as well, the method demonize them. and so there's a lot of things they do. that's wrong. i'm not justifying gang members doing what they do well, people don't realize or is that these are human beings and you wouldn't be integrate capacity. and i know because i work with gang when we like them. i've actually work with m. s. 13 and 18 street. i've actually been to a salvador for over 30 years. i've gone there working with them. i went to 10 present that i've been to, was my life been imagined on doris. i spend many years and many people. um, so i know the kids that are hurting tomba, tyson, and tommy ties and others. they need to be given a lot of care to me. it's not about just putting them away. it's about giving them what i call the it's tougher to care for me than tougher to be on. uh, you know, just be a tough guy with them. you know, when, when look at, it has done is created a bigger game and they get presents and they got more arms. it's always done. and

so, yeah, you can fight these guys with a bigger gang and it was done in united states. you know, the 1st things united states, especially industrial, united states, were irish immigrants and eastern european immigrants and italian immigrants. they were the kids that were poor, didn't have anything. they came and worked in the was, you know, come jobs and, and guess what happened to it became gangs too, but don't you have to let me but i, but i'm just thinking, as i'm, as i'm listening these, say this, i'm thinking and i'm looking at these pictures these guys i'm, you know, with these guys look so hard. i mean, it's almost like it gets to a point where i'm not sure you say everybody is sell salvageable on, you know, gods are, and i get that, you know, and i'm a catholic and i understand. but does it go to a point where they are almost like impossible to be able to salvage with, i mean, look at these guys, they think, well, that's a good question. and i think if it needs to be answered and i agree with that, i mean i wasn't know, solve it on 2010 and the violence went down. 70 percent. they're talking about the

by this going down like 50 percent now. the bothers went down even further. why? because there was an effort to bring these gangs together to have a piece to get him to this arm because i was witnessing when they were turning over all their guns. i also helped create it wasn't just me what others recalled as soon as it boss, if you will do that well, but jones were created in these bottles were m as 13 n a can speak could come together. they could do garden integrated skills, they did murals, they couldn't work together and actually help but faith that was completely undermined by the us government because i, i, i saw what happens us government put this thing you can do, this can work with gags. you can't negotiate with gangs, and then the sour during government at the time. it wasn't, look at it at the time. the story to know all of the store and has worked on it. and it went back to work for the students. is that you said something interesting in other solutions could be try, try to get to them before they become arden,

try and get to the younger ones, you know, teach them new skills and yet it's always seem to me and i've always believed that we should put more money and recreation and cultural development in education. it seems like we lose you and i live in a country now where every thing is about a police action and military's ation. and i think maybe that has to do with money. i don't know. it seems like some people think it's, it's, it's more efficient, easier and certainly more profitable to just stick them in jail than it is to help them. right, but we're just thinking about what's happening with this big prison issue to present outside of the largest and americans. apparently, 40000 people can be held there. that's what i hear. they can, they're going to be held for 30 years, at least, maybe their whole lives. let's say it's $20000.00 per person. because in united states and in california, it's like $46000.00 to hold. a person in inmate in prison for one year had up

227-0000 in california of 270000. so what happens and also i wonder when you have to pay 20000 say it's not quite 40020000. it's billions of dollars to keep people locked up away from the end and you know what, they're still human beings. something's gonna happen with them. and that's what happened in california. we created, disagree. the housing unit. we created a super max. is that a now that they're being re looked at because they actually did more damage, but people came out more worse than when they came in. i see where you're going here though, and i'm just doing the math in my head. obviously. if it costs $46000.00 minimum to keep a person in prison in california. if you had from the very beginning. and i know this is crazy because it's a lot to give them, but given them the $46000.00 and created a job, an opportunity for them. i don't know. the thing is the given them the job. they

are probably would not have become gang members, or maybe i wouldn't have become, i guess i'm, i'm hoping you know, oh yeah, well we used to say and this came out of the 92 uprising, los angeles, when bludgeon crips were actually united with mexicans. so people don't know that part of the only know about the violent, they don't know that people are trying to get together and they had a statement, give us the hammers and the nails. and we were, we built our communities that to lose a powerful statement. weight and nobody took them up on it. nobody gave what? okay. can we bought our roads? can we build new housing and the better schools give us the skills and i'll tell you it wouldn't let me. i wasn't game. remember, i would get a book, always you any bestselling book here, again, a book called cause you back about what i went through. my own style was an a gang of chicago. it's been almost 15 years in prison. there were both doing good right now. we're helping others, we change people's lives. and i've been doing this for many years. and i remember in the early seventies when we were getting hard core gang members because you know, you know, again tell me that these kids and m as their team,

