and the chimes is way back into hawaii. and about 2 months later, she can't take it anymore again and she goes to the park. she takes out a gun and she blows her brains out of my going. and can i go for that? can you will actually you can because even though she shot her cell and the family had the body cremated, they kept a lock of hair. and her head was loaded with austin a u. manga was even poisoning his own for yancey. what will make a long story short, he actually lot winds up in mine neighborhood at the north for the long island, be a medical center. and you know something interesting. he was there on a residency. any guess what? what particular medical field in psychiatry that he had to go on front of a board of training. so i kind of just and can you this each and every one of them that he should be in the program. and he grad,

incredible. and then that's when i got that phone call that sort of each i lived so, and i happened because one of my agents and i go down to visit him. now let me tell you this guy look like a movie. saw just got off the golf course wearing these edi saw sunglasses. you know, cells in john, if i didn't know better, i want to introduce them to my own daughter. yeah. right. these are the next marine doctor. right. you know, spending on nation zeros, i'd say come on, the i says when i go join the family. wow. if i didn't know very well. so he's given me the same bottom drawer story and role and then when i started challenging him, he's not so charming. he knows a lot of talking next thing, you know, he leaves the country where he's the country. he goes to zimbabwe africa. the reason is in play africa because it's such a shortage of physicians. there. he's killing women and children and pregnant women,

my god. and they have an arrest warrants, they him, but he returns the united states because he had to renew his passport before he went on yet to another country. and we arrested him, but not to murder because we didn't have any evidence that he murdered anybody at all. here we were an input every several ages. they've re crime line to the government. he said lie or it's of the government. if you want to a federal agent, you're guilty of a felony. that's right in 3 years in jail, full line to the government. so that gave us a window of opportunity, a window of 3 years, the trying to prove that he murdered any of our nation's heroes at the north port va medical center. and that's what started me on, on that particular journey. let me ask you to why is it so difficult to think for medical professionals to be able to spot a colleague who, who can kill in

a hospital environment. medical professionals, of course, are supposed to 1st do no harm. is it, is that it, that they're supposed to be hillers, and not killers. so people generally don't suspect their colleagues of these terrible crimes. it will look if you are so inclined to commit a number is what perfection and what location might you choose? right? tape, you might choose a profession that kind of send this over an individual what professions do we know how that, you know, you, you might want to take a profession where people take, you know, have dedicated themselves to saving lives. so who is going to believe that in this wonderful universe of compassionate people who have dedicated themselves to saving lives, there's gonna be someone hiding in that group. let's actually taking lies.

it's almost impossible to believe. i mean, all your co workers have dedicated themselves to saving people. you see miracles performed almost every day in the hospital. and to believe that somebody is intentionally murdering people. is very, very difficult. you know, it's very difficult for the file into believe that one of his co workers is actually starting 5. that's right, right. it's the same thing here. it's a universe of such dedicated professional people that no one wants to believe. now one of their co workers would be intentionally taking lots and i can understand that i can see we are speaking with an investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his investigations, into medical serial killers. we have to take a short break, but you're not going to want to miss the 2nd half of this conversation. stay tuned . we'll be right back. 2 2

2 2 2 2 2 the, the welling of the sole body to the body of no great union doria throwing at her high. did she ship a duck lean? i should put a control room for 2 of us. so we fixed you get to move onto the system really be and you have enough people, lots of websites. that's and that's what i see. mean. yeah. well, we did the boom of cloud chillies. actually it's strange uh fox news, but i'll let you drive both on the on there. okay. excuse. that's all there is to motivate myself away, but just do you still know? sadly, if she ever always get us but the shipper, instead of just stick with a lift or flip that came over to them,

i need deals says that you play in school. so that's the only for each of them or not somebody's full phone. so i'm sitting here waiting for you to recreate your staple feature of i'll go with the please the day so that i'm not the

welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we are speaking with renowned investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his work tracking down medical serial killers, those medical professionals who become stealth murderers. welcome back again, bruce. glad to have you. thank you, bruce to tell us a little bit about motivation, the, the average serial killer, when when one thinks about john wayne gacy or gary allan ridge way or dentist reader is a sociopath or a psychopath. who becomes more and more bold, often even taunting the police. but that's not the case with medical serial killers . is it tell us about their motivation? what leads them to do it? you know, i'll tell you what i've seen over the years. um, not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but this is when i've witness. i would say the number one. the number one reason

