rust off on dawn now. uh there were quite a few people here. uh earlier, however, uh, shots were fired, were heard an explosion as well. and people started just running away from this place. i could have been uh, the reason for that could have been one of 2 things. uh, they don't want any civilians here in case something is going to happen if they will try to take the headquarters, the military headquarters by a storm. however, a short while a while later people returned and are once again standing, trying to find out what's going to happen next. as we understand we've heard from various news sources, that's a police from the catching republic are coming here to and will this illegal happening? what's uh, what's going on here, and at that point uh,

hold for the oldest civilians will be gone. now, i've heard the people from the wagner private industry company, leaving it. civilian says, saying that there's going to be an air strike and basically trying to scare the people away from this place. tried to scare them straight. well, we will remain here for now. as the situation unfolds, vermont calls for emergency are all cell phones on. they just updates to more or more footage for you here in the suburbs of the city overall. and yes, a me 8 helicopter is reported to have made a hard landing with one person said to have been injured in the incident at their conference. police are being taken parking baffles between the russian army and wagner fights is the city itself. the wagner soldiers have also attempted to shoot down russian army customer helicopters. if you have a really quick look at the videos, the actual caliber advantage to the but themselves using essentially quite slice

the also what all has a large fire is right. you have an oil d 5 more than a 100 firefighters. on the saying, around a side note, the casualty reported at this time, but the level john was us. this report to go do not use it. it's about 1232 residents of the left bank of your on your sure the strong with left of the siren was heard as far as the trucks in the navigating through down the street. now even from the city center, you can see smoke rising from the entrance to the city. judging by the review on social networks, the cause of the fire was a helicopter crash. the governor confirmed the fire, the oil facility has been extinguished. could have been more than 100 firefighters to attend to the see, but what you according to initial data. but there are no victims, no video and start the explosion. and before i begin to, if you're before any official configuration and the same time authority is confirmed for reasonable incumbent activities in the region of the interior of wagner's private mil to company formation. the counter terrorist of duration has

been implemented in the region. the russian authorities qualified this as an animal comments coming out of moscow, as the russian minister of defense is called the ongoing events quoted precautions . criminal adventure said that some wagner soldiers have already laid down their arms, urging others to follow their example. or we appeal to defy this of developing a bmw csl squats. you have been series in the precautions, criminal, adventure, and participation in the insurgency. many of your cameras from several units have already realized their mistake seeking help to ensure the safe return replaces of permanent deployments. such assistance on l bought has already been provided to all the fighters and commanders who have requested it. we ask that you show discretion and get in touch with representatives of the russian ministry of defense or law enforcement agencies. as soon as possible, we guarantee everyone's safety. well meanwhile, right here in moscow,

i will forward his all strengthening approaches to the city. the capital security forces have set up barricades and reports. they taking up positions in southern moscow, a miniature equipment spotted at various different sites moving across the city with all my personal carriers station along the highways, all along the main roads to west and moscow. and that as well as local authorities have announced a counter terror operation of the capital old mass public events of being con, situation on the streets. it is com, the most good man saying there are no restrictions on the coming in or leaving the capital. what are they, what it does mean, limitations on the use of personal transport and communications. multiple checkpoints on the outside of moscow being put in place for extra checks for media blog goods and politicians have also been warned by authorities against distorting official information. allstate contributor rachel mazda, now reporting from moscow cities tend to amid the cities count of tyra operation as

well. it's a beautiful, sunny afternoon here in downtown moscow, and people are out and about enjoying the weather. but things are a little bit different. as russian president vladimir put announced earlier, anti terrorism measures have been put into place here in moscow, but also in the greater moscow region. and we have reports of checkpoints that have been set up and also national security personnel that are on alerts. now these anti terrorism measures have also been set up in a nother city. heard on this, which is about part way between here in moscow and are also funded on where wagner through fighters, based off against russian military earlier. now what exactly does this mean? what are these measures? well the last time they were use was in 1991 during and attempted to by a communist party hardliners against then president mikhail gorbachev. and they're

