since they just meeting with less than 5 minutes to in between. so one clear direction for the russia or china partnership will be to bring both keys and kansas to people, especially the developing well, wrapping up here and use program but only for now. here an aussie international catch up on all of us stories, you know the website because all the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter level counter offensive. what counter offensive was the trains recent attack along 5 sections of the front, merely an expensive p r stunt. it would seem so washington has no interest in seeing this conflict and this votes badly for ukraine, n ukrainians. the cross talking public relations as war. i'm joined by my guest, alexander h on in st. petersburg. he is a senior lecture at st. petersburg state institute of technology in tulsa. we have

jeremy whose model he is a managing editor of cobra, action magazine, and in finland across democracy. or he's a finish political blogger, and commentator hard gentleman cross sack roles, and in fact, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate, alexander, i will go to you 1st here and you have a tender age or of any other than the rest of us here. but, you know, watching what's going on with in ukraine, particularly with the, the, the destruction of this damn. we don't know exactly what happened, but i think we can presume, considering we have other incidents of a similar kind over the last 15 months. it reminds me growing up when i was told by the us military that we had to destroy the village to save the village. it sounds very much like the same thing going on. now, the ukraine's western partners are encouraging ukraine to destroy their own country, to i guess, save the country your thoughts alexander as well. and you mentioned age. so if you look at what people are saying on social media, like a read of this,

you have this very confusing situation where they say, oh, all of ukraine's 1991 borders are ukraine. those are their people. but then they're very happy that these people are now suffering their entire cities and villages being flooded by the effects of this damn being destroyed. so on the one hand, they're ukrainian, so they belong to a great. on the other hand, their russian enemies deserves to be punished. so it's quite confusing. they're trying to, i don't, i don't know how these folks don't see the fact that none of this lines up logically, but it's all just very ideological. so none of that really needs to make any kind of sense. it's all in emotional game. and this also plays into the media strategy that the us and western partners are using, which is that all of it is logically complete nonsense. none of the things that they say make any sense, but it's all emotionally driven, so they show some pictures or make some claims. and then everyone is expected to

have a certain emotional response to what they're reporting. but that's apparently working out well enough for younger generations. for resume or as millennials and apparently upwards of half of the baby boomers and generation x. so it's kind of disappointing that people aren't being more critical under thinking in analysis in western countries. yeah. well, in jeremy, i saw that wasn't that long ago. now we don't have to go back in history, looking at the drumbeat to war in iraq, you know, and after what we will never let that happen. again. no, we learned are less and we, you know, we'll be more skeptical. this is far, far worse than it was to the the drum beat toward the rocks far, far worse, because there's no defense allowed. jeremy. yeah, i mean the scene repeatedly, i guess people seem to feel. busy for it, every time you know the sod and syria, they believe the propaganda about that could daffy. you have even alter the media,

were you know, demonizing these kind of lead it was. could daffy saw put in? and it's a similar strategy that was used back in the cold war was, you know, for the castros when the us was carrying a terrorist activity on cuba. and that's what we're seeing. we're seeing terrorist activity of blowing out pipelines, bombing irrigation is down, i mean that that was a crime for which nancy leaders were prosecuted in hong at nuremberg. this is really just great. a high level of war crime nursing. and yeah, this is sad as he's pointing out that so many in the american public are going along with this. and i was as even like, people on the left, the live in tulsa, oklahoma, and the, what do you, guthrie say a this leslie icon? woody guthrie is center on and push the riot. i. what is the russian band that year and age on stage on pollutants, and they had all these stand with ukraine, t shirts. they were handing out the crowds of the volume and i was at the event. well, you know, the, we'll have to do

