of course, he's probably is where the january might be going back to the issue of china's motivation or trying to interest. there is a rock consensus here in russia that's the washington chose to make. the ukraine crisis means a tools of words. you know, joe political struggle for dissolving gemini if that's strategy and doesn't succeed, don't you're seeing that the americans will have to come up with something new and perhaps controlling china more directly? yeah, well, i mean, there's a lot of voices in washington these days. you know, talking about a political solution to ukraine so that you can, you know, get more resource into the, in the pacific. and whether that's talking about china, from china's perspective, as sort of saying then i think that the, we are the, the, the chinese side is dedicated to a, you know, trying to get a peaceful solution in k as well as a, you know, not maintaining good relationship with the west as well with the union was in other

states. but unfortunately, you know, united states has of this mentality of, uh you know, it's of no use these china is a big challenge, wants to have a competition. strategic competition was trying but he's, it's really about the competition. i mean the americans liked to mention this uh, 3. see um. right. well as the competition confrontation, cooperation, cooperation. uh, which one which senior thing is the most visible for the time being. um i think of the task that a competition is more, i mean competition, north confrontation, co quotes, competition, confrontation, i think controls that confrontation, that is competition and proxy come from to i think this sometimes it's even, you know, very political boundaries between confrontation and competition from china side, we try to publish the views, this was confrontation, but i think it will be my view. competition really is about one issue about i want you know that this is one area that clearly be doing conference washing down. this

is the concerns tennis court interest as there's no way we come back off. so you know, that's more of a confrontation reset. the professor go, we have to look at the core motivation of adversaries. i mean by that, this is something that the china is the worst strategist did the throughout the centuries. do you think the americans, troy care are primarily about taiwan and it's freedom, whatever. it's a governance or the core issue here is china and it's rise. a legitimate trials and are forced to me is how one, you know, it is a small items of thousands miles away. american people don't even can't even find it on a map, right? so you know, this is really one of the issues that they can use by washington to, to contain, try not to be thinking it's such a print, attain or to undermine. i think a distinction between containments and undermining is so this is a semantic history. my view, i mean those things, so like what have come from competition, i'm from foundation and yeah,

i think the things that you sort of organizations in wash and dry me the point of intelligence community, let's see. i didn't do those things to any of my other countries. um, but, you know, i think it's the, the, the nebraska most things, the america's interest to essentially to keep china down. okay. it can not tar away . they turn off how down. i know there's some rules, i'll say less than 2 thirds of us size. so i, you know, it does not challenge america supremacy on the see, for example, in overseas operations, things like that. you know, this is essentially, i remain in big factory without any voice, without any ambition or aspiration of its all, and i'll give it out any dignity anymore. luminous has done that. it is a limited power. limited influence, i think, decimals. i'm not really a country right from that that i don't think washington can't even dream of achieving. there's no way they can do that. now is who i understand them,

but the you are, you know, you're, you're worked in the united states for a pretty long time. and i'm interested in the ultimate strategy. what do you think is the preferred goal that they are trying to pursue? what kind of china? again i ask you before, and i read towards what kind of china would sue them? is it the china that has no voice? a china that has no, i'm vision in a china that essentially serves as a, an industrial park for the united states. yeah, i think um, well 1st of all, you know, quite a few years ago, the time when china was successful. the then the big cio, there was the expectation that china with the, according to a contractually that washington desires off that. so it's, and they didn't have that. i mean, i think that represents the sort of a arrogance and, and who bursting opinion on this side, that is only one good model of development. that's the only good model of development. china doesn't go into that direction. so that disappointed. now, back to the old question about, you know, the distinction between limited or no voice. and i think, you know,

from that perspective, poverty does do it. i don't think they expect china has no voice. i mean, come, i is just impossible. i think the, what do you desire is that china has contain establishes some kind of analogy of a nato allies in, in the pacific region, specifically targeting china. and to see china has limited inference. associate china has the limits of, uh say, an international say, i think this is probably more realistic they, they are looking for. okay, we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments feature the the

