ok, she takes out a gun and she blows her brains out. all my going here and go for that can you will actually you can because even though she shot her sale and the family had the body cremated, they kept a lock of hair. and her head was loaded with austin a. u. manga was even poisoning his own fiancee. what will make a long story short, he actually lot winds up in my neighborhood at the northwood long island, b a medical center. and you know, something interesting. he was there on a residency. any guess what? what particular medical field in psychiatry that he had to go on the front of the board of trying psychiatry. and can you this each and every one of them that he should be in the program. and he grad, incredible. and then that's when i got that phone call and i this under each i live . so and i happened because one of my agents and i go down to visit him. now let me

tell you this guy look like a movie. so i just got off the call cause wearing these ada saw sunglasses, you know, cells in john, if i didn't know better, i want to introduce them to my own daughter. yeah. right. the next the next marine doctor. right, you know 29 nations heroes. i'd say come on and i says when i go join the family. wow. if i didn't know that well. so he's given me the same bar and draws story and role and then when i saw it challenging him, he's not so charming. you know, don't want to talk in the next thing. you know, he leaves the country, leaves the country. a goose is in bodily africa when he's in play africa because it's such a shortage of physicians. there he's killing women and children and pregnant women . my god. and they have an arrest warrant, say him,

but he returns the united states because he had to renew his passport before he went on ya to another country. and we arrested him, but not for murder because we didn't have any evidence that he murdered anybody at all. here we were send him, but every federal ages, they re crime line to the government. he said lie or it's of the government. if you want to a federal agent, you weren't guilty of a felony. that's right. and 3 years in jail, full line to the government. so that gave us a window of opportunity, a window of 3 years to trying to prove that he murdered any of our nation's heroes at the north port va medical center. and that's what started me on, on that particular journey. let me ask you to why is it so difficult to think for medical professionals to be able to spot a colleague who, who can kill in a hospital environment. medical professionals, of course, are supposed to 1st do no harm on is it, is that it,

that they're supposed to be hillers, and not killers. so people generally don't suspect their colleagues of these terrible crimes. it will look if you are so inclined to commit a number is what perfection and what location might you choose? right? tape? you might choose a profession that kind of gives you the legal power of life and this over an individual what professions do we know? how that, you know, you, you might want to take a profession where people take, you know, have dedicated themselves to saving lives. so who is going to believe that in this wonderful universe of compassionate people who have dedicated themselves to saving lives, there's going to be someone hiding in that group next and charlie taking lives. it's almost impossible to believe. i mean,

all your coworkers have dedicated themselves to saving people. you see, miracles performed almost every day in the hospital and to believe that somebody is intentionally murdering people. is very, very difficult. you know, it's very difficult for the fireman to believe that one of his co workers is actually starting fine. that's right, right. it's the same thing here. it's a universe of such dedicated professional people that no one wants to bully. now, one of the a coworkers would be intentionally taking lots and i can understand that i could say we are speaking with an investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his investigations, into medical serial killers. we have to take a short break, but you're not going to want to miss the 2nd half of this conversation. stay tuned . we'll be right back. 2 2 2 2 2 the. 2

the acceptance, and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do, you do not watch my new show search like why watch something that's so different listed of opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department, the c, i a weapons makers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not. we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way the

the, the welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we are speaking with renowned investigator and author, bruce sacrament, about his work tracking down medical serial killers, those medical professionals who become self murderers. welcome back again,

bruce. glad to have you. thank you, bruce to tell us a little bit about motivation, the average serial killer. when, when one thinks about john wayne gacy or gary allan ridge way, or dentist reader is a sociopath or a psychopath. who becomes more and more bold, often even taunting the police. but that's not the case with medical serial killers . is it tell us about their motivation? what leads them to do it? you know, i'll tell you what i've seen over the years. um, not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but this is when i've witness. i would say the number one, the number one reason and i've seen something called munchausen syndrome by proxy right now. much as an syndrome by proxy is, is often displayed when a mother will maybe intentionally harm a child and bring that child into the hospital. show the staff what a caring,

dedicated, outstanding parent they are. and is trying to be so compassionate, please help my child and they want the staff to give them understanding and compassion. well, in some strange way, this is the same thing with medical c o kills. you think about medical serial killers. when you look at their evaluations, good. okay. nurses, okay. doctors. except when it comes to code in a color, i mean an emergency, a cold blue. and when you read the evaluations, you will see that big in an outstanding when it comes to code. one of my medical serial killers, kristin gilbert, the doctors would say, you know, if i ever cody, i would want kristin gill that there she starts barking or is it the young in change was scanned out of her mind. she case control, she's a hero. she's outstanding, why this is one of these people want because throughout their life they will kind

