which was huge value to me because typically that's another problem with the law. you only get reasonable attorney fees. typically that's about 90 percent of what you spend. so could you imagine spending 7 years in a little. ready ocean and receiving $50000.00, but your attorney bill is a 1000000 and a half. you can you only get 90 percent of that back so you can't win even if you win. so it's kind of, yeah, it was a no brainer to settle. i actually retired on january 31st. i yeah here's, here's the biggest problem. delta has not changed. really changed much of anything . they're still putting pilots on duty for up to 25 hours to as a nose. they are looking the other way. they called it a loophole in a workaround, but when you work around a federal regulations such as fatigue, you're violating safety management systems, which is a risk mitigation tool. so they're looking another way. they're still behaving

badly and they don't monitor their policies. cuz when the adults has corporate policies are no risk to retaliation will not be tolerated. it will not be subject determination. and delta has how nobody accountable in this entire process. all the, all didn't, did this to me were still there and promoted. and so yeah, and so it was kind of like they went this far and how many millions and attorney fees and they spent, you know, what's next and as a captain, flying with my fellow pilots, they're going to be going along to the right. if they're going to come and get me again, or what are they going to do next? and, and i just thought that i do not respect his company enough to continue flying for them. the fact that the people are there, they haven't anything. and the problem is the board of directors and new and they're not taking any action. ceo was involved and bastion, and he was his name, the number one, c e o and their ceo grew. so when you're the leader of your company is behaving

this way and condoning a retaliation and attacking on a whistleblower. and i also find it very difficult. i'd like to change at work turn whistle blower because i really didn't listen blowing anyone. i use my doctoral research and created an 8 your ethnographic study and, and created this report that would help out. i was trying to help somebody something i guess if they went out and hired an outside company would have spent, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars to get what i was giving to them for free. and instead of thinking me or it ripping up and throwing it away and said goodbye, they decided to go on the attack. so let's talk about what you, what you offer them, the kind of information that you offered them you wrote about falsified training, records, retaliatory line checks, and unfair treatment. can you tell us exactly what that means and what other concerns did you have? yeah, so the falsifying records training is a huge is

a huge issue. and what they were doing is we're required to give an oral, to assess the level of understanding. and that actually is the biggest uh, when the most important aspects and why airplanes crash, why we're having incidents is lack of level of understanding. will delta's pencil webbing? it? they're not giving the orals to the pilots and they're just putting the grades in there. then we have a written test wherever we're required to, to give you a book to memorize. and so they give you the answers, you go and take the test of true, you know, a, b, c, d, answer the test. so i explained in my paper that some training philosophies and why, how to train better um safety management system, which is the big buzz word for everybody right now. it's supposed to be the end all guest, and it really is nothing because you have to have a, a positive safety culture. so the entire report was actually the importance of

safety. culture is a foundation for s m s. and under every category of adjust culture, a reporting culture, and the learning culture, what i did is i included these cultures. and then i went ahead and i went ahead and i explained what we were doing. here's an example. here's how you fix it. here's how you solve the problem and i had a page and a half of references for academic research and. and so it was quite interesting that they reacted the way they did. they sent your complaints to an outside auditor, and the auditor found that everything you had said was correct, and presumably at least i would expect then remediation to begin. you've made these observations. an outside auditor says, oh yes, these observations are true. and the whole issue should have ended there. so, so why didn't that, and when did you realize that the airline was going to go after you personally?

well, actually heard my union representative had warned may if you meet with them, they're going to get you. they're going to give you this section 15 now at the time i had no idea what it was. and perhaps i was not here, but i thought in today's day and age, nobody's been come, get you for giving safety information to them to help out. so i was not even that aspect, so i kind of loosely knew that they might but never really anticipated or expected it to actually happen. and then um, and then when they actually told me, i never knew that they had done that safety audit. i had so expected something that because we were receiving from emails they were doing internal audits. i'm the culture of the airline. do you like your management team? are they helping you? what do you think about? and so i can see that they were researching from trying to get from the employees the feel for the culture, the airlines. so i hey, i suspected that had something to do with it,

but the fact that every other month they kept doing it, they weren't getting the answers that they wanted. and so they were researching, but not until we to pose steve dixon. did he tell me that i was a catalyst for change in that and that they had done this? i had actually no idea the extent of being done. and he's the one that i, i remember sitting there listening to his deposition, saying that i inspired this star was a catalyst for change. and it was thinking, and why did you do this? yeah, me, that's right. yeah, no. and then how did you set, how did you respond if you're a catalyst to change, then they should have given you an award a metal, you know something a performance bonus. instead you ended up having to hire an attorney. and then what happened next? and i did, and actually i the attorney before that. so that's how we found out. so we went through discovery and what we had learned is jim graham had pre meditated she had

