much bigger on a much bigger scale and i think that's really what nato is, is, is negotiating and what you know now when it's, when it's um hawks, on the eastern side of europe and it stops in terms of from germany who don't want escalation. they didn't want to. ready a real war with nature to, you know, the language is ton into tactical strikes. that's what i'm hearing a lot tactical strikes. it's very, very dangerous. you know, i mean, and where does that, what does that take binding leading out to, to the elections. you know, tells you going to explain this to, to votes is when the that the, the economy in america is going to stop tunnel. the expos of pointing this out to, you know, binds, got quite good. takes us to the 6 of them. i'm only flesh when inflation is just one aspect of an economy. there are many, many of the facts is where, you know, it's looking as though the americans cloud. so navigate around the world is slowly in the end, in a demise. you know, and i'm going to, the election is bite and then i have to stand by these is both bellicose. groundwater statement is that is people made at the beginning, you know, we need to teach the rest of the lessons. we need to get them so hard,

but they'll never do this again in ukraine or other countries. you know how you get out the impact that how you back pedal alpha very, very difficult. so the wrench that we always talk about on the show is turning in one direction only, and you know, as crazy as not as it sounds. now we are looking now attached to the stories we are looking now. the new place. certainly, it's a choice of nato's to make judge about 45 seconds before we go to the break. but from the russian perspective, they are at war with nato. so, i mean, i don't know what nature, what kind of game they're playing in their head. they're not making, i mean, a leopard tags. ok, i mean, you know, they're, they're not, you claim in tags. ok. i mean, again, this is just kind of a discursive playground that the nato is playing 30 seconds is probably going to the body. exactly. i mean, if the tyrants has failed to deter, made so from essentially getting involved in the war against russia, using ukraine is a proxy to 5 russia. then, by the same token, degeren's will failed to deter russia in striking nature. i mean,

a basic or worst of those, like what do we have to lose? nato is already waging a war against us that, you know, basically all bets are off. yeah, this is a but we should never actually we should, we should never get to the point. what do we have to lose? that is the place we cannot go. okay, gentlemen, gonna just been here when you go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue. our discussion on nato status are to the really going to be the work we just knew the ones that are going to be holding the situation in front of the movie. we will certainly not be

a bulky, but certainly be honest. 3500 the the most i for the business. and you agree in the of the daily news? i know mary comes green. we'll just go through with this discussion of clipping and i'll see what i can provide you with stuff such and sure. ruckel beam was matter of the different student and for which of course in good use their own the wisdom of the probably just a moment that was curious if it was here year that was sent to you yesterday, i hit the tab through. usually i'm doing that the studies leaning towards a place to listen for me to on, on, on the tutor which originally it was just pushed. it just won't because

we use new way to possible do school culture. we really don't know which these are i know for the don't know is i can just to do given the other than that, we're going to use just opinion pronounced has come up with the acceptance. and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. listed of opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do the have the state department, the c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do, don't want marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, we don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way and think

the local net across software, all things are considered non funeral. now this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news the . okay, let's go back to martin america's one of the interesting things. the dilemma is one of the dilemma is the nato, as it is always very stubbornly and probably in eric and believes that you know, we're going to go wherever we want to go. and you know, they help with the russians. okay. well we have had a brick wall. okay. of course you know sweden in billing that is on the agenda. of course they want to get him the pores, country in europe, moldova, god knows why whatever. okay. but they've hit a brick wall with, with ukraine, and anyone who's been paying attention. this is a critical, pivotal point for russia, but no under no circumstances. whatever form ukraine is. they will not be

a member of nato. and the nato is kind of dug itself into a trap right here because someone is saying no to nature and they're not used to it more. yeah. and um, yeah, i think it's why right? that. so the knowledge of is tons to, to, to the, to this level. and that we're, we're actually discussing the possibility of any of these countries from eastern europe coming in. i'm, you know, let's, let's look at it from a different perspective. i see i'm in a quite negative way, i think to 1st of all, you know, we're looking at a new data now which is divided. yes. it's like a can speak nature, you know, and we never done that before. like everything that night just um and you kind before, you know, you've often said, you know, this is not libya, this is not syria, this is the russian simplified. so you, there is a, you display a month, and let's think what's happening now with these meetings, you know, with nights or leaders. i'm was so lensky. i'm becoming more and more aggressive. you know, i think we're reaching

