it is data that moves with a patient, diplomacy. we are dealing with real issues that affected increase the costs. nobody give us a piece, the price of cost. uh no bill noble piece faster than what never gives us. i cannot resist sharing that with our audience because i learned it from, from the lecture that the china is language used to have a special term for the russians, which literally translated as the old harry ma'am, and me to afford it. we man worse than barbarians to the european barbarians of the christian barbarians. i suppose. i wonder if you have coined any new term for us, the russians. now i don't have a new new orders. i think. well, you know, you can say uh some a brotherhood. i would say uh some, uh, yes, its not as i say, relationship improved based on the sincerity of both dice to resolve 3 issues.

and that you also, you don't have to pay attention to the original organizations, china and the russia initiative, which is shanghai corporation organization. this is the only regional organization china, actually in the shape and a to participate, you know, in order for that to proceed. uh, the 2 sides had to believe in some sort of ecumenical piece, rather than the conditional democratic piece. i mean, maybe they know a tap side if your concept, but there, there should have been some idea that we are on the equal basis here, and peace in is in our mutual interest. based on that, do you think it's fair to put the russia in the western county? because i think that all the russian history on, throughout many wars, we have thought what we have always saw um, you know, fair piece with our adversaries rather than uh, you know, making advantage of them. but the russian has one historic problem. they have not being able to deal with that's my view. the so called the you're asian complex

. whenever they had a chance, they prefer to integrate with wisdom part of this, of the russian world cup. but so often used to say common europe, the house, it's a wonderful idea. but today all from the encounter rejections on the west and pardon for one reason or another. at that time, russian seemed to be moving towards the east. this is a typical russian behavior. now, my personal view is russian still have that's complex with them. i'm now asian sites become far more important for them. they are, they seem to be able to overcome the complex. they begin to realize the rushing china relationship plus central asian countries together. a quote created a common community dock wilmont a piece for your asian hostile as well as your point into asian part,

we don't know about the euro part, but the professor trying to we have to take a very short a break right now, but we will be back to these fascinating discussion in just a few moments extension the summer to attend. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show it seriously. why watch something that's so different whitelisted opinions

that he won't get anywhere else to give it. please do have the state department c. i a weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not. we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way and say the welcome back to world reports with licensing chang distinguished fellow at the students and center in washington dc. professor showing before the break and we were discussing the so called russian, your region complex, which i think would be more accurately termed as russian inferior or it's

a complex before they repeat because they always saw that everything you know, most inspiring and enlightening is somewhere in the west, but i think this shift that you mentioned is happening not only because of rushes, newly discovered interest in the east, but also because of the russian realization that we ourselves may be a civilization in our own right. and that we don't need to. we can corporate with all nations on an equal basis, but we don't have to change ourselves to be lives or approved. i wonder and i, i would ask for an honest answer from you. do you believe that russia rises up to a level of civilization? it's hard to say, i'm sorry to say that because the russians they follow is called for a barrier between a coupon. for us, from the very beginning, you will have an empire. you never have a russia meet in the strict sense as

a nation state. so you are used to an employer, but you don't know how the run the state basically. so this is, i think you only have a state of russian state in the very short periods of time, which is very different from china. good. china has a state centralized states since 221 b. c. there was no dispute about the time like so rush up probably still need to learn quite a long time how to make our russian state a civil civil civilization. um, i do not see it for now, but the, i think the russians were striving for it. i think this support team has a great addition try to make it's a russian civilization of i have delta to believe it. it goes to happens every so now professor showing, regardless of whether russia is a state or civilization,

it wants to leave its own national destiny. it wants to develop to, according to its own, the vision, according to its own necessities, rather than serving somebody else has bidding and the many multiple believe that this is the crux of the tension. so with the west and the current conflict in the ukraine, i wonder how do you see what's happening in your credit? is it a regional conflict, or is it part of the largest trundle, including a struggle for, for the meaning of peace? well, 1st of all, it's a regular tragedy. this is there any further in the sign? it's a brother killing brother. it's no matter what. it's a sad story. this. uh yes, but it is also on, as i explained before, i believe it's the western blocks. it could, it could nervous about recent history or refused to accept recent history. that is primarily uh, uh, responsible for leading to that's

a sad situation. having say that's another combo. anybody who evade? and he bought his surgery. i mean, as a scholar, i don't, i don't accept that, no matter what. speaking about that many, a russian experts believe that the russian military intervention in the ukraine came out only when the crumbling calculated that a military confrontation with the west was inevitable. all regardless of what we do, we cannot compel the west uh to retract. 3 by good will i one day, is that conclusion about the never to bill it to you all of a class with the west has already been reached with beijing because your red lines are also being actively pushed right now. well, yes, there is no question about dogs in china. of course a tie. one is the issue here. chinese actually says it's the core

