then it's loaded with awesome. wow. and the police did a fantastic job and he gets 3 years in jail for boys and his co workers. and then he comes out and he's a doctor again. it to be a lot. it seems impossible. how can anybody pass a government background investigation and have your license? yeah, and have your license reinstated? yes. well, i'll tell you this, this guy. it's an incredible sociopath. you know, he will, he was an expert reading and he got out of prison. and he gave the store, he says, you know, i'm an ex marine, i got fine, i got an a bottle in the roll. but here's a piece of paper from the governor, restoring my civil rights, nobody checked it. nobody verified it. in the next thing, you know, there is a doctor again, this time out in the west coast, and it'd be a facility and he's doing well. he's actually engaged to be

a nurse. and then the story comes out and uh, everything turns terrible to him and his fiance and his fiance, her name was kristen kenny. just a beautiful, beautiful young lady. and she goes home to mom is he says, you know, mom, i really love this guy. swining go, but i can't live with them anymore after i heard what happened, you know, but when i was living with them, i was getting all these headaches for some reason, headaches. but i, i feel i feel better now. and the next thing you know, it's white glove shows up at the door and he so charming the charms is way back into hawaii. and about 2 months later she can't take it anymore again and she goes to the park. she takes out a gun and she blows her brains out of my complaint. and can i go for that? can you will actually you can. because even though she shot her cell and the family had the body cremated, they kept a lock of hair. and her hair was loaded with austin. you know,

manga was even poisoning his own fiancee. what will make a long story short, he actually lot winds up in my neighborhood at the north, for the long island, be a medical center. and you know, something interesting. he was there on a residency any guess what, what particular medical field in psychiatry that he had to go on front of the board of trying psychiatry. and can you this each and every one of them that he should be in the program. and he grad, incredible. and then that's when i got that phone call that sort of each i lived so, and i happened because one of my agents and i go down to visit him. now let me tell you this guy look like a movie. saw. just got off the golf course, wearing these ada saw sunglasses. you know, cells in john, if i didn't know better,

i want to introduce them to my own daughter. yeah. right. these are the next marine, dr. right. you know, spending on nation zeros, i'd say come on, the i says when i go join the family. wow. if i didn't know very well. so he's given me the same barring draws story and role. and then when i started challenging him, he's not so charming. he doesn't want to talk in the next thing. you know, he leaves the country, leaves the country. he goes to zimbabwe africa when he is in play africa because it's such a shortage of physicians. there. he's killing women and children and pregnant women, my god. and they have an arrest warrant, say him, but he returns the united states because he had to renew his passport. this boy went on yet to another country and we arrested him, but not for murder because we didn't have any evidence that he murdered anybody at all. here we were sent him, but every beverly, just,

they re crime line to the government. he said lie, or it's of the government. if you want to a federal agent, you're guilty of a felony. that's right. and 3 years in jail, full line through the government. so that gave us a window of opportunity, a window of 3 years, the trying to prove that he murdered any of our nation's heroes at the north port va medical center. and that's what started me on, on that particular journey. let me ask you to why is it so difficult to think for medical professionals to be able to spot a colleague who, who can kill in a hospital environment. medical professionals, of course, are supposed to 1st do no harm. is it, is that it, that they're supposed to be hillers, and not killers. so people generally don't suspect their colleagues of these terrible crimes. it will look if you are so inclined to commit

a number is what perfection and what location might you choose? right? tape, you might choose a profession that kind of gives you the legal power of life and death over an individual. what professions do we know how that, you know, you, you might want to take a profession where people take, you know, have dedicated themselves to saving lives. so who is going to believe that in this wonderful universe of compassionate people who have dedicated themselves to saving lives, these going to be someone hiding in that group next and charlie taking lives. it's almost impossible to believe. i mean, all your co workers have dedicated themselves to saving people. you see miracles performed almost every day in the hospital. and to believe that somebody is intentionally murdering people. is very, very difficult. you know,

