to find the west, i think the russians understood the west stands very suddenly, behind the train. they see our way, the okay. we have a sort of a church truly an interesting to like that way of memory of an innocent country finding itself on the ship on board of defects for it is ass threatened by the nazis in munching searching. now we have a feeling of ukraine in a similar situation. these are the most of what we can give them. i mean, general fourthly, bend their rights in eastern ukraine though, obviously. so the way most of the world see is, i mean, you're calling it the west, the russians call it the west as well. i sometimes wonder because why did envoys at the united nations representing most of humanity failed to condemn the invasion the way you are right now. in fact, the rest of the world is ramping up. economic growth in doing deals with russia and china, clearly, uh and india and through deals financing the war and away. well,

you're right. so the emergence of the cycle going to south country. so would you prefer not to take either side in this industry, but you conflict? it's been a bit of a surprise slicing to us and to use. but if you look at the big members of the india and you look at china, you're looking to countries which yes, they're not going to take a position on how they won't. she won't go out. but they're very clear, for example, a nuclear issue, which i should come check in that they, i did against the use of nuclear weapons by russian. and that they all very cheap to see russia guessing, engine negotiations with ukraine and with the west to bring the watch with it. are you said this bottle barrack so well, i mean, you've said previously i again to that committee. i think you said it on our show before the pigeon was risk of us. you don't think the newland victoria in union who admitted by a warfare labs in ukraine. you don't believe that the massive elements coming in

the british soldiers there in ukraine. what would they all do and you think boots and she didn't just set their up to 14000 people were killed in. and don't you ask them to hand skin just let it go on knowing as we do now, and i don't know whether it's a surprise to you. when angela michael said that basically, boom is what drink by means. i huge. as i've said, i'm the more simple you, russia has each destruction of the world, fed by russian official media and about the soul. she's the perception in the west is very much as i've said, oh, a big hit really. um, she power russia launching a check on an aggressive roboson. i understand the attorney, but what do you think of when i, when i know that's the best precise description of the situation? i think that there were mistakes on both sides, which they did. but i think that the final criminal act slash the criminal in,

in marching the war. and you said the other side, i did research my, my, my views at region is risk of us, which refers back to the time just off. i've been that about that. so we, we back in 22000 to date 2010 or a nobody believes that we're actually going to do what is done. and there was real prospect. so i was give you the difficulty of finding a way of reading through. it should be much to reaching some sort of mutual understanding. it was according to the bank, but there was no way claims. going to get into the nature of sheep food shots because it was contested, tertiary between, between russia. right. we're now in a situation where there's always this very nice people. so the way a side of me, russia has already lost out very bad, a number of mutual sweet, sweet, and spend the particular of joint or joining nature. nature is to actively today about light people have ukraine joint. i'm russia and it's an attempt to prevent

boxes actually brought the prospect close to josh. and we need to find a way back to position with 1st of all, to such to treat shotwell and secondly, we can find a festival of why guaranteeing, guaranteeing ukraine secure, or she can just been what once we must start back to attack the secondly, in over a longer piece, what's your funding way of demonstrating to russia each security is not from i see all you the most of the world is and things like that. it to think softer. angular michael said the men's records and un security council resolution 2202. i don't know what you think about the fact that she said it was just a way of giving time for the nature of countries to fill the weapons that to be able to i don't know what to and commit genocide to complete the job as i've been done yet to convince the fact is that most of them, i think, well, you know,

western europe is declining region economically, any case and with a finland and sweden join who has these all this entire region is declining economically in terms of its power. and the rest of the world is moving on that. so that's why they remain neutral in, in great pods. i mean, didn't the minutes go? as i say ratified the un security council resolution revelations, not shock you and make you realize boots and had no alternative given that he was believing something for years that wasn't true. this was actually just so i hope to huge a message because didn't get stuck for you early on. i don't know what quotation your slicing from bank of america. but the germans did work quite hard because he said it was just a means of o as a delaying tactic of the way of defusing. what at the time, like a very nice the civil war in new crane and nice and giving an opportunity for the 2

sides to find a way out. now if you got the stock and if i had to, i blame ukrainians more than the russians for the say that nevertheless, they've got to stop. and we're all sitting on the edge. but all kind of really, which still does not justify what russia days in, in february of last year. done just okay. well obviously it's got, you know, that's not the way, right. you would say and you, you believe me the ukrainians that is not unfair because so then scale piece candidate in kiev, then under the diesel edge perhaps of this all it got cooler moist q is going against isn't the fact that it was already a de facto kind of nature call any from the phone call. we have on youtube. people can want you to victoria newland choosing. who are the forces that run ukraine? this was the book against that was to be used against russia. and whereas, diplomats like yourself bill buns at the now at the c i a was saying,

