to bank on that, i think now the analogy if it's turning now to, you know, there are many american mainstream journalists now who are actually being, it's admit, that the russia is stuck now to is no longer relevant if it ever was, you know, and that ukraine is taking huge losses on the battlefield and if we all going to make any difference in ukraine, you know, we, we need to do something much, much, much bigger on a much bigger scale. and i think that's really what nature is, is, is negotiating and working out now with its, with it some hawks on the eastern side of europe and his stubs in terms of, from some germany who don't want escalation. they don't want to. ready a real war with the nature of a tool, you know, the language is ton into tactical strikes. that's what i'm hearing. a lot tactical strikes was very, very dangerous. you know, i mean, and where does that? what does that take binding leading out to, to the elections? you know, as you can explain this to, to votes is when the that they, the economy in america is going to stop tunnel. the explosive pointing this out. the you know, binds, got quite good dates as to the 6 of them. i'm only flesh when inflation is just one

aspect of an economy. there are many, many other faxes where, you know, it's looking as though the americans cloudfront. obviously around the world is slowly in the end, in a demise. you know, and i'm going to, the election is bite. and then i have to stand by these bo bellicose groundwater statements that is, people made at the beginning, you know, we need to teach the rest of the lessons. we need to get them. so ha, the, don't ever do this again in ukraine or other countries. you know how you get out the impact that how you back people alpha very, very difficult. so the wrench of the we always talk about in the show is turning in one direction only. and you know, as crazy as much as it sounds. you know, we are looking now attached to strikes. we are looking now. yeah, definitely. it's a choice of nato's to make jo george about 45 seconds before we go to the break. from the russian perspective, they are at war with nato. so i mean, i don't know what nature, what kind of game they're playing in their head. they're not making any leper tags . ok. i mean people, they're, they're not just you claiming intense. okay,

so i mean, again, this is just kind of a discursive playground that the nato is blaine 30 seconds is probably going to be exactly. i mean, if the tyrants has failed to deter, made so from essentially getting involved in the war against russia, using ukraine is a proxy to 5 russia then, by the same token, degeren's will fail to, to russia in striking nature. i mean, a basic original thing is like, what do we have to lose? nato is already waging a war against us. but, you know, basically all bets are off. yeah, this is a position. actually, we should, we should never get to the point. what do we have to lose? that is the place we cannot go. ok, gentleman, interesting here we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue. our discussion on nato said was already the

russian states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community. most all sense i'm at the, in the $65.00 with the keys $195.00 and speed. the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full neck. even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services for the question, did you say they requested the

the question of the nuclear love? she couldn't do it for muscles. if you look on the initial significant dealer post on the d, almost getting used to put value when you, when you do origin. but y'all test done the newest frame on the belief system. so good lou, do what i see these, the buses, the little gear limitations, those do some uh, tutorials on both the

the local net across software. all things are considered non funeral. now this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. the

. okay, let's go back to martin america's, one of the interesting things. the dilemma is one of the dilemma is the nato has, it is always very stubbornly and probably in eric and believes that, you know, we're going to go wherever we want to go. and, you know, they the hell with the russians. okay. well, they've had a brick wall. okay. of course you know, sweden and finland, that is on the agenda. of course they want to get him to pores country in europe, moldova, god knows why whatever. okay. but they've hit a brick wall with, with ukraine. and if anyone has been paying attention, this is a critical, pivotal point for russia, but no under no circumstances. whatever form ukraine is. they will not be a member of nato. and the nato is kind of duck itself into a trap right here, because someone is saying no to nature and they're not used to it more. yeah. and um, you know, i think it's what i worry about another. now it's if there's tons to, to, to the, to this level now where we're actually discussing the possibility of any of these

