the united states, all the research we did on investigations into that, that a lot of this stuff doesn't work that is actually puts the use as a risk. so we've, we sort of went through a process of examining that, trying to present the evidence that you know, this war was built up since 2014, with nato training 10000 people a year. it didn't just immediately, you know, spring to life. do you claim the ministers, vice military machine that have been built, the acceleration of shelling across the line of contact just prior to the russian military and intervention as well? another thing that came up, i suppose, was the you and i'm boss the russian. you went on boss, so there's a view that the keys good is the worst thing to rates is the key every shame and try to present the case in such a way that they began on and ukraine, and even the beginning of the military operation to repel russian aggression this scheme has turned into something like a private military campaign of ukraine in a year and a off good. what is it? the ship? what kind of damage has rusher inflicted on the united states

o. e u. countries that would explain the motives of us citizens with less than weapons pulled a sabotage on the north stream $1.00 and $2.00 gas pipelines or terrorist attacks on prominent public figures. how did the remark by the russian representative to the you and, and named starts your just, how does it go down? what's the response? did you guys say, well, you're very quickly get a sense for the sort of practice on nature in the chamber. and that's a friendly countries, the rush, it would take me to, i think, max blumenthal, he's a giant of journalism. really, you know, on the dissenting side against this narrative that russia is solely responsible for the conflict and ukraine. so you can see that in the chain with the british, the americans and the nato countries, they seem to have a prescribed response. everything we say they didn't engage in any actual detail and the, the factual evidence that max and i am the a buster indeed at raised. so it tends to be almost a look the other way said there is no intention really to engage,

split the platforms and the ability to project this dissenting view to present the fines. facts like, uh, you know, the fading counter offensive, new claim which i raise the fact that these a very unfortunate young ukrainian men are being sent into emissions that nato forces would not be sent into into prepared, defense has added onto mine fields in, in some cases quite old equipments. i mentioned one of the, our personal carriers that were seeing a lot of in ukraine and the, and 113, developed in 1964. so action and fee of $9.00. the edits being rolled out across prepared defenses. in the south of, of done that's getting dumbass against these prepared defences, and it just shows the soonest isn't in my view. and this is what i mentioned to the chamber that ukrainian lives are held in at the finish. i, i did mention, i made a point to mention that the represent my visits to areas where ordinary civilians have been shelves with weapons provided by the nato countries. now i reiterated

that several times because i feel it's in my obligation to do that. as a journalist who's traveled with these people seen their homes burned, it's really incumbent that we use these opportunities to tell the truth about what's been happening and these regions with the meanwhile, you pay weapon shipments flowing into ukraine, are facing harsh criticism from british citizens as some have taken their disapproval to the streets of london and protest the american segment of the the

money. right now the u. k. has been one of the most active supporters of ukraine with the country providing more than 2000000000 in british pound zekia over the last year and a half as well it's, it's ongoing training of ukrainian recruits a never ending supply of weapons and munitions. we've said 100 or $500.00 pounds well to the rate i'm addition to the size of the missiles and hundreds of them with vehicles. and we've had the world on getting somebody to pay for disease, such as multiple loan truck of systems, china due to an storm shot of missiles. we spoke to a new worker, newspaper, journalist, and organizer of the protest against arms deliveries to you brain, feel russell, who says that the u. k. has been one of the biggest factors of kids. war agenda written has been roy the full front of some 2014 or 2015,

sending somebody actually contingent to train ukraine and all me folks. and since then they've been one of the most. busy fish of all the nato countries, all the european countries in pushing the war agenda. and since then, even in this. busy busy right now, the pressure on bassett, the former bridge and pass it just to most go recently, criticize the, the british government for. busy when the defense set, st. james cleverly issued a statement encouraging the ukraine is to use storm shudder missiles against russian territory. and he pointed out that this was a when even bill and uh, telling us policy and said that, uh, uh, britain was one of the most hawkish members of nato in terms of that their involvement and ukraine really tough there with the voltage states in poland. and