plan that's from the day i wanted to come meet with them. we learned that the regional director filled davis and deltas labor relations attorney met with the doctor in a hotel room in chicago for 10 and a half hours. they were discussing a strategy we learned. we have emails that the chief pilot, edited my medical report and multiple occasions they put in these e mails strategy. they put in these e mails. they were going to do this to me. we had emails at jim gram road to steve dickson. they were going to do so we learned after the fact that this was a completely pre meditated process. and yet we had to go to court and we never imagined. i never imagined after we were able to depose and bastion that after that deposition, that this company would even step further in court. and yet they did. so the big question is why? because all along, if i would have been the advisor to delta airlines at any phase, even after they,

even after they last, i would have had my ceo, somebody step out and say this is wrong. we didn't know. we found this new information. we apologize to her, we're going to take action. and yet to date, they still deny they did anything wrong and they're in the clear and lies the problem. stay with us were speaking with aviation, was the blower and delta airlines pilot carlene petted about her experience blowing the whistle against wrong doing in the airline industry. we're going to take a short break. we have a lot more to talk about. so stay with us. 2 2 2 2 2 2 a, a so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy on station

let it be an arms race and it is on all sides. very dramatic. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very unclear to get a time time to sit down and talk the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john terry, onto we're speaking with delta airlines pilot carleen petted about what happened to her after she blew with alarm. wrong doing that, she saw at the airline. it got ugly, quickly. carleen, thanks again for being with us. you're welcome. thank you. i want to ask you about what must have been the most difficult thing about your whistle blowing. that's the airlines allegation, that you must have been crazy after all, only a crazy person would complain about such a great company. at least that was the implication. they hired

a bias doctor to whom they gave $76000.00. who said that you suffered from bipolar disorder. that was based on nothing. of course you didn't suffer from bipolar disorder or from any other disorder. but hearing that for the 1st time, had to hurt. did you know at the time that it was actually a common tactic that corporations use to describe it? whistle blowers. how did you initially respond to it? to? i actually didn't know when i was 1st of my researching, trying to figure out because i knew this was wrong. what they did. i knew i wasn't helping me. i started looking for attorneys, and there was an attorney in minnesota who told me, he said, you're going to, here's what's gonna happen. they're going to keep you out long enough to mess with you in training or they're going to give you a fake metal, a medical diagnosis. but i'd never, i'd heard, you know, i, i really didn't doubt that, but i figured okay, i can bypass that. i'll go back to new aircraft,

so that's when i bid the triple 7 figuring when i come back, i get a whole new program that will take one little at stride it about you know, basket. and then after i was diagnosed as bipolar my logical brain said these guys are pretty damn stupid because it's on medical condition that should be proven. so it wasn't like just a personality disorder. and i learned that that was typical. i had called a doctor um and in search of finding this neutral or actually finding my uh, the 2nd one before the me. ok. and when i told this doctor that i was diagnosed as bipolar, he started laughing and i said was so funny. and he said, typically they give personality disorders, they don't just want, you're gone from this, you're like, they want you gone from the industry and bingo, that's the time that i realized it probably wasn't my safe to report. it was probably the research i was doing because everything that i researched at emory

rental, on my eye doctor, it was what was going on at delta. and it was i was looking into level of understanding safety culture, what was impacting the safety of our aircraft. and as i was researching this something and low, this is what's happening at delta airlines. so i kind of use them de, identified them, created the survey instruments, and learned that i was correct, that everything delta is doing is a counter. it's it counteract. safety is wrong, i mean from some fear retaliation, non reporting culture, their training practices, putting pilots on duty fatigue. everything they're doing is wrong. and i said, okay, we need to do something to fix this company. i thought that perhaps the senior executive jim graham and steve dixon were in this ivory tower. and perhaps they didn't know what was going on. as i learned, they not only knew what was going on,

but they were in the hand of it. and they weren't going to change and they needed to silence me. so i had been in the process, you went to a number of different doctors, all of whom found you to be perfectly mentally healthy, including a panel that, that was made up of some of the best psychiatrists in america at the mayo clinic at every step of the way the airline last and you one on this issue. and finally, delta just gave up. but as you noted just a few minutes ago, rather than to say a, we're sorry we were wrong. and she was right. they said that they were making a business decision to not appeal the final ruling. that would make me angry too. but you must have been happy that it was all over finally. and the bottom line is that you one, tell us what that was like. actually, it wasn't really because i had lived with this for so long and i, i thought that we were going to create change when you're going through. how do you,

