you know, all of a very briefly and i should say is available in some cable networks in the united states certainly banned in the european union and britain and we go out to so many different channels. i just want to say though, you went to russia in this film and people watch the film can see that you actually went to bed. i just, very, very briefly, the prospect of the new foss breather react is that you witness the recycle. a waste, just very quickly. yes, the russians of a 250000 people working on atomic energy that in the a government agency rose at all. we need government backing to get these things done on a big scale. france has the electricity data falls. fine. it has its agency, that's what you have and that's what you need to do to move things the. ready department of energy by the way, has been good and they're pro nuclear, but they're slow and they're not spending big money, big, big money, but they are definitely backing initial initiative. they're back in the small

modular reactors and they want to, she is 15 companies in america, 3 enterprise companies developing it. this is great extra to make them smaller reactor and i think it's one of works and it's going to be huge. but you know, it's not going to deal with a volume that we need from the world to we still need the heavy reactors. china is doing the biggest amount of progress as of the date they have committed to. they have like, a, some 506070 reactors. i forgot, but they're building a lot more. according to what i read recently, the building. $440000000000.00 worth of new reactors, some $170.00 some. and they're going to be about. their plan is to have enough by 2038 a significant yet. we know the china uses a lot of coal and still does so all of the more reactors they can build, a less coal they will use all of this done. thank you. thank you. actually have that's it for the show. remember, you can watch new fan now on video on demand will be back on monday on russian day

with funeral. you can of chapman to the presidium of russian scouts and before and defense policy until then, you can give it to us about all social media of instruct sense, and then you will country and had to a general going on the going to feel normal. they've come to us new and old episodes of going underground see on monday the public sentence and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. what could i please or do you have the state department c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time,

but again, we don't wanna watch it because it might just change the wayne state the, the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to the cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter level, counter offensive. what counter offensive wizard crane's recent attack along 5 sections of the front, merely an expensive p r stunt. it would seem so washington has no interest in

seeing this conflict. and this modes badly for ukraine, n ukrainians, the processing public relations as war. i'm joined by my guest, alexander a ton in st. petersburg. he is a senior lecturer at st. petersburg state institute of technology in tulsa. we have jeremy guzman of he is a managing editor of colbert action magazine and in finland across democracy that he's a finish political blogger, and commentator hard gentleman costs up rolls. and i think that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate, alexander, i will go to you 1st here and you have a tender age or a bit younger than the rest of us here. but, you know, watching what's going on with in ukraine, particularly with the, the, the destruction of this dam. we don't know exactly what happened, but i think we can presume, considering we have other incidents of a sudden, little kind over the last 15 months. it reminds me growing up when i was told by the us military that we had to destroy the village,

the saved the village. it sounds very much like the same thing going on. now, the ukraine's western partners are encouraging you crying to destroy their own country to i guess, save the country your thoughts alexander as well. and you mentioned age. so if you look at what people are saying on social media, like a read of this, you have this very confusing situation where they say, oh, all of ukraine's 1991 borders are ukraine. those are their people. but then they're very happy that these people are now suffering their entire cities and villages being flooded by the effects of this damn being destroyed. so on the one hand, they're ukrainian, so they belong to ukraine. on the other hand, their russian enemies deserves to be punished. so it's quite confusing, they're trying to, i don't, i don't know how these folks don't see the fact that none of this lines up logically, but it's all just very ideological. so none of that really needs to make any kind

of sense. it's all in a motional game, and this also plays into the media strategy that the us in western partners are using, which is that all of it is logically complete nonsense. none of the things that they say make any sense, but it's all emotionally driven. so they show some pictures or make some claims and then everyone is expected to have a certain emotional response to what they're reporting. but that's apparently working out well enough for younger generations resume or as millennials and apparently upwards of half of a baby boomers and generation x. so it's kind of disappointing that people aren't being more critical under thinking in analysis in western countries. yeah, well, it's jeremy. yeah, i saw that wasn't that long ago now we don't have to go back in history looking at the drum beat to war in iraq, you know, and after, well, we'll never let that happen again. no, we learned our less and we, you know, we'll be more skeptical. this is far,

