to me and walk bull walk me through it. so it was, it's victory was stolen from it. so what would that, what intrigues and bickering behind the nation's bodies turned it into a great catastrophe. and i should get, you elect to the destruction of the army on the collapse of the states, but it was the last of the boss territories. and the tragedy of the civil war. it was that when russians went against russia and easy enough, and when i'm brother, went against bravo. even the various adventurous and foreign forces, prophet tapes, most of them and told the country of pa, you look beautiful, you know, we will not let that happen again. when you grow, we will defend our country and all states hoods from any thread is discussed with, including internal treason identities. what we are facing now is the reason you part of the big ambitions and personal interests may have led to the betrayal of one's country. one's nation, and the cost of which box is fights is and commodities were fighting along with the armed forces of the towns and villages of don't boss where they fall in the middle and gave their lives to the new russia. that's to the unity of the russian. well,

the name and glory have been betrayed by those who are trying to organize an on for 1000000000, which pushing the country towards on a key on fratricide. putting an ultimately to defeat and capitulation between you will please repeat any internal rebellion, which is a deadly threat to all state that to us as a nation on the, on the, it's a blow against russia even against all people at all action to defend um, other lines against such a threat will be harsh. you is a couple of old eyes who deliberately went on the path of treason, a peasant on verbally and you end up preparing terrorist attacks would inevitably be punished about very so they will build, held accountable by little by still give them the bus beyond full system given the necessary order, ways you can use the additional um, the type of security measures have been imposed in most got the most are region and a number of other regions. stuff with a decisive measures will be taken to stabilize the situation and brush it all on done, which still remains difficult as to what of the civil and military organs of governance

is essentially blocked. the way of moving is, as president of russia now, come on demand chief as a citizen over russia. i will do everything in my power to defend the country, to defend its constitution. i'm sure the lives of security and liberties of its citizens. with those who organize and prepare the on for 1000000000 tons weapons the games they come back home, right so betrayed. russia will be held accountable for that. you can be able to those who are being drawn into this way. and because i called upon you not to repeat the grave and tragic mistakes and salt in any participation in these criminal actions order from the see what i'm sure that we will defend and protect. what is the insight put to us together with all month, alonzo? we will overcome any all deals with becoming even stronger get through view of law. i'm going to see if you're getting any progression haven't denied accusations of trees. i'm claiming he was quote,

seen in the country from ruin while blaming the ministry of defense for the con classes. so how did the feud between lava and the russians help boss escalate to um, to meet today all season english. i know breaks down how it all started. a quick reminder. it will begin on friday when uh, the head of the founder of the wagner group, you've done you precaution. he accused the russian defense menissi of shelling, one of its training sites deep on the home front. the russian defense ministry denied all such claims. they said that while the video that was posted by the telegram channels affiliated with the wagner groups, which was reported to show the aftermath of the shelling, they said it was fake and that nothing of the sort happened. but you can, you precaution, he was already held bent on uh, continuing and it is now now that in hindsight it can be we can say that he had it all planned in advance. and this is like a, uh, it's like

a chest game for him. and he did obviously sold that a few moves that had all the, the events. so i'm going to unfold and rust off those while no rebels had sort of in. so most of the month when i met the live it's region was and then last area with bob. lemme see hardware had been supported. the original governor release the statements saying law enforcement agencies. and the thought of these were taking all necessary measures to ensure the safety of citizens, the attempt to hold their value of 5 is in fact some road policy does up at the request of local authorities previously this. well, since we're also seeing in the nation that are on there, i'm m, i ate a ton cable is reported a made a hard landing with one person in the, in the isn't the ad. cloth is believed to have been taking part in brussels between the russian all me and bob, the 5 to is aside from that,

there are photos circulating on social media. rubel the showing the debris of a k a 50 to any homes i just came to been shut down by the baldwin group. in the city of one ish itself. it's a revolt of the crew for locals. while the 5 is also ripples, they attempted to shoot down another russian army had to go to the ad golf. however, it is said to have deployed decoy flat as the dies. the missiles also in nevada is a large fire has been raging as an oil. definitely more than a 1055 to send the fly. so the things i'm preventive from, spreading to other nearby stories packed because of the local office. and there wasn't capital forces have been deployed to secure approaches to the city barricades of been set up with troops, including taking up positions and southern, most of the state level, as well as the different sites. movie of us in the city,

