nobody verified. and the next thing, you know, there is a doctor again, this time out in the west coast and it'd be a facility and he's doing well. he's actually engage to be a nurse. and then the story comes out and uh, everything turns terrible for him and his fiance and his fiance, her name was kristen kenny does a beautiful, beautiful young lady. and she goes home to mom and she says, you know, mom, i really loved this guy. swining go, but i can't live with them anymore after i heard what happened, you know, but when i was living with him, i was getting all these headaches for some reason. headaches. but i, i feel better now and the next thing you now swipe, go shows up at the door. and he sold tom and the chimes is way back into hawaii. and about 2 months later, she can't take it anymore again and she goes to the park. she takes out

a gun and she blows her brains out. all my complaint can i go for that? can you will actually you can because even though she shot her sale and the family had the body cremated, they kept a lock of hair. and her head was loaded with austin, a u. manga was even poisoning his own fiancee. what will make a long story short, he actually lot winds up in my neighborhood at the northwood long island, b a medical center. and you know, something interesting. he was there on a residency and it guess what, what particular medical field in psychiatry that he had to go on front of a board of training. so i kind of just, and can you this each and every one of them that he should be in the program. and he's the incredible. and then that's when i got that phone call that sort of each i lived so, and i happened because one of my agents and i go down to visit him. now let me tell

you this guy look like a movie. saw just got off the call cost will be z, b $80.00 saw sunglasses. you know, cells in john, if i didn't know better, i'd want to introduce them to my own door. yeah. right. he's yes, the next marine doctor. right. you know, spending on nation zeros. i'd say come on, i says when i go join the family. wow. if i didn't know very well. so he's given me the same bar and draws story, you know? and then when i start challenging him, he's not so charming. you know, don't want to talk any more. next thing, you know, he leaves the country where he's the country. he goes to zimbabwe ashbrook. the reason is awfully africa because it's such a shorter do positions there. he's killing women and children and pregnant women, my god. and they have an arrest warrant, say him, but he returns the united states because he had to renew his passport before he

went on yet to another country. and we arrested him, but not to murder because we didn't have any evidence that he learned anybody at all. here we were an input every several ages. they've re crime line to the government. he said lie, or it's of the government. if you want to a federal agent, you're guilty of a felony. that's right in 3 years in jail, full line to the government. so that gave us a window of opportunity, a window of 3 years to trying to prove that he murdered any of our nation's heroes . at the north port va medical center, and that's what started me on, on that particular journey. let me ask you to why is it so difficult to think for medical professionals to be able to spot a colleague who, who can kill in a hospital environment. medical professionals, of course, are supposed to 1st do no harm on is it, is that it,

that they're supposed to be hillers, and not killers. so people generally don't suspect their colleagues of these terrible crimes. it will look if you are so inclined to commit a number is what perfection and what location might you choose? right? tape? you might choose a profession that kind of gives you the legal power of life and this over an individual what professions do we know have that? you know, you, you might want to take a profession where people take, you know, have dedicated themselves to saving lives. so who is going to believe that in this wonderful universe of compassionate people who have dedicated themselves to saving lives, there's going to be someone hiding in that group that's actually taking lives. it's almost impossible to believe. i mean, all your coworkers have dedicated themselves to saving people. you see,

miracles performed almost every day in the hospital and to believe that somebody is intentionally murdering people. is very, very difficult. you know, it's very difficult for the fireman to believe that one of his co workers is actually starting fine. that's right, right. it's the same thing here. it's a universe of such dedicated professional people that no one wants to bully. now one of their co workers would be intentionally taking lots and i can understand that i can say we are speaking with an investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his investigations, into medical serial killers. we have to take a short break, but you're not going to want to miss the 2nd half of this conversation. stay tuned . we'll be right back. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the,

[000:00:00;00] the welding of them. so between the 2 of you know, cranium doria, sonia if i do, she shit, a duck clean. i should put a control room for 2 of us. so we fixed you get the system really be and you have enough people not to sing, but so it's uh, let's see. mean, yeah, we did the boom cloud shows actually it's strange uh, fox news,

but i'll let you as well. but the crazy if that's where you store lot of the my software, but just to, to use it on satellite if she ever, we get us. but the shipping stuff, just a good fit you immediately of course, we'll take you more, but of them i need deals says that you train scroll, so that's what i'm using. i'm only for each of them or not to embed useful. but i'm seeing here, i see the drop these products here, nestle type of features. i'll go and open to please the straight guy so that i'm not the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we are speaking with renowned investigator and author, bruce sacrament,

