to do is the address by the russian president flat report because you've been, you progression has been questioning the authority of the russian military come on for a long time. but he has always said that he is on the side overall shy. and he answers to the russian people and to the russian president vladimir putin, himself, this is the only authority that he agreed to admit and to accept. so now, well again, vladimir put and made it very clear what he thinks about this gamble of you've given you precautions. well that, meanwhile, the wagner chief, guinea pig ocean has appeared to a video conducting talks with russia's deputy defense minister and military intelligence chief in overall stuff on done. yeah, claim, because our troops have taken control of a local field and the military command center seems so silly that we are at the headquarters. at 7 30 am rus stubbs. military facilities, including its air fields, were taken under control, plains, leaving for combat,

as well as humanitarian flights are working. as usual, there's been no problems. left footage emerging on line. i was showing a belt. there we go. some of the wagner presents right there is probably probably around the administration center, and it also says that the region is governor of locals to refrain from traveling to the city, and basically to stay at home, get some details or from roman culture are facing the epicenter of events or bringing us some footage from the southern military district in or off software as we understand allowed last has just been heard. we just heard a loud back here at the headquarters of the headquarters here we heard from this place as soon as possible. you can see people are running, but i guess so we can slow down. right now we because we've got a way for you guys from what do you think about everything was

changed the 1st time i've seen these things, we just heard a loud bang. started running right meanwhile the launch fight has broken out of an oil definitely with the city of photo. and yes, you can see the smoke right there. as we understand that more than a $155.00 is a currently battling the the site with us. we understand for now, no casualties reported at this time. and so the russian ministry of defense has called the ongoing events, precautions, criminal, adventure, and so many wagner soldiers have already laid down their arms, urging others to follow their example. have a look. we appeal to defy this of developing the bmw csl squats. you have been

treating the precautions, criminal, adventure, and participation in an armed insurgency. many of your congress from several units have already realized their mistake. seeking help to ensure the safe return through places of permanent deployment. such assistance on l bought has already been provided to all the fighters and commanders who have requested it. we ask that you show discretion and get in touch with the representatives of the russian administer the defense or law enforcement agencies. as soon as possible, we guarantee everyone's safety. so as we understand with our it is now confirming that they are p mc, wagner. offices in st. petersburg have been rated by law enforcement. we also understand that security has been jacked up in the city, and we do have this report now from montes shape on in this morning in the city, we did visit several of mister precautions, ad business premises, and we can confirm that several of them have now being rated and taken under

control of the f s b and here at wagner is impressive. corporate h q a just on the outskirts of st. petersburg, a significant military and security operation is underway. and we believe the premises have been seized and are being searched at the moment. of course in petersburg is a city of origin of, of uh you have danny pedagogy and this elusive, an interesting entrepreneur of qualified as a pharmacist initially. and then progressed in to various businesses which culminated in 2015 with his foundation of the wagner pmc private military contract, which has grown into a very significant military force, of course famous for it's at work and back much fast. so in st. petersburg, the city is tom, there's a, there's a large ash, jude and celebration on somebody which hasn't been canceled. people are getting on with their business. but there is a sense that at the kremlin and the government in moscow,

particularly now that we've hired, present, improve, set out, is still very clearly about the position in moscow. regarding mr. goshen and wagner, st. petersburg is quiet. but as we can see at the assets on the premises that belong to mister pre goshen, we can tell you that we have seen a f s. b specialist entered those areas. well, that was us and petersburg. meantime, here in moscow, local authorities have announced that your account's a terrorist operation been introduced here on the capital with our old mass public events and the city canceled. the situation on the street is come and must come there saying there are no restrictions on our coming, you know, going out. that's as a, the police have been seeing a sporting military vehicles, you know, the criminal in, in the early hours of this morning. it made a report of ongoing classes in the south of russia. the russian president has held a telephone calls for the presidents of bella roost was becca stone and causing stone that size, as we understand some heads of a multiple russian subjects,