that i've seen is something called munchausen syndrome by proxy right now. much as an central and black proxy is, is often displayed when a mother will maybe intentionally harm a child and bring that child into the hospital to show the staff what a caring, dedicated, outstanding parent they are, and is trying to be so compassionate. please help my child and they want the staff to give them understanding and compassion. well, in some strange way, this is the same thing with medical sale kills medical serial killers. when you look at their evaluations, like okay, nurses, okay doctors. except when it comes to code and a cold, i mean an emergency, a cold blue. and when you read the evaluations, you will see that big in an outstanding when it comes to code. one of my medical

serial killers. kristin gilbert, the doctors would say, you know, if i ever cody, i would want kristin gilbert there she starts blocking or is it the young in turns was scared out of her mind. she case control. she's a hero. she was with these people want because to well feel like they will kind of put aside and they didn't get the attention that they wanted. i do when they ever consider there was considering more zeros and heroes. now, son, and this is an opportunity for them to get the attention that they never had before and they don't care about the victims. victims is just an end to the means. they care about the attention that comes to them and that i've seen throughout the world is perhaps the number one reason for not exclusively somebody the likes. why no, i just loved the power of life and death. nasa your power and then over the summer,

what incredible high for him. you know, wanting incredible turn on that he could that by god that he had the power of life and death and, and that's also calm. but there are a few other reasons. sometimes is a case ongoing in texas, now we're a doctor is just pissed off at management and his co workers and he says, you know, i'm the best doctor. he, he can even compare it to me and you know what they did to me. they took away some of my privileges, they reduced my office, they cut my money back out, show them how so then when patients started going unexpectedly, then oh realize how important are you and they will come back to me. my god, the yeah. the priest. yeah. those are some of the most common reason that i've seen throughout the world back this is be able to walk 2 or 3 years ago. i entertain the idea of writing

a book about serial killers. i've written 8 non non fiction books. i thought it would be kind of a fun departure and i especially wanted to talk about their motivation and what made them so bold before they were finally caught. so i wrote letters to 8 or 9 serial killers who were in prison, including some of the most famous names, many of them, including gary alan ridgeway the green river killer, the b t k killer son of sam tex watson from the manson family. they actually answered me, but their answers were all the same. they said they found jesus in prison, jesus had forgiven them. jesus was, was saving their lives, they were living their lives for jesus, etc, etc. ridgeway even sent me. it was a big package. it had 50 religious pamphlets in it, and he asked me to distribute these pamphlets around my neighborhood. so of course i true, i threw them away. but my image, your conclusion was that,

that there manipulative behavior continues in prison all these years later that, that this manipulative personality is what keeps them going. they think it's going to get them something to, at least profess to be christian, for example. so my question is, is that also common among the serial killers once they've been caught? and if it is, how are they able to, to cover it up for so long as they build their medical careers? well, i guess that sort of a 2 point questions. the 1st part about being uh once, once they are incarcerated, well, many of them will decline to speed because there are additional murders out there, god. right? and they tried and convicted and even received the death penalty, depending on wherever it occurred. so they're not going to do anything else, right?

because when we suspect these medical serial killers are killing 36, the a 100 people often we don't have the proof on hand that they killed that many people. right? you know, we have narrow it down to the very, very best cases that there are and pursue those cases. but they know they know there are other victims out there. and we should be able to prove yet another them, especially with some believe that they gave us, they could be retry, prosecuted and possibly even executed. so they're not going to say anything at all about that. all right, and you know, it's something interesting because when the whistle blow is in the case, this is a real example of whistle blowers fan, had floyd backgrounds and you know, some of them had a substance abuse problems. they had other personal problems. and they knew this

was gonna all come out. but they had incredible coverage to comfortable us and tell us what had happened. well, what do you think happened after the trial? so question gilbert, who were your legs killed about 30 or by nations heroes at north hampton b. a medical center in massachusetts. uh, she goes to trial and she's found guilty. and the note is that it's elizabeth and whistle turn to work. do you think that the agree it is he will say, oh no. just the opposite. uh, just the opposite because you'd say what the hell do you do the us? now when people drive by the hospital, they don't say, call this the hospital. let's say if my dad, that's the hospital, it does wonderful science. no be think that's the hospital with the medical serial killer work. and why did you have to do that? you room for all of us? you room the reputation? not. thank you for getting rid of the murder that they never,

ever. all they heard was criticism from the a coworkers. why did you call these fact the general? why did you believe bring the police in here? why did you bring all of his bad publicity to us while genetically triple bruce tell us where people can learn more about the work that you do and about your book? a sure, well the website is same as the name of the work behind the murder cars dot com. it details all the stories of medical serial killers inside the v a that i personally investigated, including doctors wango and kristin gilbert and others, including a, a physician in albany that old and medical records to put the veterans into research studies. they should have never been ended and they were murdered. i mean, they're really some incredible stories in that book. and also, you know, there's a,

there's a television show out there. cool. um, what's it called very scary people. yes, friend do very scary people. h l n and it has 2 hours on swine go. yes, but i like to find people to um, to read the book, to go to the website, to e mail me. i get emails all the time from veterans and non veterans and people who have been victimized by this. and, you know, and it's one thing we have to mention here is a whole human side to this. john, you know, we talk about the statistics in the message, but these are human games we're talking about. but for the family search our show. so could you imagine, do i mean if i, if i rang your doorbell one day and i said, excuse me sir, you know, my name is bruce sacrament and off from the, the a. and we have reason to believe that your father's death was of a suspicious nature. can i go to the cemetery and dw nadia runs?