a point of admission that the approach as it was and it's been muscle, be underfunded, probably. and when we talk about $12030000000000.00 of us money going into the. ready ukraine machine probably though there's nowhere near enough. probably you have to look at 345 times that to have the kind of impact of ukrainians and the want. because i told me about penetrating that line and you know, no one has the secret. no one has the so to spring offensive has become a summer offensive. you know, a, i don't, i don't know how you, you find 2 or 340-0000 soldiers with house. the only one. let's just the point georgia, me, you're in hungry. i mean, i how many, you know, 100 and you're not a government official. so i'm just gonna ask your opinion, but how many 100 it's going to join up for that project going into a good. i mean, i kind of remember history that, you know, last time you home, gary and troops were in the part of the world that didn't work out too well. so then george. oh, that's all right, go fine. and i, so that's like a book,

a point that uh, you know, victor or bon emphasizes hungry, got sucked into world war 2 hungry, took part in the invasion of the soviet union as an ally of pitiless and got the club, the off the world war 2 and i threw in your, you know, the you, you 40 is the comment is i'm the, that's what you do. you know, if you start the war and you lose the war, you get club. and i mean that's an inevitability and it is, it's something that's i think it before, but. 3 makes clear because it is an interesting issue though that was what made it was now done is gone oil and was elected. they are going to make some kind of a commitment. those are landscape. i mean, i don't think the villain is just go to the george or your keys in us. ok. i'm going to buy. what do you think it is going to be? well, i think that there's probably going to be something along the lines over across new since bloodline for coalition of the willing. i mean, if you know people want to help you brain, go,

go right ahead and try and help doing the problem is that now the major has made an existing shall map for it. so it comp just back away because if it backs away it's essentially mentioning we lost. yeah, we didn't just lose. i mean we, we can lose that. i've got is non okay. we learn, you know, bunch of go to those. you know, that's fine. okay. we love this on the if the end of nato. what state exactly. when last, the russia, this is a bit know why, you know, this is the people that we've been hating for years and years. it really no decade . we lost democracies. i've lost them in, you know, the great divide do with democracies and we'll talk this is, that's gone. we'll talk this is a one major kind of flow to do that. and that when they don't just have to escalate, i mean, there's just, there's no way to back away because there isn't anyone in nato with it, with his actual vicar, or about who suggests things like this is, this is not major. just have to sit down. you know, forget all this, all the, and just work something something and pragmatic out with russia just as we used to

work something pragmatic out for the soviet union. but there's no one of the major prepared to do it. so they all in, and i don't see any uh, you know, willingness on how nato is bought. do a back down all the way back to the more of the roses. i mean for democracy. i mean, i thought this was awful about security, okay. that is the discursive mistake, martin, the west is made, is to try to equate the to they have nothing to do with one another. and if you look at the rushes past year, it is all about it. security. it is never about politics in that sense or yeah, i think it's just about the last couple of weeks of that it's been a very top here is for media and coming these events, you know, and i wonder how much media's plays look kind of role is played in, contributing to this capital moment, the way with this, you know, you know this night. so the summit is asking to produce some sort of it in my view . it will, it will offers and let's get some sort of deal which we just involve more match

a hardware, but a lot more unintelligent, sharing the part of something. i understand. i mean, again, this is called the fog of war, media and propaganda. but i mean this, the, the, the warehouses are empty. okay. they're, they're ordering things to be on the cover, not just yet, but mainly, it's a big problem. yeah, i mean, it may well be that there might be collective cool around the world for the americans friends to look at the 2nd rates on 3rd, 2nd generation equipment. and you know, russian times where, like in eighty's, in morocco for example, um that, that might, will be part of it. but i think, you know, it was worrying is, is, although i am seeing a very, very slight shift from the narrative in america. you know, american gentleman is starting to pointing the finger on us, you know, slightly a so big questions. you know, we still have a very, very, a very, very unusual and we'd like to put you on the ground, which is really not helping. i mean, it's absolutely incredible. the protocol since 1st video on switzer blue actually

