belgrade should be sending? i mean, he says he's been sending the troops to the border. should he be sending the 1000 people into the area called costs of

o to protect the men women and children of this up community the the situation slightly more complex. uh, because if you read the fine print uh, the small print, if you will, up to 1244 resolution, it actually defines the conditions under which, uh, those troops can be sent into costs of roll and note with the, the agreement with the needle with k for mandate. so it is not possible to just like, uh, send in the troops the new address. it is a bit without consultation or new, like all of us. and then is there a nuances to it's julia of course, but like this would not be the 1st violation resolution $1244.00. because the, the cost of those declaration of independence itself and the recognition of the cost of all by a number of western powers. where blinking violation of the resolution, 1244. so what you're referring to would not be the 1st violation of the resolution

. $1244.00, but doubts that president voltage is going to do that. and the reason why i doubt it is that i don't have him give a higher opinion of his freedom to act right now. and he's readiness to pack solely in the interest of distributed people uncomfortable. okay? are image, i'll stop you. the more from the form is that being foreign minister and president of the un general assembly after this break

the the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the president of you in general, assembly book, you haven't mich. well, international courts of course, have justified the natural recognition as you say, to some in violation of un security council resolution one to full full of costs of over the country in the 1st place. of course, many in the global south. most of the world, as you know, is going to be looking at this situation. where in this region with the

assassination allows you friendswood and a good, a 109 years ago, i think this week they're going to be going. this is because alexander village and a proportion of serbia, the majority some would say, do not agree with nature policy on ukraine. and that the southern announcements by blinking pointy geoffrey, of any of us about to, to cause of a saying no pipe down is they con, have a 2nd front against russia because they see so be as not properly aligned to the cause of the delay. and joseph burrell and, and the god and against the jungle. a big data of the court, the decision that you're 3 to uh, when carefully read uh, truly, uh, supports the serbian argument that the cost of a cannot become a state. uh, you know, actually,

because it says in the decision of the court from 2010 that the state must be determined by the security council. so based on the courts, you cross of law has never been recognized by a significant number of countries. after that, the court's ruling, i don't have a job, i have that right now with them since you are a former president and gunner and assembly, did you ever have coffee in the car doors of the un building in new york about this subject? did people go from britain to the united states in front say, you know, you're talking nonsense. i mean you, you nearly became secretary general. of course. maybe that was why you didn't becomes i was genuinely gutierrez', but yeah, i was, uh, i made it to the final though. and then i uh, what do you think is this view and comfortable this view and costs of other stuff to be coming. secretary general of the united nations,

it probably had to do with my stronger using castillo, which i never shied away from, from saying, um, but uh, the fast majority of world countries. they see this uh at face value. uh, what was done in 2008, with the unilateral declaration of independence of cost of oh. and then subsequent recognition by the united states of america, united kingdom and a number of other western allies was, uh, was addressed as into the epic proportions. it was the very, very 1st time that somebody tried to create the state in the aftermath of the 2nd world war using those, you know, actual means against the role of the security council against the will of the majority of the world nations. so what do you realize? how many, many years down the road is that comfortable cannot actually become

a state we got through the accepting it. so the only way for costs of to become an independent state proper to become a member of the national community is if serbia actually accepts this. and that was a, that's the reason why the pressure is sort of yet uh are, are so big because they realize they can't, there's no other way. an alternative way would be to, you know, go to the security council and, you know, again, how you really, i exactly with them. then you have to permanent members of the security council. that is russia and china did have said time. and again, we are going to vote okay, well, yeah, if it's about, so it'll be and then what pressure can nato, we are to be in union put to destabilize? it'd be, what can they do to bel grades? i know is your opponent,

but the village has managed to balance things better than i don't know whether you envy that position, whether you think you could have done better. but it's quite a position to hold in belgrade to uh, try and look forward to a multiple, a weld at the same time as anyone who looks towards the multi bullet world is arguably considered a proxy of beijing. and then moscow right now. well, i actually think i quite differently, i think that which is west best and only hope to deliver not just the independence of causal, but also membership with serbia in the nato in the future as well as the resolution. he would deny that, you know, you would just die that in the strongest terms, he would deny that. i mean, would you ever say this about the north stream pipeline no politician in the world's, the, in the world is ignorant of who committed sabotaged in the baltic. but we will pretend to be imbeciles and keep silent, so as not to harm the interests of our country. is it because he is everywhere,

even if this happens to the bulk and the stream, the tuck stream, we would somehow survive because it goes to being report recently of perhaps the attempted sabotage of texturing pipelines. and that's not really going to into your himself, to of, on the land and stone, but again, blinking by them. is it? yes, but the that's village. embrace on north street. yes. but they don't. yes. but they do embrace and need to embrace him most wherever they're working together very, very closely with him. he seems to be there, garlic and 30th. and the reason is that uh the deal between the serbian government, led by mortgage into west is the following. you can basically go and say whatever you like, but we want you to deliver. we want you to do where we tell you the sanctions on so