the fact is that they're all pretty sure personnel, there's only this intelligence and so on in ukraine, but known as this has been discussed in parliament. and a huge concern here about that cindy, depleted uranium weapons. i don't want to go into the details of who if it health effects, but the government is pretending that they don't have that they're perfectly safe. but in the house of commons and the house of lords, the questions have been off since it was announced in march that they were going to be sending those shelves for the trying to time. it's lauren ukraine isn't the 1st effort by the west to present russia as a threat to the world that's according to the dentist. q senate campaign manager to robert f. kennedy junior, running for us president. and the new episode of going underground with option returns the he speaks about the consequences of anti russian politics. the full

episode will be available tomorrow, here in our tea for now, here is a short preview to permission district that are represented in the united states congress for 16 years. was multiethnic. and it contains many russians and many ukrainians as well. goes for with the exec each other socially and, and, and, and people, families together, marriages between folks, you know, what's happened is a, is a horrible effort to divide people for political purposes only. it started years ago with the orange revolutions that were shipped to you to try to establish an area that was the code they put russia forward. i should pretty much read through the rest of the world totally based on, on power politics. and it continue with the broken promises of not advancing

nato power politics. nothing to do with the interest of the united states of america. and frankly, nothing to do with the interest or of the people here. but now, after hundreds of thousands of the ukrainians, men and women have perished in war. it should, and everybody's lot to work continues. and it seems that the united states and data was pushing the war to before until the last ukrainian. this is an abomination and ukraine, russia peace dialogue was held in south africa. the event was boycotted by cab, however, moscow's ambassador to the african nation, outlined russia's concerns to politicians, add peace activist decree and is being supplied with more than more arms as you know. uh, countries that ship had assigned initially themselves,

certain red lines, like not supplying long ratio tillery to ukraine, of them not supplying rocket launchers not supplying chevy, advanced heavy machinery tanks and so on. not the supply advanced air defense systems, not the supply fighters. they have gross these lines. where will we stuff with the most? no, we use weapons of mass destruction is low limit. is it dozens of south african politicians and foreign diplomats discuss peace between moscow in cuba of on wednesday. that's as the nation has suffered from a negative impact of the war. seen in rising food, gas and oil prices. johannesburg is hosting next month's brick summit and has said

resolving the conflict will be the meeting, the top priority. yeah, for can, confident has been making a concerted diplomatic efforts to settle the war with a large delegation, visiting both ukraine and russia last months is one of the organizers of the upcoming breaks, gathering praise the piece, mission mission as fruitful. and i think it was a highly significant visit in town. so all the fact that africa has taken the initiative to co peace to both parties. and i think the trip was highly successful. they would be, the delegation was very well received, both of you, but most people and i think they had very 1st for discussions. this is only the beginning of the process as you know and diverse to most because these is a protected that engagement, that must take into account all the complexities that play. but i think that significantly, you know, africa has often li, uh,

being the domain where you've been visas, where to come to resolve african public conflicts, but not the tables. i tell you just after this, waiting for you to try and broke the piece, because the situation has a direct impact on advertising, tons of food security in terms of energy security in terms of such a lives in terms of fluids, jones job losses, and therefore africa has a very direct interest in seeing these the canyon national human rights commission has launched an investigation into a legit killings and attacks by security guards and a local pineapple farm owned by an american company. that's after escaping investigation was published about the horrific violence on the plantation. we heard from some of the victims, the main deal. my gosh,

i was bitten by the gentleman guards, but the room on my head and they left me dying. actually they thought i had already died and that's when they dragged me into a forest near by where i spend the whole night. while i go farm and conscious and informed my family members who took me to the hospital, a dental moans were being seriously beaten by the guard summer killed and others when they're called disappear completely. i think the defeats we used to get grass for our live stocks at the delmonte site. one day these guards sauce and chased us and unfortunately their dog caught me. the guards thoroughly beaten me. they left me unconscious and dragged me deep inside the pineapple field. later in the evening they carried me outside the plantation and left me to die at the roadside. and by that time i was seriously bleeding and woke. i spent the whole night bleeding beside the road and early in the morning, the man carried me to the hospital and made these guards beat us. they chased us with dogs, and some people died while in the hands of these guards loudly. the commission expressed concern about earlier allegations of violence by personnel guarding