it's very difficult for the fireman to believe that one of his co workers is actually starting fine. that's right, right. it's the same thing here. it's a universe of such dedicated professional people that no one wants to believe. now one of their co workers would be intentionally taking lots and i can understand that i can see we are speaking with an investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his investigations, into medical serial killers. we have to take a short break, but you're not going to want to miss the 2nd half of this conversation. stay tuned . we'll be right back. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the

the kind of situation that you find, although i think it's a great political opportunity to offer goods for the 1st time to articulate to the world, to say, listen, we have a multi, a whole lot of relationships with all the powers, the below of the world. and what would dictate relationships between african countries and those black homes? he's the national interest and i would seen that happening at the moment the the the welcome back to the whistle blowers, i'm john to reaku. we are speaking with renowned investigator and author,

bruce sacrament, about his work tracking down medical serial killers, those medical professionals who become self murderers. welcome back again, bruce. glad to have you. thank you, bruce to tell us a little bit about motivation, the, the average serial killer, when when one thinks about john wayne gacy or gary allan ridge way or dentist reader is a sociopath or a psychopath. who becomes more and more bold, often even taunting the police. but that's not the case with medical serial killers . does it tell us about their motivation? what leads them to do it? you know, i'll tell you what i've seen over the years. um, not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but this is when i put in this, i would say the number one. the number one reason that i've seen is something called munchausen syndrome by proxy right now. much as an central and black proxy is, is often displayed when a mother will maybe intentionally harm

a child and bring that child into the hospital. show the staff what a caring, dedicated, outstanding parent they are and is trying to be so compassionate, please help my child and they want the staff to give them understanding and compassion. well in some strange way. this is the same thing with medical c, o kills. you think about medical serial killers when you look at their evaluations, like ok, nurses, ok, doctors. except when it comes to code and a co writing, an emergency, a cold blow. and when you read the evaluations, you will see that big in an outstanding when it comes to code one of my medical serial killers. kristin gilbert, the doctors would say, you know if i ever cody, i would one kristin gill that there she starts barking or is it the young in turns was scanned out of her mind. she case control, she's

a hero. she's outstanding. why? this is one of these people want because to well feel like they will kind of put aside and they didn't get the attention that they. ready wanted i do when they ever consider there was continued more zeros and heroes. now, son and this is an opportunity for them to get the attention that they never had before. and now they don't care about the victims. victims is just an end to the means. they care about the attention that comes to them and that i've seen throughout the world is perhaps the number one we it's not exclusively, some people likes wind o. i just loved the power of life and death. nasa your power and then over the summer, what incredible high for him. you know, wanting incredible turn on that he could that by god that he had the power of life and death and, and that's also come. but there are a few other reasons. sometimes is a case ongoing in texas, now we're

a doctor is just pissed off at management and his co workers and he says, you know, i'm the best doctor here. he's a can even compare it to me and you know what they did to me. they took away some of my privileges, they reduced my office, they cut my money back, i will show them how so then when patients start going unexpectedly, then oh realize how important are you and they will come back to me. my god. yeah, are you pretty sure that those are some of the most common reason that i've seen throughout the world back this is be able to walk 2 or 3 years ago. i entertain the idea of writing a book about serial killers. i. i've written 8 non non fiction books, i thought it would be kind of a fun departure. and i especially wanted to talk about their motivation and what made them so bold before they were finally caught. so i wrote letters to 8 or 9

serial killers who were in prison, including some of the most famous names, many of them, including gary alan ridgeway the green river killer, the b t k killer son of sam tex watson from the manson family. they actually answered me, but their answers were all the same. they said they found jesus in prison, jesus had forgiven them. jesus was, was saving their lives, they were living their lives for jesus, etc, etc. ridgeway. ready even sent me, it was a big package, it had 50 religious pamphlets in it, and he asked me to distribute these pamphlets around my neighborhood. so of course, i threw, i threw them away. but my image, your conclusion was that, that there manipulative behavior continues in prison all these years later that, that this manipulative personality is what keeps them going. they think it's going to get them something to, at least profess to be christian,