really, really rarely used. but um, exceptionally in this particular case. and what they mean is that checkpoints are set up that interception of communications, including email and telephone calls can occur. searches of bags or cars can occur at check points. people can also be asked to produce identification. so these measures are really exceptional. but um, for now, people are out and enjoying the weather and things don't seem to be too much different here in downtown laska now as they are the reason they apparently escalates russian authorities of bon websites affiliated with the box and a group. so i think there, inciting of violence among those restricted, there are a number of outlets belonging to the patriot media group in various communities on

social media. meanwhile, bosses assets are being searched and seized. authorities have confirmed the groups, offices and st. petersburg now have been rated by law enforcement. also security in that city is on a high, a lot of correspond that now reports from the same this morning in the city. we did visit several of mister precautions ad business premises, and we can confirm that several of them have now being rated and taken under control of the f s. b on here. at wagner's impressive corporate h q a just on the outskirts of st. petersburg, a significant military and security operation is underway and we believe the premises have been seized and are being searched at the moment. of course st. petersburg is a city of origin of of uh you have danny pre goes in. this elusive and interesting entrepreneur of qualified as a pharmacist initially and then progressed into various businesses which culminated in 2015, which is foundation of the wagner, p. m. c. a private military contractor,

which has grown into a very significant military force, of course, famous for its uh, at work and back much fast. so uh, in st. petersburg, the city is tom. there's a, there's a large ash, cute and celebration on site, which hasn't been cancelled. people are getting on with their business. but there is a sense that uh, the kremlin, and the government in moscow, particularly now that we've hired present, improved and set out, is still a very clearly about the position in moscow. regarding mr. goldman and wagner st. petersburg is quiet, but as we can see at the assets on the premises that belong to mister pre goshen, we can tell you that we have seen a f s b specialist and to those areas where the russian intelligence chief has now come out saying that wagner is a tenant to spot the civil war has failed saying, quote and russian citizens can do so in what the truth really lies. meanwhile,

the heads of multiple russian subjects and russian officials have come out to voice the support for the president. a good thing about virginia bocavicius has always been with the russian presidents and today, every citizen, the republic expresses, their full support is the president of the russian federation. lot of them are putting, one is allowed to trample into the mazda named savoy. songs with guy defended, no fatherland who died, protecting future generations, as i'm absolutely sure that the situation was to stabilize, the president will exercise his powers in full and companionable cholera as always, will stand beside him for everything that is happening is a knife in the back and the real mutiny i have repeatedly worn that war is no good time for voicing personal grievances and resolving disputes behind our lines. it's about stability, about the gauging of the state, about the security of citizens. there is no justification of such actions. i fully

support every wood of light to move, let emerge, boots in the fighters of the administrative defense, and the russian national guard in the church of republic have already said all through the areas face intentions will do everything to preserve the unity of russia and protect it statehood, the senate, the timber regions, supports the president fully the guarantor of the constitution and has a clear understanding of how important it is to have responsible and consolidated position from the whole of society, residents and leadership of all subjects of the federation. without exception in this current situation, and now i made reports of ongoing classes in the south of russia. the russian president has held a telephone call with his tucker's counterpart, who expressed a support for the kremlin and my food. and his also maintaining comes with the heads of neighboring states. bella roost was breakfast on because it's done to keep them informed on how this situation continues to unfold. now,

otherwise than measuring media, it didn't take long to pick up the story. well, fair play to them headlines speculating of a q and the quoting and verified information that that be ended, they add some fuels of the media file. i mean, reuters for example posted an article. so i think a, a source. and for me, the agency, the wagner, had taken control of the city of what on the edge information that had been negated already by the officials who are living in that region. let's learn more crossing live now to german and tony and america's professor of lower and south africa on the way. it's almost allison who's joining us here. one off the international a very well welcome to you so great to have you on this program with such a developing story as well. what do you make mister thomas house and what do you make of the timing of this attempted and rebellion? well indeed, good evening. you already and elizabeth and jeff, i'm as it goes, costs everybody like everybody else is following the events with the, with the right to prevention. and i'm, i'm part of a lots of groups which has some 7. i'm the leaders of the leading agency party here

