the news on see on see what will make a long story short, he actually lot winds up in my neighborhood at the north for the long island. be a medical center and you know something interesting. he was there on a residency any guess what? what particular medical field in psychiatry that he had to go in front of a board of trying psychiatry and can it is each and every one of them that he should be in the program. and he grad, incredible. and then that's when i got that phone call that sort of each i lived so, and i happened to call with one of my agents and i go down to visit him. now let me tell you, this guy looked like a movie saw just got off the golf course. we're on these ada saw sunglasses, you know, cells in john, if i didn't know better, i want to introduce them to my own daughter. yeah. right. these are the next marine doctor, right. you know, spending on nation zeros, i'd say come on,

the i says when i go join the family. wow. if i didn't know very well. so he's given me the same barring draws story and role. and then when i started challenging him, he's not so charming. you know, so want to talk in the next thing. you know, he leaves the country where he's the country, a goose to zimbabwe, africa when he's in play africa. because it's such a shortage of physicians. there, he's killing women and children and pregnant women, my god. and they have an arrest warrant say him, but he returns the united states because he had to renew his passport. this boy went on you to another country and we arrested him, but not to murder. because we didn't have any evidence that he murdered anybody at all. here we were send him, but every federal ages, they re crime line to the government. he said lie or it's of the government. if you

want to a federal agent, you're guilty of a felony. that's right and 3 years in jail full line to the government. so that gave us a window of opportunity, a window of 3 years to trying to prove that he murdered any of our nation's heroes at the north port va medical center. and that's what started me on, on that particular journey. let me ask you to why is it so difficult to think for medical professionals to be able to spot a colleague who, who can kill in a hospital environment. medical professionals, of course, are supposed to 1st do no harm, is it, is that it, that they're supposed to be hillers, and not killers. so people generally don't suspect their colleagues of these terrible crimes. it will look if you are so inclined to commit a number is what perfection and what location might you choose? right? tape?

you might choose a profession that kind of gives you the legal power of life and this over an individual what professions do we know? how that, you know, you, you might want to take a profession where people take, you know, have dedicated themselves to saving lives. so who is going to believe that in this wonderful universe of compassionate people who have dedicated themselves to saving lives, there's going to be someone hiding in that group that's actually taking lives. it's almost impossible to believe. i mean, all your coworkers have dedicated themselves to saving people. you see, miracles performed almost every day in the hospital and to believe that somebody is intentionally murdering people. is very, very difficult. you know, it's very difficult for the fireman to believe that one of his co workers is actually starting fine. that's right, right. it's the same thing here. it's

a universe of such dedicated professional people that no one wants to bully. now one of their co workers would be intentionally taking lots and i couldn't understand that. i could see we are speaking with an investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his investigations, into medical serial killers. we have to take a short break, but you're not going to want to miss the 2nd half of this conversation. stay tuned . we'll be right back. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the, [000:00:00;00]

the tab to the establishment of the boxes resuming lisbon in 1933. the position of the indigenous population in the portuguese colonies deteriorated dramatically. especially in angola. decatur, antonio de, i live at salazar, encouraged colonizing the angolan lands by europeans and sought after turning the country into a portuguese province, where the and goldens would be 2nd class people. in 1961, there was an outbreak of violence on the part of the portuguese, in revenge for the plantation workers, dry portuguese aircraft bomb. the villages in northern angola and race rides took place in african parts of lawanda. the people of angelo rose in an armed rebellion . the roots atlas of the colonialists knew no about. despite the un calls to stop the violence,

the board to gaze only intensified their terror against the rebels. the 40s actively used the political contradictions between various groups of rambles during the war colonial aircraft regularly use, ne fall, and drop the fully ends on peaceful villages. the portuguese empire was severely exhausted by the struggle against the national liberation. movements of revolution in portugal brought down the plaza stream and put it in to the murder as war against the people of angola. on january 15th 1975, the elbow or agreements were assigned in the country, gained independence after so many years of the brutal war,

the the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we are speaking with renowned investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his work tracking down medical serial killers, those medical professionals who become self murderers. welcome back again, bruce. glad to have you. thank you, bruce to tell us a little bit about motivation, the average serial killer, when, when one thinks about john wayne gacy or gary allan ridge way or dentist reader is a sociopath or a psychopath. who becomes more and more bold, often even taunting the police. but that's not the case with medical serial killers . is it tell us about their motivation? what leads them to do it? you know, i'll tell you what i've seen over the years. um, not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but this is when i've witness. i would say the number one,