of put aside and they didn't get the attention that they wanted. i do one never can says there was continued more zeros and heroes. now, son, and this is an opportunity for them to get the attention that they never had before, and now they don't care about the victims. the victims is just an end to the means . they care about the attention that comes to them and that i've seen throughout the world is perhaps the number one reason. it's not exclusively, some people likes wind go. i just loved the power of life and death. nasa your power and then over the summer, what incredible high for him. you know, why didn't incredible turn on that he could that by god that he had the power of life and death and, and that's also come with you. a few other reasons sometimes is a case ongoing in texas. now we're a doctor is just pissed off at management and his co workers and he says, you know,

i'm the best doctor. he, he can even compare it to me and you know what they did to me. they took away some of my privileges, they reduced my office, they cut my money back out, show them how fill them when patients start going unexpectedly, they know we always have a point value and they will come back to me. my god, the yeah, the priest. yeah. those are some of the most common reasons that i've seen throughout the world mattresses. be able to walk 2 or 3 years ago. i entertain the idea of writing a book about serial killers. i, i've written 8 non non fiction books. i thought it would be kind of a fun departure and i especially wanted to talk about their motivation and what made them so bold before they were finally caught. so i wrote letters to 8 or 9 serial killers who were in prison, including some of the most famous names, many of them, including gary alan ridgeway the green river killer,

the b t k killer son of sam tex watson from the manson family. they actually answered me, but their answers were all the same. they said they found jesus in prison, jesus had forgiven them. jesus was, was saving their lives, they were living their lives for jesus, etc, etc. ridgeway even sent me. it was a big package. it had 50 religious pamphlets in it, and he asked me to distribute these pamphlets around my neighborhood. so of course i true, i threw them away. but my image, your conclusion was that, that there manipulative behavior continues in prison all these years later that, that this manipulative personality is what keeps them going. they think it's going to get them something to, at least profess to be christian, for example. so my question is, is that also common among the serial killers once they've been caught?

and if it is, how are they able to, to cover it up for so long as they build their medical careers as well, i guess it sort of a 2 point questions. the 1st part about being uh once, once they are incarcerated. well, many of them will decline to speak because there are additional murders out there. god. right. and they tried and convicted and even received the death penalty depending on where it occurred. so they're not going to do anything else, right? because when we suspect these medical serial killers are killing 36, the a 100 people often we don't have the proof on hand that they killed that many people die. you know, we have narrow it down to the very, very best cases that there are and pursue those cases. but they know they know

there are other victims out there and we should be able to prove it and not have it, though, especially with some of the that they gave us. they could be retry, prosecuted and possibly even executed. so they're not going to say anything at all about that. all right, and you know it's something interesting because when the whistle blow was in the case of chris and gilbert, this is a real example of whistle blowers fan, had floyd backgrounds and you know, um, some of them had a substance abuse problems. they had other personal problems and they knew this was gonna all come out. but they had incredible coverage to come for us and tell us what had happened. well, what do you think happened after the trial? so kristin gilbert, who were your legs killed about 30 or by nations heroes at north hampton b, a medical center in massachusetts?

she goes to trial and she's found guilty and the whistle blowers were just tremendous. we wouldn't know that it wasn't for themselves. so when they return to work, do you think that the agree it is he will say, oh no. just the opposite. just the opposite because you'd say what the hell did you do us? now when people drive drive the hospital, they all say, call this the hospital, let's say if my dad, that's the hospital, it does wonderful science. no, be think that's the hospital with the medical serial killer work. now why did you have to do that? you room for all of us, you room the reputation not. thank you for getting rid of the murder that they never, ever. all day heard was criticism from the co workers. why did you call these fact the general? why did you believe bring the police in here? why did you bring one of his bad publicity to us while genetically credible?