a separate program and how the left has become pro war a in, in my lifetime. i remember the anti war movement. there is a child during the winding up of the vietnam war. that's a topic for another day, marco, let me go up to you in finland here. one of the most interesting news, events of the last not a cycle, is that there are reports. there's nothing concrete here that a countries like poland mason, their own troops there, and they coalition of the willing what you've heard, that phrase before. we know how that all worked out here. i mean, this is an intentional escalation here. and because russia has not responded up, the escalation, lighter doesn't mean it won't in the future, this is extremely dangerous, because from a russian point of view, poland is a nato country. so, i mean, you know, and they, then we, we don't have the, they're forcing an article 5. but by doing that, they're ignoring article one of the nato tree. not the star wars. go ahead marco in

finland. yes, i've seen these this winter escalate is coming to the 3. what is i'm going to need to attend? we have already seen the insignificant media, the up in red, orange coming, and pointers on this topic is saying that, ok, this was russia's doing on this. all right? so as far as i don't know, the scores by now or even is as the as a declared war on tweet to i guess between sir and so this will go very direction. yeah. well, especially the company is going to have the match as a meeting today. or something about the consultation, etc. but i think the or the gathering together to try to achieve a consensus of what to do next and how to go against dressing next. you know,

it's very interesting, alexander, i remember a few years ago doing. i don't remember why we were doing a program on a rack and while there was an a i c, i a apologist on defending american occupation of the rack. and i, i asked him a very simple question. i said, don't you think the american government is healthy rack enough? after all of this? i think you can ask the same question and we help the radians and up. i mean, because what we see is we know you look at the demographic decline of the country. it's dramatic and no, no country like a in modern history seems such a dramatic declining demographics. we have it's completely uh, on lifeline with the west and couldn't running its economy and whatnot, paying pensions and whatnot. and now the, you destroyed the livelihoods of tens of thousands of farmers in the, in the southern part of ukraine. i mean, i can see how this is helping ukraine, alexander as well. ukraine is being used as a tool, obviously,

and they're fully willing to sacrifice that. i suppose, on some level that makes strategic sense. given that ukraine has been a part of russia for centuries. so in some way, it's just using a part of russia against russia, so they don't care what the casualties are, the damage and the loss of life is because, well, it's a good deal for them. as senator lindsey graham has pointed out into other warhawks in the senate and the house. so for them is a great deal. and the other issue is apparently the push for war from some of the leads in washington, who apparently would like to start world war 3 with russia and china, apparently simultaneously. there are apparently not losing steam here. so the push for war continues, and i think they're on a schedule here because the way economically, everything is going and mail it's early on the ground into ukraine. they have to

start the war sooner rather than later. because the longer this goes on to week or the west position is going to be. so a year ago larry thinks the ceo of black rock was going on fox news. and he was asked, well, how long? well, you know, are, is, is the west going to win the economic war against russia any immediately said, 0100 percent. we're going to be drescher economically. well, here we are a year away from that prediction. very, very confident prediction. and here, russia's standing just fine, china is better backing up russia economically, and there's multiple countries that are starting to leave the us war of it. so things are looking very good for the west. strategically, they're running out of time and it looks worse and worse for them as we go forward . and jeremy reflects upon that because alexander is absolutely right. i think because we see the north stream, we see the destruction of this down here. i mean it, there was, and this is the kind of escalate is cut in terrorist activity,

but it's on an escalation ladder here and they're preparing for the next big thing . a dirty bomb because alexandra is right. i mean me, there's no way nato is going to win this war in a conventional sense. and i mean, you can go to up the ladder to nuclear weapons obviously. but veto sending all the trinkets in junk said they, they, they, the west has an use in their warehouses, is being sent to ukraine. they don't know how to use it. a lot of it doesn't work. a lot of it is dangerous, actually here. so they need a p r, so that's why i'm calling this program in a, it's a, it's a war is p r, because this is the only thing that they can keep people's attention and motivation . jeremy. yeah, uh, i think part of their aim is just to keep the word on bob. russia isn't ukraine like they did in afghanistan. i think the blueprint is of can stand the eighty's where, you know, brzezinski came out and said the goal had been to induce the russians vietnam mail by supporting the mood. yeah. dean, drawing them into the ask in trap at brzezinski called it,