of the core interest to china and the even more about that one issue now you, you, you obviously right dates, it looks like united states in particular seem to be pursuing the same pattern of behavior. but ignoring the core of the core interests of china, ignoring on or purposefully destroying more neglecting it, what the united states wants to do is they want to pursue a policy called one china, one tie, one policy, united states claim. they never abandon one china policy. they're not pursuing to try and a policy, but they true something in between. that is a puppy to a sheet of one china, which is a legal one. but there is other one which is not really legal by international says . but if perpetuate that, the taiwan independence, so it is a defect to pay $1.00 independence policy for china. this has already crossed the

red line you have written before that we are now living in the pre world war one situation. and obviously nobody uh before. 1914 knew what couldn't become a fait accompli, but i still want to ask you what could possibly constitute the red line for china, the crossing of which may become the point of no return. well, in the case of china, it's the, the us a weather alibi. to tie one's international status. so you see you have a nice, a policies visit which already credit crisis. if you have anthony berlington, i'm sure china, we'll start a military operation. there was, i haven't even have notes. i don't have even doubts about that. if depends on the level americans try to elevate to tie once international steps that will be the red line. saudis cannot. so by getting a colorist besides, besides,

this is not your tray. probably one legally is part of china. is that the, there were some tell that even the dispute about that intell nash and international committee and, but the, i'm in the really the, in the, in a day and age when legality or international law is not a, uh, estimated as the highest value just uh, as uh, for example, piece is no taking a as the highest value. so i wonder, uh, what kind of a responsive crown measure do you think uh, china will be in uh, in the case of, uh, a for more open provocation from the united states. because nobody wants the war, right? nobody wants to and opened conflict. but the american strategy seems to be cutting the dogs to the tail piece by piece. you know, this slow encroachments, so when enough will be enough for china. i think if i send the military large number of military personnel to tie one either for training purposes for other

purposes, or begin to supply a large number of valves offensive weapons. so the same thing that happens in ukraine, you mean the same thing happened in your credit would've triggered the interaction? well, it's the same thing. i think it's unfortunate disputing was taken in by means to me . we now know, i mean on glove merkel and all long they all saves, you know, mist to it's, it's just fine time before re army ukraine. so chinese learned the lesson there. we will not. we will not accept another mistake, so now to speak, speaking about the turn is position in the ukranian conflict, then i know your claim on neutrality, but uh, in observing what's happening there. i wonder if china at this point would be more interested in the defeat, not so much ukraine,

but the western actions in ukraine. um do you think that would lead to some humbling on the part of the west or do you single the country? the defeat in ukraine may from the west to look for, you know, some compensation elsewhere and for opening event of another war theater. personally, i don't see these to a directory lease. i don't think so. i'm a chinese, what chinese really wanted is to somehow work out a cease fire. i don't believe attorneys have any capability to work out a peace treaty that that's not in the cards. but if they can work together, maybe with back home or some other lead has to have a cease fire salt kidney basic that will be extremely important for china. but do you think the russians would, that would agree to that without accomplishing their strategic goals?

because as you mentioned, the misc uh piece, there was essentially a ruse for allowing ukraine to rearm. is it in russia's interest to, you know, allow for another cease far and the wait for a war a couple of years down the line. what? so my phone, the new building already got new territories. maybe the territory is about, you know, the professor is, wasn't development search results from a b, as he said, it was about natal encroachment constant encroachment. and the trouble is, i don't have that for a while, but, but if you already got the full territories, which means at least you'll have a buffer. so you created an impractical sense. i would see that mr. pony should have interest with this. these 5, it is simon, ski cope may not be willing to do it because he lives on the west and a does not want these a plot line to be cut off. mm hm. uh,

so the really hard part of the facility that's my i personally, i think rushing should be able to do it now. perfect. perfect. so can i ask you about this? uh, a line uh issue because like a couple of european thinkers, including the prominent german sociologist, vulgar and streak express their concern recently that washington is now trying to your p. a nice that's for that is to that is to ship the burden alpha, financial responsibility, the burden of arming the burden of training onto the european union. first and foremost onto germany. do you think that's possible? do you think the, the or things have enough resources to fly that hor, 4 for the americans and support. that's more for the americans. i don't think of that. how efficient? uh what than system or resources, but they have money though you're being so not poor. the countries are rich countries. mr. trump is right to criticize european native members of paint to

