max is that a now that they're being re looked at because they actually did more damage? people came out more worst than when they came in. i see where you're going here though, and i'm just doing the math in my head. obviously. if it costs $46000.00 minimum to keep a person in prison in california. if you had from the very beginning. and i know this is crazy because it's a lot to give them, but given them the $46000.00 and created a job opportunity for them. i don't know thing is the money, but given them the best probably would not have become gang members or maybe i wouldn't become, i guess i'm, i'm hoping you know a yeah. what we used to say. and this came out of the 92 uprising los angeles when blood encrypts were actually you're not even with mexicans. so people don't know that probably they only know about the violent. they don't know that people are trying to get together and they had a statement, give us the hammers and the nails, and we were, we built our communities that somebody's

a powerful statement that nobody took them up on it. nobody gave what, okay. can we bought our roads? can we build new housing and the better schools give us the skills and i'll tell you, it wasn't me. i wasn't game. remember, i would get a book. always do any best selling book here. again, a book called calls you back about what i went through. my own son was an a gang of chicago. it's been almost 15 years in prison. there were both doing good right now . we're helping others. we change people's lives. and i've been doing this for many years and i remember in the early seventies when we were getting hard core gang members because you either got told me that these kids and missed their team. they're hard core. but i've been hard core people, but only i, i've got to say we can change their mind at least a good. you're going to think less of me for saying this, and i apologize if you do. but i have to say it because i think it's something everybody else would think when they watch this. i'm looking at new lease. i don't see gang member. i don't see past. can remember. you have like a decent guy. somebody is dad. maybe somebody is grand dad. when i look at these guys with those tattoos on their faces. yeah, well, i kind of see when i was 16,

you would have seen the same to i don't have typed using my faces, but all of those tattoos came okay. let's just go back to that you kind of which i know by true cause we're round it up in the thirties and forties people forget about that. they were rounded up and put in special and she kind of tax these. we have to kind of taken the county jail mexican american means mexican american. yeah . now in los angeles, actually. yeah. and they were rounded up and by the 50s they created the 1st and largest prison gangs that became quite active in criminal activity. they became bigger that all that things that people couldn't imagine, they put them in send quitting that, that well, we're going to tied them inside quitting, and they actually became stronger the creative shoes. and the action became stronger than other prison games, other racial minorities who but it was great and present gangs, it got worse and worse and the subject dorians, lot of mazda, others that came as migrant me during the war's ended up in those vials,

they members, 13 been starting, no salvador is started and i make an 18th street or is that you kind of game for 20 some years before the doors and others got into 18 street and the ones were just continuing that against a cycle and it gets worse and worse and i and are you go in and go to kind of funny, they're all got tattoos in their faces. it's worse and use in central more. do you see it all the time? but i, i work in the prison system for 40 years. i go and move them, that they're out there. what have we done? yeah, make these what? you know, what i'm saying? even when i wasn't again, things are bad. we had done. people drive by. i lost 25 friends by the time i was 18 in the sixties and early seventies and things have gotten worse. and i think has to do with being tough on crime, putting people way to shoot with nice people not providing rehabilitation, not providing real resources and i give them the average and they. busy as a metaphor and rebuild their communities. this is why i think things have gotten back well, and you mentioned that vicious cycle i want to address that up. but let's do this.

we're, we're going to take a break. but when, when we come back, i want to address that vicious cycle because that gets us into a conversation about our own foreign policy, which is perhaps the genesis of much of this we're talking with luis, have you had rodriguez really firsthand knowledge about this gang situation? that we're talking about, you stay there by the way, i have a pod cast where i as a journalist as a lot, you know, as an entrepreneur, i tell my story and i share with you what i've learned how to succeed, how to grow, how to fail it's called the rick sanchez podcast. i invite you to check it out and i will see you there. but when we come back, let's go to that point. how is it that getting members in america who now end up going back when they're deported to their country, who end up recruiting new gang members? how that actually started in the fifty's and sixty's and seventy's and some and

