are and i also find it very difficult. i'd like to change at what turn whistle blower because i really didn't whistle blowing anyone. i use my doctoral research and created an 8 year ethnographic study and, and created this report that would help them. i was trying to help somebody something i guess if they went out and hired an outside company would have spent, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars to get what i was giving to them for free. and instead of thinking me or ripping up and throwing it away and said goodbye, they decided to go on the attack. so let's talk about what you, what you offer them, the kind of information that you offered them. you wrote about falsified training, records, retaliatory line checks, and unfair treatment. can you tell us exactly what that means and what other concerns did you have? yeah, so the falsifying records training is a huge is a huge issue. and what they were doing is we're required to give an oral, to assess the level of understanding. and that actually is the biggest uh,

when the most important aspects and why airplanes crash, why we're having incidents is lack of a level of understanding. will delta's pencil webbing? it, they're not giving the orals to the pilots and they're just putting the grades in there. and then we have a written test wherever we're required to, to give you a book to memorize. and so they give you the answers, you go and take the test as true, you know, a, b, c, d, answer the test. so i explained in my paper that some training philosophies and why, how to train better um safety management system, which is the big buzz word for everybody right now. yeah, it's supposed to be the end, all guessed, and it really is nothing because you have to have a, a positive safety culture. so the entire report was actually the importance of safety culture as a foundation for s m. s. and under every category of adjust culture, a reporting culture and the learning culture,

what i did is i included these cultures. and then i went ahead and i went ahead and i explained what we were doing. here's an example. here's how you fix it. here's how you solve the problem and i had a page and a half of references for academic research and. and so it was uh, quite interesting that they reacted the way they did. they say it's a place to an outside auditor, and the auditor found that everything you had said was correct, and presumably at least i would expect then remediation to begin. you've made these observations. an outside auditor says, oh yes, these observations are true. and the whole issue should have ended there. so, so why didn't that, and when did you realize that the airline was going to go after you personally, a well actually heard my union representative had warned may if you meet with them, they're going to get you. they're going to give you this section 15 now at the time

i have no idea what it was. and perhaps i was naive, but i thought in today's day and age, nobody's been come, get you for giving safety information to them to help out. so i was not even that aspect, so i kind of loosely knew that they might but, and never really anticipated or expected it to actually happen. and then um, and then when they actually told me, i never knew that they had done that safety audit. i had so expected something because we were receiving from emails they were doing internal audits on the culture of the airline. do you like your management team? are they helping you? what do you think about? and so i could see that they were researching from trying to get from the employees the feel for the culture of the airline. so i hey, i suspected that had something to do with it, but the fact that every other month they kept doing it, they weren't getting the answers that they want it. and so they were researching, but not until we to post steve dixon. did he tell me that i was

a catalyst for change in that and that they had done this? i had actually no idea the extent that they're done. and he's the one that i, i remember sitting there listening to his deposition, saying that i inspired this star was a catalyst for change. and it was thinking and why did you do this? yeah, that's right. yeah. and then how did you set, how did you respond if you're catalyst to change, then they should have given you an award a metal, you know something a performance bonus. instead you ended up having to hire an attorney. and then what happened next? and i did, and actually i the attorney before that. so that's how we found out. so we went through discovery and what we had learned is jim graham had premeditated see a plan that's from the day i wanted to come meet with them. we learned that the regional director filled davis and deltas labor relations attorney met with the

doctor in a hotel room in chicago for 10 and a half hours. they were discussing a strategy we learned. we have emails that the chief pilot, edited my medical report and multiple occasions they put in these e mails strategy. they put in these e mails, they were going to do this to me. we had emails at jim grammar to student dixon. they were going to do so we learned after the fact that this was a completely pre meditated process. and yet we had to go to court and we never imagined. i never imagined after we were able to depose at bastion that after that deposition, that this company would even step further in court and the up they did. so the big question is why? because all along, if i would have been the advisor to delta airlines at any phase, even after they even after they last, i would have had my ceo, somebody step out and say this is wrong. we didn't know. we found this new

information. we apologize to her, we're going to take action. and yet to date, they still deny they did anything wrong and they're in the clear and lies the problem. stay with us were speaking with aviation, was the blower and delta airlines pilot carlene petted about her experience blowing the whistle against wrong doing in the airline industry. we're going to take a short break. we have a lot more to talk about. so stay with us. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the russian states never as tight as on the phone and the most sense community best most all sense and up the in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will ben in the european union,

the kremlin media machine, the state on the rush to day and split our t. suppose next, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the services for the question, did you say even closer to the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by tell us to do vision with no real opinions. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented is 1st. can you see through their illusion