little for natal. um, so yes, united states now support the ukraine. eventually, they will validate the duty to european part of nato. that's the american plan. go and the simple i see it is. and finally, if i'm a, uh many in russia to know the china of pointing its own algoy for dealing with the ukrainian and crisis. do you think china can offer anything to ukraine? not to russia because service the russia, your good friend, the terms, but can you offer anything appealing enough to ukraine to make it interested in the so called ecumenical piece? well reconstruction help in reconstruction. remember, china isn't the think investor and major trade fund to with ukraine. uh, they sold the war video credit, it's 1415 percent to a trade would sign up and we invested in, nor was in there the war actually,

you know what that mean? it's a lot of chinese investment, so ukraine's know that and they have interest for the future reconstruction. i think this is one card chinese will play. besides, chinese may be able to persuade the landscape that's a ceasefire. it's not a bad idea. she's fine. yeah. think about the pumpkin joan in korean peninsula, 9053. so used by a hold. it's for almost 70. yes. anyway, despite you don't have a peace treaty, it's a and also so let's get this not to have to recognize the territory taken by russia . ok. if you have a ceasefire agreement, i truly hold the chinese can be a, as active in that, that i'm sure, as real, a survey interest of the russians. they are craniums and pretty much the entire world if they succeed in doing that. right. i hope so too. i hope so too. well, we'd have to leave it there,

but thank you very much for joining us today. thank you. thank you very much, bye and thank you for watching hope to syria. again, was a part of the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the, the release of come to the russian states. never as tight as on one of the most sense community best ingles, all sense and up the, in the 6595 and speed. what else? suppose question about this, even though we will then in the european union,

the kremlin machine for states on russia to day and split the ortiz full neck. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the fitness center for question, did you even closer to the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. i'm funeral about the there are rules, then there are rules. this is how some nato countries approach you grands

membership in the alliance will be us wide, military alliance attempt to invite kids into the club to some kind of back door at the upcoming summit in building this the discuss this issue and more on joined by my guest martin j in marrow cash. he's an award winning journalist and commentator in budapest we cross to george sidney while we use a pod cast, right. the guy goal, which can be found on youtube and the locals are a gentleman cross that goes in effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. i will start out with george in budapest. we have the upcoming nato summit in, in bill us, and there's a flurry of rewards about, you know, what to do for ukraine because in 2000 a, b a there was a promise. the one day will happen. well, that seems like a distant memory, considering what's happened,

particularly over the last 16 months. and we have to always be cautious as a well natal by it. so rules does not allow members to join if they have territorial disputes. well, i think you ukraine is in kind of that category right now, george. but it's something you and i've talked about for a very long time, is that the rules don't mean much to this lines still break their own rules that it sits their own purposes. george, yeah, you're absolutely right. the, the, they will break their own rules. the problem that they have is that they are points by the room, the top. i mean, simmons is saying to them, they don't need no stinking nato membership, you know, in 5 years time, by which time ukraine will have been completely defeated by russia. i need major membership. now i need nato to be fighting on my side now. and may not, doesn't quite know what to do with this arguments. so they're coming up with all of these,

some kind diluted ideas. or maybe we can and go to have some bilateral agreements . so maybe funds or poland can guarantee ukraine. but what's the advantage of bronze to guarantee you know, security, but ukraine, that means fonts will be just on the hook to fight on behalf of the ukraine. well, george will sure we do have the precedence. you know that the, the, the u. k and friends made security guarantees. the poll when did the 9, what did it didn't help the balls and now we have um on this for the rest moose in the foam and nato secretary general. well, now says as a advisor to the ukraine government, he says, well, maybe we can create something called the coalition of the willing. so problem in the voltage stage, you know, they go in and fight on the ukraine's behalf. and of course, what happens then is that if it looks as if lighting 8 in ukraine, russia targets poland and the voltage stage them, they will scream, article 5, optical 5 were under a 3rd major on the other one for all i know for one major,

most ends of the war. well, universe, most of the things that we're old buddies stupid because we don't realize what, what he's proposing. so essentially, they think that they can sneak ukraine through the back door, that there isn't the formal invitation. but in effect, nato was still managed to get into this war on your grades about, well, we have to all remember recipes of the former head of nato. you have to propose something to get that fat paycheck that he's getting from the ukraine, which the americans are subsidizing. ok. martin the, the, they're trying to square a circle right here. again, you know, they have their rules. but, you know, there were some kind of expeditionary force from poland. well, that's a nato country, but as far as russia is concerned, i mean, and there's one thing that i think is very important that is almost never ever mentioned in the discourse, is that, you know, we always hear about article 5, but there is an article one of the treaty and basically,

