but unfortunately it, it won differently for we, it's a very long discussion. why? but i would say 2 reasons. the 2 main reasons at that period. first of all, would you believe that we can base hour, hour and direction. i need to list most of the or entirely from the west, and then we come back to your question about the ideal ej rash. it was absolutely non ideological at that point on the other side, europe and americans came with the idea. yes. interaction and cooperation is, is fantastic. excellent. but before we start, let's, let's you should, uh, you should accept. that's our values. our set of, uh, no beats your set of perceptions is correct and do you need to adopt it? and then we can go up at a pencil and this value base think, and i would say this is ideology. i was quoted, this is ideological approach that has the rail,

the lots because put himself to the opposite. let's start with interest. let's start with our know 10 creeds um the interconnection and then we will see a rush. i will slowly move towards a more or less same uh, same uh, kind of uh, political system on so long. but this is our way. this is our decision. there was some position was not forced, you should change. and then and 2nd, 2nd reasons which unfortunately turn to officer determine, oh, and faithful for our uh, our uh, corporation. in a rush i believed. and which is believed historically and contemporary that the russia, as a great power through additional, great power has the right to have a sphere of influence to have us here. what are its interests are being respected? the some would say they're mutually exclusive. those do, but uh and also catherine. the great isn't here to talk about the fact that she too

wanted to move it is also gonna be at westwards. give me. yeah, i can't speak about specifics then right now. so the position we're in, it's clear i'm putting your into aside when i return to them is i can add to the blinking against us these 5. i mean, did it surprise you, how far they going to go to the end? it was a bar, as johnson sent to destroy the chinese piece plan for ukraine being sent to the lens. again saying look, this is a fight to the end regardless of nuclear weapon use. politically. i think that unfortunately, just now i have no chance for any kind of piece of discussions, beat open discussions or even even discussions because we are in the middle of a, an extremely cv or fierce battle. yes,

indeed, both sides perceive it as exist. angel on the russian side, if you ask anybody in the ruling group or even very many else citizens, ordinary citizens, they would say that after what happens and after what is happening now. uh, the only goal of the west and ukraine is a new samantha in western hines. the only goal is to destroy russia is a great state ridge bower, completely. so in a way that the dresser will never recover. and this is the believe here on the other side that seeing for united states, this is a very, actually really live on the and, and maybe a correct assessment that the, if you grade will be defeated, or at least if russia will achieve significant goals there. that will be

a very serious blow, joe, us, i mean, nation in the world and process threats which we see already now that are the gone through start to look around and going to accept to us. so the primacy anymore. this process will be kind of like like, uh, like a levine. so that's what i, what i think is the situation now, which means that there is no compromise, one side should when and this is the situation right now. feel the kind of us stop you, the more from the editor in chief of rusher and global affairs, and chairman of the presidium of the russian council on foreign and defense policy . after this break, the

show they just don't have to shape house because the application and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will support, we choose to look for common ground, the the watching wires and why in this country. what if i give birth? plenty of the store in this they should have been a short order for now. i'm not going to say last name, scare me. and when i am at your desktop session i am no let's just sean. your just is when you bought

a new born. you said almost in the, the, the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the editor in chief of russia in global affairs, your door. luciano will, the speed of the multi polarity, of course, is a major issue. russia obviously wanted, quicker, sooner rather than later, you were talking about what some might see is fusions early. and i even g a, this is optimism, is russia and russian. they lead to game making the same mistake because the other one is being re elected. what does he do send to like his troops to costco, to reinforce nato in against the population that we've seen? we've seen him presumably making efforts to have sweden back in nature. so be,

is that inside the router, which, what ready just had that munition to the lensky in the, in the boat from the balkans, a lula neutral saudi arabia neutral, avowedly why not all these different powers? okay. they're not supporting the western europe and the united states. the minority of nations is the envoys by population loaded at the un general assembly. but is there a not able to hear about the speed of the bricks? hedge a monic power us? uh no, i wouldn't call it and i have it. yeah. and more than that. so you say, rick, send you money, power. you know, that's, that's the very western view that if one hedge him on the, is being the, the, the, the post from the position of them and now they have g mon should come multiple that has a bunch of power them. yeah. but multiple, available as a morning powers,

not the gym. and so you know that this, this is the question and more than that, it's my personal view. i don't really represent anybody here, but i think that even multiple are a to, in the sense which we saw it before. and that was a to, for the to put it bluntly. how did we imagine multi polarity is a then you have a single, 15 years ago when we expired that something, blanca european constitutes a for scope of concert. the powers. imagine essentially not why had you mon, but say 3 or 46 countries. i'm not sure that you had on our level that because of what followed. that was level one and we'll do it to exist. exactly, exactly. that's what i say. what the, what i'm trying to say that we imagine multi polarity because we, we have, we have no other other power or low. so we imagines like this. but what do we see now is actually a multi polarity in the sense that he g, money or dummy nation is not available anymore. even the united states understand