they're hard core. but i've met hardcore people, but only i, i've gotta say we can change their mind at least a going. you're going to think less of me for saying this, and i apologize if you do. but i have to say it because i think it's something everybody else would think when they watch this. i'm looking at new lease. i don't see gang member. i don't see past. can remember. you have like a decent guy. somebody is dad. maybe somebody is grand dad. when i look at these guys with those tattoos on their faces. yeah, well, i kind of see when i was 16, you would have seen the same to i don't have typed using my faces, but all those tattoos came okay. let's just go back to that you kind of which i know by true cause we're round it up in the thirties and forties people forget about that. they were rounded up and put in special and she kind of tanks these. we have to kind of taking the county jail. mexican american just means mexican american. yeah. now in los angeles, actually. yeah. and they were rounded up and by the 50s they created the 1st and largest prison gangs that became quite active in criminal activity. they became

bigger than all the things that people couldn't imagine. they put them in send quitting that, that. well, we're going to tied them inside quitting, and they actually became stronger the creative shoes. and the action became stronger than the other prison gangs, other racial minorities who, but it was great in present gangs. it got worse and worse, and the subject dorians, lot of mazda, others that came as migrants news during the war's ended up in those vials, they members, 13, been starting. no, salvador is started and down a m. uh, 18th street was that you kind of game for 20 some years before this type of noise and others got into 18 street. in other words, we're just continuing that against a cycle and it gets worse and worse. and i, and are you go in and go to kind of funny, they're all the tattoos in their faces. it's worse and you're in central murder. you see it all the time. but i, i work in the prison system for 40 years. i go and move them, that they're out there. what have we done? yeah. make these. you know what i'm saying?

even when i wasn't again, things are bad. we had done. people drive by. i lost 25 friends. by the time i was 18 in the sixties and early seventies and things have gotten worse, and i think has to do with being tough on crime, putting people away g show with nice people not providing rehabilitation, not providing real resources and i give it in the amazon. busy as a metaphor and rebuild their communities. this is why i think things have gotten back well, and you mentioned that vicious cycle i want to address that up. but let's do this. we're going to take a break. but when, when we come back, i want to address that vicious cycle because that gets us into a conversation about our own foreign policy, which is perhaps the genesis of much of this we're talking with luis, have you had rodriguez? i'm really 1st hand knowledge about this gang situation that we're talking about. you stay there by the way. i have a pod cast where i as a journalist as a lot, you know, as an entrepreneur,

i tell my story and i share with you what i've learned how to succeed, how to grow, how to fail. it's called the rick sanchez podcast. i invite you to check it out and i will see you there. but when we come back, let's go to that point. how is it that getting members in america who now end up going back when they're deported to their country, who end up recruiting new gang members? how that actually started in the fifty's and sixty's and seventy's and some and eighty's with our. busy our foreign policy in those countries, countries in latin america. i'll take you through it today, right there. we'll be right back the the,

the welcome back. i'm at sanchez, you know, one of the most amazing angles to the story is that the same immigrants arrived in the united states as children and are now recruiting and training other children in places like el salvador and others to become gang members. just just like them and think about it that those children emigrate to the us are jailed here, deported that set back to their countries where they recruit the other children. talk about a vicious cycle right. of talking to us once again is luis rodriguez reese, javier rodriguez, who can speak to this from, from real experience from a life well, lived through some hardship. so what do you make of that? i mean, i mentioned earlier, you know what we did in guatemala? i wish we hadn't done it, but you know, foreign policy is a funny thing and you could always go through history and find mistakes. but while

you know our intervention during the reagan years in el salvador, in nicaragua, in honduras countries, that was sort of destabilized you couldn't, i'm not going to argue politics here. so i'm would say we needed to do it. so i would say we didn't, but whatever, whatever, whatever it is, the reason we did it, it had a blow back. and that blow back was we ended up with young boys here who had no fathers who came from those disastrous situations. and then they became delinquents, and from delinquents, they kind of grow into hardened criminals. how does that happen? well, they may have to do some more, which is bad, you know, but then they end up in another words on the inner cities of america, which has, she kind of gangs has religion. cripps has a gang side of chicago wherever they landed, but and, but let's say just like they got very close to that you kind of body or say, well, living in bottles of what you guys have been to 4234 generations now. and not that you guys are getting married with a gang members a hardon, and they've been to