countries from eastern europe coming in. i'm, you know, let's, let's look at it from a different perspective. i see i'm in a quite negative way, i think to this whole, you know, we're looking at a new data now which is divided. yes. it's like a can speak nature, you know, and we never done that before. like everything that night just um and you kind before, you know, you look and said, you know, this is not libya, this is not syria, this is the russian. so if i see you, there is a huge display a month. and i think what's happening now with these meetings, you know, with nights or leaders, i'm was so lensky becoming more and more aggressive. you know, i think we're reaching a point of admission that the approach as it was and it's been muscle, be underfunded. probably when we talk about $12030000000000.00 of us money going into the. ready ukraine machine probably that was nowhere near enough. probably you'd have to look at $34.00 or 5 times that to have the kind of impact of ukrainians and the want. because i told me about penetrating that line and you know, no one has the secret. no one has the this of the spring offensive has become

a summer offensive. you know, a, i don't, i don't know how you, you find 2 or 340-0000 soldiers with house. the only one. let's just the point georgia, me, you're in hungry. i mean, i how many, you know, 100 and you're not a government official. so i'm just gonna ask your opinion, but i'm how many i'm just gonna join up for that project going into eclipse. honey . i kind of remember history that, you know, last time you home, gary and troops were in the part of the world that didn't work out too well. so then george, oh, that's a good point. and i, so that's like a book the point that uh, you know, victor or bon emphasizes hungry, got sucked into world war 2 hungry, took part in the invasion of the soviet union as an ally of pip list and got the club bed off the world war 2, and i threw in your, you know, the you, you 40 is the comment is on the, that's what you do. you know, if you start the war and you lose the war, you get club. and i mean,

that's an inevitability and it is, it's something that's i think it before, but the next clip of this be, it is an interesting issue though that was what made it was now done is gone oil and was the, let's get they are going to make some kind of a commitment. those are landscape. i mean, i don't think the villainous is just go to the george or your keys in us. ok, i'm going to buy. what are you thinking? it's going to be? well, i think that there's probably going to be something along the lines of the nuisance bloodline for coalition of the willing. i mean, if you know people want to help you brain, go, go right ahead and try and help you with the problem is that now that the major has made an existing, shall map for it. so it comp just back away because it backs away. it's essentially admitting we lost. yeah, we didn't just lose. i mean we, we can lose that. i've got, is non, okay, we learn, you know, bunch of go to those. you know, that's fine. okay. we love this on the if the end of nato,

which site exactly will also russia, this isn't, you know, a bet. no. wow, you know, this is the people that we've been hazing for years and years. it really no decade . we lost democracies, have lost. i mean, you know, the great divide do with democracy is the most offices that's gone. we'll talk, this is a one major kind of full to do that then that when they don't just have to escalate, i mean, there's just, there's no way to back away because there isn't anyone in nato with it, with his actual vicar or about who suggests things like this is, this is not major, just have to sit down, you know, forget all this, all the and just work some, something pragmatic out with russia just as we used to work something pragmatic off with the soviet union. but there's no one of the major prepared to do it. so they all in and i don't see any uh, you know, willingness on how nato is bought. do a back down. well, we back to the more the roses. i mean for democracy. i mean, i thought this was awful about security, okay. that has to discursive mistake. martin, the west is me,

is to try to equate the to they have nothing to do with one another. and if you look at the rushes past year, it is all about it. security, it is never about politics in that sense. more. yeah, i think it's just about the last couple of weeks i've been has been a very top here is of the media and coming these events, you know, and i wonder how much media's played the kind of role is played in contributing to this, this capital moment the way with this, you know, you know this night so the summit is asking to produce some sort of in my view, it will, it will offers and let's get some sort of deal which was involved more met, she hardware, but a lot, lot more unintelligent sharing the parts and then i understand, i mean again, this is called the fog of war and media in propaganda. but i mean this, the, the, the warehouses are empty. okay. they're, they're ordering things to be the not to ship to the main issue is a big problem. yeah,

i know it may well be that there might be collect to cool around the world phones, america's friends, to look at the 2nd rates on the 3rd, 2nd, or 3rd generation equipment. and, you know, russian types of collection agencies in morocco for example. um that that may will be part of it. but i think, you know, what's worrying is, is it, although i am see a very, very slight shift from the narrative in america. you know, american gentleman is starting to pointing a finger on us, you know, slightly a so big questions. you know, we still have a very, very, a very unusual and we'd like to put you on the ground, which is really not helping. i mean, it's absolutely incredible the protocol since 1st video on twitter. let's take a blue absolutely. why is explicit? i'm not a fan of 10000. so why does expire? because yeah, unless i'm not asking those really, really basic questions or this guy is asking you, we talked about the cobra, them, you know, i mean, well, i would rather just himself, you know, is there something else that did the trans actually take pot shots of the time

