etsy, lot lines up in my neighborhood at the northwood long island, b a medical center. and you know, something interesting. he was there on a residency any guess what? what particular medical for you in psychiatry that he had to go in front of a board of trying psychiatry. and can you this each and every one of them that he should be in the program. and he grad, incredible. and then that's when i got that phone call that sort of each i lived so, and i happened to call with one of my agents and i go down to visit him. now let me tell you this guy look like a movie. saw just got off the call cause weird is eva saw sunglasses you know, cells in john, if i didn't know better, i want to introduce them to my own daughter. yeah. right. he's yes, the next marine doctor. right. you know, spending on nation zeros. i'd say come on, the i says when i go join the family. wow. if i didn't know very well. so he's

given me the same bottom drawer story, you know, and then when i started challenging him, he's not so charming. he doesn't want to talk in the next thing. you know, he leaves the country where he's the country. he goes to zimbabwe africa. the reason is awfully africa because it's such a shortage of physicians. there he's killing women and children and pregnant women . my god. and they have an arrest warrant, say him, but he returns the united states because he had to renew his passport before he went on yet to another country. and we arrested him, but not to murder because we didn't have any evidence that he learned anybody at all. here we were sent him, but every federal ages, they re crime line to the government. he said lie or it's of the government. if you, why do a federal agent you're guilty of a felony?

that's right, and 3 is in jail full line to the government. so that gave us a window of opportunity, a window of 3 years to trying to prove that he murdered any of our nation's heroes at the north port va medical center. and that's what started me on, on that particular journey. so let me ask you to why is it so difficult to think for medical professionals to be able to spot a colleague who, who can kill in a hospital environment. medical professionals, of course, are supposed to 1st do no harm. is it, is that it, that they're supposed to be hillers, and not killers. so people generally don't suspect their colleagues of these terrible crimes. it will look if you are so inclined to commit a number is what perfection and what location might you choose? right? tape, you might choose a profession that kind of gives you the legal power of life and this over an

individual what professions do we know how that, you know, you, you might want to take a profession where people take, you know, have dedicated themselves to saving lives so who is going to believe that in this wonderful universe of compassionate people who have dedicated themselves to saving lives, there's going to be someone hiding in that group and that's essentially taking lives. it's almost impossible to believe. i mean, all your coworkers have dedicated themselves to saving people. you see, miracles performed almost every day in the hospital and to believe that somebody is intentionally murdering people. is very, very difficult. you know, it's very difficult for the fireman to believe that one of his co workers is actually starting fine. that's right, right. it's the same thing here. it's

a universe of such dedicated professional people that no one wants to bully. now one of their co workers would be intentionally taking lots and i can understand that i can say we are speaking with an investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his investigations, into medical serial killers. we have to take a short break, but you're not going to want to miss the 2nd half of this conversation. stay tuned . we'll be right back. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the. 2 the, the kind of situation that you find, although i think it's a great political opportunity to call for kids, for the 1st time to articulate the words, to say, listen, we have a multi, a whole lot of relationships with all the powers of the, of the world. and what to dictate relationships between african countries and those

black ones is the national interest. and i would see that happening at the moment. the the, the most reason is munoz curtis. imagine if you speak russian, keep your voice down while out and about. so we met about the cargo for us perspectives. don't put your human symbols on display, the decision space, reach the guide. so you guys don't talk to strangers, the void noisy gatherings and riley's, which was wondering what, but she didn't rely on get them in the motor. she's eating your colleagues and

perhaps also your friends think you're guilty because your russian let you know the boom. so you're welcome, i do them that was mindset from it. so i'd be glad to which is the team that does put teaching styles is be a good fit genetic bundle of buying it. so the exception to buy the specific store shortly concerning the the the ability to produce clear, cuz it says here it is. instead of both, i'm not going to be on the bottom

of the dora slash. yeah. because i would, and i just wonder if i was just a little after much me on this website because the symbol which is good for those who release to feet. know all you simply want to put through the through the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we are speaking with renowned investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his work tracking down medical serial killers, those medical professionals who become self murderers. welcome back again, bruce. glad to have you. thank you, bruce to tell us

a little bit about motivation, the average serial killer, when, when one thinks about john wayne gacy or gary allan ridge way or dentist reader is a sociopath or a psychopath. who becomes more and more bold, often even taunting the police. but that's not the case with medical serial killers . is it tell us about their motivation? what leads them to do it? you know, i'll tell you what i've seen over the years. um, not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but this is one i've witness. i would say the number one, the number one reason that i've seen is something called munchausen syndrome by proxy right? now much as an syndrome by proxy is, is often displayed when a mother will maybe intentionally harm a child and bring that child into the hospital. show the staff what a caring, dedicated, outstanding parent they are, and is trying to be so compassionate. please help my child and they want the staff

