a kremlin metal space, i mean someone from the center and students a studies inducements of surprise the, and the bbc platform, the deranged pro criminal and apologist tony brenton is that the level of debates going on in the that there's or there's, or there's a real debate going on in the u. k. as to some extent there is now in, in russia cuz sides that i'm an apologist for the other side. as i say i'm way are you are british diplomats. you don't know if the case of gravitas or mike mike. mike can still get it, but my concern is that she shouldn't trust. i know i'd strongly believed and still to some extent, believes that finally, but you shouldn't trust up a well served by russia, which is integration into europe in some, some sense. who security concerns are the village. and um, you know, that we can get back to the relatively good neighbor, the policies that we had extra fee when i was invested. unfortunately, this war makes fact appreciate remote prospect for the future. well,

people are dying, as i said earlier on and what, what is the mood in that country? if someone like you is being called that. and the british foreign secretary, james beverly, after that drone attack on the kremlin, said ukraine, and it's voters with british weaponry. i presume it was a festival and an international law is right. um and it is on surprising tomorrow. i like ukraine is launching the beach. right. so, i mean, i thought for a while the american say is, or if they all, just charging them not doing it very effectively. the point is that russia has more about barracks in ukraine against you, training people. the training and government sees itself as fighting for its life and the west and the, i think the russians it understood the west stands very firmly behind the train. they see are we in the okay, we have a sort of a church truly an interesting to i can push that way. all memory of an innocent

country finding itself on the ship on board above the threat is ass threatened by the nazis in 19 searching. now we have a feeling of ukraine in a similar situation is having multiple, we can give them, i mean, general fourthly, bend their rights and eastern ukraine. the obviously, so the way most of the world fee is, i mean you're calling it the west. the rest of the school or the west as well. i sometimes wonder because why did envoys at the united nations representing most of humanity failed to condemn the invasion the way you are right now. in fact, the rest of the world is ramping up economic growth in doing deals with russia and china, clearly, uh and india, and through deals financing the war and away is what you're right. so the emergence of the cycle going to south countries which prefer not to take either side in this industry, but you conflict. it's been a bit of

a surprise slicing to us and to you. but if you look at the big members, the indian countries, which yes, they're not going to take a position on how they want to see who will go out. but they're very clear, for example, a nuclear issue, which i should come chicken, that they, i did against the use of nuclear weapons, quite russian. and then they all very cheap to see russia guessing. and with the west to bring the watch with it. you said this bottle barrack so well we, i mean you've said previously i again to that committee. i think you said it on our show before the pigeon was risk of us. you the victorian union who happens in ukraine. you don't believe that the massive elements coming in the british soldiers, their names 1000 people, were killed in. and don't you have to come to the hands can just let it go on knowing as we do now, and i don't know whether it's a surprise to you. when angela michael said the basic reboot him is would drink by mintz. i huge. as i've said,

the more simple you, russia has each destruction of a more fade by russian official media and above the associates. the perception in the west is very much, as i've said, oh, a big hit really. um, she power russia launching the chime on an aggressive roboson. i understand the attorney, but what do you think of so when i, when i know that's, that's a precise description of the situation. i think that there were mistakes on both sides, which they did. but i think that the final criminal act slash the criminal in, in marching the war. and you said the website does research my my, my views of cushions is risk of us. which refers box with time just off. i've been that about that. so we, we back in 22000 to date 2010 or uh nobody believes the rest of we can see what's done and there was real prospect. so i was gonna be very difficult of finding

a way of reading through the shipments to reaching some sort of mutual understanding. it was a cooling with back, but there was no way claims. going to get it and make sure she fit shots because it was contested. tertiary between, between russia. right. we're now in a situation where there's always this very nice people. so the way a side of me, russia has already lost out very bad, a number of mutual sweet, sweet, and spend the particular of joint or joining nature. nature is to actively today about light people have ukraine, joy, i'm russia and it's an attempt to prevent boxes actually brought the prospect close to just and we need to find a way back to a position where social 2 shots put to each other. and secondly, we can find a festival of why guaranteeing guaranteeing ukraine secure as you've just been what was pretty much the target to attack the secondly and over a longer wish of funding way of demonstrating to russia each security