a long time. they became integrated in those gangs. here's what happens though, and 92, there's a piece of gorge finally, and also we're doing. but in the us, under a democratic present because i think there's a democratic republic and um, it's a problem for both of them. besides to support them. these are kids that were raised here. their tattoos came from here. i wasn't also, i'm during the eighty's, they didn't have to have dues then have that kind of getting back together there. there's the people that were grim, but nothing like us. we put in a whole culture from at least streets down there with nothing, no skills and nothing short. they didn't even know. i went on what my, when i was a journalist when i was a corresponded cnn. i was once assigned to cover that and i took it upon myself. i called the the folks with immigration who do this kind of thing. and i said, i want to be on the plane. i want to go and they said ok, you can go, your journal is up. they took me on the plane, i was, i was able to find out many of the people who were on those planes and being sent back to these countries. i went with them to uh uh to uh,

i believe it was. busy was uh, hunters and there was a god, but uh, i remember they didn't speak spanish and when they let them go for the plan, they went there and they said as they were americans and they were, they were, how did they look badly, but didn't come gated together they began to become cool. he so and because the countries are still poor, all these countries are talking about under is quite a model. sometimes they're so poor that they had a world that they can work in and, and even not all of them, but they comply the criminal knowledge i got from california to prison. and that's where you see the expensive forbid. i was there in 93. i was talking to these guys are barely putting to talk to face things by and by the time i came back in 20, in the early 22000, they were all now they were cohesive. now they were recorded new kids that were lost for kids that know where to go. they, you, deputies, alley guides. these guys were tough and tattooed and they will be looked up to him

because these kids were all alienated, didn't know what to do, where to go. and then to begin to recruit large numbers, the viewport patients that we did impacted these countries without sending these kids properly. so before careful. yeah, and i get it because then they went there and then they recruit others who aren't in the gang live, but they teach them the gang live, they get hardened, sometimes they get deported or they may immigrate to the united states cuz they have clean records. nobody knows who they are. yeah, they come here and they get arrested and it, it just continues is worse and worse. and then they give it portrait again. you know, so we created and i was talking about the us policy is your okay, we got, we understand salvador has upper hand and it, everybody's got ahead and it's breaking down our family's poverty. but our policies have contributed to all these to the violence. and then i was there when we were trying to change that in the us government stain as you can negotiate with gangs, you can know gags can do nothing. they've been brought rudy. god juliani to our

salvador in guatemala, where he said, put them on a way. what? because doing is truly honest. okay. i don't know. pretty cool. this is juliana kimball. they paid him millions of dollars when i was going and also i'm affraid myself. nobody gave me money, but he did pay the moods and dogs to come in there and say, let's put them on a wait and look what color is doing exactly what this is? this is a policy that we tend to show in this country too often where we just don't want to talk to people we'd rather for some reason, we'd rather have enemies then develop ways to get along. you know, whether it's the china policy, the way we treat russia and the wars we get into in the middle east. i mean, we could go down the list of things that we have in here at our own country. the way we often use the fist rather than the open hand, now i get it to, there's times when you need to use the 1st one when someone's a piece of you know what? you need to put them away and they really are bad. but if you make that decision

too early you, you, you create the possibility that you're making the problem worse and that, and i think i get, although there's a part of me that i have to ask you this. my my father passed away last year and i still listen to this day. but i remember he always told me, he said son, i grew up rough. i only have a 4th rate education. i was shining shoes for a living in my country in cuba. and i had p bad guys all around me all the time, i saw a guy smoking marijuana and doing drugs and stuff, but i never did drugs that ever smoked marijuana. and i always, why is my dad could have figured that out, get these other people figured out what, what is, what's the more of getting life and gets to these kids? and why couldn't the way to avoid this? isn't this just make clear that most of annoyance in the us and, and also doing a good job by the hard course of course. yeah, we're doing it. we're not a way to talk here, but yeah, and so we're talking about and they raise their kids even with no money for the

razor because the best it can were talking about kids are sort through the cracks. what can we do to staff those cracks because i far to get back to my from none of my business suitcases, grab the gang, my mother and father word card. why do i fall through the crack? you know, and i've written books about it, why some guy like me would do that. and then also how some guy like we could get out of it. you know, you mentioned how i look pretty good up to you. funny story. i went to president, north carolina, 200 and all black. i walk there because they said, hey, this guy was a former game memory about all of this book. they looked at me, i walked into there and they laughed at me. and i looked like the janitor or their uncle steve and said it was my uncle whenever they were laughing at me. but i came in there or walked in there to they didn't think i was a hey, we do it again. but once i went through, i walked up and start telling my story. i talked to him with a winter, so green by 40. they were still happening. listen. and by tell me i got through, they gave me a standing ovation, was the youngest people can change. i look this way now because i've changed for many years. my son did 15 years and pretty. you should see him. he looks like