to give them understanding and compassion. well, in some strange way, this is the same thing with medical sale kills you think about medical serial killers. when you look at their evaluations, like ok, nurses, ok, doctors. except when it comes to code and a cold, i mean an emergency, a cold blow. and when you read the evaluations, you will see that big in an outstanding when it comes to code one of my medical serial killers. kristin gilbert, the doctors would say, you know, if i ever cody, i will one kristen, you'll get there. she starts barking or is it the young in terms was scanned out of her mind. she case control, she's a hero. she's outstanding. why? this is one of these people want because throughout the whole life they will kind of put aside and they didn't get the attention that they. ready wanted i do when

they ever consider there was continued more zeros and heroes. now, son and this is an opportunity for them to get the attention that they never had before. and now they don't care about the victims. the victims is just an end to the means. they care about the attention that comes to them and that i've seen throughout the world is perhaps the number one reason. it's not exclusively, some people likes wind. oh, i just loved the power of life and death. nasa your power and then over the summer, what incredible high for him. you know, why didn't incredible turn on that he could that by god that he had the power of life and death and, and that's also come with you. a few other reasons sometimes is a case ongoing in texas. now we're a doctor is just pissed off at management and his co workers and he says, you know, i'm the best doctor. he, he can even compare it to me and you know what they did to me. they took away some

of my privileges, they reduced my office, they cut my money back out, show them how fill them when patients start going unexpectedly, they know we always have a point value and they will come back to me. my god. a. yeah, pretty pretty. yes, that those are some of the most common reasons that i've seen throughout the world mattresses. be able to walk 2 or 3 years ago. i entertain the idea of writing a book about serial killers. i. i've written 8 non non fiction books. i thought it would be kind of a fun departure and i especially wanted to talk about their motivation and what made them so bold before they were finally caught. so i wrote letters to 8 or 9 serial killers who were in prison, including some of the most famous names, many of them, including gary alan ridgeway the green river killer, the b t k killer son of sam tex watson from the manson family. they actually

answered me, but their answers were all the same. they said they found jesus in prison, jesus had forgiven them. jesus was, was saving their lives, they were living their lives for jesus, etc, etc. ridgeway even sent me. it was a big package. it had 50 religious pamphlets in it, and he asked me to distribute these pamphlets around my neighborhood. so of course i true, i threw them away. but my image, your conclusion was that, that there manipulative behavior continues in prison all these years later that, that this manipulative personality is what keeps them going. they think it's going to get them something to, at least profess to be christian, for example. so my question is, is that also common among the serial killers once they've been caught? and if it is, how are they able to,

to cover it up for so long as they build their medical careers? well, i guess it sort of a 2 point question. the 1st part about being uh once, once they are incarcerated, well, many of them will decline to speed because there are additional murders out there, god. right? and they tried and convicted and even received the death penalty, depending on wherever it occurred. so they're not going to do anything else, right? because when we suspect these medical serial killers with killing 36, the a 100 people often we don't have the proof on hand that they killed that many people. right? you know, we have narrow it down to the very, very best cases that there are and pursue those cases. but they know they know there are other victims out there. and we should be able to prove yet another bit

them, especially with some believe that they gave us, they could be retry, prosecuted and possibly even executed. so they're not going to say anything at all about that. all right, and you know it's something interesting because when the whistle blow is in the case of course in gilbert, this is a real example of whistle blowers fan, had floyd backgrounds and you know, some of them had a substance abuse problems. they had other personal problems, and they knew this was gonna all come out. but they had incredible coverage to come for us and tell us what had happened. well, what do you think happened after the trial? so of course, in gilbert, who were your legs killed about 30 or by nations heroes at north hampton b, a medical center in massachusetts. she goes to trial and she's found guilty. and

the whistle blowers were just tremendous. we wouldn't have known of that as a living for themselves. so when they return to work, do you think that they agree it is? he will say, oh no. just the opposite. uh, just the opposite. because a lot, how do you do the costs? now when people drive by the hospital, they all say, call this the hospital, let's say if my dad, that's the hospital, it does wonderful science. no be think that's the hospital with the medical serial killer work. now why did you have to do that? you room for all of us, you room the reputation not. thank you for getting rid of the murder that they never, ever. all they heard was criticism from the co workers. why did you call these 50 general? why did you believe bring the police in here? why did you bring one of his bad publicity to us while genetically credible? bruce, tell us where people can learn more about the work that you do and about your book?