the welcome back to wells, of course, with john gall professor and vice president for research and strategic studies at the university of international business and economics and china for an expert present going before the break, we were talking about the american preferred vision, all 5 of china, which china doesn't really one for itself on the you mentioned before that at any a times by china to build independent relationship with other countries is viewed as something negative, for example, your neutrality stands on, the ukraine and conflict is interpreted as the

a siding with russia. and i've heard one very interesting, russian experts suggests that the best way to describe a russian china is relationship wouldn't be not when, when, but actually not losing all fluids because it's contra, pursue that its own policy, its own economic goals. but they have a key interest in not seeing the other fail, especially as the washington tries to undermine both of them. do you agree with that that i totally agree. i think this is a very interesting now and do you think other countries man dom that as well because it's no secret that the russian china have many controversial issues. we have plenty of border disputes between us a 30 years ago. most of them, uh so no one else was clearly on many issues. we have not overlapping position and yet i think both sides fines value in the relationship. besides, do think such model could be applied the broadband, although only between the 2 countries,

but perhaps more broadly international. surely, i think look at the long look at china's neighbors in this deal you've been talking about can play everywhere. and then china's way she was india with south korea, with japan. you know, we will have those issues that value cause conflict of interest. but, you know, there are also other things in cooperative nature, the way more outweigh the, the, the middle of things that way. you know, you have all kinds of issues and you're living a very comfortable weights. and my next question, because one of the country that claims in a charlie to big player on an international stages in the, in india is neutrality is clearly very different from china's and neutrality. was the biggest to distinguish, are there i think overall, you know, i don't list them drastically different, but i think probably the the, the largest a big difference is that in this relationship with the united states i, you know, i think that's one area. if you look at watch at those options,

china and india both adoptive want to same. you try to position both have bought tons of oil from much so. right. and you can, which country is from the more political pressure? it's actually china, lots of change, right? so that says something about washington is not very consistent position with respect to this issue. so i think um, and if you asked me the big difference between india and china and that's probably the biggest deal for us. i mean this a 2nd was a 2nd. the agenda you alluded to regarding china from washing this prospective. there's another agenda behind this. i don't think that agenda exist was back to indiana culture, or it might be the exact opposite actually. well, the americans and out pretty open and courting indians into the various anti chinese initiatives and of the american defense secretary lloyd doors. and while visiting india recently promised, a whole range of the most advanced military technologist and sort of inviting india to be the this, what, what did they did he say to kick complimented in this leading role as

a security provider in, in the, in the pacific guns in are knowledgable people can smell and to try and its sentiment there is also do you seen being visible by india is a very important piece in america's china policy. campbell, i think he is responsible for the english pacific because amateurs had come. okay. yeah, in the uh, the national security council, i think he was previously said that is a very important component of america's trying to policy. so, you know, this clearly says that the united states intends to establish the same kind of allies. so like somewhere like the middle and drag india 8. 1 thing that's regrettably, my view that every time washington goes on to try to court on l, i a stablish lives. what can it off on the table? nothing other than weapons of tags, jeff fido, so these things, um,

this is not the way you know, people from china, which on these 2 things, when we talked about mutual economic business interests. i do some business trade investment. these are the things that, that are conducive to humans development. i mean, this is quote, construction. what does the weapons and then jeff on us to destruction, right? so i think that's a key difference. i wanna, i wanna emphasize, you mentioned career campbell, and just the other day she, uh, expressed his cold the, the upcoming visit by indian prime minister mo mo, did to a washington would quote, unquote consecrate the relationship with india as the most important for the united states. in the world, i suppose it had the british and the head of the europeans. again, do you think the indians will be tempted by something like that because they, they also will all be different and differences between india and china and on the responding india has been a key member of the no, no, no a lines movement before and i think they're also pretty sure then making sure that

the neutrality in their own interest are respected. no, i, i think um, as to the result of my intention to say that india is to, has invited yet. i think it's an of curious to out there whether your daddy would ever get onto the boat of washington. i give you one specific example on, you know, anything that they think this is where we have this crossing wise, the united states, australia in japan and in india. and i think one of the meetings recently is didn't go there when he discuss policies against china and ukraine regarding ukraine. so as i think of, you know, there might be a, a difference between india and other plan members and also on united states also has of, i will say, um, sort of a preferential differentiated treatment was back to his allies. they had the 1st to wait till the ally, for example, u. k. in this case, australia,