oh this is what russian does one level. but there were other forces with blinking a noun and sullivan. and so one who wanted this as a showdown to get russia back into the yield, seeing the error full of just being ordered around. that's presumably with the russians thinking the rest of the world, things as well. no, but i shouldn't get secret. and i don't think the rest of the world that's on there with genuine attempts to resolve differences from, and it's coming down from their own. what made them a much hard was russia seizure of crimea? i'm in 2014. by which time of construction it will run by there on the dark to go. and that point are you crying? which had been defeat split culture, split between the sort of pro russian hall a pro western off. you find about the pro russian ha, she's a pretty dramatic to support him for united independent ukraine. and when the russian troops went in there in february 2022 in expectation for she goes with

flowers. welcome to that. they found themselves fighting a pretty united bush again, and we in the west believe that united nation has the right which has the right to the support. we are buying that option to continue to do so. we think the right are some of this has to be ukraine, that survives and finds a peaceful relationship with russia. and it was like 2 way of getting to that is for them to achieve significant ministry progress and to be gain significant amounts of church rate, which rush, i kind of got to punch. so tiny brands and i'll stop you the more from the phone, but you can investigate the rush. you're out of his break. the

only way not to be around to see what's printing was, are out there so. so the this'll be slippers are going to see anything important to me. the last thing was, the reason i was giving of used to be imagine we have some more more for someone who was this we, which i knew people to the the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the former. you can baset of to russia. so tony brands and you said

the grocery expected a quick victory. we now know that boots in said in st. petersburg, there was a piece deal initial therefore they withdrew from kiev. isn't the point about ukraine as far as rusher is concerned? about finishing its new liberal experiment. you yourself talked about how we put in wanted to join nato. it's at one point. it's over. that experiment is though it's not even about done yet. it's going to hand skin, all those people who were being killed with an a to a nation weapons since 2014. and the qu in care of this is about something different. and i have to ask the whole is britain now it war with russia? because britain noises, it isn't the wheels and they chose why they're 50, just as old as the and we have the they're going to put his name is we have a us whistleblower for the pentagon, which will be just going to jail. is me a, is being invited to the grand jury of,

with leaks from the pens. again saying british soldiers in ukraine fighting the russians. know they're all, i don't know, but actually there are a number of special just going by the leave that know, i only have this from the press. there are small number with the 10s, not the hundreds of thousands special forces that advising you cringe on. how to use the weapon to support and that is not true of knowing the truth and you k a strictly us, the number of other questions which will not directly bolt well. and it's just as well as when knowledge, because russia, which has of defense funded by one kids that as a whole nation, which the very, very bad indeed, if it goes into a direct was, why had to mean why? well, because of the case, the russian soldiers in britain, and i can only imagine what britons reaction would be. my freshman, special forces were in central london. but clearly there is a nuclear deterrent. so what you just said doesn't really make any sense to anyone

that would push it up on the assumption, which i think is but like the assumption that any war between nature and russia remained or the conventional russian with loops. i don't need it dramatically. i'm sorry, i don't understand how they would lose because there's a uh, also amazing nuclear response in russia and there are no tactical nuclear weapons in belarus and then we do live it in the past few days. we're talking about the end of the world here. as well, i have no expense. i mean i deal with a lot of people given you che, when i'm a new page and when i talk to the rep situation, they say to me, there isn't as much as i say to them. no, he's not. the person that i knew was a cold, rational calculate you a russian church, which is why i'm, we're going to be called that actually russia will avoid getting into a direct confrontation nature. and secondly, even if that concentration happens, cushion will finally avoid that. try to contribute your qualification. then you put

a confrontation, everybody including russia usage, clearly. and that is that the tyrants, which is why native nations are not directly and officially entering the war and why we're hearing voices in russia is saying it's time to act with tactical nuclear weapons to show and remind the world about new kid turns. because britain, germany from the united states of boring weapons and they're even sold just on the ground as well. we have indeed heard a few such voices. you mentioned the article, gosh, i got charged off my know the beach calling for euclid strikes against against nature as i what proof necessary to impress a bunch of citizenship, russia, and we have since she, me a sprint for was including one income, a sense saying this is much and then the other off would like to meet you train it very well, not to trace it saying the reactions face from the west. if we get into that sort

of church, we would read it off for russian. i think the sensible people on both sides, on very clear that crushing the new kids for sure it would be a disaster all the way around. a testament to the multiplicity of use allowed in russia, people can, which are interviewed, kind of gone over from saturday on the, on the rumble. i mentioned earlier, the decline of western europe, economic age, germany and recession clearly, britain for the 1st time since 1961 finding itself uh with uh, a uh, debts hire them its, uh, annual a g d p and then food inflation going crazy and weapons being funneled the public money to be a system, as well as rise, kinetic backup. and so the, the big defense companies, what happened was to west in europe when, and this is what most of the world does. think rush is going to win because it has more weapons and as more resources, what happens to west and europe when russia wins?