has about the size so so basically uh on the one hand uh he has agreed to the completely outrageous term of the uh, agreement between serbia and costs of oh, that would actually make sure that it costs a little bit comes in independent states and i am referring to process an alternate agreements done under the stewardship of the european special representative um, actually one part of this agreement that the voltage can agree to is that certainly? yeah, well, not unblock across the hall from joining international organizations. you remember a minute ago we were talking about how close of all can become mistake. well, only for a security council and the security council, you're from russia and china, who are saying we're going to do what serve you ask us to do it. well mister voltage just agreed to like, not blocking the cost of an international organization. so for as long as you

commit to things like that, you are okay to say in your media, whatever you like, okay, well anyway, i guess you had deal with the midway. having, you know, may have said that they obviously the, even if a future president of the, at so it'd be a said that i don't think this ethnic insurance they would allow, it will generally how do you think the ukraine conflict, what it means for the sub young people, i know i'm speaking to you from the you a to big donor, just beyond the levels i may say of a few dry m f level. um, would you certainly say that they should be not using the i m f money for development, and so it'd be they should be using either you a investment or breaks bank investment safe or bad? or? i don't think that the ways are big dorner. it certainly present the financially present economically. i don't think that there are huge donations these days coming

into sort of don't donation because the in the past months. yes, of course that's close, but that's quite different. you know, and their loans and loans in loans, their terms insurance and turn the wheel. no, biomass loans and what have problems and countries. yeah, well it's a, it's a long story when it comes to economics. but when it comes to this war and ukraine, which is what you ask um, i think that the public opinion in serbia is distinctly different from public opinions and most other european countries. but what is it? because there was an antique, there was a big demonstration against the government. and then we saw the pictures, which would not obviously shown on european union that i'll give a controlled media of a massive support of the. so it'd be in position. you would say some would say pro vision share position in, so it'd be a demonstration of the kind of unity is. is there a great unity,

or is it demographically, a split fee between a pro you and you live in a? well, we currently know we currently have big demonstrations, new serbia, against the governments of alexander virginia. but it has nothing to do with the foreign policy, serbia. so i'm one of those demonstrators. my party is one of the main organizers of these relatives. and when it comes to for a policy, i'm very, very strongly my party is very, very strongly against capitalism, dependents. my party is very, very strongly against imposing sanctions on anybody in the well given that experience to serve you under sanction. but the unity voice was it was dramatic time for unity when the strain and stress on bell grade has never given me being as harsh since since the bombing of bell, great flowing of the chinese and the i think it's over dramatic. it's is not true that the pressure in belgrade has never been higher. i was for

a ministry at the time. one pressure is where a far more higher, far more strong. and from the cost of those, you know, actual declaration of independence. those days you had the american secretary of state uh, shipping costs of oh, and the independence of coastal as number one priority on her schedule. right now the secretary of state of the united states has quite a number of minor things to deal with. so i think that that when you hear from the leaders of the serbian government, starting with mr. voltage at pos for unit 8, and i think it some minutes relation. i think it's, uh, it's a terrible manipulation. what we need right now uh is, uh, is, is a change that would bring about the government in serbia. that is not a problem for uh, for in black mail for him,

for him blackmail or being pressure rising to things that are against national interest. well, i suppose the main question then is to a former foreign minister from that country, but also to have a president the un general assembly is which way. so it'd be a would have voted s $11.00 for the invoice, representing most of humanity, voted not with the americans to condemn russia if so what was happening in ukraine? would you have voted with the, with the americans? so just for the record, because we were debating mr. mortgages. foreign policy. uh, outlook. uh sure, getting loaded with the united states of america on that particular resolution. but the way that the people of the sort of you see this more in ukraine is essentially something very similar to what happened to us in the 9099, just because in 9099 there was

a foreign military intervention. uh there was done without the agreement of the security council. so natal basically bombed sarabia for about $76.00 days. and the result of this special military operation of nato. if you really made a 99, i was serious infringement of the territorial integrity of a you and the member state surgeon. so what's happening right now when you agree? uh, we see something very similar and, and therefore it, it kinda creates outraging sarabia. when we hear in the western media, oh, what is happening in ukraine is the 1st time since the end of the 2nd one ward in the country is attacked and that the borders are attempted to be forcefully changed. well,

it happened to us and we lived with this to this very day and, and, and therefore, therefore, therefore, therefore, the public opinion is kind of different. instead of being from a public opinion is that under your countries, okay, are much. thank you. thank you very much. and that's it for the show will be back on monday with dr. harry and fraud host and the bulk of capitalism. and so on the day the u. s. is scheduled to run out of money without raising the debt limits until then you can keep in touch with my social media if it's not sensitive in your country and had to our channel going on. the run tv on rumbled up. com to watch new and old episodes of going underground to you monday the the, the western expectation was that pressure will be disassembled, lies by extreme sanctions. and the military losses. uh,

there was a, an expectation that the pressure wouldn't be able to continue the war flight longer than a for a period of time longer than probably couple of months to the energy crisis is dealing a devastating blow to e. u industry. the, the number of for testers is rich media. the day objects to the authorities,