a sure, well the website is same as the name of the work behind the myrtle car dot com. it details all the stories of medical serial killers inside the va that i personally investigated, including um, doctors wango and christine gilbert and others, including a, a physician in albany that old in medical records to put the veterans into research studies. they should have never been ended and they were murdered. i mean, they're really some incredible stories in that block. and also, you know, there's a, there's a television show out this cool. um, what's it called very scary people. yes, thank you very scary. p h o n, and it has 2 levels. honest, wind go yes, but i like to find people to um, to read the book, to go to the website, to email me. i get emails all the time from veterans and non veterans and people

who have been victimized by this. and you know, and so one thing we have to mention here is a whole human side to this john, you know, we talk about the statistics in the message, but these are human games we're talking about. but for the family isn't such harsh. oh, so could you imagine, do i mean if i, if i rang your doorbell one day and i said, excuse me, sir, you know, my name is bruce saffron. and i'm from new v a. and we have reason to believe that your father's death was of a suspicious nature. can i go to the cemetery and dw nadia runs asked me, could you imagine your visit like that? could you imagine sitting in a court room and hearing all this evidence of how your father was murdered at a v, a hospital after he spent his entire life? yeah, same thing, america reads, right, well the terry, the, the movie,

the hassle. imagine the human side is, is how you would feel. and sometimes when we talk about this to 6, how many memories and the techniques and all that we forget to mention the human side of the families and the families are always been just amazing for me. just fantastic people. fantastic. well, thank you so much for spending this time with us. this was fascinating and we were very happy to have you. so i wanna thank bruce for joining us and for sharing his fascinating experiences. and thanks to our viewers for watching the author, bret easton, ellis, one said, quote, it strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not a bad and cool place on quote. in many cases, i'm sorry to say that's true, but we're fortunate to have people like bruce hackman out there doing the right thing. i'm john kerry echo, thanks for watching the whistle blowers until next time.

2 2 2 2 2 2 the or the little one? no, no, no, no, no, not for to most of the location of the unit 731 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was

to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program that the world had every now through you know, to production with it. so i guess it was the great deal to go look at it suddenly, a little bit as little as you keep a move model. uh, mazda thought this minute nguyen from the, from the sale. i don't understand. i wish to know about doing so need. i know you gave him some more or less than a j o i had to put on with this kind of them of the a party bill because you cannot push the couch. nice. so point festival to deal with a 00, want to fund this, should buy

a new on it on the site gets animal 7 won't, don't the, on the, on the put the ticket bucket together the, the deputy combined to all the russian joins forces calls for the wagner private medical group to stop their rebellion as the defense minister dismissed as accusations that they carried out strikes against that group on friday and verified . but it shows a high presence of soldiers and they're all starved on guns. come on sunset, as the governments of the neighboring regions says, a minute you come boy is heading towards the city and ukrainian forces gather for offensive operations in the office, almost area taking advantage on board and see if you have any precautions for vacations us going to the bush and the defense ministry, the

was just on 8 am on sunday morning, k and the russian capital. mine is peach of scots and here's how the world is looking as we had it's the weekend. thank you for joining us. and we stopped off of cost with our breaking it. new story rushes federal security service has opened a criminal case against the volume. the chief guinea precaution on charges of organizing an armed rebellion as a crime that carries a jail sentence between 12 and 20 years. while the russian army general, sort of a sort of beacon as cold for wagner to stop this rebellion and obey the orders of the russian president. yeah, but as you go, so people do the commanders and soldiers or the vault in a bmw seat or we have come a long way together. we have fought together. we have taken risks together. we have suffered losses together. we have one together. we are one blood we are warriors. i owed you to stop before it's too late. it is necessary to be the orders,

the president of the russian federation, disrupted con, voice to return them to their permanent basis, the sole own problems peacefully under the leadership of the supreme commander in chief of the armed forces of the russian federation. it's on friday because you have to use the possibility of targeting. one of the companies comes in a block, it's a start. allegedly kidding fights is evolved to module must go and deal with those responsible, wanting the military to stay out of his way. the russian defense minister dismissed the obligations of this information. the coming spokesman demetrius gulf said to the brushing president by the net present has been briefed about the situation. and it's all the necessary measures are being taken. well meanwhile, versus f as b has cold on foreign and fights as to refuse to carry out the guardians orders and to detain him. the big golden statements are actually calls for the beginning of an armed civil conflict on the territory of the russian federation. and his actions