they're talking about this august. your right did only include india. it only includes a penny. and it's that even, you know, did this on the back of the french thing just now. um, we are all mindful of the difficulties between that or differences between india and china. for example, in the is to know the region where you have thousands of soldiers that are sort of jack suppose, one across and other and for a long time, a conflict like this would be seen as irresolvable. but after china's reason, the foreign policy successes, for example, with this out is in the rainy as many rushing out i was asking if that was possible between. so here a being there on wise that's not possible to solve those long standing and difficulties and differences between china and india wouldn't. that'd be a great benefit. not all right to the region, but the typical world. yeah. i think um, you know, the border clash was, um,

you know, the soldiers sort of shuffle each of the items, the dental 5 fights. so if i shop, say there were this, why the? yeah, that's the fuel right. and the casualties. i mean, like, quite a few comments like, right. so what would it be you know, exercise for us quite uh, english drain way. i think. and this is actually quite a few years ago. it's been quite some time is, is uh, you know, this piece between the 2 sides along the board. and so i think, you know, both sides realize that it's important not to escalate things to set aside the differences and you know, coin 6 piece for october talking about no man land actually in that, in that region. so, you know, this is something that we can talk about, or you go say for the wrong is, doesn't have to be standing, the weight of the 2 countries a relationship. so over the last, over the past here, i think the chinese foreign policy stands has changed. quite visibly, i mean like i've been covering a foreign policy or for quite some time and it's visible in the,

in the statements of uh for an impulse as spokesman. it's far more outspoken, pharma proactive. and i wonder if the calculus all one piece has also changed. i mean, isn't it now more expensive for the, for the chinese to have india as an adversary then it was, let's say, 2 years ago. and i think one thing on page includes clearly recognizes that china is facing a very difficult international environment because washington has intensified his efforts to essentially establish some lines. as i said, in a sense, that even established in the lies somewhat analogous to the nato in the, in the pacific region. so that's a big challenge. and i think to tell us comedy, uh um, we adjust some of his uh, uh, following policy status to it. in terms of tactics and policies and, and the mattress. um i think of the space uh that having one more frame from

china's perspective its very important. so i think respect to india. uh, you know, the more important things, as i said, we can set aside our differences and you know, work together especially to prevent india. the important piece of, i guess, a ton of policy. you know, it's a horrible scenario thinking from pages perspective to see in the of the photos under the washington. so lines they some of the defense lines. this trying to establish him as well, from my conversations with india and experts, uh new daily is in no rush to be an american proxy, especially given uh what they saw in in the ukraine in crisis. and this is something that i want to finish on. um, it's a huge, huge problem for russia. obviously not only drill political, but also a moral problem, a human problem because they have uh many ukrainians living here. we have most of us have relatives living there. china has proposed its own piss initiative and i

think china has a sort of different strategy of approaching countries down the united states. do you think there will ever come a point when the ukrainians may be a sort of a responsive to what china has to offer either on the front of reconstruction or on some other front? do you think there's a possibility, any possibility? and that was asking realistically, for uh, the ukraine is to accept somebody else's health other than the west. i think of 1st of all, it's key. so what do respond in the presence of the school has said that it welcomes this plan. and the is adams a in this plan that a life sites. so i think in a look at this plan, it's more of a set of principles. you my view. it's a, it's a set of guiding principles and a which a negotiation process community for the style. and in a way,

i think this very typical chinese of the way of negotiation that's 1st set of cider and so a suffolk or some standards, some, some principles as a foundation upon which we can, you know, talk. so i think this was the 1st step in terms of a concrete negotiation. i would imagine that b g is willing to take a more active role. but ultimately, i think it's very much up to washington to endorse the ukrainian cycle. i'm starting the process that's done being very abrupt and then they're not. and the straightforward on absolutely. you know, she cannot keep fighting for one day. if washing that doesn't wants to support it or at least to support a continue fighting like it can continue fighting. but they can always, you know, say that we don't want to fight anymore with or without the weapons. do you think there is enough leverage for training keith to try to persuade them to disagree with the statement? i think, you know, you're not think, washington. well,

