so that'll specialize in specific things that will be used by it. definitely, and uh, and in war. yeah, general dynamics certainly comes to mind with their wildly human like robots. they're playing a big role in the future of warfare, aren't they? and so generally remix is one of the companies that's yes, of course, operating in, in, in this industry. and, you know, their technology is not just, there's, they're looking at the broader world, they're looking at other checks that's out there. i mean, when you look at robotics it's, it's not necessary now that future robots that are in a battle field look like humans. it's not necessary for them to be that right because they're essentially a killing machine. but when it comes to maybe uh, you know, being more channels, flies looking like a human or, or what have you there. yes. you know, you could have someone looking like a robots out there right now. robotics is a very interesting place at

a very exciting phase, generally in the world. and of course, data and war is one of the applications. but humanoid looking robots have been becoming popular. you know, we started with that. there was a robot called us of the a few years ago that the world was fascinated. the type of 5 years ago i flew very fascinated with associates a robot. but now you have other things such as boston. they met the damage that was bought by google. you have a media very human looking robot, and others that are now going to be that are now going to inspire new generation of robots that move like humans that can do. it seems like humans take up objects of data, need bombs and what have you so, so there's a lot happening within robotics and it's not just the war. it's not just going out in the battlefield. but just all of those things associated with a situation like a war where maybe you need to rescue people where you need to go on

a recon mission where you need to maybe have a disaster that's happened in turkey as, as the earthquake and so on. so are bodies generally is changing fast, and i think we're headed in for an exciting, an interesting time when it comes to utilizing technology. gina, the upper upper hand technology companies are going to play a big part in, in all of this. coming up next, p t s d has affected thousands of soldiers who saw combat 1st hands. but now even soldiers who never set foot on the battlefield, say they're suffering. find out how next we'll discuss it with in con when we return to type the m. o will be right back the, the, the,

with the discovery of the new world, at the end of the 15th century, there appeared atlantics laved re. the slave traders from european countries started building fords on the western coast of the african continent to transport the african inhabitants to america to be forced into hard labor. until the middle of the 17th century. portugal had played the main role in this atrocious business. in great britain, france and the netherlands took the leadership for this fan of 400 years of legal and illegal slave trade. about 17000000 people were forcefully shipped across the atlantic. not including those who died on the way due to unbearable living

conditions. modern historians estimate that for each slave ship to america, there were 5 who died while captured during transportation, and cruel obliteration of rebellion. this roof was the whole tre practice by the leading european countries. took away tens of millions of african lines. the organization of united nations class advised the trends atlantics laved rate, as one of the greatest human rights abuses in the history of humanity. this is the biggest act of deportation of people ever seen by mankind. what happened in libya and in human specifically told at least a segment of seeing people that this is not going to lead to any, any weird because we can see that there was going to be on our in both places. some

of these things, but please some syrians to stand by their state and keep it a field. the welcome back to the m o i manila chant. so there's a new kind of p t s d taking shape from soldiers who have virtual blood on their hands. well, more technology on the battlefield, absolved them of this trauma or just make the cost of war that much greater a futurist and tech expert in con is still with us. so in, because a i and economist systems are so expensive and hard to develop. only west. well, the western countries primarily include in the us, um, or we can say china,

the u a e, the saudis, and so forth. i mean, they all have them. but does that necessarily mean conventional warfare is over, or is there a possibility that human fighters revel group soldiers? can they fight back against what some might describe as a tech tyranny by the rich? so technology is primarily being developed in the rest and we're talking about the developed countries and merrick, uh, china, a big, big, big creator and, and uh, these for research for emerging tech off france, germany, u. k. a name it the, the advanced company of countries are, have, have the resources, they have the institutions, they have the infrastructure to go about and do research. and it's not just creating happens and having factories that, that, that can be weaponry. but it's really about access to technology licensing that

technology. oh, naturally many companies and providers within, within the security industry are based out of these countries because of ease of manufacturing and so on like tank manufacturers or a fighter jet manufacturers. they're very selective places where these, these things are being produced. and so we have to look at that, the infrastructure piece of it, when it comes to other countries that purchase arms that purchase safety, st. george, the equipment that's used in battle that's used to protect their countries, from threats and so on. everybody's a buyer, everybody who has how the economy from india to us, singapore, to, uh, you know, finland, uh everybody who's there who wants to have the edge there for touring. that's and read their procuring all kinds of happens. and so it really depends on what's a, what's your plan, what kind of an active war state are you in right now and how much of