going underground? can the the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we're speaking with delta airlines. pilot carleen padded about what happened to her after she blew with long wrong doing that she saw at the airline. it got ugly, quickly, currently and thanks again for being with us. you're welcome. thank you. i want to ask you about what must have been the most difficult thing about your whistle blowing. that's the airlines allegation, that you must have been crazy after all,

only a crazy person would complain about such a great company. at least that was the implication. they hired a bias doctor to whom they gave $76000.00. who said that you suffered from bipolar disorder. that was based on nothing. of course you didn't suffer from bipolar disorder or from any other disorder. but hearing that for the 1st time, had to hurt. did you know at the time that it was actually a common tactic that corporations use to discredit whistle blowers? how did you initially respond to it to i actually didn't know when i was 1st of my researching, trying to figure out cuz i knew this was wrong. what they did, i knew i wasn't helping me. i started looking for attorneys, and there was an attorney in minnesota who told me, he said, you're going to, here's what's gonna happen. they're going to keep you out long enough to mess with you in training or they're going to give you a fake metal,

a medical diagnosis. but i never had heard, you know, i, i really didn't doubt that, but i figured okay, i can bypass that. i'll go get a new aircraft, so that's when i bid the triple 7 figuring when i come back, i get a whole new program that will take one little at stride and about you know, basket. and then after i was diagnosed as bipolar my logical brain said these guys are pretty damn stupid because it's on medical condition that should be proven. so it wasn't like just a personality disorder. and i learned that that was typical. i had called a doctor. and in search of finding this neutral or actually finding my uh, the 2nd one before the me. okay. and when i told this doctor that i was diagnosed as bipolar, he started laughing and i said was so funny. and he said, typically they give personality disorders. they don't just want, you're gone from this, you're like, they want you gone from the industry and bingo,

that's the time that i realized it probably wasn't my safe to report. it was probably the research i was doing because everything that i researched at emory rental, on my eye doctor, it was what was going on at delta. and it was i was looking into level of understanding safety culture, what was impacting the safety of our aircraft. and as i was researching or something and low, this is what's happening at delta airlines. so i kind of use them, the identified them, created the survey instruments and learned that i was correct, that everything delta is doing is counter. it's, it counteract safety is wrong. i mean from some fear of retaliation, non reporting culture, their training practices, putting pilots on duty fatigue. everything they're doing is wrong. and i said, okay, we need to do something to fix this company. i thought that perhaps the senior executive

jim graham and steve dixon were in this ivory tower. and perhaps they didn't know what was going on. as i learned, they not only knew what was going on, but they were in the hand of it. and they weren't going to change and they needed to silence me. so i just been in the process, you went to a number of different doctors, all of whom found you to be perfectly mentally healthy, including a panel that, that was made up of some of the best psychiatrists in america at the mayo clinic at every step of the way the airline last and you one on this issue. and finally, delta just gave up. but as you noted just a few minutes ago, rather than to say a, we're sorry we were wrong. and she was right. they said that they were making a business decision to not appeal the final ruling. that would make me angry too. but you must have been happy that it was all over finally. and the bottom line is that you one, tell us what that was like. actually,

it wasn't really because i had lived with this for so long and i, i thought that we were going to create change when you're going through. how do you, you think, okay, i can survive how it is on the other side, we're going to succeed and we're gonna gain something. and i thought that we're going through this, i would be able to create the change and make the difference. so it kind of was a driving force, and at the end of the day when i finally agreed to sell cars, they did appeal and they lost their appeal. but it was that 3rd that, that additional court we had to go to didn't justify how much the judge gave. and i was ready to do it. but at that point, when i settled, i felt like i was, i felt like i gave that. i felt like even though i won everything, every step of the way i run, i run i one. but when i settled and realized, delta never held any accountability, they're not st. creating the change, i thought they would. they're not holding anyone accountable,

even though their policy says subject to termination, we will hold people accountable. there will be no retaliation and prove and on every level, but the ceo, the senior vp, the human resources woman, she was promoted, everybody's still there. everybody's going on as businesses normal. so it doesn't quite feel like when, because the when wasn't the money and the when was going to be the change. i can understand that. tell us then what substantive changes were finally made it delta, thanks to your whistle blowing. um the probably the greatest changes, they'll never be able to do this again because now it became so known that it have that occurred. so i didn't really see that many changes. there is a little bit more communicative, but they haven't changed their training. that's the biggie. they haven't done