a real positive young man. he wasn't that way when he forgot it to prison. people do change and even looked at, i work with a guy that zip 30 years in prison from where he was a shot kind of one of the big gangs here in that late. now he's going into juvenile house and helping get the game permission because he's teaching a biology and drawn me, he's changed their lives. i know it can happen. and that's what i, that's my story. we need to do more that just kind of in money, not enough support is there's just not enough. but when we do it, it works. why don't we do it? i mean, is there d, i, we mentioned this earlier and i'm not sure i got a proper response for it, but the, the, the think it's greed. do you think about when people make too much money on prisons to us for us to do it? any other way and going back to even though so i wonder how much money would take to keep somebody in prison. there's a whole industry here how to fund you're creating a huge and generally st. just california, all the states. but california led most of the big, huge,

giant mass incarceration system. and now we're doing california now we're trying to change that. we're trying to reflect the prison. we're trying to get people out of that. we're trying to give, we're trying to help. i'm not saying it's going perfect, but we're trying to do something lease how we're rodriguez. uh, thanks so much for taking the time to take us through this very personal experience and this part of the story. thank you. once again in my honor, thank you for we go, i want to remind you that why we do interviews like this when we think they're different. we have a mission that's really pretty simple. we want to do the silo. the world. i mean, we've got them, we've got to stop thinking in terms of this, that little box is, you know, you've got to be on the right of the left to the side of that side. truth don't live in boxes, truths live everywhere, right. how much sanchez are we looking for you right here for i help to provide a direct impact the

the, the, the issues i appeal to russians, the military and security agencies. and those have been pushed into the positive on the insides and see by the state and the threat. this is an attack on russia or not people, and our actions to protect the homeland and such as threats to be addressed is the nation. brian thing the ball going to rebellion and attack on russia. i think people from following the country will defend itself from trees in the fall. going ahead. you have any particulars in claims, old military facilities and will stop and keeping it filled up under his groups

control best as the russian m o d o z as of august. so just to lay down that all t is on the grounds covering the unfolding events. stands off, i hear just says, overall stop continues to be people with military uniform, all small private ministry company. wagner are still a blocking officer. this feeds uh right next to the ministry headquarters here. and keep in moscow, roll out on t, tara measured strengthening controls on the road since the military vehicles are see near the kremlin, the a take pm, hey, in the russian capital. and this is all to international with the latest news on thanks a very well and welcome to, you know, top story, although is guilty of treason will be severely punished. that's the message from russian president vladimir putin in his address to the nation,

where he branded the rebellion by the vault, the private military company stop in the back. and the switch to russian stated a hi shares. good, i'm addressing oldest citizens of russia so, so the armed forces, lower enforcement agencies and special services. the fight is in commodities and now in that bottom positions. so those are fighting against anybody at times by the doing this for a robot please. last night i spoke to the commodities in old areas as my i'm also addressing those who have been deceived onto the top of the grave crime and on for values. today, proseries fighting for its future goal fighting against aggression from neo nazis and them off that he's looking to into against us as part of the military with inflammation and economic power of the west. the images are with fighting for the life and security of all people to do it. defrost sovereignty and independence for right to be. i agree with you to remain in russia. is it a country with a 100 year old history? did you see what you?

it's a bottle with the sites of all nation is being decided much on those and it causes us all to be united. with unity is of consolidation and responsibility. we really need your immunization and everything that makes us weak our must be put aside to about. so i see any differences that may be used in all used by all enemies to disrupt us from within the shades of the actions that splits all unity um basically renegade option, it's against those pricing and the from city that's the, it's a stop in the box the game style, country and all nation, but for looks you and this stop was dealt to russia in 1970 we, while the country was fighting in wealth, but one went through its, its victory was stolen from it. so what would that, what intrigues and bickering behind the nations bodies, 10 digits of a great catastrophe, and actually get used to it, led to the destruction of the army and the collapse of the states. but it was the loss of the cost temperature. and the tragedy of the civil war, if the wind russians went against russia and easy enough when i'm brought the ones against bravo, even the various adventurous and foreigners forces profitable amounts of them and

told the country a pa, you'll get a we've got a we will not let that happen again. when you grow, we will defend our country, an off site to it's from any threat is discussed with including internal treason. abilities is what we are facing now is reason you meet the big ambitions and personal interests. they have led to the betrayal of one's country, one's nation. and the cost of which box is fights is and commodities were fighting along with the armed forces of the towns and villages of don't boss where they fall in the middle and gave their lives for the new russia. that's to the unity of the russian. well, the name and glory have been betrayed by those who were trying to organize in on for 1000000000, which pushing the country towards on a key on fratricide. for an ultimately to defeat and capitulation for renewal of pete. any internal rebellion was both a deadly threat to all state that. so us as a nation here on the, i mean it's a blow against russia, but even against all people at all action to defend um,