is probably why is exploding? i'm not a fan of 10000. so why does explode? because yeah, unless i'm not asking those really, really basic questions that this guy is asking you. we talked about the coup with them. you know, i mean, well, i would rather just itself, you know, is there somebody else that did the training is actually take pot shots of the time a couple of months earlier? yes. what's your 1st reported on this? why is that being adver us as a narrative? now where, you know, every meet up in britain, america is especially fun to think that it rushes up to don't to, we're not gonna look at anything else. the russians did it, you know, but what i think is happening is that with the nicest summit with the time attack, i think, and james cleverly statement a couple of weeks ago that the cranes have every right to hit russia within russia . i think what's happening is we aren't being softened up well being prepared for a new way, a new policy to allow us to. ready or in ukraine, and i think um,

and of course of course people are going to vote on this gorge, right. this is, this is a popular war and in the past, or is it a leak driven? explain what's going well as a very good web. it goes because any time when the war implicitly is an issue of the voters vote against that, there is no popular mandate anywhere full of as well. and there is a reason why the alternative to deutschland potty is doing well. and jeremy, i have, you know, the germans of very, very, very wary of voting for any ranking. bought me this probably is obviously nothing to do with knots isn't more any relevant at the moment. does that? oh, this is a fall, right? but it is the nationalized body. german is a very wary of this. nonetheless, essentially, this is an interesting georgia that it takes russia, it was before the soviet union, you know, to make people, you know, that they would, that they would, um, would it be the injected into german politics? and now we, you know, it's fighting russia and now the right is be, you know,

they're sending, you know, these people going to be, are, say, it's interesting how it's kind of ships around the, but always, it's the point. russia, yes, that's, that's right. so the ones who was the most bellicose about russia in germany is elaina bad luck. i mean it's, it's, it's the left. i mean, it's that the, the greens are absolutely insane. as all greens generally throughout your body. this is the much of, you know, the, a project, all the left. i mean, the ones who somehow of identified russia as the enemy. and that, that can be no backing now is all, but just not forbid to say, a rush as the enemy. but, you know, we don't want to destroy the world. i, because if you're already, yeah, russia is the enemy and we're ready to go all the way we would. you know, it's like a list struck. yes. i'm ready to press the button out loud. even idea. you know, it was specify what are the conditions under which you are the press the button. and you have an lena bed, a box, a foot and a half. that changes position 360 bucks the people were dealing with. you're smart

and be honest with more seriously, very interesting use. you said, you know, there might be a call for american allies with this. what $800.00 base is around the world, you know, maybe pony. uh, some uh, additional equipment besides a very interesting message to the global south, particularly china is that, oh, you know, they, you know, it's a country like ukraine, but can stop the west, you know, and it's keels. i mean, that's a very interesting message if you could have this, like scrounging around. so the, the, that with the nato is it is not what we were told. okay. and it's, 1st of all, it's divided and it's pretty short on supplies because i've always said, if russia was such a danger to nature countries, why didn't they spend more money on defense? they didn't learn because they never had much of spinning in a conflict like that. which was, which was true. well, the result is over such a long period. you know, the miscalculation at the beginning of this conflict was absolutely breathtaking. i

think we're seeing it again now. i think this idea that now we think about troops into the country is, is, uh, these west, some of these have got together on the kids themselves. or if we do this next on, if she goes out for, could that be them? the, the capitalist switch jump starts, a new series of diplomacy from russia or from china that could well possibly be part of it. the other thing about backing out with george mentioned is that there is a timeline to this. and the timeline is 2020 for us selections. so that can be a point where the west can back out because if america says, if it is bible says 2 months before those that some okay, we're going to pull out of your brain and i'm going to spend a $120000000000.00. now i'm paula to which i think is what trump or something like counter will probably do that would be the stump of the pool. you know, at some point, you know, everything is off, all bets are off. so i think they, these are certain factors that we have to look at, but, you know, there's so much risk, there's so much experimentation, you know,