you think, okay, i can survive how it is on the other side, we're going to succeed and we're gonna gain something. and i thought that we going through this, i would be able to create the change and make the difference. so it kind of was a driving force, and at the end of the day when i finally agreed to sell cars, they did appeal and they lost their appeal. but it was that 3rd that, that additional court we had to go to didn't justify how much the judge gave. and i was ready to do it. but at that point, when i settled, i felt like i was, i felt like i gave that. i felt like even though i won everything, every step of the way i want, i want i want. but when i settled and realize delta never held any accountability, they're not change creating the change. i thought they would, they're not holding anyone accountable, even though their policy says subjects termination, we will hold people accountable. there will be no retaliation and prove and on

every level, but the ceo, the senior vp, the human resources woman, she was promoted, everybody's still there. everybody's going on as businesses normal. so it doesn't quite feel like wind because the wind was in so many and the wind was going to be the change. i can understand that. tell us then what substantive changes were finally made it delta, thanks to your whistle blowing. um the probably the greatest changes. they'll never be able to do this again because now it became so known that it have that occurred . so i didn't really see that many changes there. i is a little bit more communicative, but they haven't changed their training. that's the biggie. they haven't done anything with training, it's actually, it appears to be getting worse. they stare still has a fear of retaliation. they made a great effort to uh,

tell the new employees that they were a great company. you can come speak to us. but everybody kind of underlying knows that that's not really the truth. so the change may seem on the surface, the substances. i don't, i don't, i personally don't think it's really still there and there, and there's still a lot of retaliation going on. sexual harassment by management at delta with the female employees, a female pilots agency is rampant. i. yeah it's, it's just not a happy place. your case was covered extensively in the ation media, and that coverage was universally sympathetic. i read everything. have pilots or employees of other airlines reached out to you for advice. and what advice do you, or would you give to others in the airline industry who are considering blowing the whistle? oh, hundreds of pilots from the data started have been reached out to me to present

time. and i have actually helped quite a few advice i would give to them as everybody in the industry who they believe reports are anonymous. absolutely nothing. is anonymous. be of all call, be confident, be articulate, put everything in writing and copy everyone you can, cuz that's going to be your prediction. when this 1st started, my alpha representatives tried to talk me not to giving them a, giving them the safe to report. don't give it to him. my union rep tried to do that, and that actually is what saved me is because we had everything in writing. the documentation is key and then reach out there's resources out there, people are, are trying to help. now i, like i said, i got a lot of people call me for advice and also if you have a union representation, that's kind of tricky because the union may, you may think the union is going to help you. at the end of the day, you lose your statute, limitations for any other resource arbitration in the railway labor act,

the arbitrators are paid businessman. i would never put my career in the hand of an arbitrator if you didn't have to. so and then i would really like everyone to go to my website curling parent dot com, and there's a link to sign the petition to try and get this air 21 live reform because it's a very weak law. delta has proven that they can engage in a war of attrition and run the employee out. and then at the end of the day, they just thought they were going to wear me out, but they finally just knew they weren't. so they gave up carlene pettit dot com. i want to thank our guests captain carline petted for joining us and for her bravery in standing up to our corporate bosses. and thanks to our viewers for watching, it takes real leadership to improve safety. and as martin luther king junior, one said, the ultimate measure of a person is not where he stands in my it's of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. our guest today did the

right thing, even when it was tough, even when the cost was high. b, like carly and petted, do the right thing. i'm john kerry. yahoo! and you've been watching the whistle blowers until next time. 2 2 2 2 2 the hi, i'm rick sanchez and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and

whatever you do. don't marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the waiting thing. the breaking news here on r t a plane carrying the security detail of the south african leader and journalist is heading home after hungry refuse to allow it to access his aerospace so that they can fly. so russia that does the president himself has arrived in saint petersburg for talk to the bottom here. we have many more weapons and that's of nato countries. they know they handle all the time. they try to persuade us to stop negotiations on the reduction screwed up, attempt spiky and allies to provoke russia. and using nuclear rhetoric is only whitening the gap between moscow in the west, as well as

a lot of air pollutants says during a speech as a st. petersburg, economic forum. and molly's foreign minister calls on un peacekeeping troops to leave the country without delay, claiming their mission has failed to deal with security challenges there. the coming t y from the russian capital. this is archie international. i'm rachel evans here with the top stories of the our welcome to the program. and the leaders of 7 african nations and their top officials have arrived in saint petersburg to discuss in russia, ukraine peace talks. that's what half of south the south african delegation, including the countries president, security guards and a journalist pool or prevent it from flying over hungry and have been diverted back to south africa. our correspondent ox on