a priority for your nation is spending on war? for example, america spend trillions of dollars in the past couple of decades when it comes to war. and they have invested heavily into, you know, for turing new new rep in be and so on. when it comes to the middle east, everybody's a buyer. when it comes to asia, everybody's a lot buyer. china is of course a producer and a very big producer consumer, a buyer of orange in general. so you know what? it's, it's all over the place. it's everywhere in the world despise buyers, everywhere. there's a few sellers off of the technology, and those are primarily in the best we throw around the term killer robots pretty loosely. but when we're talking about the future of warfare, it has to include intelligence collection data and so forth. so we're not only talking about, you know, terminator to movie characters. we're talking about spyware, eyes in the sky, listening technology. what is that realm of?

tak, look like these days. how are these tech companies collecting intelligence? that's then being shared with agencies like the pencil gone, the sienna, yay or, and my 6 also big question, who's collecting what information? uh, we really can't tell you really can't tell because that's literally hidden behind the walls of and so many layers of, of, of, of, you know, the unknown. what we can tell is that the world today is powered by data as it has never been before, right. data plays a crucial role in everything that we do from, you know, watching out of your house and driving to your work and working and doing and being contract unit as a site, a to buying a house, travelling in anything. and everything is dictated by data in the, in recent years we've heard about big data and, and a bunch of those terms that are used in social media. but, but that's another part of a type of data that's emerging. now i mentioned the smart tvs and cognitive cities

already here, and that's where a lot more data and information is being generated on a daily basis. for example, if you take a flight from new york to london, that's like that aircraft a generates about 10 gigabytes of data in that slight approximately. and that data is then used to analyze like patterns and efficiency and so on. so even our aircraft a generating so much data these days of utilizing data of any kind to do something specific is not new. and when it comes to, you know, a war and espionage and listening technology has generally improved and scaled a lot. uh, you know, not talking about hardware, but talking about the software side of things. you can now have analysis of audio or video or you can enhance it like never before. and what is also happening is that, um, you know, generating the height of where were deep, 6 are now emerging,

where you can seek being a person seek, being, uh, you know, sounding like a specific person. that does want to play a crucial role in espionage and, and in misinformation and this information in the future. and so, oh, there's so many layers of it and so many different ways you can analyze it. but uh, things are becoming creepy and tricky. at the same time when it comes to the usage of information. um, you know, i reminds me off of the tv series black mirror that had a few seasons added air to few years ago. it's, it's intriguing how information is being used would be used potentially in the future. so show, based on future scenarios off of the what the world could be. and so i'd highly recommend your viewers watching it. oh yeah we, we know that home products like amazon's alexa can listen in on your home conversations. anyone with nefarious goals can tap into innocent products and,

and use that for an ethical purposes. which leads to my next question actually in terms of the ethics of a ton of his weapons. what does that really mean or what does it look like to someone in your field? is it, is it even possible to program technology, to say, recognize the difference between an enemy combatant versus a civilian who perhaps as such a similar description and how they look. i mean, how do you prevent that guy from being killed instead of this guy over here? so when we talk about ethical e, i it's, it's a field that's very under developed right now. there's a huge amount of bias, a with an e i n a i systems, irrespective of all the work that's being incredible work that's being done to develop the i, uh, we still are not able to, uh, count a i r e i itself is not able to go out there and,

and figure out the good from the bad. see a artificial intelligence systems work on training data. they work on a lot of information that is fed into a system of the systems program to algorithms, to learn different things that are happening to them, that data and make relationships between the data and to decide based on the algorithm and action it and outcomes. when it comes to ethically, i, how you program that data and what data you provide and how you design the algorithm is where bias comes in. and when it comes to war, if you are programming ai systems that will be used, an economist event going to be and, and machines. it's very difficult to not have bias in there and, and, and the computers they're there, they don't have feelings. they don't have any of that. they don't have a conscious, it's very difficult to create ethics in, in a i, in the definitely, and then send that out to war. i mean, right now it's honestly impossible to be able to determine, you know, you know,

if it's a friendly or if it's a threat, because we're just not there in movies and hollywood blockbusters, everything goes great. and there's all kinds of technology doing it. but know this is a big gray area. this is a very scary thought that the technology will be, as it goes, we've had examples off of the ongoing road in the, in, in many cases. and all the information is out there in the public domain where multiple people, hundreds and thousands of people have been killed because of the wrong strikes. i and people and women, and children and innocent people have been killed of thousands and thousands or the last 20 years off of warfare if you look at it so. so my take is no, it's there's, there's none of ethics going in there right now. it's a field that's very severely under, under develop and know it's a great area for,