well, as i check, fresh look into it. because finally, russia is our gun and if it gets it, we just need to make sure that our rush or hom be out gun or no one will i go wrong? as i say, nature has 10 times of defense. the question, if we get into that, then rush solutions, which is exactly why the russian government wants to push it very hard to avoid getting into that, that, that direct confrontation at the moment. where is a very interesting movement, the mileage off to russia, which is, frankly failure. last chapman i think being pushed a long, long way back from its initial initial lines of success. the thing is both bankruptcies. uh, over the early part of this year, the russian, russian army took finally a robert unemployed. could you trade in town by which i took 8 months to do it?

the credit is on now. now just take a string of very small villages back. i'm so sorry. i'm sorry to interrupt, but we don't really know what's actually going on in the field. the embedded reporters from the west and from the other side. you know, we don't exactly know, but what we do know, is it some say that russia, once a long war and is waiting for all this uh, european and american weaponry to come in and then to be destroyed. and that's what i was getting at been what happens when you are because russia has put its defenses, then it can just wait and destroy the one by one, cause it over a matter of years and years. well, yeah, but it has costs for russia. well, you say you can, economy is indeed having difficulties with my mental though i think by quite match the difficulties with the rest of the compressor as you can on the growth according to the i may have or yeah, well, i'm something i'm really over to him and he doesn't know, no, we, we in the, okay, microsoft having problems, we've all got in particular punch pandemic problems. but the reality is that russia

is looking at a loss of its major source of income. well, you'll guess guest shows in mind i'm not a question, but clearly clearly the by the ministrations destruction of the north stream pipeline causing the biggest eco dissolves, are going to see which is one thing. but the india, china, the global south countries are more than enough to be able to replace the demand coming from us in the or whether it's true, i'm sure we'll rush and we'll continue. therefore, we'll have to wait to sustain this population. but at the significantly lower level, i think brushing gdc perhaps has already formed by 6 percent or something since the most significant. know that what is on the previous course report? well, this richard stuff, stuff where rush it was integration increasingly. and so the question globally call a has reasonable future,

while the economic growth in front of it is our cutoff for making sure technology for major sources of management expertise, and from its most immediate customers, neighbors in terms of training costs. that's what i want to say. don't think that's the way you know. i'm so we can give in the middle east. i believe, you know, the president of the united i remember to is there the st. petersburg florida rushers, the restaurant is the place to go to talk to a business. i believe what about the sanctions? what do you think? because i have a gain from that and call them and g community, the evidence. and you said sanctions on russia, you know, it doesn't, there's not really much points and it's uh, they don't really work. i'm not sure that's a pretty spot. i'm not sure it's a precise quotation. i what, what do i do not? i'm rather hostile. just say i'm rather hostile to sanctions. they never work. and they certainly never work with regard to russia. quite a part of that. there were things that can be done that remains having an effect economically, but then not having any political effect. these are exact words. that's exactly

right. and that remains the case. nevertheless, only assumption we get possible what that economic effect blows back, the living standards for what we rushed side. yeah, i mean we know the effect of u. s. and e. u sanctions on venezuela pumps tens of thousands killed ordinary venezuelans by the sanction them in his way of the impact on iran, on syria a to this day. because the united states occupies a 3rd of syria illegally right now in midland to seize the sanctions. but as you yourselves at that for the sanctions on, you know, going to politically affect preteen is very popular. clearly in russia, i mean, do you think britain itself sanctioning itself, britain tdm ports, gas. ukraine is being paid. zalinski is being paid by russia, if a transit priest with a gas that goes to the you to keep the lights on even now rush it could you k,

the u. k. is on douglas and suffering from some of the economic structures for very high trade prices and from relatively high energy prices. and that's the price that we're paying for from continues one of the, ah, so what about countries as well? um, i would use people, but you know, if this question in this form, but if i were, i think the reaction would be that as a price was paid to deal effectively with the aggression that russia because i live in an information space without a free press as demanded by law, i should add there are laws in england against talking about the nazis of ukraine. just finally natural necessary laws, natural tree laws introduced. i, i know full well that. because you cannot broadcast in britain any television programs that talk about tonight's is a nazi movements in ukraine that alone there are restrictions on media. but i just