for example. so my question is, is that also common among the serial killers once they've been caught? and if it is, how are they able to, to cover it up for so long as they build their medical careers? well, i guess it sort of a 2 point questions. the 1st part about being uh once, once they are incarcerated, well, many of them will decline to speed because there are additional murders out there. god. right? and they tried and convicted and even received the death penalty depending on where it occurred. so they're not going to do anything else, right? because when we suspect these medical serial killers are killing 36, the a 100 people often we don't have the proof on hand that they killed that many

people. right? you know, we have narrow it down to the very, very best cases that there are and pursue those cases. but they know they know there are other victims out there. and we should be able to prove yet another bit them, especially with some believe that they gave us, they could be retry, prosecuted and possibly even executed. so they're not going to say anything at all about that. all right, and you know it's something interesting because when the whistle blow is in the case of chris and gilbert, this is a real example of whistle blowers fan, had fluid backgrounds and you know, um some of them had a substance abuse problems. they had other personal problems, and they knew this was gonna all come out. but they had incredible coverage to comfortable us and tell us what had happened. well, what do you think happened after the trial? so question gilbert,

who were your legs killed about 30 of our nation's heroes at north hampton b, a medical center in massachusetts? uh, she goes to trial and she's found guilty. and the whistle blows with just tremendous . we wouldn't know that it wasn't for themselves. so when they return to work, do you think that the agree it is he will say, oh no. just the opposite. uh, just the opposite because you'd say what the hell do you do us? now when people drive by the hospital, they don't say, call this the hospital, let's say if my dad, that's the hospital, it does wonderful science. know basic, that's the hospital with the medical serial killer work. and why did you have to do that? you room the, for all of us, you room, the reputation. not. thank you for getting rid of the murder that they never, ever. all they heard was criticism from the a coworkers. why did you call these fact the general?

why did you believe bring the police in here? why did you bring all of his bad publicity to us while genetically the triple bruce tell us where people can learn more about the work that you do and about your book? sure, well the website is the same as the name of the work behind the murder cars dot com . it details all the stories of medical serial killers inside the va that i personally investigated, including doctors, wine, go and kristin gilbert and others, including a, a physician in albany that old in medical records to put the veterans into research studies. they should have never been ended and they were murdered. i mean, they're really some incredible stories in that book. and also, you know, there's a, there's a television show out there. cool. um. was it cool? very scary people. yes, thank you very scary. p h o n,

and it has 2 hours on swine go. yes, but i like to find people to um, to read the book, to go to the website, to email me. i get emails all the time from veterans and non veterans and people who have been victimized by this. and, you know, and so one thing we have to mention here is a whole human side to this john, you know, we talk about the statistics in the message, but these are human games. we're talking about what for the family search our show. so could you imagine, do i mean if i, if i rang your doorbell one day and i said, excuse me, sir, you know, my name is bruce saffron. and i'm from new v a. and we have reason to believe that your father's death was of a suspicious nature. can i go to the cemetery and dw nadia runs? yes. and can you imagine your visit like that? could you imagine sitting in a court room and hearing all this evidence of how your father was murdered and

a v a hospital asked that he spent his entire life? yeah, same thing, america reads right military to the movie, the hassle. imagine the human side is, is how you would see a and sometimes when we talk about this, this is how many mirrors and the techniques and all that. we forget to mention the human side of the families and the families have always been just amazing for me. just fantastic people. fantastic. well, thank you so much for spending this time with us. this was fascinating and we were very happy to have you. so i wanna thank bruce for joining us and for sharing his fast ending experiences. and thanks to our viewers for watching the author, bret easton, ellis, one said, quote, it strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not a bad and cruel place on quote. in many cases, i'm sorry to say that's true, but we're fortunate to have people like bruce sacrament out there doing the right

thing. i'm john kerry. aku thanks for watching the whistle blowers until next time . 2 2 2 2 2 the the way no one, no, no, no, no, no, not. for to most of the location of the unit 731 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program that the world hit every now