other lines against such as the threat will be harsh. you because a couple of old eyes who deliberately went on the path of treason, a peasant on verbally and you end up preparing terrorist attacks will inevitably be punished, have to worry about valley. so they will build, held accountable by know, by still keep the bus beyond full system, given the necessary or waste ways you can use the additional um, the type of security measures have been imposed in moscow. even the most or region and a number of other regions, stuff with a decisive measures will be taken to stabilize the situation and brush it all on done. which still remains difficult. of the work of the civil a minute to the organs of governance is essentially blocked. the way of moving is as president of russia now. come on, you mentioned that as a citizen over russia, i will do everything in my power to defend the country, to defend its constitution, most of the lives of security and liberties of its citizens. with those who organized and prepared the i'm for valiant in the stone tons weapons against they

come back home. right. so the trade russia level will be held accountable for that . are you able to those who are being drawn into the cause? i called upon you not to repeat the grave and tragic mistakes and something that any participation in these criminal actions order from the see what i'm show that we will defend and protect what is the insight put to us together with all motherland to mean we will either come any old deal that of with them will be coming with even strong cause get we'll, we'll see it through the vulgar change that yes. can you put this in house to night, doctors, ations of trees and claiming his saving the country from ruin, or blaming the ministry of defense for the current crisis. so how did the feud between vault and the russian top ross escalate to the mutiny? i'll tease it, goes to almost breaks down how it all started. a quick reminder, it will begin on friday when uh, the head of the founder of the wagner group, you've daniel precaution, he accused the russian defense minister yields shelling one of its trainings sites deep from the home front. the russian defense ministry denied all such claims. they

said that while the video that was posted by the telegram channels affiliated with the wagner groups, which was reported to show the aftermath of the shelling, they said it was fake and that nothing of the sort happened. but you can, you precaution, he was already held bent on uh, continuing and it is now now that in hindsight it can be we can say that he had it all planned in advance. and this is like a, uh, it's like a chest game for him. and he did obviously sold that if you moves ahead, they say yes, can they put a goes in demo? they send me the russian defense minister on chief of the general stuff. they won't, if the request was declined, his troops would head to most of the troops have since been advancing towards the russian capital with the pets region being the latest area. wedlock military hardware has been spotted, the regional government released a statement saying law enforcement agencies and will start to use

a taking all necessary measures to ensure the safety of citizens withhold. save it to entry points to the city of the pets got already blocked, or the other groups forces was seen in photo onus would be southern the city of roosevelt. on being the 1st territories vaux and troops entered with more now on what's happening in the pets case, a local journalist. yeah, and because it's just really just given right now, i mean leave, it's everything is quiet in the city. no military equipment has to be noticed. lapreski is located about 4050 kilometers from the nearest federal highway and then the roads are blocked in the area of the region. however, a number of regional rows go through the region leading to moscow. best events have been cancelled in the city today, right? there's also information on the internet that's the regional rows are being docked up on the borders of deepest region, but it never the less of specifically leaves wide light sources say they are in full control of the situation which leads to the information has just been received the emphasis to the city of people who are blocks into alternative directions to

moscow by giving the low on the flags that cost a lot of 2 political analysts direct krause now many thanks for joining us on the program this evening. it's been an extraordinary few hours of 4 people in rush. so what do you make of the timing of the attempted to rebellious and it's fairly catastrophic considering that uh, the ukranian offensive had been sailing. and finally, even the western press was obliged to acknowledge that ukraine was not going to be victorious over russia. now everything is back in place. and nobody that i know had predicted what you saw today. it seemed quite impossible, but it is treasonous. mister promotion, who had been citing to rosalie on the russian side, and now it appears to be doing everything he can to assist ukrainians. it is after

the extraordinary and nobody could have predicted what we've been seeing, what we seen happening in the last few hours now with the escalation between the vault of group in the army intensifying. we still haven't seen any tension with the city tension among russian. the lead from the army does not send a signal to the rebels. do you think? uh, i don't. it's, it's, it's a little difficult to understand why to go to the shows this time. it shows it's, you're talking about the psychology of one individual. it's a bit like mr. kirk's in. um, you know, apocalypse now or heart of darkness. he's gone rude. he believes that it's a he, it against some sort of corrupt machine and he has a, it's gone through. it's gone to his headings probably been under too much st.