far worse than it was to the the drum beat toward the rocks far, far worse because there's no descent allowed. jeremy. yeah, i mean the scene repeatedly, i guess people seem to feel. busy for every time you know, the sod and syria, they believe the propaganda about that could daffy. you have even alter the media, were, you know, demonizing, these kind of leaders, whether it's could daffy saw put in. and it's a similar strategy that was used back in the cold war was, you know, for the castro when the us was carrying a terrorist activity on cuba. and that's what we're seeing. we're seeing terrorist activity of blowing up pipeline bombing irrigation is down. i mean that that was a crime for which nancy leaders were prosecuted in hong at nuremberg. this is really just great. a high level of war crime nursing. and yeah, this is sad as he's pointing out that so many in the american public are going along with this. and i was as a, even like people on the left, the live in tulsa,

oklahoma, and the, what do you, guthrie say a this leslie icon? woody guthrie is center honored, pushy riot. and if i, what is the russian band that year and age on stage on pollutants? and they had all these stand with ukraine, t shirts. they were handing out the crowds of the volume and i was at the event. well, you know, the, we'll have to do a separate program and how the left has become pro war a in, in my lifetime. i remember the anti war movement. there is a child during the winding up of the vietnam war. that's a topic for another day, marco, let me go up to you in finland here. one of the most interesting news, events of the last not a cycle, is that there are reports. there's nothing concrete here that a countries like poland mason, their own troops there, and they coalition of the willing what you've heard, that phrase before. we know how that all worked out here. i mean, this is an intentional escalation here. and because russia has not responded up,

the escalation, lighter doesn't mean it won't in the future, this is extremely dangerous, because from a russian point of view, poland is a nato country. so, i mean, you know, and they, then we, we don't have the, they're forcing an article 5. but by doing that, they're ignoring article one of the nato tree. not the star wars. go ahead marco in finland. yes, i've seen these this winter escalate is coming to the freemont is going to need to come. we have already seen that insignificant media. they are being rep or coming. and pointers on this topic is saying that, ok, this was russia's doing on this. all right, so as far as i don't know, scores from now or even is as the, as a declared war on tweet to, i guess, to,

to and so this will go through very dire direction. yeah. well, basically the mentor is going to have their matches amazing today. oh, something about the possibilities that said, i think they are of the gathering together to try to achieve or consensus or what to do next on how to go against dressing next. you know, it's very interesting, alexander, i remember a few years ago doing. i don't remember why we were doing a program on a rack. and while there was an a i c, i a apologised on defending american occupation of the rack. and i, i asked him a very simple question. i said, don't you think the american government is healthy rack enough? after all of this? i think you can ask the same question and we help the radians and up. i mean, because what we see is, we know you look at the demographic decline of the country. it's dramatic and no, no country like a in modern history, seen such a dramatic decline in demographics. we have it's completely uh,

on lifeline with the west and couldn't running its economy and whatnot, paying pensions and whatnot. and now the, you destroyed the livelihoods of tens of thousands of farmers in the, in the southern part of ukraine. i mean, i can see how this is helping ukraine, alexander as well. ukraine is being used as a tool, obviously, and they're fully willing to sacrifice that. i suppose, on some level that makes strategic sense. given that ukraine has been a part of russia for centuries. so in some way, it's just using a part of russia against russia, so they don't care what the casualties are, the damage and the loss of life is because, well, it's a good deal for them. as senator lindsey graham has pointed out into other warhawks in the senate and the house. so for them is a great deal. and the other issue is apparently the push for war from some of the leads in washington,

who apparently would like to start world war 3 with russia and china, apparently simultaneously. there are apparently not losing steam here. so the push for war continues, and i think they're on a schedule here because the way economically everything is going and mel. it's early on the ground into ukraine. they have to start the war sooner rather than later. because the longer this goes on a week or the west position is going to be. so a year ago, larry saying, the ceo of black rock was going on fox news. and he was asked, well, how long? well, you know, are, is, is the west going to win the economic war against russia any immediately said, 0100 percent. we're going to be drescher economically. well, here we are a year away from that prediction. very, very confident prediction. and here, russia's standing just fine, china is they're backing up russia economically, and there's multiple countries that are starting to leave the us war of it. so