and i think that's been their strategy in ukraine, but again, and then they can rach it up the sanctions. demonize russia. that's why we've seen this intense information more demon ization put in an act of justify ratcheting up sanctions. and they believe that the sanction would cripple the russian economy. but they miscalculate, because putting has responded to the sanction since their inception in 2012 through a number of methods including drawn closer to china, developing the rate and unions import substitution, investing in a local industry technology being so the roof had very, very low supports and so i'm rushing, never even heard of them. so i ran into the strategy this time and that would work . yeah, i understand the eighty's and it did succeed and bleeding, the soviet union button, brzezinski, grad, bradley, there. the district, things over there in fire. but i think things have changed if i'm. yeah, but how much i think you've been here for you. i think there's something you're

like right on a lot of those points here, but i'm likely asked in an episode. the west is suffering the consequences of its own policies. here gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on public relations as more saying with our to the russian states, narrative as tired as i'm sort of the most sense community best. most all sun set up the same assistance must be the one else calls question about this,

even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin move. yep. mission the state on the rush coding and split the r t. suppose that keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services for the question, did you say a request, which is the willing of the a sofa to, to store, you know, cranium. daugherty, a surname? yeah, i did. she shipped a dr. meano's report. the control room for 2 of us, so we fixed you to get the system really being you have enough lots and lots of products and that's what i see. mean. yeah, we did the cloud. so it's actually, it's strange uh,

fox news, but i'll let you drive both on the on their own crazy if that's where you store lot of the my software. but just do you still know satellite if she ever always gives us, what are we shipping stuff, just a good fit, a lift or slip that came over to them. i need deals says that you are in school, so that's good news. i used to move on when they finished that for couple years, you know, to buy these folks clicked on. so i'm saying yes, i see the best way to take a picture of the day. so if i, if it's the take a fresh look around, there's

a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really once a better wills. and is it just because it shows you fractured images, presented to this, but can you see through their illusions, going underground? can the welcome back across the top. were all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing public relations as war? the ok, let's go back to marco in finland, marco we've, what we've discussed so far in this program is very grim. it's very dark and it's very dangerous. but your country just joining nato. why?

as i think the, the always does things in the end of the pro br office and that to the people. but this was the ultimate goal or something like that because we were new truck country. enjoy it. it's a international risk to use of being why, like a sweeps of rental scandinavia or something. and then our power speed to uh, behind the scenes always wanted to be in the western center of our do, agreed with the, you know, administration, but they will join nato finally kind or no, i'm open to you against pressure. so it's crazy. yeah,

but it seems to me that you're seeing, you know, if you have sacrificing your security by joining the western block, which, you know, alexander and, you know, you know, people talk about nato all the time is a military alliance. so i, i think it's far more a p r operation. okay, more than anything else. and you've already numerated on the a number of things here. we need the i, c, c, the legal, the law fair element that's being thrown out. we have the green deal to the black sea, which falling apart, which is when the ukrainians intentionally want to depaula park again against their own people. again in the west will pay for it in the global south certainly does. here. this is all emotions. the, this is the, it's all a diversion from um, what's actually happening on the ground, which is really quite great for the ukrainians. okay. i mean, i've seen a number of these villains where they are a forcing young man into the military. it's really, really grim and brutal here, but that's not seen in the west and what's different from the,

the episode and up and assigned is that the west is actually feeling the impact of their own sanctions against russia and rushes. as you pointed out, i live here, you live here, there's no crisis when it comes to the economy. alexander a, i think a is actually not that negative as it may seem. so obviously there's a lot of bad stuff happening in europe. in short term, there's a lot of problems, but long term i'm feeling very optimistic actually. so you're seeing the effects of what's going on now play out. we have blinking, going over to saudi arabia for an emergency meeting, basically with the saudis, who are supposed to be american allies. and basically, the next day, the saudis are making deals with the russians. so they're obviously not interested in whatever they heard from blinking. and it's kind of catastrophic the way the us is so rapidly losing influence on the world stage. and this is