it's tremendous even from some keys. um, so whether keep fighting or stop fighting and watching, that's a big thing. oh, i truly believe that the watching has a big se. uh at this point. um, i think a washer. it's a still wants to to fight. but doesn't mean the american policies is always just new selection is going on and we're starting to see and increasing the launch boys from washington, especially on the g o p side, talking about a piece solution, right? so talking about fighting and access strategy. we have to live in there. thank you very much for your time. and thank you for watching hope to share again and well the part the of the

. the shell is so hard to be even had the sellers where we were hiding. it feels like they were on the hunt for it. before a rise, the neighboring houses were burning. archie, here is one of the many families whose lives have been shattered by ukrainian chalet. the, as the death toll from it is really red engine, need rises to 6. we hear from the distraught father a 15 year old boy who was among those killed the stymies. unlike any of the time they don't differentiate between young old people, they fly randomly. india or kansas, b u. s. and the e. u of protectionism, claiming it obstructs developing nations. switching the clean energy,

the coming to live in the russian capital. this is our t international. i'm rachel beloved here with the top stories of the our welcome to the program. and we begin with the latest from the conflict. a new crane, as it continues to take a daily talk on civilians with lives lost or offended. people are faced with a difficult decision to stay in the face of danger, from ukrainian shelling or to fleet. some have chosen to find shelter and russia as ortiz is where she is on reports. a team has made a colossal push to brand the ongoing role as the nationwide uprising against russian invaders. uncomfortable images of young men going out of their way to escape and resist mobilization, swept under the rug, as well as the fact that the mid the refugee crisis millions ran into the embrace

of the supposed abuse cling to russia. this is one of such families. alexander and marie, mary used to live a quiet, reclusive life deep in the local forestry. everything changed when there alone cabin became a target for ukraine's troops. denial slowly made way for acceptance, and the couple made a heart wrenching decision to flee to the nearest town of cream and naya. they left behind their old life, but not ukrainian bones. to rebuild the structure because we were constantly being shelled, they struck a neighbor. it landed here, if there were no such barrier here, the fragments would have hurt us. recently they shelled us my wife even went to the doctor because of poisoning. apparently they fired some kind of mock, and that's how it was on the $26.00, they showed us so hard that the even had the seller where we were hiding,

it feels like they were on the hunt for it before a rice, the neighboring houses were burning my husband and i tried to put out the fires, the neighbors says, all these shillings actually sought to displace as many people as possible, even though it was the ukrainian smooth attack. you know, so even before the russian center, the city on the crane brought the soul, this trouble rush, i did not fly a single shot to the city. russian soldiers were greeted as the real liberators. and now we have the same good attitude towards them. they share the rations with us, we ask the ukrainians, why are you hitting us? they say to create more refugees. so they leave their homes and head to the west. this or it is to make good money out of that. in a way that worked to date, russia has shelter, the more ukranian refugees than any of the country. and these people regret nothing. russians are the 2nd largest ethnic group in ukraine following the

2014 revolution 2 went on the mission to make the life of every single one of them miserable. you will not see groups were nourished, as they hovered above the little. probably see if that of who in 2014, when does open right sector appeared, they gave books disclose and how to teach the killing of russian people. my children from kindergarten were forced to speak ukrainian. well the issue was that the right sector was created and it seemed they, they can do whatever they want. they just call themselves a right sector. remember, they came to us to the hunters cabin. we were still guarding the area, but they broke the locks for what? i say tell me, i'll open it for you. the answer that they are right sector members, and they can do whatever they want those bastards, they beat the elderly and women. that's fine for them, but as the fighting began, they immediately screwed up. since last year,