the on personnel carrier is stationed along highway is on the approaches to us and most of the same time, the local officials. it said that this flight, the, to the cold count, if there was measures, will continue to be insights. so says the chairman of the russian senate's constitutional committee, the mayor of often things are no limits on entering or leaving the city as the situation is so peaceful on the streets. although the harvest british on using personal possible station and communication methods, all large scale, public events have been postponed. and there are several check points set up on the outskirts of most beautiful additional security checks, media, blogger design, and politicians have also been warned by authorities again, disclosing official information was made. it has a dual credit, monday and non working day and announce security services are on the highlights. amid the count of tara operation. in order to minimize risk,

we have decided to declare monday, a non working day, with the exception of authorities in essential services. the military, industrial complex city services, we ask you to refrain from traveling around the city as much as possible. traffic may be blocked in certain blocks and on certain roads. city services are operating on high alert. things are a little bit different as russian president vladimir put announced earlier, anti terrorism measures has been put into place here in moscow, but also in the greater moscow region. and we have reports of checkpoints that have been set up and also national security personnel that are on alerts. now these anti terrorism measures have also been stood up in a nother city. but on this, which is about part way between here in moscow and are also found on where wagner group fighters faced off against russian military earlier. now what exactly does

this mean? what. 2 these measures well the last time they were used was in 1991 during and attempted to by a communist party hardliners against then president mikhail gorbachev. and they're really, really rarely used. but um, exceptionally in this particular case, and what they mean is that checkpoints are set up that interception of communications, including email and telephone calls can occur. searches of bags or cars can occur at check points. people can also be asked to produce identification. so these measures are really exceptional, but um, for now, people are out and enjoying the weather and things don't seem to be too much different here in downtown laska. meanwhile, little asset as a search and sees as i saw, these are in the offices in st. petersburg,

they've been rated by law enforcement. so here is a full says in a, this is he has also been placed on high a lot of these say those reports from the see this morning in the city. we did a visit several of mister precautions, ad business premises, and we can confirm that several of them have now being rated and taken under control of the f s b and hear a bug is impressive at corporate h q a just on the outskirts of st. petersburg, a significant military and security operation is underway and we believe the premises have been seized and are being searched at the moment. of course in petersburg is a city of origin of, of uh you have danny pedagogy and this elusive, an interesting entrepreneur of qualified as a pharmacist initially. and then progressed in to various businesses which culminated in 2015, which is foundation of the wagner,

p. m. c. a private military contractor, which has grown into a very significant military force, of course, famous for its uh, at work and back much fast. so uh, in st. petersburg, the city is com. uh, there's a, there's a large student celebration on site which hasn't been canceled. people are getting on with their business, but there is a sense that at the kremlin, under government in moscow, particularly now that we've heard present, improved and set out, is still very clearly about the position in moscow. regarding mr. goshen and wagner, st. petersburg is quiet, but as we can see at the assets on the premises that belonged to mister per goshen . we can tell you that we have seen a f s b specialist and to those areas that says, present have held a phone call, was that an f? as in expressing his support, the russian need is also said to be in touch with the heads of neighboring states, including is based on income at this time to keep them updated on an event. however,

the russian form is read claims to us in other countries appeared to be watching wiggly. the rebellion plays into the hands of russia's external enemies. we warn western countries against any hints about the possible use of the internal russian situation to achieve the rest of all the goals. our country will continue its sovereign course to ensure its security, protect its values, strengthened its authority in the international arena, and form adjust multi polar world order. was to main see me that didn't take long to pick up the story with headlines. but could i take a look who i'm quoting, i'm verified information. i didn't feel the media fire royces for those who posted in the hospital. so i think a full swimming bog and i had taken control of the city of war. and is this flight button being denied by legion officials for now, west and politicians are said to be just monitoring the the, i'm for the events in russia with few giving any official reaction. press headlines