eighty's with our. busy our foreign policy in those countries, countries in latin america, i'll take you through it today, right? there will be right back the the, the kind of situation to find all the tools. i think it's a great political opportunity to offer kids for the 1st time thought duplex to the world to say listen, we have a multi, a whole lot of relationships with all the powers of the, of the world. and what to dictate relationships between african countries and those black ones. he's the national interest and i would see that happening at the moment the,

the russian states. never as one of the most sense community best to him. then i'll send, send up the send, the 6595 and speed. the one else calls question about this. even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say a request, which is the

look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. and the point obviously is to create a truck rather than to the various jobs. i mean with the artificial intelligence, we have somebody in the robot must protect this phone. existence is alexis the welcome back. i'm rick sanchez. you know,

one of the most amazing angles to this story is that the same immigrants who arrive the name added states as children that are now recruiting and training other children in places like el salvador and others to become gang members. just just like them. and think about it that those children emigrate to the us are jailed here, deported that set back to their countries where they recruit the other children. talk about a vicious cycle right? talking to us once again is luis rodriguez rece, javier rodriguez, who can speak to this from, from real experience, from a life. well, lived through some hardship. um, what do you make of that? i mean, i mentioned earlier, you know what we did in guatemala? i wish we hadn't done it, but you know, foreign policy is a funny thing and you could always go through history and find mistakes. but while you know our intervention during the reagan years in el salvador, in nicaragua, in honduras countries that we sort of destabilized you can,

i'm not gonna argue politics here. so i'm would say we needed to do what some would say we didn't, but whatever, whatever, whatever it is, the reason we did it, it had a blow back. and that blow back was we ended up with young boys here who had no fathers who came from those disastrous situations and then they became delinquents, and from delinquents, they kind of grow into hardened criminals. how does that happen as well? they may have to do some more with his body now, but then they end up in another words on the inner cities of america, which has, she kind of gangs has religion. cripps has a gang side of chicago wherever they landed, but and, but let's say just like they got very close to that you kind of body or say, living in bottles of what you guys have been to 4234 generations now. and not that you guys are getting married with the gang members of harden and they've been a long time they became integrated in those gangs. here's what happens though, and 92, there's a piece of gorge, find the law solver doing. but in the us, under

a democratic present because there's, i think there's a democratic republic and problem. it's a problem for both of them. besides to support them. these are kids that were raised here. their tattoos came from here. i wasn't also, i've during the eighty's, they didn't have to have dues, then have that kind of getting back together. there's, there's the people that were crim, but nothing like us. we put in a whole culture from ally streets down there with nothing, no skills and nothing short. they didn't even know. i went on what i, what i was a journalist when i was a corresponded and see and, and i was once assigned to cover that and i took it upon myself. i called the, the folks with immigration who do this kind of thing. and i said, i want to be on the plane, i want to go and they said ok, you can go your journal. and so they took me on the plane. i was, i was able to find out many of the people who were on those planes and being sent back to these countries. i went with them to, uh, uh, to uh, i believe it was. busy was under as um, there was a god, but uh, i remember they didn't speak spanish and when they let them go for the plane,

they went there and they said they were americans and they were, they were, how did they look badly but didn't come get it together it began to become cool. he so and because the countries a salt port, all these countries are talking about under is quite a model. so because they're so poor that they had a world that they can work in and, and even not all of them, but they comply the criminal knowledge i got from california prison. and that's where you see the expensive old bit. i was there in 93. i was talking to these guys are barely putting the attack to face things by and by the time i came back in 20, in the early 22000, they were all now they were cohesive. now they recorded new kids that were lost for kids that know where to go. they use deputies, allie, guys, these guys were tough and tattooed, and they will be looked up to him because these kids were all alienated, didn't know what to do, where to go. and then to begin to recruit large numbers, the viewport patient that we did impacted these countries without sending these