are a stab in the back to russian service. men fighting with pro fastest ukrainian forces . we call on the p. m. c. fighters not to make err repairable mistakes, to stop any forceful actions against the russian people, not to carry out for gordon's criminal and treacherous orders and to take measures to detain him. rushes, prosecutor general has grieved president vladimir prudent about the criminal case. open the gates. you have given you precautions the head of the fragment group, and it's found to again, he's be accused of organizing, an orchestrating and rebellion. this follows a rushes, defense ministries, revelation. they have said that the ukranian armed forces i explore, we think the crisis in the massing logic, logic garrison's of troops on the flanks of the back taking advantage of precautions, publications to organize the situation. the key, every jamie, the back move tactical direction is concentrating units of the 31st brigade on the

36 brigade of the marine corps, the armed forces of ukraine on the starting volumes for offensive operations. just a quick reminder, the town was taken by the wagner forces in this place where the crate and armies suffered to a colossal defeat. they had branded by mood as a full interest and made repeated promises that they would not leave and would not abandon the town which they still eventually did. so right now that trying to take revenge and the flanks of the back moments, they have seen some of the most famous fighting over the course of ukraine's counter offensive, then began uh at the start of this month. we in fact have just returned from the town of solid. uh, it's a new within the sub of, of box moved, and the prices over there on the front. they revealed to us that we recently over the course of the past of the 24 hours since 4 o'clock in the morning until about the 6 o'clock in the morning. the next day,

the ukrainian forces attempted some 17 attacks on a small section of the front, so it is an important, really important direction for the ukrainian forces where they're trying to save face really off to the defeats that they had suffered. now, the russian defense industry as though also said that the allegations and will accusations made by you've given you progression again. a quick reminder, he had accused the russian defense ministry and brushed his regular army of carrying out a strike against a training site. deep on the home drunk killing again, according to progression law. so by his men and the russian defense ministry has said that it is a fake the russian federal security service at same time and said that, well they basically, they opened the, the criminal case against uh, the head of the vitamin group. and that the cool leak on everybody on every wagner

fights and know to follow the wood, isn't that it is in fact playing in favor of the key forces a. so this is the situation as it is as of now, of course that is a developing story on the it is big story for russian because it is a mid, a, uh, a vicious war against uh, the keys regime and the kid forces. so we are closely following the events, and we will be bringing you all the latest as to how this crisis unfolds. and we also do know, according to treat best of the spokes on full bladder, my poor and he's being brief to constantly on the situation regarding this crisis and the he's, he's tailoring his decisions accordingly. meanwhile, the governor of versus of auto and he has vision has said it's the come way of minutes of vehicles is heading towards real stuff on done by footage. emerging on line shows a high military presence near the rest of the month sensor. the gordon appears in

the video claiming that the consensus as well as the local efforts have been taken under control by wagner forces. and us as the regions of governor has a locals to refrain from shopping to the city center and not to leave the homes. and they must go local authorities announced until terrorism measures to be put in place as a precaution in the capital region. as police cortege was seeing us go to military vehicles in the kremlin, in the early hours of the saturday morning was to follow all the latest developments of the russian miniature group baldness rebellion and much more. the shots ahead of us all websites on the seat adults. meanwhile, in the ukrainian capital video footage circulating on social media report the shows debris you from an ad defend system. the soft aid store and upon the building in key of the cities may have it's all the courage go says the incidence was caused by

an operating era for now to a ukrainian cycle on the residential area and don't boss why once everything has been killed and one wounded and keeps latest strike on the done yet. republic. odd sees the room. acosta has more details. a maria problem that was sleeping in her bed when that ukrainian shelf struck her house. this is where she was sleeping right at this place. this right took place that around uh, 4 pm. you can see bullet holes right here, or rather shrapnel holes from multiple launch rockets, system shells chief survived miraculously or not. he said at the time of the showing i was at home lying here, then everything buzzed. i was scared to death, then lost consciousness. later i woke up, the windows were smashed fragments of shells. i hit the wall right near me. i can no longer even sleep. they shoot night and day to ukraine,

launched at least 6 shell from multiple launch walk it systems cold grad. this house was completely destroyed her woman 58 years old. she was in her bedroom during the strike. she was killed instantly. her husband tried to save her, however, he received a concussion as well hold that remains of this house right now, is this dogs, she continues to guard the house, not knowing that his owners are now gone. well, the man he survives, but he's now to off this old job offers are fighting for his life. but here was a man trying to find his wife. there was their bedroom here. everything was on fire and i climbed into this window. his wife was lying at the entrance to that room

under the rubble.