in the mainstream media, there are so many giants were linked was other renters and those interest i have a concern to basically work with a government. and in some cases, a controller government you know, this is a, it's a more virulent form of agency capture. in this case. the 1st amendment is captains re, essentially shipping this country that we never saw before because of the cooperation between the big technology companies and the government. you know, we changed government, able to reach into the lives of independent journalists like math, how you be going after his tax returns and raising questions while at the same time is challenging our governors practices and censorship. we think about what that means. you know something's happened in the united states profoundly affecting our, our way of life. and people know where to this is why robert of kennedy's

presidential campaign is so important. because it's based on re establishing our constitutional freedoms. it's based on shaking the truth is based on a deep authenticity that americans here and to connect with again. and it's based on human. the national divide, which we've experienced, which often is propagated for purely political reasons. and we know that it's certainly possible for people of all nations to be able to find a way to work together live together. but those who are dedicated to keep these people apart profit from that, they profit from our sales to profit from sanctions. they profit from being able to a heightened tensions. all right, how's the trouble making a mistake about it? any more at the edge of a nuclear war? because of the fumbling to bumbling the unfortunate

policies of the us government and other allied governments for nato to set the stage for greater and greater confrontation. why so, morris guns, rockets, munitions, it's all matches and the man does not stop and it will stop. when robert f kennedy junior becomes the president of the united states, i want to get more to the was in the 2nd mat tie be a used to be a friend of this show east of the viewing. actually sensing with the fact to reveal we were being chatted about him. his name is twitter files when he which he did with the long musk. uh it was uh, robert f. kennedy junior, who retreated to mat, saying the was a country is the most secrets it has. what could a president robot f kennedy junior, due to the silicon valley companies to enforce the 1st amendment to the constitution? or it's not doing to anyone, it's just not the government having a government which understands that it has no right to reach into the private lives

of people. there's no right to essentially sensor speech that yes, there are limitations for being understand that from a justice oliver wendell holmes are said to you, right? to swing your fear, stands at the tip of my nose says tree stage and does have limitations. and we can of the presence well, reestablish the government's limitations. the government will stop this government spying on people to stop the government using check companies to do this. originated with the government and the government using its power with a tech companies this, it didn't start was the tech companies and necessarily coming up with this grant idea about central issue. this is towards from inside the government. and you know, this is something that the tech companies always learn to cooperate because they have their own concerns about regulation. but what's happened is uh,

a toxic admixture which has a chilled freedom of speech in this country, which has caused people to the band or shadow vantage. or just put us in a place where we're not on like uh, countries in the past, outward find ways of switching individuals who had opinions, which were contrary to the received wisdom of the political and financial establishment that is considered to, i'll stop you there or from robert f kennedy junior, his presidential campaign manager after this break the the, i don't see this conflict. so as the one over

a values best not to say that there might not be differences in values between uh, you know, elements of the us population or elements of the us leadership and illness of the russian population in russian leadership. there may well be some differences, but i don't see it as conflict as having to do with that. i see this primarily as really, frankly, a proxy war on russia's border that is being pursued by the u. s. and the neo powers, the, the, the, the welcome back to going on the garden. i'm still here with robin. i've got a new junior, his presidential campaign manager, and twice us democrat presidential contender himself dentist. because image

a dennis we were talking about was in the 1st off a robin f kennedy junior. what do you negotiate? piece with boots when you stop sending weapons to zalinski. howdy, does he see that ukraine wars are forever war? one of the forever was going to, it shouldn't be, you should've never been a war. there was a minister minister agreement which could have headed off any kind of conflict which we see now, which after you'd remember that there are those in the united states document who are driven by audio audiology. and it's a, it's a throwback, they're working with the 19th century thinking, united states the united states as the so on the agent and the uniform world has to go to wherever it's disappeared. quite a while ago, we live in a multiple world where the stars were either one or not, or, or for none. and the lack of understanding which exists in our foreign policy