a couple of months earlier. yes. the one who was reported on this. why is that? been ever us as a narrative now where, you know, every media outlet in britain, america is especially when the thing that it rushes up to don't do. we don't want to look at anything else. the russians did it, you know, but what i think is happening is that with the nicest summit with the time attack, i think, and james cleverly statement a couple weeks ago that the cranes have every right to hit russia within russia. i think what's happening is we aren't being softened up well being prepared for a new way, a new policy to allow us to. ready or in ukraine and i think and even worse, of course, people are going to vote on this george, right? this is, this is a popular war in, in the past. or is it a leak driven? explain what's going well as a very good web because because any time when the war implicitly is an issue of the voters vote against that, there is no popular mandate anywhere full this wall. and there is

a reason why the alternative to deutschland potty is doing well and jeremy right of, you know, the germans of very, very, very wary of voting for any ranking. bought me this probably is obviously nothing to do with knots isn't more any real, but the moment is that all this is a file, right, filed it as a nationalized body. german is a very wary of this. nonetheless, essentially the interesting georgia that it takes russia, it was before the soviet union, you know, to make people, you know, they would, that they would, um, would it be injected into german politics? and now we, you know, it's fighting russia and now the right is being, you know, they're seeming, you know, these people are going to be, are, say, it's interesting how it's kind of ships around it. but it's always, it's the point, russia, yes that's, i've tried so many of the ones who of the most family goes about russia in germany is alina bad luck? i mean it's, it's, it's the last, i mean, it's that the, the greens are absolutely insane. as all greens generally throughout your body,

this is all very much of, you know, the, a project, all the left. i mean, the ones who somehow i've identified russia as the enemy and that, that can be no backing. now. let's just not prevent just like a rush as the enemy, but you know, we don't want to destroy the world. i, because if you're already, yeah, russia is the enemy and we're ready to go all the way we're we're, you know, it's like um, police trust. yes. i'm ready to press the button out loud. even idea, you know, it was specify what are the conditions under which you're the press the button and you have an a lead, a bed, a box, a pass that changes position 360 bucks the people were dealing with. you're smart and be honest with more seriously, very interesting use. you said, you know, there might be a call for american allies with this. what, 800 bases around the world, you know, maybe pony. uh, um, some additional equipment besides a very interesting message to the global south, particularly china is that, oh, you know, they, you know, it's

a country like ukraine that can stop the west, you know, and it's hills. i mean, that's a very interesting message. you're gonna have to sort of scrounging around. so the, the, that with the nato is it is not what we were told. okay. and it's, 1st of all, it's divided and it's pretty short on supplies because i've always said, if russia was such a danger to nature countries, why didn't they spend more money on defense? they didn't learn because they never imagined spinning in a conflict like that, which was, which was true or else the result is over such a long period. you know, the miscalculation at the beginning of this conflict was absolutely breathtaking. i think we're seeing that again now. i think this idea that now we think about troops into the country is, is, uh, these west, some of these have got together and the kids themselves are, if we do this next on, if she goes out for could that be then the, the capitalist switch jump starts a new series of diplomacy from russell from china that could well possibly be part

of it. the other thing about backing out which george mentioned is that there is a timeline to this. and the timeline is 2020 full us selections. so that can be a point where the west can back out because if america says if it is bite and says 2 months before school's, that some okay, we're going to pull out of your brain and i'm going to spend a $120000000000.00. now i'm paula to which i think is what trump or a trump like couch it will probably do that would be the stump of the pool. you know, at some point, you know, everything's off all bets are off. so i think they, these are certain factors that we have to look at, but, you know, there's so much risk, so much experimentation, you know, don't bring less trusting. so if it got say, please, you know, i think there's enough muff, it's already sitting around the kitchen table of trying to work out in the future careers and the next move. you know, i'm times on the show that says in all martin, this is all about careers. you know, i mean it's, uh, it's going to be the next head of natal. i may be from the u. k. know, with the,