. and saw that i forgot, and i just want to read you run line which came in about 30 minutes ago. may god multiply his support for russia. russia's pause is because of all the insult that you mitigated and downtrodden people of the world. this is a perception to large parts of africa the that to the trussel represents once again and its history. the he does have the disadvantage, the people that don't have a say the whole of every only contributes to point 4 percent to global g p. but it has with 1000000000 people 20 percent of the world's population. so there is a pre engine, the backward which is the timing of course is particularly perturbing because only a few days ago the african union president, together with the south african presidents over on the falls was sending goals.

president and 3 other leaders went under difficult circumstances for them to key if and to to st. petersburg to speak to the to presidents and urge that step the conflict has to know into a phase where a piece can be discussed. well, the fact that point, you know, mrs. thomas has not appreciate you basically giving us straight straight quotes here, analogy and sound. so it's good to have you on this program drained as well. continuation of rolling coverage of breaking news say what, what do you think you have got any precaution that is trying to achieve the latest report. so saying that his mat and his soldiers are on the way to moscow. what do you think, if indeed that's true, what are they hoping to achieve that? well, in my life, i tried to make a, a judgement of what's happening and those people are looking at what is the finding of their lives. and of course, we cannot overlook the doors and spend almost 10 years as a convict,

especially always having a sentence for having hey, this is the text in a sense of a woman to rob her. m to survive those 10 years to them. that loved skills, that normal people outside jail will not learn. and those are kind of us and other key traits that they also include render such a person completely selfish and completely irresponsible. so i think his action now is, is uh, is that true of a gambler? he is decided to put all his fortunes on one color on the left or read all like probably black and the ball is rolling and few sites will be determine this. and the screw attempts, no doubt, very difficult from far away to predict how brave the danger is. but i do think

that the national cohesion and russia will probably repellant the reject this adventure. what do you think though? i mean the voc in a group. it's been very successful in certain parts of the conference so far and ukraine, you go back to the, you know, most of you know, what's a buffalo without a lot of trouble. schools are known as bach moved. the wagner forces what credited really with, with, with a success is a, in the conflict and in those regions. and then you look at the ukranian counter offensive that have been going on since june, the full and even the west, the media admitting that they've all been a failure. and most of those counter offensive walker and up against the russian and the wagner. private ministry group as well. it's, it's, you know, it was a southern case of dissension in the right. and what do you think certain western partners will look at this and think well, that will be the full hope of course. and, and the presence of lensky has already made some noises. but this may put news because it will, we can, the, the cohesion of the,

of the russian military in bell ration. and it's a little distracted for buying forces inside of russia now. but uh we, we, we do have some historic experience with the volunteer falls off with one on 2 other counts like the famous or infamous french foreign legion that produced the most terrible, the most horrendous blood boss and algeria gotcha and rule. so we, we do know the dangers of private ministry enterprises, and this is why russian goal actually forbids the least in inside russia. and probably be there as being one has come from us on that role to, to make up for, for the fact that the russian defense forces were quite comfortable living in peace . and for a long time, nobody and frustrated. i felt that that would be another large scale miller to a fresh so um,

it was dangerous because you could say in the regular force has been allowed to grow to become very wealthy to become very strong. and um, and it will not have to be rain then there will be some, some lessons that will be learned from this. must mean forces. always a threat to human utility and role and to the stability in the country where they are, but certain changing to things that you do things on the day that rushes success in the conflict in ukraine is based largely on the success of the box and the group, do you think the russian military could achieve the goals of its special military operation without those fighters from bog now to well, from what i've seen. and what i saw these, i think bottom is entirely dispensable. it is dispensable, not indispensable. it is. we install every gonna have a, have a patrick the similar situation where about 70 percent of the country spending