about his work tracking down medical serial killers, those medical professionals who become self murderers. welcome back again, bruce. glad to have you. thank you. a bruce. tell us a little bit about motivation, the average serial killer. when, when one thinks about john wayne gacy or gary allan ridge way or dentist reader is a sociopath or a psychopath becomes more and more bold, often even taunting the police. but that's not the case with medical serial killers, visit. tell us about their motivation. what leads them to do it? you know, i'll tell you what i've seen over the years. um, not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but this is when i witness. i would say the number one, the number one reason that i've seen is something called munchausen syndrome by proxy right now, much as an central and black proxy is, is often displayed when a mother will maybe intentionally harm

a child and bring that child into the hospital it shows the staff what a caring, dedicated, outstanding parent they are, and is trying to be so compassionate, please help my child and they want the staff to give them understanding and compassion. well in some strange way. this is the same thing with medical sale kills you think about medical serial killers when you look at their evaluations, like okay, nurses, okay doctors. except when it comes to code and a cold, i mean an emergency, a cold blue. and when you read the evaluations, you will see that big in an outstanding when it comes to code one of my medical serial killers. kristin gilbert, the doctors would say, you know, if i ever cody, i would one kristin gilbert. there she started barking, or is it the young in change was scanned out of her mind. she case control, she's a hero. she's outstanding. why?

this is one of these people want because to well feel like they will kind of put aside and they didn't get the attention that they. ready wanted, i do wonder who can say there was continued more zeros and heroes. now, son, and this is an opportunity for them to get the attention that they never had before . and now they don't care about the victims. the victims is just an end to the means. they care about the attention that comes to them and that i've seen throughout the world is perhaps the number one reason. it's not exclusively, some people likes wind. oh, i just loved the power of life and death. nasa your power and then over the summer, what incredible high for him. you know, why didn't incredible turn on that he could act like god that he had the power of life and gas and, and that's also calm. but there are

a few other reasons. sometimes is a case ongoing in texas, now we're a doctor is just pissed off at management and his co workers and he says, you know, i'm the best doctor here. he's. i can't even compare it to me and you know what they did to me. they took away some of my privileges, they reduced my office, they cut my money back, i'll show them how fill them when patients start going unexpectedly, they know we always have a point value and they will come back to me. my god, the. yeah, the priest. yeah, those are some of the most common reasons that i've seen throughout the world mattresses. be able to welcome 2 or 3 years ago. i entertain the idea of writing a book about serial killers. i. i've written 8 non non fiction books. i thought it would be kind of a fun departure and i especially wanted to talk about their motivation and what made them so bold before they were finally caught. so i wrote letters to 8 or 9

serial killers who were in prison, including some of the most famous names, many of them, including gary alan ridgeway the green river killer, the b t k killer son of sam tex watson from the manson family. they actually answered me, but their answers were all the same. they said they found jesus in prison, jesus had forgiven them. jesus was, was saving their lives, they were living their lives for jesus, etc, etc. ridgeway even sent me. it was a big package. it had 50 religious pamphlets in it, and he asked me to distribute these pamphlets around my neighborhood. so of course i true, i threw them away. but my image, your conclusion was that, that there manipulative behavior continues in prison all these years later that, that this manipulative personality is what keeps them going. they think it's going to get them something to, at least profess to be christian,

for example. so my question is, is that also common among the serial killers once they've been caught? and if it is, how are they able to, to cover it up for so long as they build their medical careers as well, i guess it sort of a 2 part question. the 1st part about being uh once, once they are incarcerated. well, many of them will decline to speak because there are additional murders out there. god. right. and they tried and convicted and even received the death penalty depending on wherever it occurred. so they're not going to do anything else, right? because when we suspect these medical serial killers are killing 36, the a 100 people often we don't have the proof on hand that they killed that many people . right? you know, we have narrow it down to the very,

very best cases that there are and pursue those cases. but they know they know there are other victims out there. and we should be able to prove yet another bit them, especially with some believe that they gave us, they could be retry, prosecuted and possibly even executed. so they're not going to say anything at all about that. all right, and you know it's something interesting because when the whistle blow was in the case of chris and gilbert, this is a real example of whistle blowers fan, had floyd backgrounds and you know, um some of them had a substance abuse problems. they had other personal problems, and they knew this was gonna all come out. but they had incredible coverage to comfortable us and tell us what had happened. well, what do you think happened after the trial? so question gilbert,

who were your legs killed about 30 or by nations heroes at north hampton b. a medical center in massachusetts. uh, she goes to trial and she's found guilty. and the whistle blowers were just tremendous. we wouldn't have known of that as a living for themselves. so when they return to work, do you think that they agree it is? he will say, oh no. just the opposite. just the opposite, because you'd say what the heck do you do us? now when people drive by the hospital, they don't say, call this the hospital, let's say if my dad, that's the hospital, it does wonderful science. no pc, that's the hospital with the medical serial killer work. now why did you have to do that? you room for all of us, you room, the reputation. not. thank you for getting rid of the murder that they never, ever. all they heard was criticism from the a coworkers. why did you call these 50 general? why did you believe bring the police in here?