bruce, tell us where people can learn more about the work that you do and about your book? a sure, well the website is same as the name of the work behind the murder cars dot com. it details all the stories of medical serial killers inside the v a that i personally investigated, including doctors wango and kristin gilbert and others, including a, a physician in albany that old and medical records to put the veterans into research studies. they should have never been ended and they were murdered. i mean, they're really some incredible stories in that block. and also, you know, there's a, there's a television show out there. cool. um. what's it called very scary people. yes, thank you very scary. b, h o n and it has 2 levels on swine go. yes, but i like to find people to um, to read the book, to go to the website, to

e mail me. i get emails all the time from veterans and non veterans and people who have been victimized by this. and, you know, and so one thing we have to mention here is a whole human side to this john, you know, we talk about the statistics in the message, but these are human games we're talking about but for the family search our show. so could you imagine, do i mean if i, if i rang your doorbell one day and i said, excuse me sir, you know, my name is bruce sacrament. and i'm from the, the a. and we have reason to believe that your father's death was of a suspicious nature. can i go to the cemetery and dw nadia runs? yes. and can you imagine your visit, like a, could you imagine sitting in a court room and hearing all this evidence of how your father was murdered and a v a hospital asked that he spent his entire life?

yeah, same thing, america reads, right, well, a terry to the movie the hassle. imagine the human side is, is how you would feel. and sometimes when we talk about this to 6, how many mirrors and the techniques and all that, we forget to mention the human side of the families and the families have always been just amazing for me. just fantastic. fantastic. well, thank you so much for spending this time with us. this was fascinating and we were very happy to have you. so i want to thank bruce for joining us and for sharing his fast ending experiences. and thanks to our viewers for watching the author, bret easton, ellis, one said, quote, it strikes me profoundly that the world is more often than not a bad and cruel place on quote. in many cases, i'm sorry to say that's true, but we're fortunate to have people like bruce jackman out there doing the right thing. i'm john kerry echo. thanks for watching the whistle blowers until next time

. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the no problem. did you want us to have that in the week monday or is store upstairs or some you know, book or used to work? what's the weight? and i've emailed you and what your cell set up with us for general, but the most good things up, the tools on most and that leaves the windows of both employees unique. that's usually the yeah,

there's no games. why, why would you be the, see it but not least agree that that was the, the current situation that defined, although i think it's a great political opportunity to offer kids for the 1st time, particularly to the world, to say, listen, we have a multi, a whole lot of relationships with all the powers of the world and what to dictate relationships between african countries and those black ones. he's the national

interest and i would see that happening at the moment. the top of, sorry is this. our leader of the issue is an attempt to the meeting in lots of holes involved. so this voltage on loss though, i can service the addition of the escalation method a deal. the end of the video was broken by the by the russian president who was enclosed with much tv in getting a pretty guardian throughout the day. also this out by appeal to the russians, the military and security agencies. and those have been pushed into the cost of on the inside and see by the seats and threats. this is an attack on russia or not people on our actions to protect the homeland from such a threats will be tough. earlier rather the dresser ration grinding the number of

volumes of tax on russia i meant steve on file in the country will defend itself from faith. and on caesar, imagine a still in place in moscow following the piece of port or 2 and above the roof in front of the top of the life long ago. this is all the money as well as a mom in 30 minutes of news of use. so now we saw it and then i just knew from a rush of the field and as i shouldn't have left the south west to rush in the city of a rough stuff on dawn and have headed back to its fields kept by us according to the regions governor, now also the head of the private medical group agreed and his attempted means any earlier involved in the flights of miles to seize the headquarters of the local

admin fee districts demanding a meeting with ministry. pump ross is how the groups had explained his decision, but now they wanted to just spend pmc bulk. now we went to the march of justice on june, the 23rd. and today we go to, within just $200.00 co, which is most guides during this time. we've not shed a single drop of blood from all fine, just now we've approached the moment when blood can be shed, realizing the full responsibility for the fact that russian blood will be set to one side. we turn our columns around and go in the opposite direction to the field camps, according to the plan. we are standing right next to the military headquarters here in a row solve that was blocked for the entire and say the streets here are still closed . however, the soldiers all the wegner groups, i'm now collecting their belongings, are now getting prepared. but certainly you can still. you can see that there are a lot of 5 civilians here on the streets taking pictures. we can see that the

wagner group have turns on their equipment and they're getting ready to be you. i've seen them collecting their ammunition all the things that they that have arrived here with. and it looks like the situation has now completely the escalated funds a little. see of course what's happening in the morning and it rolls off to the people here and that gauge their opinion about what happens. vermont calls are of artsy, real stone ones on this. so it is, you can see the moment the volume with chief hymns of leaves, the headquarters of the movie district, which hadn't been early captain advised me. any of his orders is now said to be heading to buy the roofs. the brother dressing, president press service, said, mince had succeeded in broken the peace deal. the negotiations were held throughout

