hey, huge role in, in, in, in american politics. and so that's a couple lenders in nevada as find itself in this position where it is offended, stating americans and do feel that to that much, we are much more closer to russia. and as a result of the, representing all of these but so it's, it's, it's a very important one. first off, you've got to uh, to navigate. but i think the initiative that we see last week of the applicant have of states 6 to communicate clearly with sort of fits and disregard. so i think i've insisted that it's not the lines when it comes to this was without defending. what so many believe in this country, and i think that the actions of last week will communicate the different kinds of message to, to the west in terms of based off because it finds itself in district got sort of them opposed to come simply seats within the manual visa emissions and the rest including as i've said it on the $220.00 and it's got a very i know i'm a couple relationship with the with the left, including

a to abide. so we'll have to wait and see or what will happen when the negotiations to renew a go uh, starting in august, but did that so that's and day off. he has been set up because that is, i don't think i might just be expelled from my goal. i want to ask you a personal question because i gather from your commentary from your writing. the progressive is liberal, human rights values are close to your heart and you're also not quite critical of president durham, a full. so for what you call his flip flopping on various your political issues. what do you make of this? a pro is, you know, a promising africa opportunity to one occasion and quickly, a remote or bulky if one's any particular country and decides to exercise if sovereignty or it's in the trial to, to, because the trial with the parent is not to the taste of the west either what is completely unacceptable and this is a lie of support. those are pulling full mouth to paula will it? well that has got an allow states to be think states all seen countries. so i don't

think i has got and i keep decide on it's on it's interest. what all i mission of interest all. and of course that you still got a relationship. i did talk to the understand when the government and some people who started because system disregard because of the relationship that says that i think ahead with the use of thought and rush hour and particular um. but at the same time, you have a lot of other people to believe that it's, you know, interest to invest largely on the us really us sort of freak out relationship. and they feel that if we do lose uh us as a trading partner. um, it might also impact our initial interest and it might impact when i could. i mean, already us situated very high unemployment rate. so oftentimes in general, i sitting on a much more complicated position. that's why most of them are pushing for this multi point. a world where they can have a choice to decide based on the initial interest or to make relationships with and to go to a close to with in terms of economy and assignments. well,

mr. for whatever. now we have to exercise our own suffering right? to take a very short break, but they will be back in just a few moments face you and the so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is on all sides. very dramatic. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful. very good. i think it was time time to sit down and talk the

the, the ball conductor was applied to the base of a senior research fellow as africa, asia dialogue mister for, couldn't before the break. he mentioned some of the africans fulfilled and they have to invest in their relationship with the united states and with the west. if they only put all that accident that bus kid on the, in them, in the threat of losing a whole, are there for changes because brakes is ultimately not that nowhere an anti western clock. what the receipt or if he's the way is described here in russia is essentially an organization that is now representing non western global majority. so there is no uh, no uniformity of decisions there. but do i understand correctly that the someone africa feel that they have to choose either between the west or the rest?

well, i think for those of because i put between the bedrock and the hot place. and this for me, by the way it's, it's a great political opportunity where of the consultants are going to be saying, what is on this and interest. and then after tends have been very vocal in that regard to say that they look at multiple world w. i look at multi relationships with various countries in the world. rates are very important plan important platform and reach out for content. this mazda establish strong relationships. we have also pilots roles with countries such as what i show, i try and now united state tickets cetera. again, those i also have streamed important. so the current situation that you find also, i think it's a great political opportunity to qualifications for the 1st time to articulate the world, to say, listen, we have a multi, a whole lot of relationships with all the possible of the world. and what to dictate relationship between african countries and those blood funds. he's the