yes. and can you imagine your visit, like a, could you imagine sitting in a court room and hearing all this evidence of how your father was murdered and a v a hospital asked that he spent his entire life. yeah, save america reads right, well a terry the, the movie, the hassle imagined the human side is, is how you would feel. and sometimes when we talk about this, this is how many mirrors and the techniques and all that we forget to mention the human side of the families and the families have always been just amazing for me just fantastic. fantastic. well, thank you so much for spending this time with us. this was fascinating and we were very happy to have you. so i want to thank bruce for joining us and for sharing his fast ending experiences. and thanks to our viewers for watching the author, bret easton, ellis, one said, quote, it strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not

a bad and cruel place on quote. in many cases, i'm sorry to say that's true, but we're fortunate to have people like bruce jackman out there doing the right thing. i'm john kerry echo. thanks for watching the whistle blowers until next time . 2 2 2 2 2 2 the little one and the closure balloon a little more than what they should end up to the unit 73. 1 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly

biological weapons program that the world had every now through you know, to production with it. so i guess it was the great deal to bring it suddenly, a little bit as little as you keep on my mazda thought. this might need to know if i'm new and i got the sale. i got another thing i wish to know about jewelry. go need, i know you gave him some more or less than a j o side to put the name of the putty bill because you cannot push the couch. so for those people to go to 00, want this on this to she my a new on it on site can send me $71.00

a year. you're not on the ticket, but i got the the kind of situation that defined those old. i think it's a great political opportunity to call for kids for the 1st time to articulate. it was to say, listen, we have a multi, a whole lot of relationships with all the pol, take relationships between african countries and those black homes. he's the national interest and it would seem that happening at the moment, the evidence of russians in the military and security agencies. those have been pushed into the positive on the inside and see this is an attack on russia or not people and our actions to protect the homeland from such as the threats. russian president

vladimir putin addresses the most of region, building it and that side on russia. and this people in the country will defend itself from internal reason. the head of cmc wagner. you have any big goals in claims? the girl scouts and military facilities into this field under the groups confused as the fights is all being dragged into a criminal adventure. and the just dump delayed on the, on the, on the 4th, these heavy and most go launch on seats. higher risk measures strengthening controls on the roads as an intricate vehicles are seen in the coming. the, you're watching all the international, almost being a busy news day with one story of course, dominating the headlines on pizza scouts and thanks for joining us. fellows, guilty of treason will be severely punished. that's the message from russian president vladimir putin and his address to the nation. calling varnette pm seize

rebellion, a sub in the box, and the threats of russian states. i'm going to shows, i'm addressing oldest citizens of russia and the on full states, law enforcement agencies and special services, the fights and commodities. and now in that battle, positions fighting against enemy attacks. we're doing this. who robert, please do. what i think is last night. i spoke to commodities in old areas. i'm addressing those who have been deceived into the pots of the grave crime and on rebellion. today, russia is fighting for its future. fighting against the question for me of nazis in the most is against us. despise the military information and economic power of the west. nothing was fighting for the life and security of all people for us sovereignty and independence for our rights to be, to remain in russia. i country with a 100 year old history of the issue and you'll know it's about where the sites of on nation is being decided. and we have caused some oil to be united with unity

consolidation and responsibility. and everything that makes us, we come, we must be put aside any differences that may be used and all used by all enemies to disrupt us from within the actions that splits all unity of basic, the renegade actions against those fights. and at the front the, it's a stop in the box against our country. we all nation union and this stop was dealt to rush it 1917. the while. the country was fighting involved with one blow because its victory that was stolen from its intrigues and bickering behind the nation's back, turned it into a great cuz faster state. it led to the destruction of the army on the collapse of the states. the loss of boss territories and the tragedy of the civil war. when russians when's getting russians and brought the ones against, brought the boot. the various adventurous and foreign forces profited and told the country of parts. we will not, let's not happen again. we will defend our country and all state to it from any threats, including internal treason,