is not from i see all you most of the world is and things like that, it to think softer. angular michael said the minsky chords and un security council resolution 2202. i don't know what you think about the fact that she said it was just a way of giving time for the nature of countries to fill the weapons that to be able to i don't know what to and commit genocide to complete to genocide didn't don't you have to convince the fact is that most of them, i think, well, you know, western europe is declining region economically, any case and with a finland and sweden join who k as these. all this entire region is declining economically in terms of its power and the rest of the world is moving on that's. that's why they remain neutral in, in great pods. i mean, didn't the mean sca, as i say, ratified the un security council resolution revelations not shock you and make you

realize who jen is believing something for us that wasn't true. this was actually just so i up to huge. i think i missed because i didn't get stuck for you early on . i don't know what quotation your site humans did work quite hard because i got medical said it was just a means of level of delaying tactic. and it was my way of defusing. what at the time to look at very nice the civil war in ukraine and nice and giving an opportunity for the 2 sides to find a way out. now of course you've got to be stuck, and if i had to, i blame ukrainians more than the russians for the say that nevertheless, they've got to stop and we're all sitting on the edge. but all kind of really, we're still does not justify what russia days in, in february of last year. don't just okay. well obviously it's got, you know, that's not the way russian would say and you believe me the ukrainians that is not

unfair. because so then ski a piece candidate in give them to the usual edge perhaps of this, the only got color moist q is going against isn't the fact that it was already a de facto kind of nature. call any from the phone call. we have on youtube, people can want you to victoria noon and choosing who are the forces that run ukraine. this was a bullet against that was to be used against russia. a. where is diplomatic? like yourself? bill buns at the now to see a was saying, oh, this is what russian does one level, but there were other forces with blinking a noun and sullivan. and so one who wanted this as a show down to get russia back into the, you'll see in the a referral to just being ordered around. that's presumably what the russians thinking, the rest of the world, things as well. no, but i shouldn't get secret. my guns and the rest of the world that's on there with genuine attempts to resolve differences from administering them from their own. what made them a much hard was russia seizure of crimea,

and in 2014, by which time of construction it will robust the dirt to go. and at that point, the ukraine, which had been deeply split country split between the sort of pro russian hall, a pro western off. you find about the pro russian hall, which is a pretty dramatic to support him for united independent ukraine. and when the russian troops went in there in february 2022 in expectation, or pushing goals with flowers, welcome to that. they found themselves fighting a pretty united bush again. and we in the west believe so that united nation has the right we are supplying that option because our trump for this has to be ukraine, that survives and finds a peaceful relationship with russia. and the most likely way of getting to that is for them to achieve significant ministry progress and to be gain

a significant device. a church rate is rush that kind of goes to punch. so tiny brands and i'll stop you the more from the former, you can investigate the rush or after this break, the, the tensions between wagner, a contract company and the russian government finally came to a head squares. if gave me the grove and committed acts of treason and insurrections, rushes stared into the abyss. thankfully, a compromise was found in price as

a burden. or there are lessons to be the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the full, but you can bass of the russia. so tony burns and you said the grocer expected a quick victory. we now know that boots in said that st. petersburg, there was a piece deal initial therefore they withdrew from kiev. and isn't the point about ukraine as far as rusher is concerned? about finishing its new liberal experiment. you yourself talked about how we proved and wanted to join nato. it's at one point. it's over that experiment is though it's not even about done yet. it's going to hands and all those people who were being killed with nature nation weapons since 2014 and the going to have this is about something different. and i have to ask several is britain now it war with russia? because britain noises, it isn't the wheels and nature,