nation of interest. and i would say that happening at the moment. and i think to an extent those voices are beginning particularly into the use of many in the list in terms of way off because it's in just the internet and brush up by the way. all right, so also do to understand to know that i think as good the rights to choose is friends and then we, we cut it can be, it kind of dictates it. and i think that messaging will trickle through from the, from the us, china, and rush. and that's why i do believe that the cutting stand off, that you find all sorts at the moment is an opportune time to, to create those positions. now let's put that issue because aside and speak, and by talk about the upcoming breaks, i'm in because as we already eluded the issue, all for a lot of improvements, participation and this is pretty charged, especially in, in, in south africa and south. which was interesting. it's more likely to mean when it comes to the i c r. s for, and was the other way. so if you guys do period changed,

designed to isis, the spot in parcel does incorporate it into up with solution. the only way you could have uh, the, the, the, the possible address to send it to or not applied would be through the vote in parliament and that to be again taken to the constitutional court. so as things as being stands right now, if president bothering me putting lots of visits out of sorta think i will be a forced to arrest him. i'm and did. that's the situation at the moment of close to the very views in south africa in that regard, that you cannot have been the arrest head of states of the size and power of what i show. you know, the new cape also built it to create international counts and it to be kills and in international relations that, that, that, that would be extremely, extremely dangerous. but at the same time, if that's that i'm putting does come to south africa and just thought that is not

that is to that also will compromise modular total isn't it to allow an invite. you to click this open uh on setup because i'll have to go by just find itself also in a much more compromise position when it comes to. it's all lies, particularly those of the about defending. but by the way, that those, that i put in for the rest, i not have not rectified the icbc, adams that jobs. so let's say i think you're talking about the and the united states in particular leaders. 5 launched a number of horrors that led to depths of uh, you know, hundreds of thousands of people and we all know that many of those wars were launched under false pre taxes. but you mentioned the, you know, the possible undermining of multilateralism and not opposing the ices see what the rest warrant then is the same chord that back in 2011 endorsed absolutely and bogus

charges against more market alfie. we know that it's the same for that the didn't issue a single war and the against the western leaders. and i wonder if for a culture of nelson mandela, what i know was former principals on the, when it comes to, you know, defining who your friends and adding these are, i'm being very solver. and then that choice. i wonder if that's in a way and betrayals is. let me say when you have to sort of side them with the polite society and the way that they don't punish you. what i told you, i agree with you, and i think we're in a hobby of the 1994 in terms of identifying all of these cookies and entering into all of this partnerships because wanted to be a septic by the well, you know, post about it but it was the biggest challenge you guys to see if it's a, it's a double standard. you know, you've got was on tripping dollars in the form of tony blair. and george bush was it been comfortably not in the respects them into the color of his skin. i mean,

this is a medical ravaged. i believe it will destroy that country and it was a relatively prosperous country. i'm not talking even about the more margaret i fear his fame, but about because she just joined the whole state. it's a open air slave market right now there. people sold them the streets there, but the she did not. i agree. i totally, i totally agree. i mean, it's double spending so far i've been the lead us from mainly african countries that, that taking today is the see not just sending that to good people up were putting others on a daily basis and putting things. i mean to now it needs to read, but importantly, tony, blad troubled stream that you know, to spending that to the same man or to customer to felt false pretenses including george w bush into the wind it up. it just seems created public around the world. so the biggest try to do dice is that you to double spend. it's what is a south africa interest in upholding the i think his credibility, well, it's not a big effect him to look to do, to withdraw from nice to see. so remember in 2016 after that so yes, but we had with the form, i pressed it up. so then i found the model by ships. but then the ac conference

last year december was seen that the decision to say that, you know, we need to find those, those beck and put in change within the icbc. but again, the criticism stands that i see is not uploading just as the quality. uh it, uh it takes others and its quite lenient on others. and this is the case i'm going to this is a test by the way. but unfortunately this i don't think is a fit in no one had no choice close by to 90 for it. it was looking for a substance, it had to look for, you know, a big step. they did all of these tubs and the organizations, including dice, the seats, because we wanted to be known as a democratic institution. and unfortunately isn't all what you can have come home just. i think it's primarily western narrative that south africa and reputation as a democratic country would be damaged if it doesn't do a, b, and c. all the things that i pushed for by the west, including the i c, c,