for the next many years. all right, here's a philosophical one for you. in the past, in the early 2, thousands, we'll call it drone warfare was basically being introduced by the g w bush era. and it's uses only expanded ever since then massively, under brock obama. and then we saw a number of draws operators coming forward with stories of a new kind of p t s b. so to prevent this, the advancement of smart drones have really come a long way in just the last 10 years. but ultimately, it is still programmed and traced back to a human right. so can be human creators, those who punch in the coordinates, etc, ever truly be absolved in the feeling like they took part in killing. i think anyone was involved in war has to really make that choice. anybody who's involved in, i don't know, projecting their,

their country from that has to really be fully invested and know what it entails when it comes to a drone operators or remain a remote economist or economist, equipment operators. i think that that human element is always there when it comes to of killing people. and you know, in a more or in a battle, be able to destroy cities and destroy villages and so on. and you're, you're an operator of equipment. then you're part of it, right? you can't ignore the fact that your participation on, on many levels to what is happening on the ground. so i don't think human skin to the absolve themselves from saying that or doing or, or saying i have nothing to do with this. this is the machine that did it. no, it's not. you know, uh everybody who's part of that process is involved. and so we have to acknowledge that, and you mentioned to us the sports, there's a, there's a severe negative side to it. we're seeing uh, you know, oh,

soldiers who've gone into battle or has been part of that, their stories and merge. there's movies being made on that, and many of those things are emerging. it has a negative, it has a huge negative side on the people were operating this machinery. and while they might do it during war and during battle, and during the times there need it. but it definitely has been shown to have a huge impact, and we can go back 25 years, look at all the wars that have been off slots from the gulf war to those. and again, it's 9 in iraq and so on. and those stories off of oh are, are out there all right, futurist and emerging tech expert, ian con. thank you so much for that insight today. and as we can see in a perfect world, future wars wouldn't be bloodless for both soldiers and civilians. a like, they'd be exacting, able to only get the bad guys, but we don't live in

a perfect world. and technology just isn't there yet. for now, the advancement in warfare tech only seems to be expanding the amount of blood that is shed for people on the receiving end of a wealthy nations technological advances. that is going to do it for this week's episode. modus operandi the show that dig deep into foreign policy. i'm your host manila. chad, thanks for tuning in. we'll see you again next time to figure out the m. o. the

acceptance. and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else to give it please or do have the state department, the c i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do, don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching. but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you the

i really thought that we were going to die. and i crawled all the way to the right. and then i hid behind the board and business people continue to stick with the system. basically we want to make sure that certain too dangerous for regular civilians should be in the hands of those people who are unsafe. that's for sake know where the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to was a part. there is an old cliche that more is a continuation of politics by other means, but apparently sold each piece with serious recent re admission into the era plague, some of its former adversaries. now looking into potentially rebuilding the country, they helped to destroy something profound, must have shift to in the middle east. what is it? well, to discuss it, i'm now joined by a model because founder and director of know says a think tank focusing on the middle is mr. broadcast, it's great to talk to you again. thank you very much for your time and thank you

for having me. thank you very much. now the last time i interviewed you was in 2013 . when this year in the world was still in its varying tends to stages. the country had already been kicked out of the arab league, and anyone recognizing the rise of the syrian state to defend itself or defended citizens was considered a butcher, at least in the western narrative. i just wonder how does it feel at to, to see it come full circle now? i think we, we'll predict well, some of us at least, uh, predicted that this was going to be the case. eventually, i don't think anyone in the wildest dreams of the different take a so long, and it's always about screwing you from the very beginning that there were enough syrians who did not willing to do an evolution or so some risk and endangered it,

and therefore stood by the government and because there were enough of them, you know, they couldn't be defeated, the tides couldn't be turned. so eventually we knew this was going to happen. last, it came to a huge cost and a lot of storms for syrians. i don't know, in a sense uh, could if this could this have come a little bit earlier perhaps, but again, you know, the syrian issue isn't really tied on with syria or even the regional the, you know, c a term but, but it's actually a more, you know, worldwide sort of problem. i do want to ask you about the psychological effect of these campaign on the syrian society, reducing the relationship between people and power of people and change their relationship to change and the means to attain it has changed in any way. okay, so, so let me tell you, it is a story that the very 1st few days off. again,

