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tv   News  RT  June 7, 2023 6:00am-6:27am EDT

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the, the, the day and the k m. everyone's a creative watching pretty started. everybody watching your people up there with you, everybody, sweetie. i know by just trying to share with you. our lead is on there as and i think i need some services to tell me why they frame what the 5 chairs changed on the focus that jumping on the status. that color like a eric everybody's column with people loving sides more than kids and they say the reason is to protect the freedom, but we don't believe them the
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cause they already see here because they kept the store for ideas and then use email futures. great. if and then to the roles, the nazi theory of racial superiority finished style for years of creating an ssl all the place and 14 concentration camps. so the full prisoner of war labor comes 10 prisons. a well, you know, think she's going to be in your venue. so i'm assuming you need even the, the chest, the leading enrollment. i couldn't lift, instant messaging, people's gonna send me an approximately 25000 people. went through the kind of goes
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through these camps according to official figures. these move stuff, dudley level, if the ship did utility and i give you an idea, i'm not sure it's just the slightest of silver youngest that, i mean. yeah. what the famine disease forced labor to which you have by the word is formulas. what was the last thing it also need you to do was to take that to you, that there is a trouble of human off with those who put in his name, push these things up a give him what feel a 230 because he doesn't do those thousands of test, a massive crimes and the impunity of criminals. so when you look on here, you know, wanted to do to speed on the, on the did i tell you what the good i see you don't really stuff on me. they decided to do just got to do, please don't. you can just you because i was being your thought was put in the word along the
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hundreds of thousands of employees have come and gone from the likes of the c. i a, in the state department, most of them were never relevant. even fewer have remained relevant after leaving government employment. our next guest has remained relevant. that hasn't been without controversy. he is not one to tell the washington swells what they want to hear, but he's earned a place in the mix of voices commenting on contemporary intelligence and foreign policy issues for more than the past 2 decades. i'm john kerry, onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 larry johnson is not the typical c i. officer. after spending 4 years at c, i a headquarters working in analysis, he transferred to the state department where he became a deputy director in the office of the counterterrorism coordinator. he later left
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government service to found a successful consulting firm. he's also known for a daily blog and which he offers insights, sometimes biting and controversial insights into current events. and that is what makes larry johnson interesting and keeps him relevant. he's not afraid to criticize some of the most powerful people in washington. he's not afraid to be wrong. johnson has made some bad calls in the past, but he keeps pushing and he keeps writing, and he keeps himself relevant in the dog eat dog world. that is washington dc. larry johnson, welcome to the show. we're happy to have you. thanks, john. tell us a little bit about your career. you started off at the c, i a 1st going through operational and paramilitary training and then moving into analysis. you were there for a relatively short period of time. 4 years before moving over to the state department. what exactly did you do with the c i a and why did you make the move to the state department? a mac. oh, i was not
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a happy camper i. i really did enjoy my time the 1st year in the career. sure. any problems, a lot of fun. we got to see all aspects of the agency and i was fortunate that i got to work on the ascii on task force. this is during the height of, for us support for the scan, rumbles against the soviets. then i got to work on the central american task force . i was in transition for backwards. i started my on elliptical career as the 100 animals, which at the time was one of the top 5 board policy issues for the regular administration . which meant that i was originally writing for the p b, the national intelligence daily. well, it was, it was, i didn't discover that there are a lot of animals out at c, i a who go through 3 or 4 years and the career without ever writing for the presidential daily. brief. by contrast, i was writing probably 2 article. so we started this uh, that was sort of interesting. well, by transitions of state where it came because of the been terrible management at c,