delmonte plantations. the commission also urge the company to take immediate measures to provide help to the victims. delmonte kenya is the largest ex border of can pineapples from kenya after the allegations. some buyers of plantation products including u. k. retail giant test. so have you been suspended supplies? local journal is frances, why rural has more details. since 201918. 74 didn't that more than 5 people have died. if the result of being a big 10, the big gods who we the one of the clubs know kelly called the wrong oh, $5.00 didn't want to guys have been charged according to court. the court. and it is believed that they have not been sentenced. and as team in the cost of the, the community that has been affected is seeking the inc. preinstalled amount of the kind of plates hold beneficial to their family members, protection against the future human rights of,

of nations. and the change to the court system that they see has denied the same jobs. these money to me, i forget the when i lost my brother at delmonte, his name is james kamani. his friend who had accompanied him was lucky enough to escape the guards. beatings, we reported it to the police station after his friend told us who had heard him crying for help after being arrested. but so far, nothing has happened. no justice. and finally, i don't think we shall, he'll hoping maybe the human rights body will come with a solution for this. after the guards kill people, they normally throw the bodies into one of the reservoirs behind the dams and tie stones to the body. so it won't float on water. what has been happening at the month? i want to say this, it seems they are very influential persons for on touchable. we're always frustrating our efforts to get justice after moving to various courts. when i was told my case has no direction and i couldn't do anything. i just left everything in the hands of god. since that day, whenever i come across the lawn to find apples,

i feel like i have seen my sons a lot of get them on to feed in a statement that it is a taking the allegations extremely seriously in last on investigation. and typically, the company out of that, it is for me to the to international has done that a few months right. according to the residence, the company still has noted the dining not for the family, of the victims of the results of an independent investigation have not yet been released, but we got to take of local experts on the situation. the employers tens of thousands of people. so that people perceive me to have a good friend of a food. yeah. and the van on the list on the social media, a lot of the for something coming up, showing that the outside of the corporate culture and the corporate brand, the judge pulled up there the be not in existence. some of the human rights abuses . so different rewards differently and different perspective in different places.

do you remember the factories which you'd really like to give the moment to go down to to the government is beautiful. the typical contribute is most likely to vehicle number of the country. it's a systemic issue, which i think they have for us so many. yeah. we've had governments in place feel for them. not because it's not been difficult. the ftp of the company has it has been in existence in existence and all the years. that's such complaints have come between the cms, the community and the company. nothing of substance. once the company may be in the just the community, then they think they can be able to speak and talk from this thing and maybe come to amanda tundi or how they can. and so these are the rest of the authorities have spent the past week reflecting over last weekends

failed, mutiny, and the ramifications in may have had inside and outside the country. that's as vladimir put in while addressing the nation's military on tuesday, said the wagner, per said, against moscow never stood a chance. they should do that because it's only story you have defended the constitution as well as the lives security and freedom of our fellow compatriots. you have essentially saved our country from a civil war folksy, just in a difficult situation. you punch your loyalty to the people of russia and your devotion to your military oath, showed responsibility for the motherland and its future. we did not have to remove any battle units from the combat zone. comrades of ours have fallen in the fights against the mutineers. the mutineers saw that the russian people were not on their side and it keeps going. to recap, last weekend, some of russia's wagner paramilitaries march to the russian southern military