arrest warrant. but i wonder if the south african leadership ability to maneuver to pursue the own interest in these very dire straits. and i mean the, the international student is pretty complicated, right? now in many countries have to do a lot of juggling. i mean the, and the, you know, jungle obstructive values versus practical necessities of that own people. i wonder if, you know, taking offense out of in, you know, your own vision out of your own agenda could earn you some credibility in non western warners. do you think the rest of the world is looking at africa to see how you know how to behave and this a complicated situation? you all want us instead of to tell you is uh, is, is by the way the honeymoon is over for a very long time. so if it goes to the to it gets gloves again because they'll bring them in the country. but now we're facing reopened. detect,

and we have to make sort of decisions and i think so i don't realize uh oh realizes no, that's the nation. i didn't test domestic presidents and what did i do that we do? and that's what the i've tried to do. but again, days that fumbling and if you propping and you know, treating and throwing in terms of the positions that they're supposed supposed to take. but having said that until they um they, they be able to resign and get out of these treaties that they have, which uh, sometimes um, you know, this had been dishes to day off the conditional interest or side of the condition interest. we're going to be finding ourselves more involved in similar situations. that's the best one. the other point is. so i don't think i kind of want to what i'm and then i left him and his, the pretty assesses they want to promote and push this modular total is that even though most of the doesn't work, i, we know, for example, at the moment that they're talking about to the expansion of united security to console people, it's still maintains the, the very few members of decides who lives and dies in the world. just thought of

because one of those crunches that phase, we need to expand this. so those are the kinds of topics that thought of you guys having and educating to watch the change around the world. but you know, it's, it's tough time full, full democracy. but the, they have to grab the polls by the holes. and i think this particular one will be nice to see and documented. now what under powder is the case? a major power in the world is one of the greatest tests ever we've had since the don't have democrats in this country. well, it's all way to, you know, all of us come to a point whenever you have to grow up and make some difficult. the choices. i think that was also the case for russia in deciding whether, how to repels western military expansion. then the decision was taken and we all have to leave and deal with a concert classes are very unfortunate that we will have to do that for many, many years, especially a rush or when it comes to your plan. because we, we are sharing the border, reassuring families with them. so it's, it's actually a hard choice. and i think once again,

the russian would appreciate anyone who can actually all center health class man fence as well. so with our neighbors and hopefully rebuild the country and make sure that the, you know, and does what it needs to do for its people. now i think by the way, what was being so sort of to, to do country. one of the things that it's important to note is that the, the setup and relationship is between both countries. ukraine, the english because the menu made the africans and sort of because in particular going chiefs and then this is such a desperate during the days of pockets of both russia and ukraine, paid a very important role. and i think that's what adds to the fit of confusion that we find ourselves and thought, i think in terms of uh, who do supporting this all and spend on a line position when you're talking about the ukranian uh, associates, republic, you know, and that it was part of the soviet union and the legacy of the soviet union for the current inc. renew, leadership. you know, it's

a bowman nation total abomination. they don't recognize any of that as a, as something legitimate this part of the history they see that are in totally black terms. so when a south african leaders during a prostate era went to a desa, they went to the soviet union and it is a russian that is a legal successor of, of the country, not only in a sort of international what terms, but also in terms of ideology, and recognizing that, you know, that's part of that chapter about history. it was difficult, but it was there and you cannot just stick it out. and perhaps, and, and this is where south africans are and inspiration for us because i think sometimes when i speak to south african experts, you have a much more objective look at that period of soviet history in terms of social safety and as in terms of public services, you know, and it was an old black at that time and i think the in part of your current