have been split chasing when the quote puts an arrow will be over when the he'll be overthrown. we spoke with joyce some of the of the global policies that you, he was the west. some past could try to exploit internal divisions in russia. when it comes to western intelligence among the small, the big isn't western intelligence, they know how to exploit divisions. and they know that the most effective way of explore these divisions in russian is to support the single russia nationalist. oh, these are the real people. they are real rush or natural. the real russian patry is . yeah, they don't really like boots in a so, you know, why don't we exploit the anger and the rage against the fulton. and essentially they will be doing out though, if you would, but you know, they'll,

they'll be able to bamboozled people by this or power. ensure patrick is we are the real pass. if you great attendance of the west, as i tell you, this is a great opportunity. why don't we try to exploit this? um, uh, for our own and that could backfire on them. i mean, you know, they, they could well miscalculate then the brain obviously has made a number of miscalculations. the counter offensive was 31 miscalculations. nato is notorious, were giving bad advice. so if they do budge ukrainians, hey, they take your chances. this could be 1917 all over again, complete russian collapse and german victory. they do what you need. i think that could let blow up in nato space. the russian people i think, don't want to go back to the 19 ninety's. and also, as far as the russian, people are concerned, they don't live military coups, it's never really been a russian tradition to have um, military crews. they want civilian control and above oh, you know,

whatever their frustrations about this includes the war and you grange fulton and it's still very popular and the referee people have a lot of trust inputs. and so any attend by um, pray goshen to take on the book into displace boots in will be rebuffed. i don't see that he would get any real following. and i think the conclusion will be as brutal in as violence as the the 1993. the storming of the parliament was us in the face of the arms and reads the russian authorities of buying the websites linked with the group saying they were inciting violence among those restricted our number of outlets belonging to the thing to media group and various communities, all social media, post of the so i'm still pub costs, but the i'm just as is still in college are spoke with mike calling for the score and gave his thoughts on the latest developments, a precaution that has always been working outside the system. you know,

we seen at the bottom of mood operation that he was already a voice in his discontent. oh, quite openly. and i think it's only a natural conclusion because at the, at the end of the day, p. m. c. wagner cannot exist outside. i said as a military force outside of the russian defense for long, i mean that's, that's not normal i use or they will be absorbed or they'll be disbanded. and apparently he doesn't like that prospect and he's making almost a desperate a bid, too. i don't think you will change, make up much of a difference. how could he expect anything else? and the fact is, it's not the way i would do it right. you, you don't, you don't go on august your intention to change to voice your, your different opinions with the russian establishment in russ cellphone down, which is 13 hours drive from moscow. right?

you do it when your tanks already moscow. you're sitting in kremlin as you announced the change in management. but now, 1st of all, we already know he doesn't have the support of the russian military because precautions 1st said his reason is because his troops happening shout by the russian military. okay, great. you don't have the support of the russian military. you have 25000 troops. that's great. do you have your support? no, i mean, what are you going to do with the armor columns on the open flattering of russia without air support? you're searching ducks and you're still searching the hours away from moscow. he is not in a good, very good position right now, given this present situation, that means the russians, i probably will not launch a major counter office if by the same time, the so called training office. if i so we have seen is, has to be a total of yeah. so they came out and they got demolished on those things. there isn't any shape or form to launch another one and you say, do as i say, you know,

yes, i don't, i don't think they will, can expect different result from the last time. you know, last time they came out with armor columns, white in the open space without air support was minimal artillery support and predictable where they got demolished, they said they'd do it again. you would just happened 2nd time. there is a presidency often results to historical comparisons. really, the end is a description of current events and in his address to give us a nation today. it is such a part of those with the, the 1917 revolution and the chaos that was created in rush reducing. that's a fact a lot, a comparison of the similar, similar issues with today's events. it's interesting, mr. putting made a reference to the 1917. the bolshevik revolution and the fact is pre goshen. what does he have? well, you know, he's not living in a t doesn't. he doesn't have a coherent etiology behind him. what he has his money, he's pain group of mercenaries who can straight from prison. they are under his