a very good thing for the peoples of western europe and the peoples of america who are under the some of this regime in washington and their vassals and brussels. so the quicker these guys lose influence the better for everybody. and i think a lot of people who watch your programs, they, you know, they, i would say impressed. they're looking to be informed, but i think they're all pretty well informed. anyway, so perhaps another reason would be, entertainment is everybody's got to have a hobby. but on some level, a lot of people that i talked to in the west, they were just wondering what do we do? and i'm to some extent there's not much that we can do and we're just individual people on this train wreck on some level is just going to continue barreling forward and we don't have much influence on it. so, but on the other hand, there are elected officials who get loaded into the offices and in some countries the voting system does work to one degree or another. so i would tell people who

are interested in what they can do to stop writing comments on facebook and social media that no one cares about. and instead, right, impolite but professional e mails to their local elected officials and harangue them to get them to do it. they are supposed did you want to do the right thing? well, i well, but, but, but alexandra, you have, you know, as sandy cortez a o. c. you know, she came to washington on an anti war platform and she bowed for every single defense bill. okay. i'm to, i'm tired of these people here. there's no, they're not the solution there. the problem, jeremy, i want to go back to you and something that it's been, it's been discussed here. i was under, so i'll do a lot of really good things here because it seems to me that mainly the, the west really wants to push a timeline here know ceasefire. of course they don't, they want to keep it going, but they need, they need something. but when, when this is all about regime change and russia and they're not getting anywhere uh, in that regard right now. so they may take some very bold step steps. i don't know what they are, but victoria knew and is a risk taker. go ahead, jeremy. you have to agree with that assessment. yeah, it was,

it was telegraphed in a rand corporation report on balancing russia. they basically outlined their strategy and go over team change, and i think you know, by and said at one point, you know, important has to go and i would agree with, you know, these are wild cards. these people are, i think they may be mentally in balance. and they could do anything. i mean, uh, you know, i think one of their expertise and setting a blog, flags operations where they're going to commit something, parenthesis atrocity and blame the russians. although at this point, you know, it's hard to believe maybe queue the russian. so many time the bombing themselves and sabotaging their own pipeline. and then they come out 6 months later. and now i mean now they're saying that the new york times at least is reporting that the trainings are behind it. busy even though it's probably the c i a, a, or other western governments. and so i don't know how many times the public to

believe these lies. and so maybe that strategy is a bit worn, but they seem to keep doing that and they're stepping it up like, what is them? they're trying to blame russia and that, that could be a pretext or more escalation. so i think this right now, the formula, these kind of blog flags, we saw it, they didn't, syria with the chemical weapons. we know for a fact that that's, it's a very unlikely of sod used chemical weapons on his own people. the scientific studies show that they were coming from level territory. in some cases there were no actual chemical attacks. they were conventional attacks and the, the air looked a certain way to make it look like, oh, or the scene was staged. so they'll probably fall that syria blueprints and yeah, this could lead to world or, or nuclear war potentially. well, yeah, exactly, and, and mark, one of the things it's, it's, it's, again terrifying. is that there is, there's no trust here. there's no reason for the russians to trust anything. coming

out of brussels, london, washington. um, even warsaw, which it seems like the polls have a disproportionate influence now. right. and this is what truly dangerous here is, because, you know, we, there's there, and then what, so got an idea about the indivisibility of, of security. we have that through the helsinki process here. these a leads to have no idea what that means. okay? and that will be no peace in europe until russia has security guarantees. everybody's talking about ukraine security guarantees, but the everyone has to have security guarantees. why have we drifted so far away from that thinking when that type of thinking kept the peace during the cold war? yeah, i think it's a, it's been a long round thing. so for example, now this, those are the screw, but it's not us nato countries who are willing to launch some sort of ministry of their ration senior gray committees, not the rejects that demand. so cigarettes,