government is also inspired by those ideas. but it has been able to re adjust this to more than time. but it's hard to argue that governments need to provide social services and be supported for the citizens in multiple ways. don't you think so? you know, i'll, i'll, i'll understanding and view of the, the, this will be a junior, and of course it's, it's all grandiose. it's, it's great because they are provided with all and the assistance that we need. but of course, if you speak to uh other people that live during that period, where are they in the right shop, wrap up today. oh and ukraine, as i said, they don't recognize that either. but for us, we're talking about the good job, but the job, the importance uh the, the optic tends way physically in ukraine, not disbanding the politics of today. and for them on to do the interpretation and analysis on the way it just sits on this. well, they think of the people and drop it off, and that's what i meant. ok, well mr. franklin has been a fascinating conversation,

but we have to move in there. thank you very much for your time. thank you. thanks for having me and thank you for watching. hope to share again on was a part of the the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the good to buy. couldn't yet, or share was the, it is all nimble because they're showing up on sort of thing is the most let's see for sure. don't cry and skin funny loving this thing that was he did c e o you follow up with them. so if i do,

let's proceed to the, the wagner group, leave their position in south western russia after saturday's attempted meet me saying fighter as well now head back to their field ideals. and the meet me was brokered by the ball, russian president and coordination with the russian president for to see the wagner shape, leave russia for bella rue, facing down the challenge, a top official from india is a ruling party launch is out of the gathering of 17 opposition faction to plan to form a coalition act and next selection, and mostly the government,

the of coming to live in the russian capital. this is a weekly on archie international. i'm rachel evans here with the top stories of this week. and today. welcome to the program. wagner forces have withdrawn from south western russia without incident, according to local authorities. overnight, the fighters left their positions in russ job and claiming that they are headed back to their fuel camps. in luke off, the move came after the ball russian president, whole negotiations with the wagner chief and coordination with the russian president. let's take a look at the moment. the wagner chief left the headquarters of the military district in raw style under which had been captured by his group and the attempt to new me. he is now set to be heading developer routes. earlier, wagner fighters managed to seize the headquarters of one of the local military districts where they demanded

a meeting with top brass. here's how the groups leader explain his decision to back down to a go walk me and they want you to despise p. m. c. vogue. now we went to the march of justice on to the toilet side. and today we go to more than just 200 kilometers most go. during this time, we've not shared a single drop of blood from outside to speak your now when we the products the moment when blood can be came back. realizing the full responsibility for the fact that the russian one will be settled, one side, we turn our columns around and go in the opposite direction to the field camps according to the my god that could with more is it. but i need set our correspond that was on the scene earlier with more on the aftermath of wagner's presence and ross job as we are standing right next to the military headquarters here in russ cellphones on. as you can see, the situation has now completely the escalated, the roads have been d blog, so the traffic is now back to normal. you can see the military here are

the back to work. the members of the wagner, a private business or a company have gone as well. now you see some of the consequences of what happened on saturday. the minute your headquarters are right next to the circuit, so this is where at 10 was they have destroyed this gauge. so they have destroyed the pavement here as well. the situation was quite sense on saturday, as there were shots fired. there was a loud bang as well. we found out that it was the fact that wagner, members were shooting in the air, trying to disperse the crowd, the little section from the locals as well, who were approaching the members. i'll see a wagner fire. is there a company asking them what they are doing? here what their purpose was and why they're not on the front line. and instead they hear in a role stall on zone at 1 point one,

they became sold sense of one of the members of the wagon group accidentally shot himself in the 1st. he was a treated a right away at the moment, older roads around role self has the zip laws. life is back to normal, and people full of leave salvage whatever he's left off of this weekend and a life is back to normal remark offer emergency brush cell phones on the canine service was also called on to help sift through the aftermath of the incident in the city police dogs examined some of the prominent wagner point stops. they checked for any suspicious object from the territories that were occupied by the fight. here's one of the places inspect it was the local circus, which has a headlights, with an image of a tank stuck and escape the crumbling announce that the criminal case against the wagner founder. you have gainey for goshen will be dropped and he will leave russia