in security goes into private security companies. and as a result of the state police and the state law enforcement agencies, i'll put on the private funding if the funding that has missed directed to a private industry where available to the official enforcement agencies and, and the police, we would probably have a much, much better safety and security in this country and i believe this is true for almost everywhere we have. similar developments occurs um, nothing, nothing can really substitute a professional ami, which is found by law, which has as he puts a long term training, especially if it is a professional muslim recruit army. and we've, we've also got the experience in world war 2 that um your volunteer units they,

they can have traumatic extra things that you can make movies out of. but they will not be decisive in the logic field in the back on today. i've only got time for one more question that i'm, i'm so sorry to ask you to kind of keep your opposite the less than 30 seconds. but latest reports, what was the magnified is a c in the south of moscow in the region. we understand they are reportedly moving north coming to the russian capital, and some people saying, well, the vault and it's not going to make it some most good because there are a few 100 kilometers away that busy here and then not going to get to moscow, but but then some people to say, well, you know what, a lot of involved in a fight as a, a conversely on a holiday, a lot of them arresting a lot of them are home taking a break off to being on the front line. a lot of them probably off picking their feet up in moscow. what it might take is a phone call to kind of riley the volume of troops to get them to will come out of their front doors and suddenly make an appearance in moscow. i mean, you've got wagner, guy to a property, recuperating here in the russian capital. you bought wagner, guys on the roads,

south heading north to moscow. how likely is it, do you think andre, the wagner, the troops will get into a center of moscow, potentially by 10 pm. this evening must go with time. yes, some western outlets. all speculation on this, the telegram channel. um, in a more developed country, of course, there is a high level of mobility of millions of people moving wrong all the time. and, and you cannot actually distinguish a, an innocent, private call from a private call filled with, with all the people was on essentially these, obviously a lot of people taking the law into their own hands. and um, and they feel comfortable and even even planning a pool and they are probably excited to possibly carry it out. and these things do happen in history to is do happen. and um and uh, russia is no exception. but um, i don't say much that actually

a handful of people people are saying 25000 people. but going those about $5000.00 hockey in africa and probably another $10000.00 also somewhere in the ukraine. and so i very much stuff. so it's difficult to get a very clear picture, isn't i? i think you're right on that. i. yeah, absolutely. and then i publish housing, a drum and authority in america is professor of lower and south africa. joining us life is the continuation about breaking news. i really appreciate your commentary and your time. thank you very much. thank you. good evening. good evening. thank you for joining us here at fault this program live for most of the updates are pouring in by the minute here at odd. see, we will return soon with more your, the, we've told you in the past about the u. s. department of veterans affairs, it's an enormous sprawling bureaucracy and is one of the most poorly run

departments in the entire us government investigators. they are deal on a daily basis with things like fraud, investment, drug crimes and other white color issues. but imagine going to work one day and learning that you're not needed to investigate these routine white color crimes. instead, you're needed to investigate a serial killer and even worse, a medical serial killer assessed you a pass who works under color of helping patients. as a medical professional, a doctor or a nurse, i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 our next guest is that rare person who has seen the darkest part of the underbelly of society. ru sacrament is a renowned investigator specializing and tracking down medical serial killers and is in demand as a consultant on the subject all over the world. he's

a former special agent in charge of the ne field office of the criminal investigations division in the us department of veterans affairs office of the inspector general, where he was responsible for criminal investigations into a 195 veterans affairs facilities. he's a licensed private investigator and is the president of the society of professional investigators. in addition to his professional credentials. he's the co author of the highly acclaimed book behind the murder curtain, special agent, bruce sacrament, hans doctors and nurses who kill our veterans, bruce sacrament. welcome to the show. we are so happy to have you a look. thank you very much. i'm actually honored to be here today. well, the pleasure is online. i've been looking forward to this for a long time. i have to tell you this conversation is, is going to be fascinating for me personally. there are probably fewer than a dozen people in the united states who have had a career focused on serial killers and even fewer who have focused on medical