things are looking very good for the west. strategically, they're running out of time and it looks worse and worse for them as we go forward . and jeremy reflects upon that because alexander is absolutely right. i think because we see the north stream, we see the destruction of this down here. i mean it, there was, this is a kind of escalate is cut in terrorist activity, but it's a, as on an escalation ladder here and they're preparing for the next big thing, a dirty bomb because alexandra is right. i mean, mean there's no way nato is going to win this war in a conventional sense. and i mean, you can go to up the ladder to nuclear weapons obviously. but vito sending all the trinkets in junk said they, they, they, the west has in use in their warehouses is being sent to ukraine. they don't know how to use it. a lot of it doesn't work. a lot of it's dangerous, actually here. so they need a p r, so that's why i'm calling this program in a, it's a, it's a war. it's p r because this is the only thing that they can keep people's

attention and motivation. jeremy. yeah, uh, i think part of their aim is just to keep the word on bob. russia isn't ukraine like they did in afghanistan? i think the blueprint is of gamma stand the eighty's, where, you know, brzezinski came out and said the goal and been to induce the russians vietnam, you know, by supporting the mood. yeah. dean, drawing them into the ask in trap at brzezinski called it, and i think that's been their strategy and ukraine, but again and then they could ratchet up the sanctions. demonize russia. that's why we've seen this intense information more d, minimization pollutants. and that could justify ratcheting up sanctions, and they believe that the sanction would cripple the russian economy. but they miscalculate, because putting has responded to the sanction since their inception in 2012 through a number of methods including drawn closer to china, developing the rate and unions import substitution, investing in a local industry technology being so the roof had very,

very low supports and so i'm rushing, never even heard of them. so i ran the strategy this times that work. yeah, i understand the eighty's and it did succeed and bleeding, the soviet union button brzezinski. gra bradley there. but there strongly. so we didn't fire, but i think things have changed the time. yeah. but how much i think it will be your shift. i think there's something you're like right on a lot of those points here, but i'm likely asked in episode the west is suffering. the consequences of its own policies here, gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on public relations as more say, with our to the

the welcome back across stuff were all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing public relations as war the . okay, let's go back to marco in finland, marco we've, what we've discussed so far in this program is very grim. it's very dark. it's very dangerous when your country, just enjoying nato. why? as i think some of the, the always does things. but in the end of the drama, pro br office and that to the people. but these was the ultimate goal or something like that because we were in a neutral country. i enjoy it. it's a international risk to use of being why,

like a sweeps of angel started and maybe something in our power speed to uh, behind the scenes always wanted to be in the western the center of power. do agreed with the, you know, administration that they will join nato finally kind of now we are in open energy against suppressor. so it's crazy. yeah, but it seems to me that you're seeing, you know, if you're sacrificing your security by joining the western block, which, you know, alexander and, you know, you know, people talk about nato all the time is a military alliance. so i, i think it's far more a p r operation. okay, more than anything else. and you've already numerated on the a number of things here. we need the i, c, c, the legal, the law fair element that's being thrown out. we have the green deal to the black sea, which falling apart, which is when the ukrainians intentionally want to depaula park again against their

own people, again in the west will pay for it in the global south. certainly does. here. this is all emotions mean this is the, it's all a diversion from um, what's actually happening on the ground, which is really quite great for the ukrainians. okay. i mean, i've seen a number of these films where there are a forcing young men into the military. it's really, really grim and, and, and brutal here, but that's not seen in the west. and what's different from the episode, enough and assigned is that the west is actually feeling the impact of their own sanctions against russia and rushes. as you pointed out, i live here, you live here, there's no crisis when it comes to the economy, alexander, and i think that it's actually not that negative as it may seem. so obviously there's a lot of bad stuff happening in europe. in short term, there's a lot of problems, but long term i'm feeling very optimistic actually. so you're seeing the effects of what's going on now play out. we have blinking,