to go to bella. ruth's russians folks met demetrius prescott, added the wagner fighters will not be prosecuted. taking into account their efforts on the front lines and ukraine, the bell, russian president's press office underline the importance of de escalating tensions . the negotiations were held throughout the day. we came to an agreement on the end, admissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre on the territory of russia. the head of the wagner pmc accepted the proposal of the president of valery was to stop the movement of armed wagner personnel on the territory of russia and to take further steps to de escalate tension. we're grateful to the bill of russian, president lucas shaking for him. he's the only thing we see fall in the head for 20 years, and it was the president's personal initiative to manage the result of the situation of the law system as low as it results and the human cause. the combination of some of the advisors will side contracts with the rest, the defense ministry. they have changed their minds and ask the minister to come back. as for the others,

no one of the 16th demons which we have always respected there, whoever would be a supposed to go on ahead. you've given a pre going to criminal case. and so literally phone billers, but either they even conversations or things disagreements. there's some stuff to so on friday, the wagner chief accused the russian military of targeting one of his company's camp in a rocket attack, allegedly killing its finders. the russian defense minister dismissed the allegations as this information for goshen. then vowed to march on moscow to deal with those he believed for responsible for entering the military to stay out of his way. amid attentions western media outlets such as the economists and the sunday times were quick to change their tune regarding the wagner group, while formerly referring to the group as quote in nazi regime, they recently opted for terms like rebels against vladimir putin. meanwhile, the new york times and washington post houses cited anonymous,

us intelligence officials, claiming that washington was aware of the wagner chief plans days in advance. professor sayed mohammed and were on the from the university of tehran, says it's not unusual for western media outlets to mirror the u. s. intelligence communities, rhetoric. if we assume the thing you then uh they were behaving very irresponsibly if they were fearful of nuclear weapons falling into the wrong hands. so that shows that they are completely irresponsible. but also if they really didn't know, and i'm not sure they did, because after the events take place, everyone can claim anything in the washington post is known to say what the deep state and what the intelligent us intelligence services want them to say. but if they knew within, why were they so foolish? why was their response over the last of $24.00 or 48 hours and the response of the

western media that is so close to the political establishment? why was it so horrible? why was it? why did they predict think things and so badly? mm hm. so either way, if they don't come out in a good life, no, and staying on this topic, there was another headline by the, the wall street journal, which said that the, the us not incense to postpone the into the introduction of the sanctions on wagner . for fit of siding with with proofs in here. now how do you explain not considering that the us is always considered wagner to be of service organization postponing sanctions on them? seems quite extraordinary. well, that's why i always say the worst violator of human rights across the globe is the united states and is western allies, because they are the most hypocritical. they speak about human rights, they preach about human rights. they claim to be the great supporters of human rights, but they will do,

they will support the most dirty of the dirty if it suits their purpose. as we saw that when they supported the contra rebels, they saw that we saw that when they supported outside on isis and the, as of a brigade or the battalion back then. and other such extreme is groups. so if they see an interest in wagner, regardless of what it is or how good it is, or whether it's good or bad. mm hm. that's beyond the point. if they see it serves there that it could possibly serve their purpose. they'll support it. if it doesn't serve their purpose, they'll stand against it and so they have no moral principles. but what is, what makes so western regimes worse than any other is the fact that they have no principles. but they a pretend that they have the highest of moral standards and contrasts many countries in the global south have back the kremlin is response to the rebellion. among them is china, which just of cit rushes for an affair,

as deputy minister in beijing showing interest and further reproach meant. the chinese side has expressed each support of the russian leaderships efforts to stabilize the situation in the country in connection with the events of june 24th. it has confirmed its interest in strengthening the confusion and further prosperity of russia. earlier russia, as head of state, had a phone call with his towards his counterpart who also back the actions of the russian officials. meanwhile, are ronnie and authorities underlined their support of russia's rule of law and