this is why they're 50, just as old as the and we have the, they're going to put his name is we have a us which are blue for the pentagon, which will be just going to jail. is me a is being indicted into the grand jury? of, with leaks from the pentagon saying british soldiers in ukraine fighting the russians . know they're all, i don't know the number actually. there are a number of specially just going by the leave that know, i only have this from the press. there are small number. we're in the 10s of the hundreds of thousands special forces that advising the price range on how to use the weapons supply. and that is not true of knowing the truth and u. k. that is true at the us, the number of other question which will not directly bolt off. and it's just as well as when, not because russia, which has of defense funded by one kids that as a whole nation, which the very, very bad indeed, if it goes into a direct was based, pardon me and why? well, because that's clear for the russian soldiers in britain and i can only imagine

what britain's reaction would be by for action. but clearly there is the new to the tyrant. so what you just said doesn't really make any sense to anyone. i would appreciate that. no, it's on the assumption which i think is the likely assumption that any war between nature and russia remained of the conventional russia would lose lose dramatically . i'm sorry, i don't understand how they would lose because there's a uh, also amazing nuclear response in russia. and there are no tactical nuclear weapons in belarus, but to be delivered in the past few days. we're talking about the end of the world here. given u. k. one, i'm a new page and when i talked to him about the situation they say to me, christian is mad as i say to them. no, he's not. the person that i knew was a cold, rational calculate you, a russian church, which is why i'm reasonably calls that actually russia will avoid getting into

a direct call from they should, they should. and secondly, even if that concentration happens, cushion will finally avoid that training into a new consultation. then usually confrontation, everybody utility russia uses clearly. and that is that the tyrants, which is why nato nations and not directly and officially entering the war and why we're hearing voices in russia is saying it's time to act with tactical nuclear weapons to show and remind the world about new kid turns. because britain, germany from the united states of boring weapons and there are even soldiers on the ground as well. we have indeed heard a few such voices. you mentioned the article, the secretary gone off my note, the page calling for nuclear strikes against against nature. as i, what proof necessary to impress upon citizenship, russia despite multiple, including one income, a sense saying disability ross would like to meet you, trinity very well, not on facebook,

saying the reactions faced from the west. if we get into that sort of church, which would be dissolved for russia, i think the sensible people on both sides on very clear that crushing the new kid special would be a disaster all the way around. a testament to the multiplicity of use allowed in russia, people can, which are interviewed, kind of gone over from saturday on the, on the rumble. i mentioned earlier, the decline of western europe, economic a, germany, and recession clearly. britain for the 1st time since 1961 finding itself uh with uh, a uh, debts hi them its uh, annual a gdp and, and food insulation. i'm going crazy and weapons being funneled the public money to be a system as well as rise. kinetic babcock, and so it goes to big defense companies. what happened was to west in europe when, and this is what most of the world does, think rush is going to win because it has more weapons and it has more resources.

what happens to western europe when russia wins? well, as i check, fresh look into it. because finally, russia is our gun. if it gets it, we just need to try to rush or hobby out gun, or no one will i go wrong? as i say, nature has 10 times of defense, been fresh if we get into that, then rush solutions, which is exactly why the russian government wants to push it very hard to avoid getting into that, that, that direct confrontation, so like that. the moment is a very interesting movement, the mileage off to russia. she's frankly, failure. last chapman think being pushed a long, long way back from its initial initial lines of success. she's over the early part of the she at the russian, russian army took finally a robert unimed to town by. whoops. i took 8 months to do it. the credit is on now

that's take it, they string a very small villages back. i'm so sorry. i'm sorry. to interrupt what's actually going on in the field, the embedded reporters from the west and from the other side. you know, we don't exactly know, but what we do know, is it some say that russia, once a long war and is waiting for all this uh, european and american weaponry to come in and then to be destroyed. and that's what i was getting has been what happens when you are, because russia has put its defensive then it can just wait and destroy the one by one content over a matter of years and years. well, yeah, but it has costs for russia. well, you saying you, your opinion front of me is indeed having difficulties with my mentor, although i don't think they quite match. the difficulty has originally called brush . i think it on the growth according to the i may have. yeah. well, i'm sure you know many over terminators and no, no we, we in the, okay, microsoft having problems, we've all got in particular punch pandemic problems. but the reality is that russia