command center in the city of roast of on capturing it and demanding the sacking of the defense minister and chief of staff. as the wagner tv of getting pre goshen claimed, the russian army allegedly had showed his face filling dozens of soldiers, something the m o. d dismissed as this information, bag or forces then began moving toward moscow. but a whole was called to the mutiny. after talks between paramilitaries and the president, a fellow ruse. alexander lucas shank. go forward and aided with moscow. the p. steel solve that and our troops return to their camp and the group falls granted amnesty in belarus. wagner's soldiers have to make the choice to join the russian army or leave to bella roost with their chief, a former greek diplomat, and a senior research fellow from london global policy institute discussed russia's response to the meet your needs, as well as the fate of the wagner forces the president booked and reacted in the

very careful way. there was no bloodshed. and actually, uh, this is this uh, this incident leaves putting much more stronger than before since he has the support of the russian people. and he has brought it to a conclusion, is that now it's over. we've got over the west, it was a terrible crisis. because a, you know, the country held together society held together all the key institutions held together and whatnot. so used by any um, uh, oh, opportunistic ideas about the i extra constitutional change, but i think that's the majority will, would signed contracts with russian defense ministry to continues to work set as they have started. which is, which is the defense of, of, of, for russia and as well are in there in the ukraine. is that just supported by

the west? i would have thought that the, the wagner room, what remains of it will now be taken over by the russian government. i don't think russia is just going to give this up. i think it's much too useful. and some use just in from russia's crossfield, our region. we're reports of a blast are coming in in this. what is you can see a huge plume of smoke rising from the scene of the incident. the local governor has already released the statements saying there are no casualties. the cause of the explosion has yet to be determined to and that's the route for this hour. but coming up, a renowned officer discusses how us and natal policies lead to crisis war and the risk of nuclear catastrophe on worlds apart. thanks for training in. we'll see you

right back at the top of the hour the . so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy from foundation. let it be an arms race is on all sides. very dramatic. the only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very unclear to get a time time to sit down and talk the

attorney, welcome to was a part of take it a go. when historians were revisiting the origins of the 1st world war, the current sleepwalking became very trendy in describing how divergent factors and self serving actors tangled together to produce one of the biggest catastrophes in human history of the world. andrews, he had another period of tribe, always still some number lading or are we being deliberately lot into and a beast folk to discuss that i'm now joined by benjamin avalon. both are all how the west brockport to ukraine is to add a little bit great to see. thank you very much for your time. thank you for having me now. the time as all of your books, how the was brought warranty ukraine is quite self explanatory. and unambiguous but the contrary. and then me wants to challenge it immediately. because after all, it was russia that launched this military operation on the ukrainian soil. and this

is something that both decision makers and opinion shapers in the west. so trying to frame as, as an act of aggression, a totally unprovoked act of aggression that goes against international law. and i have to say there, there's some validity to this argument. why do you think it was the was that was the main driving force behind this conflict? one of the points i make in the books is to try to distinguish between what are referred to as proximal causes. the causes that immediately preceded a war and the deeper causes it can extend back in history for there's no natural starting point for 1. 1 tries to establish just a sequence of events. so that while i make clear that the immediate cause of the war was mister food and decided to launch the war, he and his military staff or whoever else in the criminal was intimately involved with the decision. and that sense, they bear responsibility for initiating the war and if the war could have been stopped and prevented at that point, then he bears responsibility. and of course,

the russians bear responsibility for how the war is being carried out. what i'm focusing on the book more is not so much the proximal clauses but are for it is a distal causes the causes and extend further back in time that are now kind of hidden from sight that may have been on the newspaper papers. you know, the end the newspaper on the pages of the newspapers and years ago and have been forgotten, or they may never been on the pages of the papers at all. so it's, i'm focusing mostly on the distal causes and the causes leading up to the current moment. i'm do you know, your book reminds me reminded me a bit this a 2012 best seller by christopher clark on the origins of the 1st world war the, the sleep workers. and one of the reasons that book was so popular is because he tried to break the old paradigm of assigning a culture it then focusing on the who and the why and a step he was more interested in the structural dynamics of swelling,