don't bring less trust. and so if it goes say, please, you know, i think there's enough muff, it's already sitting around the peak table of trying to work out the future careers and the next move, you know, um times on the sped isn't all martin, this is all about careers. you know, i mean i was going to be the next head of natal. i may be from the u. k. now, what do we need a woman from scandinavia? so what does this have to do with security? i keep asking that unfortunately, gentleman, this is not a pod gas, this is a program and we run out of time on a thing, my guess. in budapest and americans, you only think of us. we're watching us here at ortiz see next time, remember across that means the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just

a shifted reality. distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just because it shows you fractured images, present it is, but can you see through their illusions, going underground can the by the middle of the 19th century, practically the whole of india had been under the rule of the british and by the colonial authorities edit both that heavy depth bringing the people into poverty exporting natural resources. and moreover, these authorities absolutely had no consideration for the physicians of the local

population, treating them like 2nd class citizens. the british were showing signs of disrespect even to those and cooperated with them. the facts of ignoring the religious believes of the hindus let them use nails as the voice mercenaries, soldiers, surfing under the british ground. 3000000000 began on the 10th of may 1857 in the garrison town of may river north of india, the form of abuse. the rebels quickly took over daily that he rode the resistance of the indian people lasted for one and a half years. however, the forces were not equal for the colonial authorities dealt with the rebels, cruel, late fee and slaves. the boys were tied to the mouth of the cannon and were shot right through their bodies for the amusement of the public. this type of execution was called the devils with the obliteration of them you may result in the death of 800000 inhabitants of the indians. however,

the british empire never broke the free spirit of the indians and their will will resist the the hello and welcome to wells a part reality is that wage when you some of the living in it, 2000 and go way the lead americans side by ryder elliptic point is phrased in the midst of the cold war, but nowadays it's maybe even more useful in cuttings, through the masses of propaganda. alternative world views in this fast changing world can reality be even assessed, let alone accept as well. to discuss that,

i'm now joined by s b s donna, a retired major general of the indian army general. it's a great honor of great, great pleasure for me to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. my pleasure to talk to you and your gentle as to the audience. we're watching this. thank you. now let's start with the subject of reality because you recently published a very interesting article on them in europe, being uh, diplomacy platform in which you wrote them both ukraine and russia. i have the teaching to accept the realities of war in what way? c s, what is the sort of share you bring? what is concerned? because he's just the situation reading from, for example, on tickets now, moving on board something garden as dirty will in amana, you will have the integrations of separate on both sides. you also have the individuals on even going up to a striking the leadership. something's

a there that a lot of, uh, i think the, the bones ultimately when we get into the room, surely in story. we're not distracting that the unity is that they get from the not the site and it's very difficult for us let not go except that you bring him 30 that the new york. what sort of yoga directly in addition to gave me a water management that i saw and they construct copy from the ocean site. also the situation is there. uh, they feel that they have not completed all the objectives. if the objective was to have a southern what it all right to do a 3 me are and then there after do or this i and running across the street on the computer to him and then walter, my computer uh the, uh, shall i say the issue of the region, so from that and they are also still sort of objective. but the ability of russia

is not so much that there can be a major difference. similarly, as far as the, the us lives not to be just supporting you. great. and in fact, it's a lot between uh, shall i say with russia and us let not to why the lot of going to be between the she and you be, uh, but uh, the either the non contact on declared water in terms of order to go the information or the problem i take down the law is the green lock ocean. i think we would agree and both of us that from the very beginning besides have been very vague in terms of setting their objectives. although you can sort of figure them out the looking at the, at how they move. but i think the difficulty here for me, at least, is that russia buying large supports it's war effort by itself. i'm sure there may have been some calculations, but russia has the capacity to adjust worth of the other side. you pray and it's uh,