anything with training, it's actually, it appears to be getting worse. they stare still has a fear of retaliation. they made a great effort to uh, tell the new employees that they were a great company. you can come speak to us. but everybody kind of underlying knows that that's not really the truth. so the change may seem on the surface, the substances and i don't, i don't, i personally don't think it's really still there. and there is there still a lot of retaliation going on. sexual harassment by management at delta with the female employees. a female pilots agency is rampant. i. yeah, it's, it's just not a happy place. your case was covered extensively in the ation media and that coverage was universally sympathetic. i read everything. have pilots or employees of other airlines reached out to you for advice and what advice do you or would you

give to others in the airline industry who are considering blowing the whistle? hundreds of pilots from the data started have been reached out to me to present time. and i have actually helped quite a few advice i would give to them as everybody in the industry who they believe reports are anonymous. absolutely nothing is anonymous. be of all call, be confident the articulate, put everything in writing and copy everyone you can, cuz that's going to be your prediction. when this 1st started, my alpha representatives tried to talk me not to giving them a, giving them the safe to report. don't give it to him. my union rep tried to do that, and that actually is what saved me is because we had everything in writing. the documentation is key and then reach out there's resources out there, people are, are trying to help. now i, like i said, i got a lot of people call me for advice and also if you have a union representation, that's kind of tricky because the union may,

you may think that union is going to help you at the end of the day, you lose your statute limitations for any other resource arbitration and the railway labor act, the arbitrators are paid businessman. i would never put my career in the hand of an arbitrator if you didn't have to. so and then i would really like everyone to go to my website curling parent dot com, and there is a link to sign the petition to try and get this air 21 live reform because it's a very weak law. delta has proven that they can engage in a war of attrition and run the employee out. and then at the end of the day, they just thought they were going to wear me out, but they finally just knew they weren't. so they gave up carlene pettit dot com. i want to thank our guests captain carline petted for joining us and for her bravery in standing up to our corporate bosses. and thanks to our viewers for watching, it takes real leadership to improve safety. and as martin luther king junior,

one said, the ultimate measure of a person is not where he stands and mom, sense of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. our guest today did the right thing, even when it was tough, even when the cost was high. b, like carly and petted, do the right thing. i'm john kerry. yahoo! and you've been watching the whistle blowers until next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the, [000:00:00;00] the willing if i'm a sole body to the board, you know,

credit union doria. sonia i do she shit, a duck clean. i report the control room for 2 of us. so we fixed you get the project you system really mean you have enough not to sink divide, so it's that's in pennsylvania where we can do the cloud shows, actually it's strange dark news, but i'll let you as well. but the crazy if that's all there is to motivate my subway, but just to do you still know? sadly, if she ever we get a split the shipper instead of just stick with a lift or one of them, i need deals that says that you train school. so that's good news. i used to move on when they reached over or where i need to buy useful stuff. but i'm saying, yes,

i see the best way to, to recreate you take a picture of, i'll go with the to please the straight guy so that i'm not the after we withdrew truths from g f, as promised the key of authorities as their patrons usually do through it all into the wastebasket of history were of the guarantees that they will not continue to abandon such agreements. and i put in displaying a key piece of video that he says key of sign, and then spread under pressure from his western patron, small russian. meantime, post an african peacekeeping delegation off to rich rich ton from ukraine. at least 40 p for most of the children are killed and dozens of others. abducted in, i mean sojourn to attack on a school. in uganda. everyone's president wraps up

a tour of latin america signing dozens of deals with what he calls like minded nations laying the groundwork for new polar what the always working hard to give you all sides of today's top stories and with st. here to talk about on this program, let's go straight into it right now. so the russian president vladimir putin basically showing proof of a crucial piece deal that he says he have signed and then scrapped up on pressure from his western sponsors. he made those comments while hosting an african peacekeeping delegation. in some cases, we did not agree with you quite inside that this deal would be confidential, but we also never disclosed it or commented on it. the draft of disagreement was initialed by representative of the head of the negotiating group from t of he put his signature there. here it is

when he used it's called the treaty on permanent neutrality and guarantees for the security of ukraine. it contains 18 articles and there was also an appendix gets provisions concerning the armed forces and many other things. everything is written there down to units of military equipment and personnel of the armed forces. here's the document, it is initial, but after we withdrew troops from t f has promised the key of authorities as their patrons usually do. through it all into the waste basket of history. were of the guarantees that they will not continue to abandon such agreements. door. i think it's quite remarkable that the lodging there put in felt the need to bring this agreement to his meeting with the african leaders. in my opinion, it shows the significance. he attaches to these mediation efforts, as well as russia's reputation because uh,