animosity when you observe um, the way the, the rounds develop on both sides of the atlantic. do you think decision makers are cognizant of how dangerous could it could be? and perhaps of the historic lessons of the previous conflicts? yeah, that's a great way of framing it with sleep walking. um, i would make just a couple of points 1st. i think i can't speak for the inner mind of the leaders, but just going from what statements i see being made publicly on both sides. i'm sure there's some cognizance of the threat of nuclear war and the danger of this getting out of control. i don't think there's enough. and that's my fear or one of the fears connect with this conflict. i'll also just a risk for a moment that your comment about world war one. i think very often in the west and, you know, different people have different opinions. but i think the main street view that's coming out of washington and in the media is trying to impose the model of world

war to a sort of hit or like expansionist. and unfortunately, there are even some who refer to mr. put in as a new hitler or whatever. and this is i would call she warning a past event into a, a current event into a past model. so some people refer to their progress proquest in bed. and i think that the model that people is this actually more appropriate and the greater concern is the model of world war one, where it on control the arms race between as is usually described in there's complications this, but non control arms race between britain and germany. through a series of events and a series of $500.00 controllable circumstances. contingencies led to the outbreak of a war that was a catastrophe. and i think there's a great danger that we may run into that kind of problem now. and it's that world war one model that needs to be attended to closely in the west, and also in russia,

of course, one uh, how the united states to accumulate. they cannot make potential. and there are lots of people, not lots, but some of analysts here in moscow who believe that the americans are interested in having another global conflict as a way of overcome me, the multiplicity of cost of crises that we are facing right now. the crisis of capitalism, the crisis of global governance, ecological crisis. what have you, um, and i was blame that there are some historical precedents of that. i mean, i only klein's book, uh, the shock doctrine clearly demonstrates how the capitalized aims, couldn't be served by, by the use, by the sanction use of states violent ultimately, is this a conflict about the values of the bottom administration claims, or is it a conflict about resources and, you know, getting preferential, i'm keeping preferential conditions that the united states has accumulated as a,

as a head german. yeah. so i don't see this conflict, so as being one over a values that's not to say that there might not be differences in values between uh, you know, elements of us population or elements of us leadership and elements of the russian population of russian leadership. there may well be some differences, but i don't see it as conflict as having to do with that. i see this primarily as really, frankly, a proxy war on russia's border that is being pursued by the u. s. and then, you know, powers. and i think that there it's, it's not to say that it's all poorly intentions. i think there are probably a range of motivations. some people probably are not seeing clearly, some people are probably very well intentioned, but are imposing outdated models and incorrect models in there or transportation of events. um, but i think um, so i think the geo strategic thing is very central. there are certainly people in

elements of the us, the leads that do want to weekend russia. you know, this whole question of a unipolar world. there is concern about that is the will for it's dr and etc, etc. so i don't see that that's actually uh i, i don't like that. i don't like what's going on with respect to that. as far as the financial, the monetary issues, you know, there certainly are questions built into the background about the, the role of us dollars, the international reserve currency. there's questions of course, about, you know, how international markets work. on the extent to which i've really thought about the financial elements of this is, i do believe there's actually much truth to the concern about the military industrial complex. i'm sure your viewers are aware that this is a term that originally coined and popularized by president eisenhower. who was a 5 star world war, 2 general and hero, and in his farewell addressed to the american public. his final tell of his address . he warren, the american public of the combination of military, a garage,

bureaucratic power, and financial interest of the arms industry. and in fact, he even seemed like he was going to go so far as to bring in the question of financial conflicts of interest within congress. but was told mister president, you can't go so far. so i think that there are conflicts and financial conflicts of interest and power, conflicts of interest that have played some role in motivating the western stances towards what's happening in your book. you make the point that for 200 years of uh, the us as defense policy. it was uh, based, if not on the respect done at least paying some attention to the opponents, red lines or secured to sensibilities. and that's when it came to russia, the united states and nato disregarded this, this principle. question number one, do you think they made that decision deliberately? was it a conscious choice? and why would they do that? given that again, the russia is.