that. and then we have a more and more players, more and more countries which has something to see. some of them are very big, like china, like russia, like india. some of them are uh, less the middle sized countries like sort of key we shall mention, like saudi arabia. some of them are very tiny countries like a, for instance, cats are. but old, those countries, they have certain influence on what is going on in the world. this absolutely new situation. we, we couldn't imagine say 2025 still 3 years ago. that's that it comes to the insides of cuts are, would be, uh, should be, uh, should be regarded as a player. and then this is what is coming. and in this, in this big picture, what you said about survey about total care about other countries. that's a no,

that's a new normal. it's because every country is trying to survive and every country is trying to pursue its own national interest. and this is normal. rationally, it's trying to do that. but everybody else as well, what we, what we is, what we are leaving. i mean this, the rules based order. and so that this is a situation when everybody should do what is, has being prescribed by somebody. now it's solar and this, this is in your situation. now, turkey, it is sending people to cost or tomorrow to get is a help inc. russia to, to settle some very important issues the day after tomorrow. turkey works with, i don't know whom with the for arms about something that's, that's a normal thing, you know, and this is actually what we saw in the history of international relations for 4

centuries. so the theory, the after the 2nd world war was actually an exemption, not the room as well, site ground, shared course, who invented that hedge a monic government, the global working class was the instrument. so that's kind of multi polar. but where is the well, your viewing, which because ironically is the kind the world pronounced from, from the us state department. but clearly, i think anyone in the world will realize that that was a, that's a, that's a p r stunt that the, the us use. but the point is that why you want this lovely will do it much. the recess of nations in moscow in saint petersburg as a drone attack on the kremlin blink and talking about a strategic failure for russia. as i don't even know whether russia even understands that they certainly have a 1340 can on the board with finland to guard against at nato, sheffield. and of course, as, as to nature, the other day, i mean,

was rush or even guarding the know and stream from attack. that's why the single mainstream media in nature, nations talked about imminent demise of russia. you know, the, the period, the time when uh when, when we leave. now that's an absolute to exceptional moment in history. okay. not exceptional. such moments happen. but not so no, so frequently. so no, it's not each generation leaves through something like this. when the whole world system is drifting apart and changing, transforming into something completely different in this regard, changes to they are bigger then changes. so 2 plus years ago and community as a collapse because uh bipolar system disappeared. but is the additional framework of international relations. the,

the remainder of the time and survived on to you until recently. now it is collapsing to and if we look through this lance, through the, through or through to this prison, then of course uh such kind of changes cannot be easy. cannot be uh quick as cannot be uh, painless. so why, why does the ross shops we prepare for such kind of scale? you know, uh, what do we, uh, predict and imagine this kind of uh, uh, collapse. so the previous set up a relationship? no, oh uh, once they told you it was disappointed without things have gone. yes, put 14. is it full edition how he can, how he can say to the whole public that he was disappointed. he is a, he's a leader of the nation. he has no rights to, to be disappoint. that's excellent. so the, i, i, it's easier for, for me, i can,

i can analyze so slightly more openly. so, and you're not, well, you, you ask, and you, you quote, this assessment that the russia isn't in decline. and the mice at the end of the day, again, we started with the saying that we are now at war. i mean, big war, high bridge or whatever, how you call it the proxy war. but this is a big war between the russia and the west. uh, and this war, fortunately is not yet, is not the direct collision. but we are moving towards the unfortunately, and easily teasing more. why should we expect is to move a continuation of the things which we go to go to use to. of course, it's impossible. so the problem with me, for example, and my colleagues a year and

a half ago, when basically when almost all of us failed to predict what was coming was very, very, very simple. we, we underestimate that the scale of changes would stop in the world, not just between the russian. ukraine will rush into united states. this is, it was process we on the risk and method that, and that's why it'd be cool. no, beginning of the special military operation costs as by surprise. now we understand this scale, and unfortunately we need to, we need to accept this scale will be extremely traumatic for all of us. yeah, presumably it's not cold war by the rest of the government in special military operations, because if the russians really wanted to take your grand tomorrow, they'd use that croft and mass casualties and that would be a war let's get onto west and your ever then because if i was starting use it for drinking the cool district and things a strategic plan, even roger is the you from your vantage point and you talk to ceo's,