the, the somebody shares deal to russians, the ministry and security i thought was room. and those have been put on and search and see if i could see right away from my desk and a touch on the rush hour on op. even our options for type of play, not looking such a threat to be a lot of my persian address destination rounding the bog. never badly. an attack on russia and its people from in following the country will defend itself from treason . meantime, the wagner chief, if anything goes and explains old military facilities and the role of self including its field or under his control of thoughts of the russian ministry of defense overtures, those soldiers, the laid down their offices and all to you is on the ground covering these and folding events, the stand off site here in

a sense overall stop continues to the people administer uniform or apply that to a different company. uh, wagner, us fil a blocking off the street. so right next to the ministry headquarters here it is right here and muscular, rolling out the tendency, several measures strengthening controls on the road. so it's military vehicles, caffeine seed. and so the, and so some people to quote and get the history in the making others a corner, get a massive qualification, an apparent military newton the as being staged by the wagner of private military company with the russian president issuing a stock warning that is old bows, guilty of treason will be severely punished, but is the message from the russian president, in his address to the nation, where he branded the rebellion by the wagner, private military company, a stab in the back and

a threat to russian statehood shares. i'm addressing all the citizens of russia, so the armed forces, lower enforcement agencies when special services the fight. is it commodities a now in the insurance? so i was fighting against anybody a time by the doing this for a relatively the last night i spoke to the commodities in old areas as my i'm also addressing those who have been deceived onto the top of the grave crime and on for values today. but russia is fighting for its future, go fighting against aggression from neo nazis and them off to at least the 2 against us as part of the military with inflammation and economic power of the way the images are with fighting for the life and security of all people who draw sovereignty and independence for right to be, i agree with you to remain in russia. is it a country with a 100 year old host? right? yeah. what you, it's a bottle with the sites of all nation is being decided much than those. and it causes us all to be united with unity is of consolidation and responsibility. we

need your opinion and everything that makes us we must be put aside to about the i see any differences that may be used in all used by all enemies. to disrupts us from within the shade so. so the actions that splits all unity, i mean basically renegade years and you've seen against those fighting in the, from city. that's the, it's a stop in the buying the game style country and all nation for, for looks you and this stop was delta russia in 1972. we want the country was fighting in, well, what was the, what's the point do it's, it's big 3 was stolen and strongly. so what, what that, what intrigues and bickering behind the nations, by the time between is what great, cuz how much we get used to it. let's have a destruction of the army on the collapse of the states. but it was, that was also the cost to have it created. and the tragedy of the civil war, it was that when russians went against russia and easy enough, when i'm brother, went against brother, even though in various adventurous, don't foreign forces, profiting amounts of them, told the country of pop, you'll get a, we've got a, we will not let that happen again. when you grow,

we will defend our country. on all sides. hoods from any thread is discussed with, including internal treason. identities is what we are facing now is reason you don't need your big ambitions and personal interests may have led to the betrayal of one's country. one's nation and the cost of which boxes fights is and commodities were fighting along with the armed forces, the towns and villages of don't. boswell, they for the world gave their lives to the new russia. that's the unity of the russian. well, the name and glory have been betrayed by those who were trying to organize and on for 1000000000, pushing the country towards on a key on fratricide, put on ultimately to the feet, and the capitulation put both renewal for the pete. any internal rebellion was both a deadly threat to all state that to us as a nation. you know me, i mean, it's a blow against russia, but even against people at all action to defend all month alons against such that the threats will be harsh. you does it go to all those who deliberately went on the

path of treason prepared and on a rebellion, you end up having terrorist attacks with a negatively be punished as well by the valley, so they will be able to held accountable by going by silk. you've done the bus beyond full system given the necessary while the slaves eating is on the additional empty terrace security measures have been imposed in moscow event in the most or region. and a number of other regions slip with a decisive measures will be taken to stabilize the situation in front of it all on done, which still remains difficult of. what of the civil and military organs of governance is essentially blocked? the way of moving is such presidents of russia now clause mentioned that you just as a citizen of russia come up, i will do everything in my power to defend the country, the one that will defend its constitution. most of the lives of security and liberties of its citizens. with those who organize and prepare the item for balancing the stone tons, weapons the games they come back home, right? so the trade rush off, they'll lift, which will be held accountable for that. or you can be able to those who are being