western sponsors there in a very tangled bind in. it's not always clear who's providing their sources. who's setting the object is the only thing that is clear is that it's the ukrainians that are paying for this war in terms of facts, human losses. but other than that, it's very difficult to understand who is actually in charge one. it comes to the other side. what are the peat falls of this kind of arrangement? they might be? yeah, in my opinion, as far as the other site is concerned, it is us, which is in jobs. it is us let not to. russia happens to be a connection to the post will be there to grow and the gun is being fired from the shore. little village does that simple is that they didn't do one other thing. then zalinski signed a degree that you will get charity gift kept leaving you. there was a lot of exercise which was done. uh, some good uh at that point right now obviously we, um, if you see joan, uh,

let's see this very cool sugar rush. i saw a uh yeah, uh, uh, restaurant in a, in a situation that were pretty angry. the leader likes to be the 6 told him to be a reference. uh, there is no way that he will not be a s. what is there a she has contact business though there. uh nobody uh with the finance excuse of us . yeah. from the country. uh, which is a certainly not acceptable any better than they were. but there's a few times that, i mean, i see a reasonable amount of publication, and this was a way to get them all in a manner that had something to go to the website of united us. but it has, therefore that'd be mobile. but then there wasn't anything just there is a lot, there is a, i'm sure i'll be on the other side and they're all good before the, you know, unless there is a water, you know, the, for us. so there is a,

there are many interest in more beautiful. i wonder. and the solution itself be part of the vision. it's an extension of $1.00 logically. or lot of the day when i use the thought approval. unfortunately, it's going to you all the be all to move their data, the board 0 between us and china. but unfortunately, with better this vision, this 1.0101 mixed up so badly that now usa, the biased stop problem because the store don't even get the dish or the ones that don't, that to be smooth jazz together. so the thing about this, like the deals with the board. now i want to ask you about something that you're reading about as the landscape objectives in this whole thing. and you said that

with the cumulative aid of over 100000000000 poor thing to ukraine. the last to the president of ukraine has no choice but to continue fighting as a compromise will jeopardize his survival. where do you see the main rats of the survival coming from? are they coming primarily from the domestic phones from russia? or could it be that i think would be jeopardized by the west and south queens to support him? in my opinion, there's sort of a love seat berkeley. big question is an atheist. the is one of the physical violent underwater to go to right now as well. have to go to the label as concern. uh is. uh, what do you see by the, what actually the issue is is that the specialist is i was chatting with you a great in the book together. uh, the i mean the by people who are not gonna get ready to give you a membership. the answer was not always have to give you the numbers you get to

that you were uh, because of the i couldn't find the answer is no, because the good what a membership a pretty good addition is that the country should not be involved in any of the law and the being the membership representative, it is unlikely that you're going to get the membership social know number before you. i think a lot because he should have the dryer is the not the you that is not the book so many people are distressed. so many people have so many people in the uh, the battle perhaps, uh, the security of your, uh, uh, getting want to get pretty cool as far as he's going, sir. also the keep calling that it's a democratic choice of nuclear. like. the fact is that the water was declared, there was a monster load declared the in washington, zalinski, the mazda mazda, bigger full, has a pest from the site. yeah. all right,

yeah. you also have, uh, let's do that later. that he's getting a lot more to be there. if he does it, one of them better get off the list of basically a couple of beers that those are the ones that are done there unless russia just didn't below be stalled to all be of immediate use at all. the mediation, the, the fact that the visit, unless us as a ratio it either way getting then there is no guess all or piece. i want to ask you a historical question because i think russian the west has listed in recent history have a different, have had different approaches to the enemies, the united states and the allies, by the way, to the united states tends to use that process and l e in the them that happens with a summer, been loving in a, in of getting this done. i think that's happening with the saudis right now. where

is the russians? and they tend to follow the opposite approach. they reconcile with the chechens with whom we forth a bit of warren protections and now represented them the ukrainian front flies. we also reconcile with china. we have major border disagreements of the day under the cold war. do you do believe in the possibility all from something like that happening in your brain with the ukrainians? perhaps getting too much disappointed this illusions are losing too much to turn away from the west that so that the russia can use this opportunity to reconcile with them in some mutually agreeable manner. a seat, you'll lose a leg to be absolutely good joe, but i'm not the risk. i see a big even lot of washington on your your will save your grade and therefore there is that effort is deep. the great no matter the lock you great in standing.