the russian officials have. meantime, being voicing the support from moscow and the russian president regina bocavicius has always been with the russian presidents. and today, every citizen of the republic expresses their full support. the president of the russian federation belie them are put in. no one is allowed to trample into the mob the names of our songs who died defended, no fatherland who died, protecting future generations. and i'm absolutely sure that the situation will stabilize. the president will exercise his powers in full and companionable cholera as always will stand beside him for everything that is happening is a knife in the back and the real mutiny. i have repeatedly warned that war is no design for voice, impersonal grievances, and resolving disputes behind our lines. it's about stability, about the asian of the state, about the security of citizens. there is no justification of such actions. i fully

support every would apply to move, let emerge, boots in the fighters of the administrative defense, and the russian national guard in the church of republic have already said all through the ears face intentions will do everything to preserve the unity of russia and protect it statehood. the senate, the timber regions, supports the president fully the guarantor of the constitution and has a clear understanding of how important it is to have responsible and consolidated position from the whole of society. residents and leadership of all subjects of the federation. without exception, in this current situation, it was less than i made sure made. it didn't take too long to pick up the story. of course. so headlines are speculating of of a cool. well, that quite thing. someone verified information of royce, as for one, posting an article, citing a source, informing the agency, the bottom, the taking control of the city of what all unusual though. that information had already been denied by the regional officials in that town. all right, that's

a lot more right now. of course you will have to georgia of georgia, somebody while a, a senior research fellow with a global policy. is it a joyce? good to see you today, mike. goodness gracious, may you know all i is on moscow, right? now i think, i think much of the world's attention has been captivated by the story as a photo on breaking news story, georgia or nazi international, the tensions between the m o. d and pedagogy they have played out publicly before. now apparently it's happening again, but you, are you surprised that they've resulted in what apparently is an outright new 25 by the wagner group? you know, i wouldn't say i'm surprised. i mean, i am actually surprised that it has been the boost into the open. um, earlier um, so far i, you know, i, i've been surprised by how solar runs. the russian government has been towards pre goshen. but if you follow the, the various interviews and video recordings that's up and goshen has released

over the past few weeks. it's clear that this resentment that he holds towards the russian government, particularly to the russian ministry of defense, a, particularly to the defensive as the showing go. that has an, a long history. and he's brought up the subject of syria. he's done that several times. but what happened in syria when a number of his fights is the fact that broke flights as well killed by american boma is something that president trump likes to boast about. but because in blames the russian defense ministry, he brings them essentially that they had betrayed him. so the resentment and anger and frustration that the machine has just been expressing for weeks he has a long history, it goes all the way back to 2018. i mean, some people gauging, i guess the validity to what of this simply by the seriousness of the russian president, i'm sure you sort of,

lot of my food and then addressing the other nation, i guess the, well, the other ones that a few hours ago, he looked very serious, george, he looked pretty angry. i mean to be totally straight with you and that i think is, is a pretty good gauge. right. there is how serious this indeed might be. i mean, i mean, georgia pollutant mentioned the 1917 bolshevik revolution. i mean, is that now that to me, that's a huge thing to mention right now. does that, does that put any opportunity best for you to, for you to read between the lines? george? yes, absolutely. the issue like is 17. is something that i moved in has all, are often brought up, his senses as the bolsheviks style of the russian people, the russian army of the russian government. russians stayed in the back. they destroyed the country um by spreading defeatism demoralization. 9 and that led to the collapse of the country civil war. and then the terrible 70 year bolshevik dictatorship is something that is,

feels very strongly about his brought this up many science books. so for him to like, um, what the re goshen does just done to what the bolsheviks did in 1917 which is which as he said, it led to the destruction of our country let it led to the dissolution of our common state. that's a very serious, aren't you come get a more serious judge than that from fulton. yeah, yeah. i mean, you know, in the meantime, george, they were there, somebody unconfirmed reports going on, going around right now. i mean it's, it is difficult to really touch down on that because we are, we are trying to get so much confirmation to the ministry of defense here in moscow . but we onto the farmer. poets have skirmishes and the role stuff on the, on the unconfirmed reports of a russian choppers and the skies of up at all. yeah. is right now. um gordon said that he would like to unseat the top russian military. c'mon, what's, what's he's saying? do you think right that george? exactly. well i think he, he would the he obviously episode of the,