i've seen you with, well, the st. petersburg is coming up. you've spoken to all these. what's available, as far as you can see, is that you bankrupting itself a germany now in recession. we don't know how much poverty we'll kill people in western europe because jeremy's, the powerhouse or of the economy in europe let alone now many died because of node stream because of the cold and the higher energy prices and the fluctuate energy prices in your so i'm not qualified to, to assess the economic pool. this is a sofa germany or other european countries. so i thing that uh, actually we hear in the russia overestimated or underestimate that the resilience of european nickel on them is in the same way as the west underestimate that the reserves are brush nickel and, but what is important? i think it's, it's not my view is the view of mr. burrell, for example, who said the in a speech half a year ago or so, talking to the,

to europe and diplomats, i the representative. so if you going to be in union will wipe, you said very clearly that to our, our prosperity. european prosperity was based on 2 sources, cheap russian energy and cheap chinese labor. and that was a very successful model for you or for the gates of the coming back to, to maybe 50 is or 6 to simply 6 isn't. 7th is not always solar. you said. and that means that europe will need a completely new economic model. and this economic model will not be based on all those advantages i've had before. a russian european energy relationship was fantastically good for both sides. unbelievably good. just very, very briefly. what is the st. petersburg the international?

because i'll make for them because globally, i don't think joseph morals is invited this year. what is of to starting from last year? it is more uh, in any word looking is more reactive uh towards domestic development. despite this fact, uh, there are some, uh, relatively many for, and guess mostly from so called friendly countries. non europe known us. but of course, for russia, as for the you, for your opinions that's time to talk to, olivia says they cannot make model and model of economic development. and i know the, the, or your moderating some of the important discussions they have fewer. thank you. thank you very much. that's it for the show will be back on saturday with a brand new episode with a deal. then you can keep in touch my role as social media, give it to not sense that in your country. and how do i general going underground tv on mobile dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground seas as to

the the acceptance. and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new sho . seriously. why watch something that's so different opinions that he won't get anywhere else. what could i please or do you have the state department c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you there are rules, then there are ways. so some nato countries approaching grains membership in the

alliance will the us like military alliance with tim to invite to the club to some kind of back door. at the upcoming summit, the the former italian prime minister silvio berlusconi dies at the age of $86.00 and milan . the giant of battalion politics passed away after being hospitalized last friday . from here in belgrade, one of the assistance points for the displays, people who have come from the surrounding villages that were recently attacked by ukrainian artillery. as over 60000, people are evacuated from western russian territories under relentlessly printing and artillery. fire are seen as it's a refugee camp in the boat, dr. region. when i left that as well, it was ready to collapse. we would have take,

get it over. we would have got doing matter. well, it would have been right next to our donald trump openly claims the u. s. should have taken venezuelan oil by force back in 2019. as the u. s. claimed it suited for venezuelan freedom and democracy at the time the coming to live from the russian capital. this is archie international. i'm rachel evans here with the top stories of the our welcome to the program. former italian prime minister silvio berlusconi has passed away in a milan hospital at the age of 86, russia as president vladimir putin expressed his condolences. notice there's a late prime minister will be remembered as a friend of moscow. a little lead to he was a politician of a european, or one might say, global scale. there are few such people in the international arena now. he was

a great friend of our nation and did a lot to establish business and friendly relations between russia and the european states. he was an unusual person for a politician because he was very sincere and open. i want to express my sincere regret and condolences to the tale and people and all the relatives of mister berlusconi who insert them for the scone was admitted to the hospital last week. after serious health concerns. he is remembered as the longest survey prime minister of italy since the 2nd world war. let's take a look back at his legacy. born and fascist. it's lee in 1936. silver versus scone said that he remembered the horrors of war from a young age. perhaps that is what serve this is drive to become not only mediates high, coon, one of the richest men in italy, but also the longest serving its highland prime minister after world war 2. italy

is the country i love. here i have my roots, my hopes, my horizons here, i learned my job as a mentor for premier or from my father and from life here i learned the passion for freedom. i tell you that we can i tell you that we must build together for us and for our children, a new italian miracle, a multi billionaire, a heading, a european government. suppose also a 1st, but that's not all. he also owns one of the most famous football clubs in the world ac milan for 30 years. his other passion was singing, and not many people know that he actually co rhodes the teams and some oddly enough, he named his conservative party for say, talia. which means go actually after trans used by ac, milan fence and then of mentality to always last. the last thing, impression rights. charming, controversial. humorous, and never afraid to speak his mind. as he said, lucy, don't see you on