going over to saudi arabia for an emergency meeting, basically with the saudis, who are supposed to be american allies. and basically, the next day, the saudis are making deals with the russians. so they're obviously not interested in whatever they heard from blinking. and it's kind of catastrophic the way the us is so rapidly losing influence on the world stage. and this is a very good thing for the peoples of western europe and the peoples of america who are under the some of this regime in washington and their vassals and brussels. so the quicker these guys lose influence the better for everybody. and i think a lot of people who watch your programs, they, you know, they, i would say, and perhaps they're looking to be informed, but i think they're all pretty well informed anyway. so perhaps another reason would be entered team is everybody's got to have a hobby. but on some level, a lot of people that i talked to in the west, they were just wondering what do we do?

and i'm to some extent there's not much that we can do and we're just individual people on this train wreck on some level is just going to continue barreling forward and we don't have much influence on it. so, but on the other hand, there are elected officials who get loaded into offices and in some countries the voting system does work to one degree or another. so i would tell people who are interested in what they can do to stop writing comments on facebook and social media that no one cares about. and instead, right, impolite, but professional emails to their local elected officials and harangue them to get them to do it. they are supposed did you want to do the right thing? well i well, but, but, but alexandra and you have, you know, as sandy cortez a o. c. you know, she came to washington on an anti war platform and she bowed for every single defense bill. okay. i'm to, i'm tired of these people here. there's no, they're not the solution there. the problem, jeremy, i want to go back to you and something that it's been,

it's been discussed here. i was 100, so i'll do a lot of really good things here because it seems to me that mainly the, the west really wants to push a timeline here know ceasefire. of course they don't, they want to keep it going, but they need, they need something, but with this is all about regime change and russia and they're not getting anywhere. uh in that regard right now. so they may take some very bold step steps. i don't know what they are, but victoria knew and is a risk taker. go ahead, jeremy. you have to agree with that assessment. yeah, it was, it was telegraphed in a rand corporation report on balancing russia. they basically outlined their strategy and the goal of regime change. and i think you know, by and said at one point, you know, important has to go and i would agree with, you know, these are wild cards. these people are, i think they may be mentally in balance, and they couldn't do anything. i mean, uh, you know, i think one of their expertise and setting a blog, flags operations where they're going to commit something, parenthesis atrocity and blame the russians. although at this point, you know,

it's hard to believe named the queue, the russian so many time the bombing themselves and sabotaging their own pipeline. and then they come out 6 months later. and now i mean now they're saying the lives in new york times at least is reporting that the cranes are behind it. busy is probably the c i a, a or other western governments. and so i don't know how many times the public to believe these lies. and so maybe that strategy is a bit worn, but they seem to keep doing that and they're stepping it up like, what is them? they're trying to blame russia and that, that could be a pretext or more escalation. so i think this right now, the formula of these kind of blog flags. we saw it, they didn't, syria with the chemical weapons. we know for a fact that that's it's a very unlikely of sod used chemical weapons on his own people. the scientific studies show that they were coming from level territory. in some cases there were no actual chemical attacks. they were conventional attacks in the. the air looked

a certain way to make it look like a or the scene was staged. so they'll probably fall that syria blueprints and yeah, this could lead to world or, or nuclear war potentially. well, yeah, exactly, it, and mark, one of the things it's, it's, it's, again terrifying. is that there is, there's no trust here. there's no reason for the russians to trust anything. coming out of brussels, london, washington. um, even warsaw, which it seems like the polls have a disproportionate influence now. right. and this is what truly dangerous here is, because, you know, we, there's there, and then what, so got an idea about the indivisibility of, of security. we have that through the helsinki process here. these a leads to have no idea what that means. okay? and that will be no peace in europe until russia has security guarantees. everybody's talking about ukraine security guarantees,