the spies is uh, showing go. uh, gear. awesome. uh and yeah, we can get you interested in. he has never criticize the boot and um, because of course, he realizes the boot and he still immensely popular within russia. but because, well, just differentiate between fulton and the various uh come on those and the defense minister. so by going off the showing goes fees and effect going off the food in and therefore he's going off the, the seat of government. it's it's, it's a whole list of enterprise spokane because whatever frustrations he may have, he is now cross the line and is essentially doing trees and he will be dealt with the roof was the, i don't see how this can be resolved other than i think through violence and bloodshed, i think it's gonna, there's going to be a very brutal take down which could well lead to, um, maybe his desk,

but definitely do his arrest. then the same cost, the ration georgia, if you would talk to us about the potential ramifications here for the ongoing calls that you created. because as you well know, since i think it was during the 4th of ukrainian side with nato, have been launching that counter offensive. and, and it's been pretty much widely acknowledged with all the counter offensive stuff being well, a major last state they've been, i've been a big failure. and now in, in the recent days with moscow, i assume is probably feeling pretty confident about the way the conflict is going. now we suddenly have this with a p, m c, 5 know group. how could this effect rush this position right now in ukraine with the ongoing conflict of what it could affect? it was very adverse. the obviously, if it leads to confusion demoralization and in the, the uh, flight thing among the rang. so i mean that we don't know the extent of any splits um within the army. if they exist, that would lead to a, you know,

a stripe among a fellow soldiers on the other end a, you know, if you grade attends at the west, decides hey, this is a great opportunity. why don't we try to exploit this? um, uh for our own and that could backfire on them. i mean, you know, they, they could well miscalculate then the ukraine obviously has made a number of miscalculations. the counter offensive was 31 miscalculations. nato is notorious, were giving bad advice. so if they do budge your brain is a, they take your chances. this could be 1917 all over again, complete russian glasgow, german victory. i do what you need. i think that could let blow up in nato space. meantime, it may mean time, again, we've got unconfirmed reports and then i really don't know how much credibility to take in these. but i think it's worth mentioning anyway, just so we just get as much as we can out there. but on can from reports of wagner troops potentially on the way to moscow, we understand that road blocks have been

a record in some places on the outskirts of moscow, that unconfirmed reports potentially of a segment of highway being destroyed to help prevent wagner from coming towards muskets i was just speaking to some people out on the street on, on the way to work today and a couple of a young girls outside thing. single reminds us of, of, of the 1990s. i mean, you know, there are a lot of people right now that, that are very worried about what's happening in particularly here in moscow. g g thing, george, is there any way that they're involved and it could come to moscow would come to moscow and couldn't get into moscow? i would down to it. i mean, just going by, you know, the events and why am i and what i followed the logic because i, the russian people i think don't want to go back to the 19 ninety's. and also, as far as the russian, people are concerned, they don't live military coups, it's never really been a russian tradition to have um, military crews. they want civilian control and above. oh, you know,

whatever the frustrations about this includes the war and you grange fulton and it's still very popular and the rest of people have a lot of trust in boots. and so any attend by uh, goshen to take on boots into displace boots and will be rebuffed. i don't see that he would get any real following. and i think the conclusion will be as brutal in as violent as the the 1993, the storming of the parliament was me. but just wanted to ask over. so you know that the volcanic group has been well, very successful in part. so all of that, like us, confident costing about to a buck moved out of trouble and got open on his back move. the wagner group is essentially credited with, with, with the, the victories there. and the conflicts are, isn't an one might imagine perhaps the most go doesn't want to fall out with voc, i mean georgia. is it possible that person could, could make some changes in the upper echelons. so i don't know the russian ministry

of defense to try and perhaps negotiate with wagner to try and reach some sort of i don't know resolution. i don't think that can happen now. i think um uh, goshen has crossed uh a red line and not the putins. uh, very angry is you said the address um to the nation this morning as well as the the statement issued by sort of beacon last night. i don't that it can be any now reconciliation with pre goshen. however, it's possible that there will be changes at the top, but that will be reforms within the uh come on. i think the russian people are frustrated. i think the russian, people want this war to be brought to an end the end. they will, they feel it, state russia needs to take this seriously. you know, stop fighting with one arm behind your back. stop worrying about, you know, what, what the west is doing, just go in and when, and i think that, that, that will be pressure on the, on, on the boot and ready to bring this to