the day. we came to an agreement on the end, admissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre on the territory of russia. the head of the wagner pmc accepted the proposal of the president of valerie, was to stop the movement of armed wagner personnel on the territory of russia and to take further steps to de escalate attention. in this morning, the russian president informed his belly russian contra part about the situation in the south. a freshman, the leaders agreed on joint actions. lucas single made a number of clarifications and having agreed with president putting agreed on talks with the head of the wagner. p. m. c. if danny bri, goshen negotiations were held throughout the day as a result progression accepted the proposal on the admissibility of blood actions on the chairs are of russia. the parties also agreed on a complete the escalation of the situation. they have come to an absolutely when we deal with spelled out security guarantees for all participants of the parent, males are a group. also the bell, russian president, personnel talks with the security address is on the same issue. off y'all has

signed to the by the russian president, for mediation, as it is with the premise votes. when outlining more details of the deal, we are grateful to the bella, russian president, location carrier. so his assets that she's known, the pmc wagner had for 20 years, and it was the president's personal initiative. but i managed to resolve the situation without further loss is an escalation. as a result in the agreement was recently p, m. c will return to the field caps some of the fight as will sign contracts with the russian defense industry. they've changed their minds and off the ministry to come back. us with the others. no one will prosecute them. we've always respected that rubber deeds. as for the wagner head, you've got any progression. the criminal case has been terminated, then he himself will lead to better bruce the evening conversation. that tricks, disagreement was boom and constructed as close live allowed to alice under bruno is an independent political alice doing this here from toronto as andre

. thanks a lot for joining us. hands of a on of the it's been a dramatic event because you obviously being funny here in rushman was your reaction to the deal broken by bell arisen you surprise the bob with chief agreed to it and uh, i was surprised of the deal. uh i was getting worried and then relieved when i heard about it and it's likely that to cause tango was returning the saver since rush i helped deal with the a coup attempt a few months ago in the fence. so there was, i wasn't surprised about that, but the situation was moving rapidly and the information that we get into was so though i, i follow a mix of sources a and the, the, a lot of the rest of my skepticism seemed to was rushing ahead uh,

making all kinds of suggestions that you were having a cool and, and the, and the what surprised me the most, there was the use aspect response as if such a thing would be positive when the we've got a nuclear arsenal. that would be shifting the power in a, in a very stressful circumstances. so the, the deal after, of course, this is still only 24 hours into the events. and what is i in hindsight, who knows, we will have a different opinion, but if it's already, it didn't appear in to me that this was a, that the stories were bigger than the actual event itself. we've had the seizures in cities like by toronto, actually a year and a half ago when truckers blocked the cities in canada and causing severe

traffic problems. bringing whole the areas of down the downtown core and major canadians that is to hold. and the, the seed has lasted for a few weeks and it took the army in canada to get to get these trucks off. so i thought this is wish it was more along these lines rather than a cool. also because pray goes and never actually mentioned put in by name and between the 2. there's a long standing history. um, uh, one of mutual support um and uh for those and has been going after 2 people in particular for the past couple of months. so you and get us the most. this is not the 1st time. and also, yesterday or 2 days ago, there was an apparent attack against the wagner position, which the pretty goes and it has blamed on the russian military. so i think that

perhaps in hindsight this, this so ration was that the reaction to that alleged bombing and it was to 5 to goes in is a man who likes to take risks. if you look at his life history, the risk both the business and he was, he became a millionaire. and in other ways he spent quite a few time quite a long period of his use in jail. so um, um, hindsight will tell us exactly what happened and what, why, but i think uh, the situation was, it was never as bad as i was being described. or at least as it appeared in the, in the peak periods, which was a imagine, decided this evening late afternoon and rush. i mean, they, you're making good for that as ongoing about how you save, you know, the west, the media, they, some of hype to all, but that's the, the end of put, say,

it was an avenue of a new need to, you know, what really called a subcommittee, i guess is that some native want to care the nathan member, i may voice support for put in. we're going to say any of the west, some power was, you know, because i mean a 2 or a mutiny or what, let me when i pull at the end of the day is not the luck with a and we know will know the west thrive of democracy, why do you mean? like i said, we didn't hear any of these western powers, say anything. so to put it in, you know, yes, you need to, uh, just flush this well, i wasn't surprised at and on was the 1st president to call the 1st leader to call put in and after all put in himself helped there go on a few years ago when, when hands on was under a real coup situation when the real way i say real cool because it was being led by high.