the number one reason that i've seen is something called munchausen syndrome by proxy right now, much as an central and black proxy is, is often displayed when a mother will maybe intentionally harm a child and bring that child into the hospital show the staff what a caring, dedicated, outstanding parent they are and is trying to be so compassionate, please help my child and they want the staff to give them understanding and compassion. well in some strange way. this is the same thing with medical sale kills. we just think about medical serial killers. when you look at their evaluations, like ok, nurses, okay. doctors. except when it comes to code and a cold, i mean an emergency, a cold blue. and when you read the evaluations, you will see that big in an outstanding when it comes to code one of my medical

serial killers. kristin gilbert, the doctors would say, you know, if i ever cody, i would one kristin gilbert. there she starts barking, or is it the young been trying to get out of her mind? she case control. she's a hero. she's outstanding. why? this is one of these people want because to well feel like they will kind of put aside and they need get the attention that they. ready want to do when they're who can sit, there was considered more zeros and heroes. now, son and this is an opportunity for them to get the attention that they never had before. and now they don't care about the root of the victims is just an end to the means. they care about the attention that comes to them and that i've seen throughout the world is perhaps the number one reason. it's not exclusively, some people likes wind. oh, i just loved the power of life and death. nasa your power and then over the summer

. what incredible high for him. you know, why didn't incredible turn on that he could act like on that he had the power of life and gas and, and that's also calm, but there are a few other reasons. sometimes is a case ongoing in texas. now, we're a doctor is just pissed off at management and his co workers and he says, you know, i'm the best doctor here. he can even compare it to me and you know what they did to me. they took away some of my privileges, they reduced my office, they cut my money back out, show them how fill them when patients start going unexpectedly didn't know we always have a point value and they will come back to me. my god. oh yeah. are you pretty sure that those are some of the most common reasons that i've seen throughout the world matheson be able to welcome 2 or 3 years ago i entertain the idea of writing

a book about serial killers. i. i've written 8 non non fiction books. i thought it would be kind of a fun departure and i especially wanted to talk about their motivation and what made them so bold before they were finally caught. so i wrote letters to 8 or 9 serial killers who were in prison, including some of the most famous names, many of them, including gary alan ridgeway the green river killer, the b t k killer son of sam tex watson from the manson family. they actually answered me, but their answers were all the same. they said they found jesus in prison, jesus had forgiven them. jesus was, was saving their lives, they were living their lives for jesus, etc, etc. ridgeway even sent me. it was a big package. it had 50 religious pamphlets in it, and he asked me to distribute these pamphlets around my neighborhood. so of course i true, i threw them away. but my image, your conclusion was that,

that there manipulative behavior continues in prison all these years later that, that this manipulative personality is what keeps them going. they think it's going to get them something to, at least profess to be christian, for example. so my question is, is that also common among the serial killers once they've been caught? and if it is, how are they able to, to cover it up for so long as they build their medical careers as well, i guess it sort of a 2 part question. the 1st part about being uh once, once they are incarcerated. well, many of them will decline to speak because there are additional murders out there. god. right. and they tried and convicted and even received the death penalty depending on where it occurred. so they're not going to do anything

else, right? because when we suspect these medical serial killers of killing 36, the a 100 people often we don't have the proof on hand that they killed that many people die. you know, we have narrow it down to the very, very best cases that there are and pursue those cases. but they know they know there are other victims out there and we should be able to approve it and not have them, especially with some of the that they gave us. they can be retry, prosecuted and possibly even executed. so they're not going to say anything at all about that. all right, and you know it's something interesting because when the whistle blow was in the case of chris and gilbert, this is a real example of whistle blowers fan, had floyd backgrounds and you know, some of them had a substance abuse problems. they had other personal problems,

and they knew this was gonna all come out. but they had incredible coverage to come for us and tell us what had happened. well, what do you think happened after the trial? so quiz thing, gilbert, who were your legs killed about 30 or by nations heroes at the north, hampton b medical center in massachusetts. uh, she goes to trial and she's found guilty. and the whistle blowers were just tremendous. we wouldn't have known of that as a living for themselves. so when they return to work, do you think that the agree it is he will say, oh no. just the opposite. uh, just the opposite because you'd say what the hell do you do the us now when people drive by the hospital, they don't say call this the hospital, let's say if my dad, that's the hospital. it does wonderful science. no pc, that's the hospital with the medical serial killer work. now why did you have to do that? you room for all of us?