ukraine lost huge waves of its land. as for the people here though, with every policy, every step of the way t if lost them long before that i get done every poor thing from the don't bass oxy . there's really a master to you. frank has attempted to justify key of support for stipend mendera, saying that the gnostic collaborator, who is responsible for killing jewish russian and polish civilians during world war 2 is the source of inspiration for the country during tough times. the last is we have no view of such personalities has been dear, it is very different from the view of most ukrainians. indeed, these peoples of ports ignacio ideology, this part of a struggle for the independence of ukraine. they wanted to see a crate without juice, has won us without poles. call me this and many more. but ukraine is experiencing a come a full tragedy today is being attacked aggressive. and ukraine is in search of its

heroes. we don't like these heroes, but for most of craniums, if they heroes who fought for independence. as a reminder, a supplement their loved the organization of ukrainian nationalist, which advocated for ethnic nationalism targeting of jews. they've been there and his follow words, collaborated with nazi germany and exchange for support for ukraine's independence . during world war 2, russian president vladimir putin claimed the new nazi support in ukraine was one of the reasons for launching the military offensive against the country. moving since childhood, i've always had many jewish friends. they say zalinski is not a jew. he's a disgrace of jews under his accomplice. there's other ones considered hay rows of ukraine today. they are those who, today's ukraine, you know, forward ease of defending both individually and in their audiology. how can we not fight against this? russian was the country, the stuff of the most on this. we will never forgive this. if this is not in the

are not susan, then what is it we have the right to consider? that's how tall get to do. you know, if i ukraine, is one of our key objectives with what journal is in ryder. no boys, your mileage believes that israel's reversal of it stands on anti semitism is unprecedented. a hi, absolutely. appalled to here investor ruskie said is this is, this is unprecedented. i think israel has in the past, always objectives to any country in europe, glorifying its world war 2 collaborators with hitler, germany, no matter how. busy a key to their national identity. they were this to say, okay, well, you know, these people who guard them is here us and we should accept that is fine. that is just on president. mean is israel to officially changing the policy and saying that, you know, with our semitism is ok so long as the people locally say it's ok. that's this on heard up. so the modern ukrainian national identity eighty's the built around

hatred of russians. you know, you're there using the ss ruins, they're using the all the symbolism and then they're like, oh, well, these are actually interim symbols. no, no. the people who designed 2 symbols very specifically told the western impressed just a couple years ago. they were modeling this stuff on nazi symbolism. it's just now it's being covered off because of this whole ongoing conflict and the attempt to justify all this by all we're to poor victims of aggression. well guess what? everybody says that every time at least 6 palestinians had been killed, including a 15 year old boy, and more than 90 others wounded during a rate by israeli troops in the west bank. the father of the slain teenager of law, charlotte israel, for its actions in the home such as soon as the shed. awesome. it was 15 years old . he was a good young man with good manners. he was still a kid in school. he didn't harm anyone. he was a simple kid, loved life. people cite the army was, should not then and the refuge it comes to entrance,

the stymies unlike any all the time. they don't differentiate between young old people. they fly randomly to his friends. so a short with him, one of them, a kids on the same age. this is omar. he's friends who died in april with nose these vicious occupation which does not differentiate between young old people. there is nothing peaceful coming out of it. nothing peaceful. the massive fireflies are rubbed it as is really forces moved into the city of janine for you for it showed is really helicopter gunship striking at target a locally based mil isn't group. did you need for de claim that it's spiders had fired at one of the helicopters, forcing its retreats, as well as in bushing military vehicles. are these middle east correspondent maria foreigners not has more. early in the morning on monday,

the idea of entered the city of jeanine in the north, although to find westbank to arrest several ones. the militants reported that belonging to these landing g had, per military, palestinian grove, fighting against israel, that israel 1st and the seas as a terrorist organization. these really military met a strong resistance on the ground from locals. people with guns and stones rushed through these railing military. the idea of responded with fire. and this is how the classes started on the ground. later israel was trying to pull its armored vehicles out of the town, but palestinians were apparently new the route of the forces withdrawal. designated explosives damaging the vehicles. israel had the dispatcher, how he called through to the area to help trapped military and to get its troops out safely. the palestinian authority has already slammed these really actions, calling it a crime. this is what the palestinian prime minister has to say was dummy. there was a bloody morning in janine due to the occupational me storming of the city which continues until this.