a conclusion as a regular and yes, i mean, no question. the, the black mcgrew i've proven themselves to be good, tough, brave fighters. and i think those of us a lot of simple people them. but as this happened many times in the past, um you have generals who let the glories go to the heads and stopped thinking of themselves as leaders of the people. that's not the russian way. and i, i don't think the russians will follow up in goshen, georgia, before i let you go here, and it's so good to have you on the program during this very fluid breaking news hero analogy, internationally. i mean, look when, when it comes to, for example, regime change in the world when it comes to prove is taking place. whether it's the color revolution, the arb springs to the light on crew and ukraine in 2014. there are very often external players that are getting best thing, goods and the cookie jobs. there are external factors that could very well be involved. and i was going to ask you what, you know, what do you think about any reaction from, from langley to junior in the c, i a,

regarding this potential to hear it here in russia that this ministry rebellion but, but, but is it possible in any way that it could be any other intelligence communities, you know, belong to the phones of russia that could in any way be in contact with pick ocean or, or trying to festa something the various. yeah, i think it's very likely, i mean, we already know from the, the leaks of this go, leaks that goes in was invoke. busy then some of the go, she ations with your brain in which she would allow ukrainians to withdrawal and in return he would divulge intelligence information about russian positions. you know, that's a rule. it hasn't really been effective the squelch. and there's no question that when it comes to western intelligence among the small, the big isn't western intelligence, they know how to exploit divisions. and they know that the most effective way of explore these divisions in russia is to support the soho russian nationalist. oh,

these are the real people. they are real russian natural. they're real russian patry is. yeah, they don't really like boots in a so, you know, why don't we exploit the anger and the rage against the hoot and, and essentially they will be doing out though, if you would, but you know, they'll, they'll be able to boost, will the people buy this power in your patrick. yeah. well the real fast for you as well. i'm excited. i'm excited right now. me to basically a lot of speculation going on right now these days. it's already days right now. go to georgia, is that me when he joining us, the senior research fellow, the global policy institute here, you know, look it's, it's so good to have you one during this program. it is breaking news, 0 analogy. international. the people are saying histories in the making. but as i said, it's only days that will have to seem very right is to like, i don't check to see you like it, but we're continuing to gauge the pulse of this breaking news story here when archie international. this is your source for your latest developments. we are back

in a moment and we've told you in the past about the us department of veterans affairs, it's an enormous sprawling bureaucracy and is one of the most poorly run departments in the entire us government investigators. they are deal on a daily basis with things like fraud, investment, drug crimes and other white color issues. but imagine going to work one day and learning that you're not needed to investigate these routine white color crimes. instead, you're needed to investigate a serial killer and even worse, a medical serial killer assessed you a pass who works under color of helping patients. as a medical professional, a doctor or a nurse. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 our next guest is that rare person who has seen the darkest part of

the underbelly of society. bruce sacrament is a renowned investigator specializing in tracking down medical serial killers and is in demand as a consultant on the subject all over the world. he's a former special agent in charge of the ne field office of the criminal investigations division in the us department of veterans affairs office of the inspector general, where he was responsible for criminal investigations in 295 veterans affairs facilities. he's a licensed private investigator and is the president of the society of professional investigators. in addition to his professional credentials. he's the co author of the highly acclaimed book behind the murder curtain, special agent, bruce sacrament, hans doctors and nurses who kill our veterans, bruce sacrament. welcome to the show. we are so happy to have you a look. thank you very much. i'm actually honored to be here today. well, the pleasure is online. i've been looking forward to this for

a long time. i have to tell you this conversation is, is going to be fascinating for me personally. there are probably fewer than a dozen people in the united states who have had a career focused on serial killers and even fewer who have focused on medical serial killers. before we get to that specialization, tell us a little bit about your career and about how you got started in investigations. sure. well i, i started investigations probably by watching too many colombo, you know, i'm not seeing a big, tough, dirty harry kind of guy. but i used to watch columbia and i so you know, i could do that. this guy is more brings in braun and i really like that. so i started out as an investigator with the us department of defense and i was investigating contract fraud and procurement for a line. and it was pretty interesting. and then jimmy carter way back when