but the everyone has to have security guarantees. why have we drifted so far away from that thinking when that type of thinking kept the peace during the cold war? yeah, i think it's a, it's been a long round thing. so for example, now this search for this group of non us nato countries who are willing to launch some sort of mandatory operations in ukraine, even these, not the rejects that demand. so single risk government to use for ukraine. and i think this is what some rungs for you to some of the old character said when he spoke about old to you or a new euro, and what to do the ministration thing so that it is a policy. so based on a bureau is being led to poland, to into bulk states, all these states willing to go against russia. and it's not necessarily what western european spots. yeah, but the mark who they,

that that's all nice and fine. but why would the russian see there's any kind of difference? ok whatsoever. finland's a member of nato. ok, so i mean, if the polls rolled across the border, well, then they lead the russians to say, well, you're part of nato, they're part of new go. i mean, it's all fair game. i mean i the insanity of finland joining the alliance now. and i hope future has in story and we'll explain it. but it may be gentlemen, it won't be his story. and so will explain anything. it will be psychologist because it says all insane. marco police respond? yes, i think these, it's a, with a scenario we are heading, but i hope the ones restaurant ones isn't defeats the reg and pharmacy. so i'll probably do some of that is no longer possible to keep up this rest to be our sons,

and this whole number of the team going on maybe then people will uh, this wake up and kind of realize that they have been deceived. yeah, yeah, absolutely. yeah, al, alexander, i'm very, very pessimistic about that because of the media space. it is so close. i mean, this program, the space and i work at we were for band what we know on youtube, we were actually quite popular on youtube. this program was really popular on youtube. that's why it was taken out. okay. we, we, we have tucker carlson. he was taken out. is last. mr. bar on twitter. echo is very much what gentlemen were saying on this program. alexander. right. well, i think that the, the leaders in the west are in an echo chamber. and what seems insane to us is actually very logical to them because they're so restricted in the information that they're getting. like what larry to think was thinking a year ago, that this would be an easy economic war against russia and a lot of people on the ground who apparently thought that somehow ukraine would be

able to just feed russia militarily. these are not very logical thoughts and you have all of these whitehouse staff who are continuing to pursue these fail strategies. so these guys are just pursuing, pushing forward and they're not going to listen to any kind of other rational information. just like a r t has been blocked off of youtube. any kind of alternative information is blocked out as governance as well. anybody who voices, anything against the main line is going to get fired. yep. so they put themselves into their own predicament where they literally just don't know what's going on, and i don't think they're going to find their way out. yeah, well gentlemen, it's really interesting is that when this all come crashing down, they're gonna understand they're not going to understand why when you, when, when the empire comes to an end, it'll be the american people that will hear about it last. unfortunately for them, that's the way things are moving as all the time we have. i want to think, my guess in tulsa, st. petersburg and in finland. and of course i want to thank our viewers for

watching us here at archie. see you next time. and remember prospect rules the, the on the toner and it will see skit through sheet. they will see skin out of the go with the feed that you sent those last i was, i'm only on is zacko. go on that good option and you know, he's uh, filled up and you're not, you show up for the state taxation. you folks have tried. i'm not sure, but i, she's just showing everybody on law would love to go. just talk a little you should see those sheets of the go. there's a little c a years ago. now the sales custom brands here was the most. he, i'm

a photo skin. she was a but all you know and about the show on 2nd most to go to court order statements and go out. and so usually it comes to shop, getting ready to go to your open when you get to mind for sure. what's the pipe? crochase that the score can yeah. and the console you put the device, you're saves the. ringback across just you in your space there was broken, i knew that with some of this kid by the name is of the most i'm national computer, which is obviously new to the controllers. when do i know who the

agency is in your budget? national jump. and so forth by produce these tips to my face that the captive morning saved us the voice of the easy to buy any of those names and you get all the on the commer sanchez, i've been doing news over 30 years and 2 languages around the world. and here in the united states, i've interviewed some what for presidents been fired by the largest uh, news networks in the world. and then co founded a publicly traded company from all of that, you know what i've learned, that new should be honest. and it should be direct and impactful and this is called direct impact