you room the reputation not. thank you for getting rid of the murder that they never, ever. all they heard was criticism from the co workers. why did you call these fact the general? why did you believe bring the police in here? why did you bring little of his bad publicity to us while genetically the triple? bruce, tell us where people can learn more about the work that you do and about your book . a sure, well the website is same as the name of the work behind the myrtle car dot com. it details all the stories of medical serial killers inside the v a that i personally investigated, including doctors, wine, go and kristin gilbert and others, including a, a physician in albany that old in medical records to put the veterans into research studies. they should have never been ended and they were murdered. i mean,

they're really some incredible stories in that book. and also, you know, there's a, there's a television show out there. cool. um, what's it called very scary people. yes, thank you very scary. p h o n, and it has 2 levels. honest, wind go yes, but i like to find people to um, to read the book, to go to the website, to email me. i get emails all the time from veterans and non veterans and people who have been victimized by this. and, you know, and so one thing we have to mention here is a whole human side to this john, you know, we talk about the statistics in the message, but these are human games we're talking about. but for the family isn't sewage power show. so could you imagine, do i mean if i, if i rang your doorbell one day and i said, excuse me, sir, you know, my name is bruce saffron. and i'm from new v a. and we have reason to believe that your father's death was of

a suspicious nature. can i go to the cemetery and dw nadia runs? yes. and could you imagine your visit like that? could you imagine sitting in a court room and hearing all this evidence of how your father was murdered at a v, a hospital after he spent his entire life? yeah, save america, reads right military to the movies of the hassle. imagine the human side is, is how you would feel. and sometimes when we talk about this to sticks, how many memories and the techniques and all that we forget to mention the human side of the families and the families are always being just amazing for me. just fantastic people. fantastic. well, thank you so much for spending this time with us. this was fascinating and we were very happy to have you. so i wanna thank bruce for joining us and for sharing his fascinating experiences. and thanks to our viewers for watching the author, bret easton, ellis, one said, quote,

it strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not a bad and cool place and quote, in many cases, i'm sorry to say that's true, but we're fortunate to have people like bruce hackman out there doing the right thing. i'm john kerry echo, thanks for watching the whistle blowers until next time. 2 2 2 2 the, the cutting situation that defined, although i think it's a great political opportunity to call for goods, for the 1st time to articulate. it was to say, listen, we have a multi, a whole lot of relationships with all the powers of the, of the world. and what would dictate relationships between african countries and those black ones?

he's the national interest and i would see that happening at the moment. the a rolling of the a sober tv audio, no credit union dirty a showing if i did she ship a duck lean i'd ship for the control room for 2 of us. so we fixed you get them awarded by the system really being you have enough, the lots and lots of products and that's going to see mean yeah, we did the boom cloud. so it's actually, it's strange of talk through this, but i'll let you draw both on it. okay. excuse me, that's what they're used to most of the my software, but just don't use it on satellite if she ever always gives us whatever the shipping of that just a good fit you immediately, of course,

to take him over to them. i need deals says that you print school, so that's for and use a when they finished that for a couple years, you know, to buy these folks, go directly to the shop. these products here, nestle take a picture of the day so that i'm not the, the looks of so is of this. i'll leave the wagner midfield advisor generally to attempted the mutant in russia holtzman box of his forces on the field, consented additional de escalation,

measured by his off a deal to end. the rebellion was broken by the, by the russians. president, tools and tools with. i'm going to achieve you getting the because in, throughout the day also this out, a publisher's, i appeal to a russian or the military and security agencies. and those have been pushed into the cost of ogden search and see by the seats and threats. this is an attack on russia, on our people, and our actions to protect the homeland from such as threats will be top line event . but to address the nation bryley, i'm everybody. i'm a type on russian. i'm is the book value in the country will defend itself increased on the piece of gold laid between the president of brothers. i'm the father and the head. i've seen several measures are still in place in most of the world las go to the world,

and this is all the good to have your company today. my name's lots of money. you start with the nicest breaking news from russia. wagner meant fuel. the last agent has just left the south western rush of the city of real stuff on dawn and has headed back to his field caps according to the regions governor of the head of the private men. she loop agreed, and his attempt is made to be involved in a fight as myers to seize at the headquarters of one of the local magic districts. the money in meeting with missy ross, his habits had explained his decision to back them. they wanted to just spend pmc bulk. now we went to the march of justice on june. the 23rd. and today we got within just 200 kilometers. must go during this time, we've not shed a single drop of blood from all fine, just now we've approached the moment when blood can be shed, realizing the full responsibility for the fact that russian blood will be set to

one side. we turn our columns around and go in the opposite direction to the field camps, according to the plan. we are standing right next to the military headquarters here in a row, so that was blocked for the entire day. the streets here are still closed. however, the soldiers, i'll be a wagon group, i'm out collecting their belongings, are now getting prepared. but certainly you can still. you can see that there are a lot of 5 civilians here on the streets taking pictures. we can see that the wagner group has turns on their equipment and they're getting ready to see you. i've seen them collecting their ammunition. the whole thing to david arrive here was and it looks like the situation has now completely de escalated 5. so what we'll see, of course, uh, what's happening in the morning and that will talk to the people here and engage