why did you bring all of his bad publicity to us while just asked the credible bruce, tell us where people can learn more about the work that you do and about your book? a sure, well the website is same as the name of the work behind the murder cars dot com. it details all the stories of medical serial killers inside the v a that i personally investigated, including dr. swain go and kristin gilbert and others, including a, a physician in albany that old and medical records to put the veterans into research studies. they should have never been ended and they were murdered. i mean, they're really some incredible stories in that book. and also, you know, there's a, there's a television show out there. cool. um, what's it called very scary people. yes,

friend do very scary. p h o n and it has 2 levels on swine go. yes. but i like to find people to um, to read the book, to go to the website, to e mail me. i get emails all the time from veterans and non veterans and people who have been victimized by this. and, you know, and so one thing we have to mention here is a whole human side to this john, you know, we talk about the statistics in the message, but these are human games we're talking about but for the family search our show. so could you imagine, do i mean if i, if i rang your doorbell one day and i said, excuse me sir, you know, my name is bruce sacrament. and i'm from new v a. and we have reason to believe that your father's death was of a suspicious nature. can i go to the cemetery and dw nadia runs? yes. and can you imagine your visit, like a, could you imagine sitting in

a court room and hearing all this evidence of how your father was murdered and a v a hospital after he spent his entire life? yeah, same thing, america reads, right, well, a terry to the movie the hassle imagined the human side is, is how you would feel. and sometimes when we talk about this to 6, how many memories and the techniques and all that we forget to mention the human side of the families and the families have always been just amazing for me. just fantastic. fantastic. well, thank you so much for spending this time with us. this was fascinating and we were very happy to have you. so i want to thank bruce for joining us and for sharing his fascinating experiences. and thanks to our viewers for watching the author, bret easton, ellis, one said, quote, it strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not a bad and cool place on quote. in many cases, i'm sorry to say that's true, but we're fortunate to have people like bruce hackman out there doing the right

thing. i'm john kerry echo, thanks for watching the whistle blowers until next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the, [000:00:00;00] the the kind of situation that you find, although i think it's a great political opportunity to offer, gets full defense to unplug duplex, to the world, to say, listen, we have a multi, a whole lot of relationships with all the powers of the,

of the world. and what to dictate relationships between african countries and those black ones. he's the national dentist and i would see that happening at the moment, [000:00:00;00] the, the insurance liability of russians, the ministry and security agencies. those have been pushed into the positive on the insides and see by the seats and threats. this is an attack on russia or not. people are options to protect the homeland, such as the threat to be. the russian president vladimir putin addresses the nation on the box in a row family and in the roll stuff region point and get and that's not on the brochure and it's people of the country will defend itself from the head of a bmc. wagner group. but you have any technology and claims that role stuff is military facilities,

including its field or under the groups control. the size of the russian ministry of defense as the fights are being dragged into a close criminal adventure which is done for laid down there on the handle for it is in moscow launch anti terrorist measures strengthening controls on the road. this ministry vehicles are seen near the press the or are we going updates incoming by the minute here at off the international and the most good passing along all the details on air and online across, on numerous onto the platform. so all eyes are on most go today, and our teams are on the ground across russia and ukraine. it is good to have you with us. so all of those guilty of treason will be severely punished. and that is the message from the russian president in his address to the nation. calling wagner,

p. m. c's, rebellion, a, quote, stop in the back. the threat to a russian statement. somebody shares, i'm addressing, oldest citizens of russia. so the armed forces, lower enforcement agencies and special services. the fight isn't c'mon, does a now in that battle positions fighting against any media tags by the doing this for a robot please. last night i spoke to the commodities in old areas as my i'm also addressing those who have been deceived onto the part of a grave crime and on for values. today, a brochure is fighting for its future. go fighting against aggression from neo nazis, and the most is going to against us as part of the military information and economic power of the west with fighting for the life and security of all people across sovereignty and independence for right to be. i agree with you to remain in russia, a country with a 100 year old history, just you. yeah. what you, it's

a battle with the sites of all nation is being decided much and it causes us all to be united with unity is up consolidation and responsibility. and everything that makes us weak our must be put aside to what's the price, any differences that may be used in all used by all enemies, to disrupts us from within the shades of the actions that splits all unity um, basically renegade options against those fights and at the front of the city, that's the, it's a stop in the box against our country and all nation for looks. this stop was dealt to russia in 1970 we, while the country was fighting and well, well, why don't we do it? it's victory was stolen from it. so what would that, what intrigues and bickering behind the nations by 10 victims, with great catastrophe, and actually get used to it, led to the destruction of the army on the collapse of the states. but it was the last boss territories, and the tragedy of the civil war. it was that when russians went against russian easy enough. and when i'm brother went against brother. even the book and various adventurous and foreign forces, profitable amounts of them and told the country of popular computer we're going to,