we need a woman from scandinavia. so what does this have to do with security? i keep asking that unfortunately, gentleman, this is not a pod gas, this is a program, and we run out of time on a thing, my guess. in budapest and america, shall we think of us. we're watching us here. at our d. c. next time, remember across that means the show they just don't have to safe house and engagement trails. when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look so common ground the the

rolling of the us over to the board. you know cranium. doria, so name. yeah. i did, she ship a duck lean. i'd ship for the control room for 2 of us. so we fixed you get to move on to protect the system really being you have enough people not to say websites and stuff. i'm assuming, yeah, well we did the cloud shows actually it's streams of dark news, but i'll let you drive both on the on there. okay. excuse. that's all there is to motivate my subway, but just to do you still know? sadly, if she ever leaves get us, but the shipper is still good for a lift or slip that came over to them. i need deals says that you are in school, so that's the only each of them or where are you not to buy these folks?

good telphone feel free to shoot. busy nestle take a picture of, i'll go with the straight face of the former italian prime minister silvio berlusconi dies at the age of 86 in milan. the giant of battalion politics passed away after being hospitalized last friday. i'm here in belgrade, one of the assistance points for the displays. people who have come from to surround the villages that were recently attacked while ukrainian artillery, as over 60000 people are evacuated from western russian territories under relentless to print in artillery fire. our cheeks is a refugee camp and the baltimore odd region. when i left that as well, it was ready to laps. we would have to take it up. we would have got all that oil

would have been right next to the donald trump openly claims the u. s should have taken venezuelan oil by force back in 2019. as the u. s. claimed it stood for venezuelan freedom and democracy at the time the coming to live from the russian capital. this is archie international. i'm rachel evans here with the top stories of the our welcome to the program. former italian prime minister silvio berlusconi has passed away in milan in the hospital there at the age of 86 rushes, president vladimir fruit and expressed his condolences. no day that the late prime minister will be remembered as a friend of moscow. it moved by lead to she was a politician of the european or what might say global scale. there are few such

people in the international arena now. she was a great friend of our nation and did a lot to establish business and friendly relations between russia and the european states. he was an unusual person for a politician because he was very sincere and open. i want to express my sincere regret and condolences to the tale and people and all the relatives of mister berlusconi who insult them for at least scone was admitted to the hospital last week over serious health concerns. he is the longest survey prime minister of italy since world war 2. let's take a look back at his legacy. born and fascist. it's lee in 1936. sylvia versus connie said that he remembered the horrors of war from a young age. perhaps that is what serve this is drive to become not only media tie kuhn, one of the richest men in italy, but also the longest serving. it's holly and prime minister after world war 2 in

italy use the country. i love here, i have my roots, my hopes, my horizons here, i learned my job as an end for premier or from my father and from life here i learned the passion for freedom. i tell you that we can, i tell you that we must build together for us and for our children, a new italian miracle multibillion. there are heading a european government. suppose also a 1st, but that's not all. he also owns one of the most famous football clubs in the world ac milan for 30 years. his other passion was singing, and not many people know that he actually cove rhodes, the teams, and some oddly enough, he named his conservative party for se talia, which means go actually after trans used by ac, milan funds, a man of many talents who always left a lasting impression, writes charming, controversial humorous, and never afraid to speak his mind. as he said, lucy,

don't c or a k c cam. i guess he can like. is he gonna say say that one of the rooms out to back obama? movie supposed to be mean instead of using the says in his level of women was perhaps as the tories as his law for vladimir putin much was written about their so called romance over the decades in western mainstream media . and he always hoped that he could bring washington into the mix when i was in governments in 2001 i said publicly that i wanted to end the cold war, which had been going on for 50 years and was a terrible anguish. i was successful because here in rome, in 2002, i convinced george bush and vladimir putin using all my talents of friendly relations to ends of the cold war. that doesn't last long as we know, but the friendship between pollutant and better las go only one from strength to