i think what he's trying to do is to counter west the narrative that the russian military operation in ukraine came absolutely on per bolt on the western media and western officials like to present it as a, this cruel attempt to grab your print, entire true, where in fact uh, in the view of the russian president, what russia does is defending its own legitimate security concerns in, in ukraine. and he was very straightforward in describing russian perspective in front of the african leaders. he said that the, uh, that agreement that he actually demonstrates it to them had this title on permanent neutrality and security guarantees it to ukraine. and that it was essentially the status was a secure distribution in europe, off to the end of the cold war. now uh, according to the rest of the president, uh, the kremlin remains open to o. uh, peace facilitation initiatives. as long as they are on,

on the principle of fairness and recognition, of legitimate security interest of all sides. um, he's saying the african leaders for understanding the context, all of that conflict um not submitting to western pressure. now the african gas on the side side that they also have a practical, uh, national uh, security uh, interest in a, solving the ukranian conflict because africa happens to be one of the most affected by uh, the uh, food crisis. um, the, the rising inflation when it comes to commodities when it comes to fertilizers when it comes to brains. here is uh, what the african leaders had to say during his meeting with the russian president. it has provoked problems in the field defendants and food security. and unprecedented crisis in its nature,

and he showed you already to support task in removing the obstacles, solve this conflict, thanks to you and all the actors like to t a. m p u and we manage to pause the grain deal. i am confident that russia, one of the foremost nations of the un and permanent member of the security council, will observe the you and child to as a continent we are being negatively affected in terms of why economies. the prices of commodities have gone up, particularly grain and fertilizer in the process of fuel have also gone off. and this is a consequence of the war that is ongoing. we would like to see further engagements with regards to the processes that were leads to the end of this will. still, we decided to come to your country at this moment as

a delegation that represents the african continent. and thus, who'd like to demonstrate to you our friendship, which has always existed between russia and africa? for the more we came to listen to you as who used to hear the voice of the russian people. so they were facing these crisis. not only does it have an impact on 2 friendly brotherly neighboring countries, but it also has repercussions for the whole world. and in particular, it has an impact on our african continent for the time being uh, the so called black sea deal, which uh, foresees the uninhibited expert. the few crania and wade and russian greens and fertilizers to the global markets uh is working on paper. but the russian side of the deal is being actively sabotaged by western countries out there was one other important subject that i want to mention that came out as a result in this meeting and at it was on the subject of refugees,

especially children that were removed from the ukraine or that change that location . as you may know, the international criminal court earlier issued an arrest warrant for the russian president during the charges of forcefully removing the children from your praying and one of the points of the peace proposal. dad was brought by the african delegation here to st. petersburg concluded the return of those children uh to their families to which vladimir put inside the russian never objected to that. and many of the children that were moved to russia from the conflict area were our friends opposed to do to estimate the children they are sacred. we were taking them out of the complex zone, saving their lives and their health. no one intended to separate children from their families. we were transferring entire orphanages. this was done as legally legally,

as they were officially represented by the heads of those establishments. we've never been against children, reuniting with their families in case their relatives appear. there are no obstacles to that. there have been none, and there will never be any. so, so you machine as the russian leader re, to rate that russian remains open to amy piece proof of puzzles when it comes to ukraine or when it comes to the way international system. should durand here, uh, stress that uh, every country has a key interest in being solver and in having its territorial integrity protected. but the principles of the un charter should apply equally to old. they should not be cherry pick um that if all countries subscribe to the same standard or, or the same international uh las rather than uh, cherry picked rules uh selected by certain group of countries them and only them

security and peace could be insurance for all what russia is foreign minister, so good allow for off he got involved. he's welcome. they 10 point piece proposal from the south africa's latest saying it reflects principals that must go support. please don't put them up for that, which they'll just present rema foes announced 10 closest our colleagues identifying them on the well known 12 points of the chinese proposal. those part that are close to their position, they include guaranteeing that there are no double standards, that all human principles are respected, that there are no unilateral sanctions or attempts to ensure one's own security at the expense of the security of others. those are the fundamental approaches that we share. our partners from the african unit have shown an understanding of the true causes of the crisis created by the west. it is necessary to get out of the situation by address some of these causes through the development of concrete actions to eliminate them. these are what has been undermining justifiable security

on the european continent for many years of but as we were talking on here too, i lo been the hub also called the university of zambia, who, who says that the geo political importance of the african continent is growing and african countries independently coming up with their own peace initiative for ukraine might have come, was a bit of a surprise to southern western pounds. i think now if it goes to what you are increasing, when you look at, you know, the, the, the kind of, you know, create a global architecture. we have sort of, you know, uni, pull our world. and that's basically benefits the west where the united states of america udall. i booked the dictates. what i forgot to do and you know, our african countries would live. so we faced conflict. we often strengthened ties between ad i saw on the often conditions where, you know, they have right increasing roll of brakes in the global trade, global politics. so africa coming out with that initiative and then being