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i is the best way to put it. i had a new branch, cheap, married mccarthy. she came out of an african background. she had 0 experience with central america. i lived in central america, i spoke spanish, and we, i was asked to provide the front office us list the relevant cables every morning. remember, this is, this is back in ancient times when we dealt with paper. it was not electronic. so i would call through, you know, 500 pages of overnight traffic. come up with a select group of messages that i thought the front office should be aware of. and 2nd, for unbeknownst to me, mary mccarthy was doing the same thing except she did not know what she was looking at. and so she was sending some of the most outrageous outline these pieces for, well, i didn't later discover because it was only when i went in for my performance appraisal report that they said, well, we got, we didn't promote, see,
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even though i was in the top 10 percent of and less in terms of current production and, and are producing research papers and sort of an excellent brief or so we didn't promote you because quote, we have questions about the integrity of your analysis. at that point, i was like that cartoon character, roger rabbit, you know, where the eye is completely bogged out of the head. and i discover what it happened is they were getting different traffic from mary mccarthy. and what i was said before, and so i asked them, oh, just up front. why didn't you tell me in the very 1st day that you noticed this, why did you let this go on for over a month without pointing out that she didn't know what she was doing without giving me a chance to explain why i was doing what i was do and so at that point and the, the person who was the deputy in the office at the time, carmen medina, you may have run across, drove some point is later she was there, she was elevated up the chain of command. you know,
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a carpet is rises to the top. yeah. oh, i was brought up. i was curious because i thought this, this group of incompetence it. this is how they're going to operate. i don't want to be part of it. and then i received an offer. i couldn't refuse and bass that or busby. we've just been named as the corporate coordinator for counterterrorism state department. previously had been the special envoy for the central american peace process. and i have regularly briefed him. and so he liked me. he understood that i was confident and so he asked me to come work for him and state. uh, the only way i could do that was to move as a schedule the contractor. but uh frankly, i was still furious with what the agency had done. and mind you, but the last 6 months of the c, i a i received 2 exceptional performance on works. i mean that it shows you just have completely disconnected from reality. they are on the one hand, they say i'm an exceptional performer. and then all the other heavy got questions about the integrity of my analysis,
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and they don't have the courage or the integrity the comment come from me about it and say, why are we, why are you giving us different informations and mary mccarthy. and i could tell them very simply, because these ignorant and does not know what she's doing. when you got to the state department, you were immediately put into important work in counter terrorism. i know that you were part of a, of a very serious terrorism investigation. i believe that was the pan m one o 3 attack that must have been rewarding work, but you chose to leave what led to that decision. the reason i ask is that you almost immediately became a critic of us counterterrorism policy. can you explain why? when i write the state my, my duties were basically, i was the deputy director in charge of the anti terrorism assistance training program. i was in charge of the policies on transportation security, both aviation and maritime and then providing support for the military special
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operations. and my very 1st, within 3 weeks of arriving, we deployed at the time what was considered a top secret team, the emergency support team to el salvador because salvador and realize that quote, taking members of delta force hostage. now what actually happened was a big role as it storm this hotel, not realizing there was a delta force element inside that hotel. and the delta guys are on the teeth and, and i was the salvador grill as realize what they were up against, the side of what's better, not to attack the back door. nonetheless, we deployed this uh, this interagency team that consisted of f, b i c, i a state department communicators and state department officials to all salvador along with a j soc as well deployed. it's, it's contingent and i ended up writing the, the 1st what was called the logistics cable, which ironically ends up. and it was continuing to be used for that particular
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mission. 20 years later. um, so i was there for 4 years and 1993 my my contract that scheduled the contractor was coming due and the decision of the incoming clinton administration was we can downsize on, on the terrorism front. and so my job went away and i became, at that point, the contractor almost immediately after leaving government. larry, you begin appearing as a pundit on television shows a new shows around the united states in which you gave commentary. you were prescient in 1998 when you warned americans about osama bin lot and you said that been logged in. the quote was consumed by hatred and craziness. if not confronted, he would continue to terrorize americans around the world. he has no compunction about killing women and children. he's a complete gala terry and his murderous attitude on quote. but you took some heat