began offices of inspector general's in every federal agency. so every page of federal agency at that time and now just about every agency has an office of inspector general and most offices of inspector general all kind of torn to different directions. one is in the office of the what it and one is an office of criminal investigations. i was responsible for the office of criminal investigations for the ne united states. and i had a tremendous smorgasbord or if you will, of cases to pick and choose from. because hospitals well hospitalized like big cities and any kind of crime that could occur in a big city could almost kind of happened in the hospital. you know, we had procurement for or contract for what we had drug diversion. think of all the narcotics that are in the hospital. i mean we have the most complex scientific

equipment to inexpensive items like diapers and everything in between. and we have with very, very concerned about medical records about the security and medical records. so running the hospital is a very, very complex job, and unfortunately the has a big opportunity for some criminal activity. now with the v a, i must preface my remarks by saying that the old oh well bring majority of the am for the most honest hard working, dedicated compassion and people you'd ever want to meet. absolutely, yes, no, i didn't said there is a very, very tiny percentage of people that will take advantage of the system. and unfortunately they have victims on nations few roads and that's really terrible. so

i was really on a, in 2 respects, i was on it to be in federal law enforcement. and i was honored to have a position that worked out for veterans that actually helped us secure safety and security and the best health possible for our nation's heroes. it was a wonderful, wonderful position to be, and you had a long career at the department of veterans affairs. tell us about the case that made you an expert on medical serial killers. i have to assume that somebody doesn't just wake up one day and decide to start killing people. they operate on detected sometimes for many years. and we're talking about doctors and nurses here . how did this all begin in that big case? well, you know, i'm working all these other cases that i just described and all in one day my phone rings, and i get a call from the chief of psychiatry at the northwood long island,

b a medical center. and she says, bruce, oh, you're not gonna believe this, but we have a doctor working here who spend time in prison for boys and gets co workers. and i'm looking at the phone and i'm from looking at my calendar as is this april 1st is this like some kind of april fools, a joke or something, you know? and she says, no, bruce, this is really true. now what? i didn't think in the united states of america, you could spend time in prison for poisoning people and come out and be a physician. so i was rock and natural. it started the story of a dr. michael swain. go, you know, to michel schmilo, killed people, not only united states. he told people the world, you know, when he was in medical school, john, when he was in medical school, he was known as double swain. go license to kill all my gosh. twice fellow

students in medical school and then to the dean and they said, you know, the, we don't think these guys window should really be a physician. and the dean said, what do you know you're only students on the dean. i think he could be a doctor, but i think he needs more training. so let's keep him for about 6 months longer. right. next thing, you know, he ones up in ohio state university and he's killing people. and he winds up being in m e n t, and he actually toys him, his co workers, your body, just co workers. and he says, hey guys, you know, you work so hard, have some donuts in the donuts and they all got sick that night. and he calls them up, he says, tell me, will you symptoms tell me everything that happens? he's re losing the excitement of poisoning people, not only when he actually put the boys in on these donuts, but hearing how they suffered. hm. and it turns out that the donuts were actually

sprinkled with loss, and they called me saying that these in teams are not stupid. about 2 weeks later you consume with some ice tea and they have the ice t test it and it's loaded with awesome. wow. and the police been fantastic job and he gets 3 years in jail for boys and his co. ready workers and then he comes out and he's a doctor again. it to be a lot. it seems impossible. how can anybody pass a government background investigation and have your license? yeah. and have your license reinstated? yes. well i'll tell you this, this guy. it's an incredible sociopath, you know, he was, he wasn't excellent read and he got out of prison. and he gave the store, he says, you know, i'm an ex marine, i got a fine, i got an a bottle in the roll. but here's a piece of paper from the governor, restoring my civil rights. nobody checked it,

nobody verified it. and the next thing, you know, the guy is a doctor again, this time out in the west coast. and it'd be a facility and he's doing well. he's actually engage to be a nurse. and then the story comes out and uh, everything turns terrible for him and his fiance and his fiance, her name was kristen kenny does a beautiful, beautiful young lady. and she goes home to mom and she says, you know, mom, i really loved this guy. swining go, but i can't live with them anymore after i heard what happened. you know, but when i was living with him, i was getting all these headaches for some reason, headaches. but i, i feel i feel better now. and the next thing, you know, swipe boat shows up at the door and he sold tom and the chimes is way back into hawaii. and about 2 months later she can't take it anymore again and she goes to the park. she takes it.