thank you for the so called revolution. i could argue it's our resolution by some parts of the syrian people. this is very important to understand. this is not evolution of the syrian people against a dictatorship or no thought of teddy innovation. this is far more that a group of syrian people, the resolution of the method, soft off. whether you view that as positive or negative, wanted to change things. and the other part of the syrian people, so a problem with that and, and, you know, they, they felt that they need to stop that and, and counter that. an example the 1st, the 1st few days, one of the 1st list of demands that we heard was from a shake in the coastal area of bonnie as well, of course. so city of fanny as the 1st line of demand of the demand list was to separate boys and girls in schools. there are so many reasons why so many syrians

wouldn't approve to such agenda. and the problem was at the very beginning is that we knew that that this kind of rhetoric would attract a lot of problems from the jihad. these even from certain countries in the region who are in themselves, very democratic. so we, i think the syria people split from the very beginning on this. i was just a little bit strong by your phrase of revolutionary means. because i mean, it sounds, it may sound very romantic to western audience. it doesn't sound romantic to me because i'm, you know, as somebody who was born in the country that had several revolutions and they usually turn out to be very bloody. i mean, it's not just the, you know, about the, to give are a songs. it's about the understanding of social dynamics and the complexity, all 5 core existence of the, you know, diverse interest, diverse mentality. so, you know, it's a, it's a very complicated subject. and uh, what angers me a lot is how sort of um,

popularized it has become people who watch television for some reason. believe that they, they can be an expert on freedom revolution and social change. and i think the ones will pay the price for the several months us, for this romantic attitude to revolution. odyssey, when people live in people and to some extent that you nation people and the yeah, many people and the egyptian people on the list goes on and on. but that, unfortunately, those who push should never, you know, come face to face with it, with the consequences of that the rebels it's, it's actually a rebellion. it's not a revolution because, you know, it's not all the syrian people, but they thought of it as a revolution. they believed, etc. but even they still use that rhetoric. they believe that this was a revolution. and when they inc counter defend point of view, they don't believe that it exists. if they think this is either a government collaborate or, or a traitor, it's either this or that they sold by,

by believing that they are more numerous to you. they could bring more support from more countries. i mean in 2012, they were like 130 countries to and gather are met in more uncle to support the cause. they sold that they could overwhelm the other side, but this was not the, you know, it was more of a civil war from the very beginning. not down the lines of like she, i did send me that or catholic this post and that it was more objective, more people on the side that was reluctant or pretty much against this sort of action. i did so because of some sort of objective reasons rather than subjective reasons, we didn't approve of the program. we didn't approve of how it was going to be implemented, who were supporting it and so on and so forth. so far. so it was all that now going back you original question with the syrian people want to change more is their appetite more appetite,

actually not the case because now syrians are more reluctant to do anything, you know, if, if anybody space of any sort of change, then he's going to be shut down by lots of people because we already know what the, that would might mean and what, you know, intentions either from regional or international powers. that could, it could hide. so, you know, that happened. but the, you know, it's, you know, you, we also need to have a broader, conversational on what changed to democracy and really ease because, i mean, there's a tendency, especially in the western discourse to, you know, assign larger than life significance to any political leader in this case but charlotte side, but there are numerous anonymous syrians in millions of them for you know, cab disclose running and hospitals running for big brad who cleaned the streets, who you know, stood by that country in very humble, but also very, very profound ways. and it takes courage,

it takes them and i takes result. and to me, at least that's what genuine involve democracy and patriotism not is all about, isn't it the same for you? yes it is. and again, going back to the very 1st few days, those who received for it from the actions that when you know, taken. yeah. and, and the streets from the problems that was the starting and all that stuff. that only line of defense was to keep the government going to keep the state on its feet . they gave their children to the army, the very stubborn. and he tried to stay in the country and not flee. you know of duck. we're talking doctors, nurses were talking teacher talking to engineer talking everybody their line of defense to keep the cedar. yes, they want was to keep the government and the state on their feet because that's their best chance of survival. had those people capitulated from the very beginning

from the very beginning, i. e. so come to us, right? or probably for, you know, what, we're not gonna go through this. let's just accept whatever changes being made and we are going to deal with it and find a way through a be accepted and gone through that route down that route. that probably we've, we would have seen a different scene in syria now. yes, but the cost, i don't think that becoming a 2nd degree citizen was an option for many of them. and i think they perhaps also had the, well some inkling of knowledge at that time because this syrian uprising was happening on the hills of the destruction of state structures in, in libya, and the very public murder of a more mark adolphe and i think there was of why the expectation on the part of this year and the address there is that a similar kind of scenario could be repeated in, in, in syria. what do you think preventive that from happening?