kids properly. so before careful. yeah, and i get it because then they went there and then they recruit others who aren't in the gang live, but they teach them the gang live, they get hardened, sometimes they get deported or they may immigrate to the united states cuz they have clean records. nobody knows who they are. yeah. yeah, they come here and, and they get arrested and it, it just continues is worse and worse. and then they get important again, you know, so we created and i was talking about the us policy here. okay. we got, we understand salvador has up the hand and it, everybody's got ahead and it's breaking down our families poverty. but our policies have contributed to all these to the violence. and then i was there when we were trying to change that in the us government stain as you can negotiate with gangs, you can ok can do nothing. stephen. but rudy got juliani to our solver doing what a model of what he said, put them on a way what color is doing is truly honest. i'm not prepared to go. this is julia

kimball. they paid him millions of dollars when i was going know something, i prayed myself, nobody gave me money. but he did pay the moods and dogs to come in there and said, just put them on a wait and book and what color is doing exactly what this is. this is a policy that we tend to show in this country too often where we just don't want to talk to people we'd rather for some reason, we'd rather have enemies then develop ways to get along. you know, whether it's the china policy, the way we treat russia, the wars we get into in the middle east. i mean, we can go down the list of things that we have in here at our own country. the way we often use the fist rather than the open hand, now i get it to, there's times when you need to use the 1st one when someone's a piece of you know what? you need to put them away and, and they really are bad. but if you make that decision too early you, you, you create the possibility that you're making the problem worse and that, and i think i get, although there's a part of me that i have to ask you this. my my father passed away last year and i

still been some of this day. but i remember he always told me, he said son, i grew up rough. i only have a 4th rate education. i was shining shoes for a living in my country in cuba, and i had p bad guys all around me all the time. i saw a guy smoking marijuana and doing drugs and stuff, but i never did drugs that ever smoked marijuana. and i always, why is my dad could have figured that out get these other people figured out what, what is, what's the more of getting life that gets to these kids? and why couldn't figure out a way to avoid this? isn't this just make clear that most of of billions in the us and, and then also have a door, a good job by the hard course of course. yeah, we're going to, we're not to talk here, but yeah, and so we're talking about it and they raise their kids even with no money for they raise the kids the best it can were talking about kids are sort through the cracks . what can we do to stuff those cracks because i thought to get back to my from none of my brother's suitcases, grab the gang,

my mother and father word card. why do i have parts of the crack? you know, and i've written books about it, why some guy like me would do that. and then also how some guy like we could get out of it. you know, you mentioned how i look pretty good up to you. funny story. i went to president, north carolina, 210 all black. i walked there because they said, hey, this guy was a former game memory that, oh, this book. they looked at me, i walked into the app that me can. i looked at the janitor or their uncle steve and said it was my uncle, whatever they were laughing at me, but i came in there or walked in there to they didn't think i was a hey, we do it again. but once i went through, i walked up to start telling my story. i talked to him with a winter, so green by 40. they would stop in and listen. and by the time i got through, they gave me a standing ovation, was the youngest people can change. i look this way now because i've changed for many years. my son did 15 using pregnancy and looks like a real positive young man. he wasn't that way when he forgot it to present. people do change and even looked at, i work with a guy that, that 30 years and printed from where he was

a shot kind of one of the big gangs here in that lake. now he's going into the juvenile house and up and get the game permission because he's teaching a biology and drawn me. he's changed their lives. i know it can happen. and that's what i, that's my story. we need to do more that just kind of in monday night and no support . there's just not enough. but when we do it, it works. why don't we do it? i mean, is there d, i, we mentioned this earlier and i'm not sure i got a proper response for it. but the, the, the, the tickets greed the think about when people make too much money on prisons to us for us to do any other way. and going back to even though so i wonder how much money would take to keep somebody in prison. there's a whole industry here out of when you're creating a huge and shadowy st. just got a fornia know all the stage, but california led most of the big, huge giant mass incarceration system. and now we're doing california. now we're trying to change that. we're trying to reflect the present. we're trying to get people out of that. we're trying to give,