serial killers. before we get to that specialization, tell us a little bit about your career and about how you got started in investigations to well, i started investigations of probably by watching too many colombo, i show you now. i'm not seeing a big, tough, dirty, harry kind of guide, but i used to watch columbia and i, so you know, i could do that. this guy is more brains and brawn, and i really like that. so i started out as an investigator with the us department of defense and i was investigating contract fraud and procurement for a line. and it was pretty interesting. and then jimmy carter way back when began offices of inspector general's in every federal agency. so every page of federal agency at that time and now just about every agency has an office of

inspector general and most offices of inspector general, all kind of torn to different directions. one is in the office of what it and one is an office of criminal investigations. i was responsible for the office of the criminal investigations for the ne united states. and i had a tremendous smorgasbord if you will, of cases to pick and choose from. because hospitals well hospitalized big cities and any kind of crime that could occur in a big city could almost kind of happened in the hospital. you know, we had procurement for the contract for what we had drug diversion. think of all the narcotics that are in the hospital. i mean we have the most complex scientific equipment to inexpensive items like diapers and everything in between. and we have with very, very concerned about medical records about the security and medical records. so

running the hospital is a very, very complex job, and unfortunately there's a big opportunity for some criminal activity. now what the v a, i must preface my remarks by saying that the old. oh, well, i'm going majority of the am for the most honest, hard working, dedicated compassion and people you'd ever want to meet. absolutely, yes, no, that being said, there is a very, very tiny percentage of people that will take advantage of the system. and unfortunately, the victims on nations heroes, and that's really so i was really on it in 2 weeks since i was on it to be in federal law enforcement. and i was honored to have a position that worked out for veterans that actually helped us

secure safety and security and the best health possible for our nation's heroes. it was a wonderful, wonderful position to be. and you had a long career at the department of veterans affairs. tell us about the case that made you an expert on medical serial killers. i have to assume that somebody doesn't just wake up one day and decide to start killing people. they operate on detected sometimes for many years and we're talking about doctors and nurses here. how did this all begin in that big case? well, you know, i'm working all these other cases that i just described. and all in one day, my phone rings, and i get a call from the chief of psychiatry at the northwood long island, b a medical center. and she says, bruce, oh, you're not gonna believe this. but we have a doctor working here who spend time in prison for boys and gets co workers.

and i'm looking at the phone and i'm from looking at my calendar as is this april 1st, is this like some kind of april fools, a joke or something. you know, and she says, no, this is really true. now what? i didn't think in the united states of america, you could spend time in prison for poisoning people and come out and be a physician. so i was wrong and natural, it started the story of a dr. michael swain, though dr. michael swindle killed people, not only united states, he told people with the world. do you know when he was in medical school, john, when he was in medical school, he was known as double swine. go license to kill all my gosh. twice fellow students in medical school and the dean and they said, you know, the, we don't think these guys wine bill should really be a physician. and the dean said, what do you know you only students on the dean. i think he could be a doctor,

but i think he needs more training. so let's keep him for about 6 months longer. right. this thing, you know, he ones up in ohio state university and he's killing people. and he winds up being in m e n t, and he actually toys him his co workers. he invited his co workers and he said, hey guys, you know, you worked so hard at some donuts in the donuts and they all got sick that night. and he calls them up, he says, tell me, will you symptoms tell me everything that happens. he's revealing the excitement of poisoning people, not only when he actually put the boys in on these donuts, but hearing how they suffered me. and it turns out that the donuts were actually sprinkled with loss, and they called me say it easy and t's are not stupid. about 2 weeks later, you consume with some ice t and they have the ice t test it and it's loaded with awesome that, wow, and the police did

a fantastic job and it gets 3 years in jail for boys in his co. ready marcus, and then he comes out and he's a doctor again. it to be a lot. it seems impossible. how could anybody pass a government background investigation and out of here license? yeah. and have your license reinstated? yes. well, i'll tell you this, this guy. it's an incredible sociopath, you know, he will, he wasn't mex marine and he got out of prison. and he gave the store, he says, you know, i'm an ex marine, i got fine. i got an a bottle in the roll. but here's a piece of paper from the governor, restoring my civil rights. nobody checked it, nobody verified it. and the next thing, you know, the guy is a doctor again, this time out in the west coast, and it'd be a facility and he's doing well.