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in 2001 when you published a piece in the new york times in which you argue that terrorism was not the biggest challenge that the us faced. and that terrorism should not be portrayed that way. why the change in your analysis? well, it's one thing to recognize that there is, are terrorist threats out there? and there are particular individuals or groups that can carry out those attacks. but then you've got to put it in perspective. it is not an excess dental trap. by any measure, in fact, terrorism basically by definition is the actions of individuals who are weak. we do not have the ability to confront on a military basis of ation. they have to, you know, be more circumspect. and frankly, it's more and taking just a part of what i was reacting to and seen at the time is that terrorism was being trumpeted in a way to get it replaced, replaced the soviet threat economy trip. you know,
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previously we had justified massive defense spending because we had to stop the spread of international communism. don't you know? well, once rochelle, what sort of the soviet union went away and rushed here to emerge much weaker. all of a sudden that rationale no longer held up. and you had all these the fact that the defense contractors clamoring for a. how are we going to get said? where are we going to get paid at law? behold terrorism, the gifts a kept on giving the events of $911.00, your lead to just complete $180.00 degree. turn in what the united states that i know right after the bush administration came at the end of january, 2001. richard clark had prepared a very detailed memo, laid out what needed to be done to deal with the threat that was close by al qaeda
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. and it was a real threat. it was not manufactured. it was, it was genuine, and it was significant and that they were a hed international organized efforts. but that was rejected. it was ignored. they're supposed to be an inter agency meeting, chaired at the national security council on combating terrorism that ceased. and the bush administration was devoting its efforts at the time to promote, in building a missile defense system to and noted was in that summer. i believe that no george w bush accident. yeah. type ballistic missile tree. and that was important because the united states was planning at the time to try to develop and tie ballistic missile systems that would, would frankly post a threat to russia. but then came 911. i know there are a lot of conspiracy throws out there that it says that the united states is quite
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that all. but if that's not the case of this was, this is a pure example of combination of bureaucratic incompetence, arrogance hubris. and then the bush administration immediately pivoted and made combating terrorism, the number one priority, and then anything that was done done by anybody who was supporting terrorism in any way, but it became target. and it's just, you know, united states policy at that point. what completely off the rails. so i would note that in november of 2000 november 7th, i believe was a precise state milton barrett and the former chief of station and the pakistan that ran the ask in war this latter years. and i will put, put together an op yet and that off with a note of that whoever was the next president, because it was still a dispute where there was going to be al gore or george
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w bush that they needed to deal with 2 specific threats it might look nea, who'd been behind the bombing, so the marine barracks in the us embassies and be rude in the mid eighties. and also i'm a big lot. yeah, i think i'd challenge anybody to go back to november of 2000 and find anybody else that was say, hey, you need to be prepared to deal with osama lot. so when i wrote that off, we had in the summer of 2001 i was so no, he doesn't believe that terrorism says, right. no, i believe i don't believe terrorism is the greatest threat we face it is, it is has to be put in the context is the threat that needs to be dealt with. but we don't need to exaggerate it. and it really became sort of a cultural to be a public width and used to just apply a lot of very my view unsavory. and then the legal policies you have always been outspoken in your opposition to the manipulation of intelligence and intelligence
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analysis for political purposes. this tailoring of intelligence was especially agreed. yes. during the george w bush administration. and then vice president dick cheney and his senior staff were famous for cherry picking intelligence reports that fit their personal ideologies that led you to be an outspoken critic of the iraq war. and of the c eyes response to the rock for tell us about that. i, members, i was, i was sitting at the nixon center with patrick lang and joe wilson among others charles, crowd timer. so it was quite a mix of personalities and, and this was in january of 2003. and at the time that was the 1st time i met joe wilson. i didn't realize joe was married to my former c. i a classmate, valerie plame. oh. and so, and then no time did you ever go, hey, my wife was a secret agent, you know?