we're trying to help. i'm not saying it's going perfect, but we're trying to do something. lease how we're rodriguez. uh, thanks so much for taking the time to take us through this very personal experience and this part of the story. thank you. once again in my honor, thank you for we go, i want to remind you that why we do interviews like this when we think they're different. we have a mission. that's really pretty simple. we want to de silo the world. i mean, we've got, and we've got to stop thinking in terms of this, that little box is, you know, you've got to be on the right of the left to the side of that side. truths. don't live in boxes, troops live everywhere, right. how much sanchez, are we looking for you right here for i help to provide a direct impact the the, the

willing at the so be to the, to the and no credit union. dorian show any idea she shit, a duck lean. i support the control room for 2 of us, so we fixed you get the move onto the system. really? mean you have enough people not to say websites and stuff. i'm assuming. yeah, well we did the cloud. so essentially it's streams of dark news, but i'll let you drive, but the crazy if that's all there is to motivate my subway. but just to do you still know? sadly, if she ever always get a split the shipper instead of just stick with a lift or flip that came over to them, i need deals says that you train school. so that's good news. i used to move on when they finished over or opening soon after buddy's post clicked

rescue stuff. but i'm saying yes, i see the best way to take a picture of i'll go and dump it on the straight dice so that i'm not the total is the aggressor today. i'm authorized with additional strong sites today. russian was the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing. but i think you chose, the seniors just click on the only thing and most the more in the world will shift for banning all important show of russian oil and gas t hope all's. what we're going to do is just the phone service involved. the little part of joe biden in imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. so there's a boomerang,

the the, the, the sizes of the laser of the bottom of them in the field, a nice a who always intended them use any international hopes, via and volumes of his pulses on most of the time, concerns to additional via skill age and meshes and then the end of the rebellion was a broad, couldn't find the russian president who lives in tools with involved when she,

the guinea pig goes in throughout the day. also this out by appeal to the russians, the military and security agency. those have been pushed into the cost of on the inside and see by the seats and threats. this is an attack on russia, on our people, and our actions to protect the homelands from such a threat to be taught earlier, rather than putting a draft of the nation branding the bob, the button on task one, a russia i'm is people. i'm following the country little defendants, so phone fees of the onset of measures us still in place in moscow for the peace of, for the 2 in the russian present on the head of the the very will welcome to you from inside of the international in the you see, we're coming to you live from us. so let's take

a look at the total source this out. you start with the latest breaking news from russia. limited humanize ation has just left the south west and rushes to the overall stuff and on and has headed back to its field gaps according to the regions governor. that's also the head of the private menchie loop, agreed to and his attempted mutiny. live on the appliances of mice. sees the headphones of one of the local minutes, the districts demanding. i'm meeting with benefits on bras. here's how the groups had explained his decision to back down, say, wanted to disband p, m c bulk that we went to the march of justice on june. the 23rd. and today we got within just 200 kilometers, must go. during this time, we've not shed a single drop of blood from all 5 just now we've approached the moment when blood can be shed, realizing the full responsibility for the fact that russian blood will be set to one side. we turn our columns around and go in the opposite direction to the field

camps, according to the plan. we are standing right next to the military headquarters here in a row solve that was blocked for the entire day. the streets here are still closed . however, the soldiers, i'll be a wagon in groups, i'm not collecting their belongings, are now getting prepared. really, you can still. you can see that there are a lot of 5 civilians here on the streets taking pictures. we can see that the wagner group have turns on their equipment and they're getting ready to see you. i've seen them collecting their ammunition to all the things that they've ever arrive here with. and it looks like the situation has now completely, the escalated, 5 civil see of course. so what's happening in the morning and it rolls off to the people here and that gauge their opinion about what happens. vermont calls are of artsy and roast almonza. and, and as for the days,

you didn't see the move of the seat himself, these the handful of his, of the ministry district, which has been edited, kept advised group of game to go here and is now said to be heading to brother is the brother awesome. presence press, service admins catalyst and see the the ambrose the piece deal. the negotiations were held throughout the day. we came to an agreement on the end admissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre on the territory of russia. the head of the wagner pmc accepted the proposal of the president of beller. it was to stop the movement of armed wagner personnel on the territory of russia and to take further steps to de escalate attention. to this morning, the russian president informed his belly russian contra part about the situation in the south refreshing the leaders agreed on joint actions look single made a number of clarifications and having agreed with president put in the greed on talks with the head of the wagner p m. c. they've got a pretty goshen or negotiations were held throughout the day. as a result,