a case. yeah. mike is again, like, is he gonna say say that one of the rooms that too, but i have obama movie supposed to be mean? and so it gives me the name on, on the says his level of women was perhaps, as the tories as his law for vladimir putin much was written about their so called romance over the decades in western mainstream media. and he always hoped that he could bring washington into the mix when i was in government in 2001 i said publicly that i wanted to end the cold war, which had been going on for 50 years and was a terrible anguish. i was successful because here in rome, in 2002, i convinced george bush and vladimir putin using all my talents of friendly relations to ends of the cold war. that doesn't last long as we know, but the friendship between puts in a better school need one from strength to strength. some said it was due to mutual

business interests, but it seemed to go far beyond that. here there were and saw dania when they, it's highly liter hosted boots in the at his villa in 2008. and this system and claim me in 2015, a controversial trip for western politician. as it came after. local residents voted overwhelmingly to reunify with russia. 87 percent of crime in citizens voted 93 percent devoted to seed from ukraine voted to be in a ton. them is republic voted to become parts of the russian federation. you should see the love, the gratitude and the friendliness that welcome to pretend that didn't go down well with western politicians, of course, but silvio berlusconi was not a man who cared about what other thoughts. and he never shied away from telling it like it is. he understood russia's points of view and slammed the wes, we're promoting the conflict and ukraine just this february. he was purch and

washington to come to the senses and start watching and keith, to cut off the weapon supplies in order to achieve an immediate cease fire. i would never have gone talking to zalinski because we're witnessing the devastation of his country and the slaughter of its soldiers and civilians. so i judge very, very negatively the behavior of this gentleman. berlusconi is ridiculous accusations against the ukrainian president are an attempt to kiss pollutants hands which are covered in blood up to the elbows. the portion was pushed by the russian population by his party, by his ministers to an event, this special operation. the plan was for russian troops to enter in a week to replace the landscape government with a government of decent people. this is a man who entered politics in the early ninety's and managed to serve 3 terms, despite being constantly charged with something that seems mainly tax evasion of fraud. most charges were dismissed,

but he was eventually convicted of the tax fraud in 2014 and was even banned from running for office. as soon as the band was listed in 2018 however, he won a seats in the european parliament the following year, and he returns to the country senate federal school he was never wants to give up or stay away. i am the jesus christ of politics. i am a patient to victim. i put up with everyone i sacrificed myself for everyone. i have very good personal relations with mister, but a scrutiny. i think that he's one of the greatest european politicians of today, despite his stablished amount of with women as a politician, he is of course, one of the last mohicans of europe in politics. the passing of silvio berlusconi is a great loss, not only for its sleep and european politics, but also for russia, as who was one of very few people in europe, who not only respected russia's points of view,

but was also trying to get others to understand. it truly is the end of any era. earlier my colleague peter scott discussed the legacy of silvio berlusconi with his former assistant, daria over volta, who is also the author of trooper lewis scone, a man businessman, politician, a as a one that has been a show for the here. even people, even the buyer gets a deep one of the houses. i think that everybody who realizes it, everybody realized that he was a and a he is being a great spot to all the details you and you will be in the use as a man. he was a very pleasant person to, to remain with it. it was liking it to be maurice because he was a very sympathetic to have ready for the and the ones that are expecting every body i have been working with. they met for many years, even before 46. and the i do not remember any moment in which it

e aggress this i'm a quarter of or a dose of that was not doing well. your job. it was always trying to understand a, to correct the it was very kind. is it but a dish? and i pretty decides the many times a month for some aspect to all the in chatham that 40 dixon. but i think that the in the what the extension of the international politic is closer. and he has been the really perfect anytime he is being a bride. mean is that will be to, there's no secrets, obviously that's a silvio. berlusconi was, was good friends with the russian president vladimir putin. they had a great personal friendship. why do you think that's so close? was it purely political or business? oh, is that something deeper between them as well? i think that the most lead was really a human relationship. a human human, a friendship between digital, i never had the opportunity of you're looking at them together, but the, anytime aids happened to me too, so with the mode or with i,

those are about to their relationships. and i was aware that the data friendship was a really a human, a csc of friendship. besides that, for sure. also for the 40 degrees, whom they found many things seemed we should, they were agreeing. it may be something good and we should, they were not the, on the present, that green by the i think that the, the human aspect so was, are the most important in their relationship, even before to 46 the, the city of done that cause once again come under you for any and shelling. according to reports keeps forces sheldon area near a railway station killing a 20 year old woman and injuring her 2 year old childs information. another casualties has not yet been released. the western russian region of belgrade has also seen at least 12 artillery shells fired by ukrainian horses this weekend

according.