command because he's paying for the bills and the, you know, you can, or that you can't expect mercenaries to be loyal. they will not be loyal as long as they're getting paid. right. and they're, they're not going to be charging the kremlin for some edi alpha higher etiology. the illogical goes. so, you know, this, i, this is, it's, you know, it's often said history repeats, you know, uh 1st those tragic events as far as we're at the farce level right now. yeah. as i said, she's actually not in a great situation right now because right now is there's a open break between him and the russian government, and especially with mr. putting his speech, you know, on a certain no, no, i'll a certain terms. put an extra point out, this is a rebellion. this is against a russian state, and we will put a stop to that. and i don't, i just don't see what kind of support precaution would have, you know,

behind his little, little whatever, what he calls it. and, and he is right and obviously he claims to control ross stuff on the done great. what, what is going to do? is he going to venture out and send his armor calm to moscow where they can easily be slaughtered by the, by the russian air force? i mean, the search is his trapped is trapped. the. so there's lots of interesting stories here on odyssey, comedy, so we'll start those out and we'll be back at the top of them. the we've told you in the past about the u. s. department of veterans affairs, it's an enormous sprawling bureaucracy and is one of the most poorly run departments in the entire us government investigators. they're deal on a daily basis with things like fraud, investment, drug crimes and other white color issues. but imagine going to work one day and

learning that you're not needed to investigate these routine white color crimes. instead, you're needed to investigate a serial killer. and even worse, a medical serial killer assessed you a passive works under color of helping patients as a medical professional, a doctor or a nurse. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 our next guest is that rare person who has seen the darkest part of the underbelly of society. ru sacrament is a renowned investigator specializing and tracking down medical serial killers and is in demand as a consultant on the subject all over the world. he's a former special agent in charge of the ne field office of the criminal investigations division in the us department of veterans affairs office of the inspector general, where he was responsible for criminal investigations in 295 veterans affairs

facilities. he's a licensed private investigator and is the president of the society of professional investigators. in addition to his professional credentials. he's the co author of the highly acclaimed book behind the murder curtain, special agent, bruce sacrament, hans doctors and nurses who kill our veterans, bruce sacrament. welcome to the show. we are so happy to have you. so thank you very much. i'm actually honored to be here today, while the pleasure is online. i've been looking forward to this for a long time. i have to tell you this conversation is, is going to be fascinating for me personally. there are probably fewer than a dozen people in the united states who have had a career focused on serial killers and even fewer who have focused on medical serial killers. before we get to that specialization, tell us a little bit about your career and about how you got started in investigations.

sure, well, um, i saw the investigation probably by watching too many colombo shows. you know, um, not seen a big, tough, dirty harry kind of guide, but i used to watch columbia and i so you know, i could do that. this guy is more brains and brawn and i really like that. so i started out as an investigator with the u. s. department of defense and i was investigating contract for oil and procurement for a line. and it was pretty interesting. and then jimmy carter way back when began offices of inspector general's in every federal agency. so every page of federal agency that time and now just about every agency has an office of inspector general and most offices of inspector general, all kind of torn to different directions. one is in the office of what it and one

is an office of criminal investigations. i was responsible for the office of the criminal investigations for the ne united states. and i had a tremendous smorgasbord if you will have cases to pick and choose from. because hospitals well hospitalized big cities and any kind of crime that could occur in a big city could almost kind of happened in the hospital. you know, we had procurement for or contract for what we had drug diversion. think of all the narcotics that are in the hospital. i mean we have the most complex scientific equipment to inexpensive items like diapers and everything in between. and we have with very, very concerned about medical records about the security and medical records. so running the hospital is a very, very complex job, and unfortunately the as a big opportunity for some criminal activity. now what the v a,

i must preface my remarks by saying that the old to well bring majority of the am for the most honest hard working, dedicated compassion of people you ever want to meet? absolutely, yes, no, that being said, there is a very, very tiny percentage of people that will take advantage of the system. and unfortunately the victims on nations heroes and that's really terrible. so i was really on a, in 2 respects. i was on it to be in federal law enforcement. and i was honored to have a position that looked out for veterans that actually helped us secure safety and security and the best health possible for our nation's heroes. it was a wonderful, wonderful position to be. and you had