we will not let that happen. again. we will defend our country and all states hoods from any threads, including internal treason identities. what we are facing now is the reason you meet your big ambitions and personal interests have led to the betrayal of one's country. one's nation and the cost of which boxes fights has and commodities were fighting along with the armed forces. the towns and villages of don't boss where they thoughts little and gave their lives for the new russia, the, the unity of the russian. well, the name and glory have been betrayed by those who were trying to organize an armed rebellion, pushing the country towards on a key and fratricide put an ultimately to the feet and capitulation, whoops. and you will probably repeat any internal rebellion, which is a deadly threat to all state to us as a nation in the and it's a blow against russia even against how people and all action to defend all month alarms against such a threat will be harsh. you, because

a couple of old eyes who deliberately went on the path of treason, a pageant on verbally and you end up preparing terrorist attacks when a negatively be punished for by the very so they will be held accountable by little by still get done by the armed forces them given the necessary orders by using additional empty terrace security measures have been imposed in most got the most or region and a number of other regions. so with a decisive measures will be taken to stabilize the situation in brussels on done, which still remains difficult as to what of the civil and military organs of governance is essentially blocked. moving is, as president of russia now come on demand chief as a citizen of russia. i will do everything in my power to defend the country, to defend its constitution, most of the lives of security and liberties of its citizens. with those who organized and prepare the item for ballad tons, weapons the games they come back home, right? so the trade russia level will be held accountable for that it can be able to those

who are being drawn into this. when that goes, then i call upon you not to repeat the grave and tragic mistakes and stopping any participation in these criminal actions order from the i'm show that we will defend and protect what is the insight put to us together with all mother lands and we will overcome any all deals with becoming even strong gasket will get through. you, did you and so quite literally, every minute we're getting updates here in moscow rule, so sifting through a lot of unconfirmed videos and reports. but for the meantime, we'll have this over to watch the contributor, rachel moss, and she's breaking down the details of the russian president's speech. the russian president virus wouldn't address the nation, explains that the full national security machinery of the russian federation has been mobilized to address these enemy attacks. he put all this in a historical context, this way that it is similar to what russia dealt with in world war one in 1917. just to recall what happened in that situation. the germans and their turkish

allies locked the eastern ports of the russian federation, put some pressure on russian forces at the time, and that resulted in vickery and fighting and mutiny, and ultimately the dissolution of the solidarity that enables russia to fight back in that particular event. so he's making a parallel to this, saying that there is definitely a threat normally to the nation, but also to the unity of the russian federation and the people who are fighting on the front lines. and it's interest. he pointed out that there were people who were deceived on the past of a great crime and making reference to the people who are organizing this movement, these actions. and he never really addressed exactly who would be doing the deceiving. but he did mention that russia is fighting against the entire western

information and military machinery. so there could be an indication in that he mentioned that right after he mentioned the idea of deception. and the president also said that anti terrorism measures are being put in place in various regions between the moscow region and, but also other regions. and that the situation in are all stuff on dawn is on the point of being stabilized. and that that's a priority. as well, what's very interesting about this talk from the russian president, as he mentioned several times that this is a very existential crisis and threats against the country. right. and he pointed out that unity is now more important than ever, given the threats that the country faces. let me time of the pm, see if i can assure you, if you've got any precaution has denied old accusations of treason claiming he will saved the country from ruin and blaming the ministry of defense for the current

crisis. so is this a stand off? is, is this a rebellion? trying get a clearer picture with that? corresponding equals to a quick reminder. it will begin on friday when uh, the head and the founder of the wagner group. you've given you pre gordon, he accused the russian defense menissi of shelling, one of its trainings sites deep on the home front. the russian defense ministry denied all such claims. they said that while the video that was posted by the telegram channels affiliated with the wagner groups, which was reported to show the aftermath of the shelling, they said it was fake and that nothing of the sort happened. but you can, you precaution, he was already held bent on uh, continuing and it is now now that in hindsight it can be, we can say that he had it all planned in advance. and this is like a, it's like a chess game for him. and he did obviously saw that if you move that head and the right now he's just playing his hand. and the only thing that might change,

whatever he's about to do is the address by the russian president vladimir put because you can, you progression has been questioning the authority of the russian military come on for a long time. but he has always said that he is on the side of russia, and he answers to the russian people and to the russian president vladimir putin, himself. this is the only authority that he agreed to admit and to accept. so now, well again, vladimir put and made it very clear. uh what he thinks about this gamble of you've given you precaution. so yeah, i mean wallace fonda buckner cheaper. yeah, kevin, you have got any precautions he's appeared in the video of hired to conducting talks with russia's deputy defense minister and military intelligence chief in rural cellphone. don't use that claim that his troops have taken control of a local field and a military come on center as well. seems subsidies we are at the headquarters.