their opinion about what happens. vermont calls are of artsy and rust almonza. and in this but there's, you can see the movement dissolved, the she's gonna suff, leaves the headquarters of the movie district, which hadn't been earned. a caption by his group hasn't given it because it is now said to be heading to better. it's now as the pro russian presence press, of a sudden miss had succeeded in brokering the peace deal the negotiations were held throughout the day. we came to an agreement on the end admissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre on the territory of russia. the head of the wagner pmc accepted the proposal of the president of valerie, was to stop the movement of armed wagner personnel on the territory of russia and to take further steps to de escalate attention. a note on this morning the russian president informed his belly russian contra part about the situation in the south. a freshman, the leaders agreed on joint actions, book a single made a number of clarifications and having agreed with president put in agreed on talks

with the head of the wagner, p. m. c. they've got a pretty goes, you know, they go, sions worth help throughout the day. as a result, we go to the next step of the proposal on the admissibility of blood actions and the chairs are of russia. the board is also agreed on a complete the escalation of the situation. they have come to an absolutely when we deal with spelled out security guarantees for all participants of the parent, males are a group also develop russian. president personnel talks with the secure education on the same issue. moscow has signed to the by the russian president for his mediation efforts with the crowd misspoke swim outlining more details of the do me pretty nice. grateful to the bell. russian president, location, courier. so his efforts, she's known, the pmc bogged down for 20 years, and it was the president's personal initiative. but i managed to resolve the situation without further loss is an escalation. as a result in the agreement was recently pmc will return to the field caps. some of

the finances will sign contracts for the russian defense ministry, the new they've changed their minds and off the ministry to come back us with the others. no one will persecute them, we've always respected that her rubbing deeds. as for the wagner hate any progression, the criminal case has been terminated, then he himself, which will lead to better bruce the evening conversation. that freaks disagreement was boom and constructed full amount of time to go on said codes. yeah. otherwise i'm a live believe they wouldn't know grounds for the mentioning to have been successful . and he doesn't have the back. you know, the russian people, the, and the, all of the supplies come from the russian military. so i think he was uh, using it as a bargaining chip. he was just trying to make a point progress, pretty gods. and that is what i think he's basically burned his bridge, his personal bridge with, with the leadership and the, and i think there will be some repercussions, but not against the, to the troops themselves. because they are, they have distinguished themselves as

a very capable fighters and they, they've done things frankly, that the russian military could not a cheap and, and, and, and very critical areas in, in ukraine and in other areas a, they, they've been in the vanguard into africa, so they, they've been an asset of, uh, primarily to, to the, to the russian government over time. the united states will do anything that creates a opposition to the government itself. just as i said, they are going to be looking to i think maybe they were hoping to get more us was hoping to see more support for the wagner group by the general population as well as the russian military. i don't see that happening and, and, and, and at the same time, we're seeing an effort to buy certain people here on the,

on the west to encourage ukraine now to start taking advantage of this. so, but i think it's going to be short lived. i in, in my opinion because i just don't see any ground swell for the, for support. uh, for this action ultimately to in fact uh, have a cool against russia as an address to the nation. and president puts in. viola is guilty of treason will be severely punished. he rounded the volume in between the sub in the bottom kind of sweat to rush in the state that i'm gonna share. he's gonna, i'm addressing oldest citizens of russia. so the armed forces lawrence pulse with agencies and special services, the fight is in commodities and now in that back to positions that are fighting against enemy a time for the doing this heroically. the last night i spoke to the commodities in

old areas as my i'm also addressing those who have been deceived onto the part of the grave crime and on the rebellious. today, a brochure is fighting for its future. go fighting against aggression from neo nazis, and that most is against us is probably the military with inflammation and economic power of the west with fighting for the life and security of all people across sovereignty and independence for right to be. i agree with you to remain in russia, a country with a 100 year old history. yeah. what you, it's about. so with the sites of all nation is being decided, much of a clause as old to be united with unity is a consolidation and responsibility. and everything that makes us weak our must be put aside to what i see. any differences that may be used in all used by all enemies, to disrupts us from within the shades of the actions that splits all unity um, basically renegade options against those fights. and at the front of the city, that's the, it's

a stop in the box against our country and all nation phillips. and this stop was dealt to russia in 1917 while the country was fighting in wealth. but one went through. its victory was stolen from it. so what would that, what intrigues and bickering behind the nations box turned it into a great catastrophe? and actually getting used to it led to the destruction of the army and the collapse of the states. but it was the loss of the boss territories and the tragedy of the civil war. it was that when russians went against russian election, when i'm brother, once against brother, even though in various adventurous and foreign forces, profiting most of them and told the country at part look beautiful. we will not let that happen again. we will defend our country on all sides hoods from any threads, including internal treason availability. what we are facing now is the reason you meet your big ambitions and personal interests have led to the betrayal of one's country. one's nation. and the cost of which box is fights has and commodities were fighting along with the armed forces the towns and villages of don't boss where

they, for a gave their lives for the new russia, the,