want to finish on there on historic a royal relations with russia. how is it going to be rebuilt? because eventually, maybe they will rebuild the relations as you've always wanted between london and moscow. how, how do you think they could ever be put together again off to so much british weaponry was sent that to kill russians, let alone the sanctions named hunting ordinary russians from britain? well, 1st of all of last week and just sleep. and the peace agreement has to be worked out, which is acceptable to ukraine, which means it's just chief question packaged as well as which was shuttle service . except even often it's things are going to remain pretty cold for quite a long time. sadly. but last part we can begin to rebuild. we can begin to travel so much. i haven't been in russia now to 2 and a half years and i are missing you to be

a travel and get russians traveling in the west. if we can raise you economic leak solar, that's going to be hindered by very strong demand here that russia pays proportion costs just the damage of the war. we can get people talking to each other and it's like cheap on the site. you can look for a way of giving russia the huge security guarantees which make sure that we don't get into the sort of confrontation to get. okay. representative, they'll never be for any of that rebuilding, obviously. so dirty benton, thank you. thank you. that's it for the show will be back on saturday with a brand new episode, but a job as you can keep in judge by role as i shall media if it's not sensitive to in your country. and i do i channel going underground cl number, they'll come to watch new and old episodes of going undergrad. so you said the the

middle of the 20th century, the portuguese colonial empire was in an acute crisis. a particularly 10 situation had developed in mozambique the people of this country were put in a humiliating position, income inequality ramp, and illiteracy. this respect by the portuguese for the local traditions led to a mass unrest. in 1964, the liberation front of mozambie for a limo began its arm struggle for freedom. the regular army was not easy to resist, but the guerrillas inflicted considerable damage on the invaders through the fighters against the colonial regime were supported by the soviet union and china. whereas the united states and great britain took the side of the invaders,

the board to gaze responded to the guerrillas attacks with cruel counter insurgency . however, 3 limos, 10 year courageous struggle was a success after the overthrow of the fascist regime and portico, late 1974. the new authorities surrendered a year later, lisbon fully recognized the independence of mozambie, but the victory had been gained at a high price during the war, mozambique had lost tens of thousands of and sons and daughters the. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is on all sides. very dramatic. i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very create ticket of time. time. sit down and

the deductible says, uh, seeing returning to the little guns region as the chief of domestic group, abundance of mutes in the attempt to talk with the bell of russian presidents agreeing to the versa. developers plus the media claim, us officials expected more bloodshed in the sense of wagner mutiny as the russian allies, such as china and iran, expressed simple to moscow of the weekends events. and israel simmons, the ukranian, i'm positive for publicly accusing the country of not supporting ukraine. then i'll fight the coming to live from headquarters. heavy must go. you'll watching all the international one is be just golf on here. the top stores this how funded forces are being seen withdrawing from key russian regions,

claiming that heading back to the field comes up. the negotiations ended the groups reach in the attempt, but like this was, it shows colors. moving through the guns republic, after withdrawing from the russian city of ra stuff on dawn, where they seized a number of military facilities on stuff. the de botton chief guinea pig ocean agreed to stop the mutiny and leave us your full bill of use of the talks with the television president, alexander lucas jenco. they were held in coordination with the russian president vladimir putin. of these women close up takes a look at the aftermath of barton his presence. we must have on the blood shed here and rest all hands on. has he not versus members or private? is there a company have and now left of the city? we are right next to the headquarters, all the military here, a little cellphones on, and it's back under their control. you submitted through police. here you can see the guys are back to work. however, the consequence says solve this farm easily remains. so let's take

a look at this uh, gauge is been destroyed by say, solve the wagner military group. there are 10 tracks on the street as well, but the roles, that'd be the blogs. now of course, so the situation here was the very sense on saturday. and i tried to gauge people's opinion about what happens here. they need to sort out their relationship after victory. it broke my heart, seeing what happened. we were worried, but now everything is fine. with very glad that everything worked out safely and without blood shed. and generally, wagner forces are not bad. they just did a bad thing. i think what took place should never have happened, though they behaved comedy and polite just citizens. they let people to come up to the vehicles, take pictures, but nevertheless, i am against such actions. they don't improve the authority of our country, sir, his center of the city and on the outskirts of the city as well. people are now

able to move around freely. however, on saturday, the situation here was very sense indeed, they were shots, fires were heard, the sang sang explosions as well as people ran for their lives. take a look at how it all happened. the

rest of military facilities, including the air fields, were taken under control. who wants to talk with the chief of staff and defense minister, but they are not. here we have blogs, the russell region, and are headed to moscow. the what we are facing now is trees that big ambitions and personal interests have led to the betrayal of one's country. one's nation and the costs of which boxes fights has and commodities were fighting along with the armed forces. i repeat any internal rebellion, it's a deadly threat to us states, to us as a nation. it's

a blow against russia, against people, and all action to defend all my beloved again, such as threats will be harsh the .