a long career at the department of veterans affairs. tell us about the case that made you an expert on medical serial killers. i have to assume that somebody doesn't just wake up one day and decide to start killing people. they operate on detected sometimes for many years and we're talking about doctors and nurses here. how did this all begin in that big case? well, you know, i'm working all these other cases that i just described. and all in one day my phone rings, and i get a call from the chief of psychiatry at the northwood long island v. a medical center. and she says, bruce, oh, you're not gonna believe this. but we have a doctor working here who spent time in prison, to poisoning these co workers. and i'm looking at the phone and i'm from looking at my calendar. it says this april 1st is this like some kind of april fools,

a joke or something. you know, and she says, no, bruce, this is really true. now what? i didn't think in the united states of america, you could spend time in prison for poisoning people and come out and be a physician. so i was wrong and natural, it started the story of a dr. michael swain. know the michael swindle killed people, not only united states. he told people with the world. do you know when he was in medical school, john, when he was in medical school, he was known as double swine. go license to kill all my gosh. fellow students in medical school and the dean and they said, you know, the, we don't think these guys wine bill should really be a physician. and the dean said, what do you know your only students on the dean. i think he could be a doctor, but i think he needs more training. so let's keep him for about 6 months longer. right. and the next thing, you know,

he was up in ohio state university and he's killing people. and he winds up being in m e n t, and he actually toys him, his co workers invited his co workers and he said, hey guys, you know, you worked so hard at some donuts in the donuts and they all got sick that night. and he calls them up, he says, tell me, will you symptoms tell me everything that happens. he's revealing the excitement of poisoning people, not only when he actually put the boys in on these donuts, but healing how they suffered me. and it turns out that the donuts were actually sprinkled with loss, and they called me say it easy and these are not stupid. about 2 weeks later it comes in with some ice tea and they have the ice t test it. and it's loaded with awesome that wow, and the police didn't fantastic job and he gets 3 years in jail for boys and his co . ready workers and then he comes out and he's a doctor again. it to be

a lot. it seems impossible. how can anybody pass a government background investigation and have your license? yeah. and have your license reinstated? yes. well i'll tell you this, this guy. it's an incredible sociopath, you know, he was, he wasn't ex marine and he got out of prison. and he gave the store, he says, you know, i'm an ex marine, i got to find. i got an a bottle in the roll. but here's a piece of paper from the governor, restoring my civil rights. nobody checked it, nobody verified it. and the next thing, you know, the guy is a doctor again, this time out in the west coast. and it'd be a facility and he's doing well. he's actually engaged to be a nurse. and then the story comes out and uh, everything turns terrible for him and his fiance and his fiance, her name was kristen kenny does a beautiful,

beautiful young lady. and she goes home to mom and she says, you know, mom, i really love this guy. swining go, but i can't live with them anymore after i heard what happened. you know, but when i was living with them i was getting all these headaches for some reason. headaches. but i, i feel better now and the next thing you now swipe shows up at the door and he's so charming the charms is way back into hawaii. about 2 months later, she can't take it anymore again and she goes to the park. she takes out a gun and she blows her brains out on like can i go for that? can you will actually you can because even though she shot her cell and the family had the body cremated, they kept a lock of hair. and her hair was loaded with austin. you know, 9 go was even poisoning is on fiance. low to make a long story short,

he actually lot winds up in my neighborhood at the northwood long island, b a medical center and you know, something interesting. he was there on a residency any guess what, what particular medical field in psychiatry that he had to go in front of a board of trying psychiatry. and can you this each and every one of them that he should be in the program. and he grad, incredible. and then that's when i got that phone call and i sort of each i lived so, and i happened because one of my agents and i go down to visit him. now let me tell you this guy look like a movie. saw just got off the call cause weird is eva saw sunglasses you know, cells in john, if i didn't know better, i want to introduce them to my own daughter. yeah. right. these are the next marine got there. right. you know, 29 nations heroes. i'd say come.