we go to the next step of the proposal on the admissibility of blood actions and the chairs are of russia. the parties also agreed on a complete the escalation of the situation. they have come to an absolutely, when we deal with spelt out security guarantees for all participants of the parent, males are a group also develop russian president felt folks with the secure edges on the same issue, bosco highest bind to the russian president for his mediation. so with the problems folks on outlining more details of the do mean pretty nice. grateful to the bella, russian president, location carrier. so his assets central, she's known the p. m. c bog down for 20 years. and it was the president's personal initiative. but i managed to resolve the situation without further loss is an escalation. as a result in the agreement was recently pmc will return to the field caps. some of the finances will sign contracts for the russian defense ministry, the new they've changed their minds and off the ministry to come back. us with the

others. no one will prosecute them. we've always respected her rubbing deeds. as for the wagner hate any progression, the criminal case has been terminated than he himself, which will lead to better bruce the evening conversation that fix disagreement was room and constructed a so full the us say size i written to the blank size but goes in, appears a lack support for many of the volume and suits is very committed to defending the country. i'm very surprised that he agreed to the deal and very, very surprised there was a deal and all. but my guess is that the, the issue for him was that his, his own people were not supporting him. you know, the, the wagner group for a very hierarchical a, a back mode. and they established a tremendous reputation among the russian people. and i'm sure that for many of

those veterans of those battles were, there was so much blood should that it's for their reputation, sudden weight to be tarnished, and for them to be viewed by the russian people, not as heroes, but as traders i think i think that probably was very troubling to them. how nice i said progression was probably losing strength. and when president per public way denounced, they drive towards moscow. my guess is there were a lot of people in the wagner group. it says, look, this is not, we, we, we were willing to give our lives to defend russia. we are not willing to die to defeat russia. i think this is a lesson learned. you're, you're never want to allow a mercenary force. we've had to rush so much independence to gain the power to

literally threaten the government of the capital city. the united states will do anything that creates opposition to the government itself. they're going to be looking to. i think maybe they were hoping to get more us was hoping to see more support for the wagner group by the general population as well as the russian military. i don't see that happening and, and, and, and at the same time, we're seeing an effort to buy certain people here on the, on the, on the west to encourage ukraine now to start taking advantage of this. so, but i think it's kind of short list. i am in my opinion because i just don't see any ground swell for the, for support. uh for this action ultimately to in fact uh, have a cool against russian and the address to the nation early and

present, puts in by on the old was guilty of treason would be so very pious. he brought it to the vase and i mentioned the 8 still having the bike and the sweat. so russian statehood shares. i'm addressing, oldest citizens of russia. so the armed forces, lower enforcement agencies and special services. the fight is in. c'mon does a now in that battle positions fighting against enemy attacks by the doing this heroically. last night i spoke to the commodities in old areas as my i'm also addressing those who have been deceived onto the part of a grave crime and on the rebellion. today, proseries fighting for its future were fighting against aggression from neo nazis in them. aust is against us as part of the military with inflammation and economic power of the west with fighting for the life and security of all people to do it for us suffering,

t and independence for right to be. i agree with you to remain in russia, a country with a 100 year old history. yeah. what you, it's about. so with the sites of all nation is being decided and it causes us all to be united with unity is a consolidation and responsibility. we really need to opinion and everything that makes us weak our must be put aside to about any differences that may be used in all used by all enemies, to disrupts us from within the shades of the actions that splits all unity um, basically renegade options against those fights and that the frog and city, that's the, it's a stop in the box against our country and all nation for looks. this stop was dealt to russia in 1917 we, while the country was fighting in, well, well, why don't we do it? so it's big 3 was stolen from it. so what would that, what intrigues and bickering behind the nations box turned it into a great catastrophe? and i figured you've elected the destruction of the army and the collapse of the states with the loss of boss territories. and the.