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none of that never came up, but we're all sort of puzzling about boy, the us government must really have some top secret intelligence they're not revealing. because none of this makes sense about their walk. and then is it a folded? i had a conversation with one of our mutual friends, fulton, and fulton, and that the time was the national intelligence council. and he, he passed on me. he says there, hey, there is no evidence to this. and so at that point i began speaking out and i'm, i was recorded on national public radio, but michelle norris, i believe in may criticizing, said that there was no justification for this page. um i work with a interesting is previous 6 months prior to back in november of 2002 i appeared on the hannity and called show at that time i was uh, fox news and i was getting paid, you know, $1000.00 a week,
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which is pretty sweet deal and i was asked if the route about the united states going into or walk. and i said, united states was not in a position to fight the 2 front war and that we should not invade iraq. well, i was been subsequently not asked to come back on any of the shows, even though they continue to pay me. and i found out later that roger ailes specifically had sent down word that i was not to be put back on here. because basically what i was saying, he thought was worse. so that's where i was learned that speaking out can have some consequences, financial and otherwise, but the, you know, it wouldn't change. we're speaking with former c, i a and state department officer larry johnson. stay with us, we'll take a short break and come right back. the
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the ukraine's long anticipated counter offensive housing deidre gunn,
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but it's not off to a good start. this does not bode well for the camp regime, and more importantly, it is a testament to the effectiveness of nato ukraine is failing since those ne the, the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with former c. i a and state department officer, larry johnson. larry, thanks again for being with us. larry, i think you surprised a lot of people with your criticism of the obama administration that many saw be as harsh as your criticism of the bush administration. brock obama was certainly no friends to whistle blowers and he surrounded himself with a lot of bad people from the c i a. is that what your objection was to obama, or was it something deeper as well that early days i was just, just looking at his prior associations with, you know,
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convicted aerosmith bill errors the people associated with the weather underground . but i mean, he was, he was deliberately hiding his pass and it was, you know, the, the image that he betrayed and presented to the american public was not consistent with his background. i mean, you know, for example, what i pointed out that he was adopted by an indonesian man. so i'm also terrell. and actually i've tried to gain access to those adoption records in indonesia and i had a friend of mine to retire the f. b. i hosted rescue team guy who was actually over the nation during training at the time. and he went in to try to, you know, he got with some of his buddies there and they tried to access that material, which had already been all been cleaned out, cleaned up by who john brennan. so brandon had been active out working to help a burnish uh brock obama image. but you know,
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a bomb. i like like bush, they're both draughts and it actually in the internet. some aspects. i think obama was more for the next years, particularly when you look at what was done in the overthrow of governments in libya. you attempt it over through the government or bus your assault in syria. uh no, my daughter, the rise of the, of the, of the crew and, and ukraine which took out a duly elected president, may have been corrupt that he was still duly elected. oh, no. oh, bama was involved with the overthrow of more countries or attempted over throw board governments in george w bush. just can't believe that to another of the myriad problems that many former c i a officers have is with something called the publications review board. everybody who is ever worked for the c, i a even if you work there for 15 minutes,
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must submit every thing that he or she writes to the publications review board for clarence. the problem with the p r b is that they're highly politicized. if you write something that's pro c, i a, you get it cleared quickly. if you're critical of the c i a, you can be bogged down in the process for years. i've certainly tangled with them. what has been your experience getting your writing cleared with the c i a have they tried to silence? you know, i've had very little it is the only things that we presented the parent and i did present that off for clarence and that was, it was really fascinating is say, officers can go on any kind of television or radio and they're not required to get that pre clear nor is there any way to pre clear that kind of thing. so in other words, what you may have written in the book, you could have just gone on television and set it. and they couldn't have done anything about that. and then once that's out there in the transcript recorded,
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then you go, you know, then you're, you're free. all the other thing has been interesting, is that not doing anything to go after people writing blogs and such and opinion piece. so it's, it's just, it's a very inconsistent policy. it's really, it has not caught up with technology. it's something that's rooted back when we were dealing with typewriters and the only a form of communication more in books and magazines, and hard copy newspapers, the whole electronic ages. i think i really created some problems for them to leery your detractors. ready that you're a bomb thrower that you'd like to stir the pot. and you've been criticized in the past for saying that. michelle obama used the racial epithet against white people that john kerry committed a war crime in vietnam. and that the british g. c h q had tapped donald trump's phone. how do you respond to that criticism as well?
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well, there are 3 different things going on there. the, the, the why did you take that was given to me initially by said limit hillary's bestbuy and said, said reached out to me and said, hey, i've got this information, can you, can you check on a concert? ok. so i started asking around, i checked with 3 different people, one of them, a very respected journalist in washington, dc. ad. oh, we confirmed. yeah, we've heard that too. yeah, it's all i published out of my blog. well, the thing went by and in fact the, the, the obama campaign put out a, a response telling me that no, michelle had said, why did he not wife. and i thought, well, that's odd. why would you come out and say, you know, give that explanation if there was not such a take. but then with, with show your child care, i went back and pressed set, luminous eyes. it's sabrina. just come from who's your source?
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and he directed me to david brock, media matters. so what it was, you know, i got completely used and i apologize, been writing for having been used by the clipping campaign in that regard. just read that kind of just information. the whole thing about john kerry that was simply iris competing and something that popped up on the, on the web, posted on my blog. it lasted for about 24 hours and i took it down to that whole john kerry thing is a complete, a red herring. the british spine on donald trump. absolutely. they did. it was, it was, is you know, the work around. see i to not spy on.

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