strength. some said it was due to mutual business interests, but it seemed to go far beyond that. here there were and sorry dania when they it's highland leader hosted boots in the, at his villa in 2008. and this system and claim me in 2015, a controversial trip for west san politician. as it came after. local residents voted overwhelmingly to reunify with russia. 87 percent of crime in citizens voted 93 percent voted to seed from ukraine, voted to b. and a ton of miss republic voted to become parts of the russian federation. you should see the love, the gratitude and the friendliness that welcome to pretend that didn't go down well with western politicians, of course, but silvio berlusconi was not a man who cared about what others thoughts. and he never shied away from telling it like it is. he understood russia's points of view and slammed the wes, we're promoting the conflict and ukraine just this february. she was purch and

washington to come to the senses and start threatening keith to cut off the weapon supplies in order to achieve an immediate cease fire. i would never have gone talking to the landscape because we're witnessing the devastation of his country and the slaughter of its soldiers and civilians. so i judge very, very negatively the behavior of this gentleman. berlusconi is ridiculous accusations against the ukrainian president are an attempt to kiss pollutants hands which are covered in blood up to the elbows. a portion was pushed by the russian population by his party, by his ministers to an event. this special operation plan was for russian troops to enter in a week to replace the landscape of government with a government of decent people. this is a man who entered politics in the early ninety's and managed to serve 3 terms, despite being constantly charged with something that seems mainly tax evasion of fraud to most charges were dismissed,

but he was eventually convicted of the tax fraud in 2014 and was even banned from running for office. as soon as the band was lifted in 2018 however, he went to seats in the european parliament the following year. and he would turn to the country senate federalist school. he was never wants to give up or stay away . i am the jesus christ of politics. i am a patient, the victim. i put up with everyone. i sacrifice myself for everyone. i have very good personal relations with mister, but a scrutiny. i think that he's one of the greatest european politicians of today, despite his stablished manner with women as a politician, he is of course, one of the last mohicans of europe in politics. the passing of silvio berlusconi is a great loss not only for its sleep and european politics, but also for russia, as he was one of very few people in europe who not only respected process points of

view, but was also trying to get others to understand that it truly is the end of any era . earlier, my colleague peter scott discussed the legacy of silvio berlusconi with his former assistant daria over volta, who is also the author of trooper lo scone, a man business man, politician. as the one that has been in the shop the here, given the people, the buyer gets a beep. one of the houses. i think that everybody realizes that everybody realize that the he was a and a he is being a great part of the whole. but he tells you and you will be on the used as a man, he was a bit a pleasant person to, to remain with it. it was like, you can get to be maurice because he was a very sympathetic to every body and the ones that are expecting every body i have been working with. they meant for many of us, even before police except and i do not remember any moment in which it

e aggress the sum grew up or a dose of that uh was not doing well his job. he was always trying to understand that to correct the it was very kind as implementation. i could, he decides the many times a month for some us back to all the in chatham that 40 dixon. but i think that the in the what the extension of the international politic is glosser and he has been a really perfect anytime he has been a bride. mean is that will be to, of course, no secrets. obviously that's a silvio. berlusconi was, was good friends with the russian president vladimir putin. they had a great personal friendship. why do you think that's so close? was it purely political or business, or was it something deeper between them? a well, i think that the most lead was really a human relationship. a human human, the friendship between digital, i never had the opportunity of you're looking at them together, but the,

anytime aids happened to me too. so with the mode or with i those about and they are relationships and i was aware that the data friendship was a really a human, a c c, a friendship. besides that, the for sure. also for the 40 degrees on they filed many things seen. we should, they were agreeing, it may be something good and we should, they were not the under present that green by the i think that the, the human aspect so was, are the most important in their relationship. even before the 46, the one woman was killed and her child wounded as a result of ukrainian showing in the city of donuts. according to reports, cubes forces shows an area near broadway station, killing a 20 year old mother and injuring her to her old child. the showing came from anita standard rocket launcher system, and dismissal fragments are now being analyzed by the russian investigative committee. information on other casualties have.