government to use for ukraine. and i think this is what some rungs for you to some of the older character said when he spoke about hold to you are a new euro and what to do the ministration thing. so that is the policy. so you are, is being led to fall into, into bulk states, all these states willing to go against russia. and it's not necessarily what western europeans font. yeah, but the mark who they, that's all nice and fine. but the why with the russian, see, there's any kind of difference. ok whatsoever. hi, finland's, a member of nato. ok, so i mean, if the polls rule across the board or, well, then they leave, the russians will say, well, you're part of nato, they're part of new go. i mean, it's all fair game. i mean, i the insanity of finland joining the alliance now. and i hope future has in story and we'll explain it. but it may be gentlemen,

it won't be his story. and so will explain anything. it will be psychologist because this is all insane. marker police respond. yes, i think these, it's a, the scenario we are heading, but i hope the ones restaurant ones isn't defeats the reagan pharmacies, so i'll probably do some of that is no longer possible to keep up this rest to be our sons. and this whole number of the table going on maybe then people will uh this wake up and kind of realize that they have been deceived. yeah, yeah, absolutely. yeah, al, alexander, i'm very, very pessimistic about that because of the media space that is so close. i mean, this program, the space and i work at we were more band. uh, let me know on youtube, we were actually quite popular on youtube. this program was really popular on youtube. that's why it was taken out. okay. we, we,

we have tucker carlson. he was taken out is last mr. bar on twitter eco, it's very much what gentlemen we're saying on this program. alexander. right, well, i think that to the leaders in the west are in an echo chamber. and what seems insane to us is actually very logical to them because they're so restricted in the information that they're getting. like what larry pink was thinking a year ago, that this would be an easy economic war against russia. and a lot of people on the ground who apparently thought that somehow ukraine would be able to just feed russia militarily. these are not very logical thoughts and you have all of these whitehouse staff who are continuing to pursue these fail strategies. so these guys are just pursuing, pushing forward and they're not going to listen to any kind of other rational information. just like a r t has been blocked off of youtube. any kind of alternative information is blocked out as governance as well. anybody who voices,

anything against the main line is going to get fired. yep. so they put themselves into their own predicament where they literally just don't know what's going on. and i don't think they're going to find their way out. yeah, well gentlemen, it's really interesting is that when this all come crashing down, they're gonna understand they're not going to understand why. when you know, when, when the empire comes to an end, it'll be the american people that will hear about it last. unfortunately for them, that's the way things are moving. as all the time we have. i want to think, my guess in tulsa, st. petersburg and in finland. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at archie. see you next time. and remember, prospect rules the, the, the toner, it will see skit 3 sheet and they will see skit out of the go with the feed that

you sent those us. that was movie on there is zacko. go and then get out showing an of use for it. up and you're not ish, what full state taxation. you folks have shut off the shut off. she's the instructional you have about john long would love to go. just talk a little you should see those sheets of those a go. there's a little c, a years ago. now the sales custom also expands. here was the months me, i'm a photo skin. she was of the about the show and 2nd most to go to court order. sure . thing it's been collab most are using comes of from getting into the 30 year old, but when you get a mind for sure, justified. gotcha. for 3 years or can you i need to console people to revise. your site was the case of china. it's the, the us elevate to tie one's international stuff. it's easy. you have nancy lucy's visits, which are already credit crisis. if you have anthony clinton,

i'm short china wilson thoughts a military operation. there is i haven't even have those. i don't have even down to about the, [000:00:00;00] the top headlines right now on off the international of comments from the kremlin presidents not improved in size, keeps counter offensive. conversely, on date 6, lot of changed. any of the subjects, as you probably need to forward, has have the software, the enormous law. india shrugs offer us congressional panels,