a boy eco is in st. petersburg and has brought us these details just a little earlier. and they're expecting leaders from uh, 7 african countries to be here in saint petersburg. but uh, they will begin uh, by the bilateral meeting between persons that are my faults of south africa as f, as in food. and after that the, the other leaders are going to join them. now the, the details of the piece proposal that the african leaders are the african continent has it on the table. i have already been published. the draft proposal includes touch flat just as the because this has to be settled through negotiations by peaceful means that uh destination is required from both sides. that's all sides . rather have to pledge not to increase our security at the sound. so now the country, this is a very important point for russian because uh, she's very concerned about need his extension to the east or uh, the west,

unofficial militarization of japan, which is what has been happening over the last couple of years throughout the printing or formerly accent after its native, but it's still presents a major strategic but for our support and that was actually one of the goals and intentional. i think it was one of the goals of russia village, reparation that entry. now the, the drop piece proposal also includes such pledges as the respect of the sovereignty of both countries according to the un charter and sicily patient and the return of the refugees. as well as the health in the posts for reca instruction of your brain. not one particular point that is crucial for africa is making sure that they should be uninterrupted flow of words, particularly green and storage slicers from

a russian ukraine onto the world market. then this is a, a critical off point. as i said, for africa, because africa historically has been one of the most affected by various levels. crisis deep and dynamic of war. but because they can ukraine effect is much more than at any of the content because it's drive the, the process for food and personalize is up. and the music currently increases the costs of living as putting some of those countries under this rather potential not hunger and thing that explains the diplomatic initiative. the african leaders of doing that, not only for russia in your brain or the west of the matter, but 1st and foremost out of that old trick magic national age. right now, when it comes to the south african delegation and their trip, did he have? what issues did they bring up? and of course, how do the western media cover that event? well, uh there's been a bit of a well looking to actually look at the it'd be the full diplomatic scandals

involving the logistical details of the travel from the south african delegation. a big part of the president rema forces security personnel and his journalistic full were detained. by the bullish official under what the south african e. as a made up allegations. some of the south african officials like use the polish side of sound latasha even races. man. we know that despite the fact that the human he's had of security was obtained in full and logic pain, but how rather in full and presence from a post, a along side of the african leaders, the travel to you for meeting with president the last equal i have to say, wasn't particularly excited about the plan, but he did mesa, the african liter is also the statements about the piece plan where i would describe them as of august and the sunday never the last of the africans travel to

see if i'm they are expected i to be here in saint petersburg today, which i think shows, you know, the amount of significance they are putting into that initiative. i believe we have some of the statements from the south african delegation describing how they were received in poland. let's listen to what they have. they didn't see any explosion or hate an explosion. that's what we say. no, it lived in the morning today today. yes, we went to put you at an in the time we arrived and the time we went to put your end, but we did not witness any of those who did not have to ask and the sorry, no, we didn't hear it. but did you go to bump schultz or today? no, no, no, i didn't go to the present. it was taken to i heard

the all these questions the address to the south african liter. um it's a very interesting point in the one. 0, one very secure. still illustration to the propaganda war that's going on around this visit that as well as around this post. like because watching media, we're deals with reports about how the african delegation in q a y mat by bomb explosions and the russian aerial attacks. but the, your there are denying that anything of the sort help. and then i also want to mention that is that really striking that most of the western media describe this visit as the presence of them a full says, you know, o p r 2 are because supposedly he's in um, you know, the was bad graces that the he is afraid of the western reaction to

his true position, and therefore here, uh, supposedly does its, you demonstrate that is neutral. and i think that underlines the out self center what the media and what's the policy has become. because as i mentioned, the africans have a key interest in seeing the green zeal, green and fertilizer deal. actually that being realized, because russia, the rest of that, it's not going to see by the deal. if i it's no, it's board. you still will have to stay for the context that i do was assigned last year in july. but until and now it is only being upheld on the premium side. ukrainian, if you go to the western market discounts prices, but the russian will be the russian virtue, isaac, i still being blocked by the west, which is ricky, have worked on the global markets, and this is what the african leaders are trying to bring to all the size of this

conflict that in this is not just this climate shift in russia and the printer, russian, the way this copeland, i faxed the entire globe and therefore the entire world has an interest in the south l as, as the western media. echo t as a rhetoric, we spoke to a political analyst who believes that there is no appetite for fact checking if the truth goes against the western narratives. the true. what we're really trying to spot is a gauge. your interest of the west. the truth can go to have this know i put that into actually trying to know what happens from the sources. double checking, screening, verifying that was, has low decided that is u k,

that it was to defend the projects. and therefore it is ukraine that decides, you know, accept what happens. even in terms of objective reality. ukraine is found to be on the sides to be doing things that is not supposed to be doing the west and by extension. it's a corporate and media arthritis has no interest in the report to truthfully, on the objective.