is looking at a loss of its major source of income. well, you know, guess gosh, the minds of i'm not a russian, but the daily, clearly the by the ministrations destruction of the north stream pipeline causing the biggest eco disaster. going to see much is one thing. but the india, china, the global south countries are more than enough to be able to replace the demand coming from us from your, with your trip. i'm sure we'll rush and we'll continue. therefore, we'll have to kind of way to sustain as population. but at the significantly lower level, i think brushing gdc perhaps has already for them, but 6 percent or something since the will start to significantly lower. and then what is the job? and the previous course report will just richard stuff. stuff where rush it was integration increasingly and so the question globally, they have reasonable future. well,

they can only gross in front of it is just our cut off for making sure the technology from major social management expertise and from its most immediate customers, neighbors in terms of training costs. that's what i want to say. don't think that's the way you know. i'm so we can give in the middle east. i believe, you know, the president of the united i remember it's was where the st. petersburg, florida rushes, the restoration fee place to go to talk to a business. i believe what about the sanctions? what do you think? because i have a gain from that and call them and g community, the evidence. and you said sanctions on russia, you know, it doesn't, there's not really much point and it's uh, they don't really work. i'm not sure that's a pretty spot, i'm sure it's a personalized quotation. i what, what do i do not? i'm rather hostile. just say i'm rather hostile to sanctions. they never work. and they certainly never work with regard to russia. quite a part of that. there were things that can be done, that remains or having an effect economically, but they're not having any political effect. these are exact words. that's exactly

right. and that remains the case. nevertheless, only assumption we get past the war by academic effect, blows back, living standards, what would we rushed to? yeah, i mean, we know the effect of u. s. and e. u sanctions on venezuela pumps tens of thousands killed ordinary venezuelans by the sanctioned them in his way of the impact on every day. because the united states occupies a 3rd of syria illegally right now in midland to seize the things that, that for the sanctions on, you know, going to politically effect booting is very popular. clearly in russia, i mean, do you think britain itself sanctioning itself, britain, katie imports gas. ukraine is being paid. zalinski is being paid by russia for transit fees for the gas that goes to the you to keep the lights on. even now the rest of it could you k, u k is on that she's been suffering from some of the economic structures for very

high speed prices and from relatively high energy prices. and that's the price that we're paying for. some engineers, one of the, asked a lot about countries as well. um, i would use people but in aust, this question in this form. but if i were, i think the reaction would be that as a price was paid to deal effectively with the aggression that russia. because i live in an information space without a free press has demanded by law. i should add, there are laws in england against talking about the nazis of ukraine. just finally natural necessary laws, natural treat laws introduced. i, i know full well neighborhood because you cannot broadcast in britain any television programs that talk about the nazis. and not the movements in ukraine, that alone, there are restrictions on media, but i just want to finish on there on historic

a royal relations with russia. how is it going to be rebuilt? because eventually, maybe they will rebuild the relations as you have always wanted between london and mosca. how, how do you think they could ever be put together again off to so much british weaponry was sent that to kill russians? wouldn't be russians from britain? well, 1st of all, the wall street industry and the peace agreement has to be worked out, which is acceptable to chief question packaged as well. and which russian service except even off to chico for quite a long time. sadly. but lack for we can begin to rebuild, we can begin to travel so much. i haven't been in russia now to 2 and a half years. my are missing you to keep the travel and get russians traveling in the west. we can reach you economic link solar that's going to be hindered by very strong demand here that russia pays proportion for costs. just the damage of the

war. we can get people talking to each other and i'll talk cheap on say, you can look for what the treasury guarantees which make sure that we don't get into the sort of compensation to get okay registered, it will never pay for any of that rebuilding, obviously. so tony brenton, thank you. thank you. that's it for the show we back on saturday with a brand new episode with a job as you can keep and judge by role as usual media. if it's not sensitive to in your country, and i do i channel going on the ground tv on mobile, they'll come to watch new and old episodes of going underground. so you said the the more expensive that i'm here to plan with you, whatever you do, you do not watch my new show search like why watch something that's so different

whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do have the state department, the c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do, don't want my show stay main street comfortable. my show is called stretching. but again, you probably don't want to watch it, because it might just change the way you i saw the report on cnn. that's us intelligence news about insurrection being planned . what say decided not to make it now hoping that it would be successful. rushes for administer slammed washington for trying to manipulate the narrative of events regarding the wagner and group attempt to meet me during his 1st exclusive interview. since the situation folded more on that later in the, our wagner forces are seeing,

returning to school region as the chief of the mercenary group abandoned to meet me a time after agreeing to do that, we'll see him leave, rush out for valid roots tab and the you up plan to move all the orthodox relics from the territory of the p, as the terse blog drops to the u. as ukraine continues, as depression of the church stops, according to russell was born in tulsa and services. and kenya launch is an investigation into a large killings. uninstalled by maturity guard study us own pineapple plantation, the coming to you live for the russian capital. this is our t international. i'm rachel events here with the top stories of the our welcome to the program. rushes for administer has spoken to our change for the 1st time since the wagner group shortlived mutiny. the country's top diplomat has touched upon

several vital issues. you can watch the full exclusive interview throughout the day here on our tea, but for now, here's a short preview. the one that you sent me is the one keep it is it the on president clinton has received a many phone calls. he's a count of pots, more support and solidarity, and we're confident that the situation that the constitutional order would be restored as is and now the case. all right, also how the several phone conversations at the initiative of my for encountered pods, many of them voice to the same opinions and to express solidarity. they were confident that we would not allow any attempts to submit the stability of the states and compromise the bills of the spectrum. a trump ration. what is your assessment of the role of mints and the situation and the so we find a peaceful solution and prevents bloodshed, which would be inevitable if the insurgents would continue their movements towards

moscow. this property. and you know what the result was? it was announced yesterday by the criminal spokesman for the retreat. sidney vi chit love, you knows i have you in. yeah, odds up a nice and what's your opinion about? so typical western analysts saying that the wagon a crisis, is evidence that the russian government is losing control of the situation. and that, aside from the war is immune into the country a little later than the letting me is it just recently use to talk with support. i think that is some wishful thinking. it would be a very fitting description of the behavior of what western partners i saw, the reports on cnn. they said that the us intelligence knew about the ins insurrection being planned a several days before it happened. but they decided not to make it known, hoping that it would be successful. and another cnn report that was around

yesterday, featured in an opinion by an american analyst was expected at that precautions. mas towards moscow would be met with more response, and would entail much more bloodshed. so that is a sort of better response to your question about. so what, so the expectations where and why these comments could be seen as we saw under the part of the so lensky regime. i think that they have a certain point lamented the fact that this situation could not be used to destroy the russian regime, butts. and my new old background. the representative of european democracy is tons of force or district autonomy of europe. with regard to the united states did not have your file from the us position. it said something like were reviewing the situation with caution. but the main thing we saw metro and said is a, for jewelry over the regime and me and this for g lipsy and sweetness

justify our support for you praying for you to. but that's what he said. and i think even an age trades can understand the position of a president, not from the political, economic, and media machine of the west is jointly working against us, such a politician spies, micron a positive this machine of the wagner. mainly it has failed, and other forces have been seen withdrawing from t rush and regions stating that they are heading back to their field. can't believe us, but it shows columns. moving through the look oscar public afterwards. pcs'd a number of military facilities on saturday. cmc wagner agreed to stand down and leave for our shop for bella. ruth, after talks with all russian president, alexander lucas shingo in coordination with russian president vladimir putin, are to use roman costs or takes a look at the aftermath. the bloodshed here in real solve on, on having versus members are private,

is your company have and now left the city. we are right next to the headquarters of the military here in law storm on their control the ministry police. here you can see the guys are back to worse. however, a search take a look at this uh, gauge is been destroyed, jury group. there are 10 tracks on the street as well, but the roles, that'd be the zip blocks. now of course, so the situation here was the very sense on saturday. and i tried to gauge people's opinion about what happened here. they need to sort out their relationship after victory. it broke my heart, seeing what happened, were it, but now everything isn't worked out safely and without bloodshed. and generally, wagner forces a note that they just did a bad thing. i think what took place should never have happened though that.