and i'm just going to use common parlance here, don't start being ours. okay. and this is essentially, it's some are proposing again to break their own rules, which, you know, i wouldn't be surprised when they do because they do it all the time. but yeah, but what is the price for breaking those rules? i mean, you have something now, which is i would say completely unprecedented on a much very much a tony point now in ukraine. more we, what we're seeing now is a group of countries in eastern europe and that recently into crest gold banking. that fist on the table to say, we need know to a membership, you claim, let's not talk about it and months or whenever, let's actually talk about it as a reality. that could happen right now because they see the any way for the, for any development positive on the west and the side for any progress they see. so check the to boo subjects, best talked about. so this was never talked about the to the subject of ukraine shortage of socialism. this is really in my view, what's central to this whole day to debate?

you know, so let's keep things on and on about minutes, equipment. they wouldn't never talk to the subject of the numbers of soldiers that the needs. now, you know, we're, some of us colonels i'll be interviewed on the internet and whoever was informed because of getting the information on the ground rules and from the pentagon bass saying that savanski hasn't lost a 100000. so does that thing is lost? plus the $250000.00, then talking about press gains rounding up men over the age of 48 years old, who go to 3 out lifestyle on the, on the battlefront. so the real issue is men soldiers on the ground. we saw reports recently in the u. k. of 50 s s o, which is already up racing in that you can, that's quite a high number of the special forces to operate behind enemy lines. and i think what we've seen in native now is i've done the bout admission from nate. so and from this group of more gun, her members, one what nature was done, what west police had done in the last 15 months is nowhere near enough. they really

haven't received anything and they've underestimate to every single 100 and underestimate about of money, the number of bits them up, the amount of kids. and they're under estimate as a result of russians now and, and to the 2nd point really is the, um, when we talk about military kit and searches, you know, the estimation, i think is so underestimated that we could be looking at now. i'm tripling or quadrupling the actual ministry support. so these countries are saying they're talking about the possibility of going into ukraine and some of the soldiers into crime, but lower the nature, mondays with them with a month i simply from their own governments. and the russians will just simply accept, obviously, but that some, this is not nature. there's no, the west flights are just jumping right. these are not nato troops of the, this is just the business which really upset because george, i mean,

this is the kind of big beside is the number one of the sudden, miraculously you, um, the mic nato accepts, you know, you propane into the alliance, the rule that will determine the russians know why, what is it called, how in, what way? and then this kind of this, you know, wave, the magic wand in say the 12 components are part of nature. but these troops are not part of neutral, but they're bow a citizen. i mean, this is kind of the, that this is a circle jerk. here george the best, right? and, and the thing is that they are also convinced that russia is afraid of nato. it was, i think we'll look at, let's see, is sneak in poland in the baltic states and whoever wants to join this coalition of learning and russell say, hey, we don't want to hit boland because if we go on bones, going to scream all the go. 5, then more it will with nato, and we are afraid of nato, because nato is much bigger, much stronger than we are. and, you know, we're not ready to go. nuclear and nato,

however is ready to go in euclid. so that, that's the argument that we can essentially bring in additional uh, manpower and rusher will simply not there to hit this ramp and we'll just simply slink away in defeat. that's the argument. but of course, you know, why should russia except this, i mean, and, you know, once, once you're in an, you'll fighting a deal crazy hot in ukraine, russia will hit you and will extend the war. i mean, you know, that was was a fed target, well, polish and basis, bullish, logistics and the supply lines. everything will be affect game and, you know, then it will be up to later what is the volume for the badge to escalate? been using their argument is that, you know, this is a bi lateral, this is a by law. so much you can say, well, we're going to buy laterally bomb q. and they the argument tables in, um, it's a part of the jump it because they're making a huge assumption which is the boots and went through that. and the reason why is

because the track record on page and side has been very much about the escalation. you've never arisen to the bank is always back down because he knows what implications of the terrific dream discuss that means we possibly, i mean is it i can hardly believe what i'm saying. oh, we actually possibly looking at the early stages of a nuclear war. i mean, this is where this whole heading, you know, when you, when you start talking about, could we even imagine the 3 of us a few months ago, talking about troops on the ground in ukraine. you know, when i was talking about british and american soldiers and it had been inevitably arriving the, was recently about low numbers and probably cover. so this is being to, i think, is, makes a lot of sense. and we did have totally flows. is all this waiting and sources, and you can bet your bottom dollar the british s a s numbers. what would rocket would go? right. so because a british of probably being the most gun hope of old western nations, even more than america in terms of what we're actually doing on the ground and lead to so you know, we, we are getting into a very,

very dangerous situation of escalation where we assume the person will not escalate if we escalate, but i don't think we can we can,