some go through. what we have facing now is treason. if i do become spacious and personal interests have led to the betrayal of one's country within one's nation. and the cost for which box is fights and commodities were fighting along with the armed forces. the towns and villages of don't boss with a fault and gave their lives to the new russia. so the unity of the russian welsh, i give you the name and glory have been betrayed by those who are trying to organize an on for 1000000000. pushing the country towards advocacy on fratricide and ultimately to the feet and come to light, should i repeats or when are you any in town? and rebellion is a deadly threat to law states to us as a nation. next metal, it's a blow against russia, against all people, and the action to defend all homelands against such a threat will be harsh. all those who deliberately went on the path of treason, prepared to nonverbally in preparing terrorist attacks will inevitably be punished . they will be held accountable by law. the armed forces have been given the

necessary orders few additional empty territory security measures have been imposed in most of the most of the region and a number of other regions. decisive measures will be taken to do so to stabilize. the situation involves stop on don't going to that which still remains difficult to work up. a civil or military organs of government is essentially blogs when you, as president of russia, commodity, and chief as a citizen of russia, they will do everything and to defend its constitution and the lies, security and liberties of its citizens. thank and those who organize and prepare the abra 1000000000 ton weapons against that come back, come, writes, betrayed. russia will be held accountable, full that some of those were being drawn into this. i called upon you not to repeat . great and tragic mistakes and stop any participation in these criminal actions. i'm sure that we will defend and protect what is the site for to us. together with all the lines. we will either come any all deals and will become stronger. from all

of this so rapidly developing the story, less costly. that's a lot correspondence. it goes down of who's in the loo guns republic. you've got one more. can you tell us about this wagner rebellion so far as well? absolutely. and basically, the russian president vladimir food and the he has a step forward with a speech that has been long anticipated because the crisis visit has been developing very rapidly starting on friday. and of course, the woods of the come on are in, in, in chief himself, have being and now well, all marks off and it is clear that you've given you precautions. gambit will robert gamble has found no support with the russian president, with the highest echelons of the, of the russian government. and that, well, it is being treated as open fries. and in his speech, blood, my food has tried to unites of russia. he has to ok extensively about how any such

rebellion undermines the security here in russia and jeopardize as the efforts on soldiers have to withstand against cubes. massive large ukraine has been preparing for just show until the yeah. and they have all sorts of military equipment, including the most modern military machines and the hardware that have been supplied to ukraine by the west to support them in the counter offensive. and so this are on verbally and is happening against the backdrop of very, very heavy fighting on the front lines. vladimir putin has also said that he promised retribution to everyone who is participating in this um, verbally and uh, he has said the quote as uh, well, the quote has been given out according to any specifics as to uh, what these orders might be. but it is very clear that he's in dodge on the side of the vac in a group and that he is not freezing the situation slightly. of course, he talks about a story tyrell,

i was talking about the revolution of the 1917 when back then the russian empire was battling in the 1st world war and tunnel dispute sent into a bickering and well, isn't it? which led to a bloody civil war? and a revolution, right? so this is what a lot of important has cooled to avoid at any cost. and he himself, he himself said that he is the garden tool of, uh that, that, that, that wouldn't happen. and that he's going to do everything and his powers become modern chief as the russian president to keep russia to key to keep the stability in russell. it happened just a quick remind. 8 will begin on friday when the head and the founder of the wagner group, you've done you precaution, he accused the russian defense ministry of shelling, one of its training sites deep on the home front. the russian defense ministry denied all sides claims. they said that while the video that was posted by the

telegram channels affiliated with the wagner groups, which was reported to show the aftermath of the shelling, they said it was fake and that nothing of the sort happened, but you're getting a precaution. he was already held bent on uh, continuing and it is now now that in hindsight it can be we can say that he had it all planned in advance. and this is like a, it's like a chest game for him. and he did obviously saw that if you move that head on the right now, he's just playing his hand. and the only thing that might change, whatever he's about to do is the address by the russian president vladimir put because you can, you progression has been questioning the authority of the russian military come on for a long time. but he has always said that he is on the side overall shy, and he answers to the russian people and to the russian president vladimir putin, himself. this is the only authority that he agreed to admit and to accept. so now,

well again, vladimir put and made it very clear. uh what he thinks about this uh, gamble of you've given you precaution. so since the accusation was made since you've been you progressing, maybe accusation against the russian. i'm forces of shelling the tests sites deep on the home front. he moved to the rest of region and that all happened to overnight and he so far so far things that had the logic peaceful here. we could see him having a civil conversation with the deputy. we've a deputy minister of defense, the end one of the high ranking russian generals to again very civil, very quiet and very well very nothing. it didn't look like a correlated look like a conversation. so well, that least they have that going for them and, but you've given you precaution to uh, has said that if he is not given given show, you know, the defense man.