drawn into the way that goes, then i called upon you not to repeat the grave and tragic mistakes and stopping to any participation in these criminal actions order from the see what i'm show that we will defend and protect, what is the insight put to us together with all motherland to mean, we will either come any all deals that are with them will be coming with even strong cost get well, we'll see it to you. but did you in a while a reaction to coming from the wagner chief you have, can you put a goshen? he's denied the accusations of. treason says he's going to save the country from ruin or blaming the russian ministry of defense for the common crisis. so how did the feud between wagner and the russian pop bras escalate to what is apparently an on youtube? any? it's breaking down with all these eco staff. a quick reminder. it will begin on friday when uh, the head of the founder of the wagner group, you've done you precaution. he accused the russian defense ministry of shelling, one of its training sites. d, from the home front. the russian defense ministry denied all such claims. they said

that while the video that was posted by the telegram channels affiliated with the wagner groups, which was reported to show the aftermath of the shelling, they said it was fake and that nothing of the sort happened. but you can, you precaution, he was already held bent on uh, continuing and it is now now that in hindsight it can be, we can say that he had it all planned in advance. and this is like a, uh, it's like a chess game for him. and he did obviously sold that a few moves that had to just touch base. you have any pedagogy and demanded to meet the russian defense minister of the chief of the general staff pagoda in the morning. but if his request was declined, his troops would march on moscow. or wagner soldiers have since been advancing towards the russian capital with the lip at scro region being the latest area where the wagner military hardware was spotted. and the original governor relates a statement saying law enforcement agencies are taking all the necessary measures

to ensure the safety of civilians report say, yeah, the 2 entry points to the city all for the pets got already blocked numbers. you know, the other groups volts is what seen in a photo. again, it should be a southern city of draw stuff on the on being the 1st territory is that the wagner troops entered the more now. and what's happening in lift heads is this on our local channel, which is your, your, on the cartridge. just read this given right now, i mean, leap, it's, everything is quite in the city. no military equipment has to be nose this year. we've been is located at about 40 to 50 kilometers from the nearest federal highway and then the roads are blocked. the area of the region, however, a number of regional rows go through the region lead into most custody to doing past events have been cancelled in the city today right here. and there is also information on the internet that the regional rows are being docked up on the borders of doing the screens. you enter the number, the last have specifically used to be wide lies. yeah, i sort of say the full control of the situation which release of information to have just been received. the entrances to the city of people who are blocks and you're going to alternative direction to moscow. provide them that given to the

property in your hard time, to learn more here on, on the international crossing live to political on foreign policy experts. so for will come out due to his joining us here with a continuation of breaking news on the international mr. do who is a role research right here at moscow and a real pleasure to have you on the program. and it has been a dramatic day of events in russia so far. and just if i may, what you've seen so far today, what are your thoughts on everything that's been happening so far? a v 0. do you mean to? yeah, be extremely concerned as to walk up what is happening in russia. because the last year has been the office started playing the end of the time, tested to print and ran out for and is in danger. it is quite obvious that typically it's in that kind of a shock be far also. so i foster and far more side would be she was to be very careful that and i'm sure she was going to be safe and secure and they

have the da she and so would be safe and secure as such. having said so, i would also empty to them, i'll send to the loops that they should give up their um, send come to the negotiating table and discuss the issues with the president of allowing me to put in and this. and i'm sure that girls that table, i mean, go share, that separate man can be arrived at as such. lots to i on those 10 if like russia is going to a very bonded about a situation right now. already it has a lot of repeat your praying for so long and better has been no game, no loss so far added to both the countries, us operating ukraine as well as that. actually, i'm many soldiers have been moto, on both sides and hundreds of cb liam's have been killed on both sides. so it is a notary ton water as such. and in that kind of a situation when this in the middle cool by the rag and that was the group takes

place off.