makers today has brought us to the process of a nuclear conflict with russia. have a conflict with china over to our one. i'm going back to the ukraine. congressional district that i represented in the united states congress for 16 years was multi ethnic. and it contains many russians in many ukrainians as well knows for with either each other socially and, and, and, and people, families together, marriages between groups. and you know, what's happened is a, is a horrible effort to divide people for political purposes only. it started years ago with the orange revolutions that were shipped to you to try to establish an

area that was the co. they put russia forward as incredibly straight to the russian world. totally based on on power politics. and it continue with the broken promises. not advancing nato, our politics, nothing to do with the interest of the united states of america. and frankly, nothing to do with the interest or of the people here. but now, after hundreds of thousands of the ukrainians, men and women have perished in war, it should never benchmark to work continues. and it seems that the united states and data was pushing the war to before until the last ukrainian this is an abomination. and you know, well, well, none of us in this country support whether it's called a special operation or an invasion beyond the, the john bastard of truth or marriage that this was precipitated by the failure to

reach any kind of agreement and brand aggression which killed 14000 people and, and no don't ask and hans who direction government had a constitutional obligation to defend. so what are we talking about here? we're talking about our insurance provider tours. masking is high state officials who come in to escalate and to 6 markets in this case, and an, an oil and gas mark market dropped a pipeline to believe, to go by the blue of the north stream pipeline to see more of the shopping. i think there's any question after that. are people inside his government are absolutely involved? no doubt about it or was it so 6, you credit isn't a fishing, but give me a break. i mean, this is all. yeah, i mean, how stupid to the people in washington state, the american people are and people are abroad. this didn't just happen. it was

planned. seymour hersh for probably an article that the sector the way it was done . and no one has come up with any of these that are contrary, you know, except and nato's like round up the usual suspects. the very thought that somehow rushing through this to itself would cause him to grow hair. i mean, really come on. you know, i've been, has talked to, it's now over 50 years and i have to tell you some of the things that they want to get the american people to believe. i mean, how gullible do they think we are and look what they put on over to in terms of showing their rushes somehow interfered in the us selection in the presidential election was a bunch of baloney. and uh, but, you know, here in the states the people have to nod their heads. oh yes, that's what happened. no, it didn't. and, and you have to democratic party has made it a, a cardinal for example. say, you know, we have to believe this is exactly what happened. no,

it didn't happen. and that's part of the problem. our social and political reality has been restructured. you know, reality is socially constructed. it's culturally of outside of kit and verified. and we, we recreated the social reality in united states that has made russia anatomy is all based on the faucets. and so robert of kennedy's presidency will start to sort out all these lies so that we can rebuild relations with our country. that at one time we, we, we work together to secure freedom for the world during world war 2 and russian page horrible price during their war. we had many americans, soldiers lost her legs as well. you know, we're going to, we're supposed to be in the world right after that. you mentioned north stream. i

mean people go drive it fast. uh, global exclusive with, uh, cbl. uh, but i mean, if you really believe that was and no one in the administration saying anything about it this, the stabilize the energy prices may have killed tens of thousands of people in west and you are a because of the instability of, of energy prices, electricity prices during the winter, and joe biden, victoria newly jake sullivan, and add to the blinking. we'd be responsible for that then. well, there is responsibility. this is not some kind of who done it or game a clue, a she, you know, that divide and ministration. you know, did it with an explosive in the, in the deep sea? no. you look at all the facts and again, i do, i put some, uh, uh, validity to what she marsh road. you better do. and i've also written about it and stuff stack where i have my own post about the, uh, uh,

north stream event. last time you were on the show, you were talking about the corrupt media and all sorts of forces designed to bring down your congress, looking through here, let alone the presidential campaigns and robot. if kelly junior is, is father was assassinated on, on television, his uncle, of course, was, it was killed in dallas. what do you say to him has he says he wants to end forever, was a contends that joe biden may being responsible for the west to back the week of ecological terrorism because the results of the large moving emission uh, events in history. what, what does he say to you about threats to him that people remember what they did to donald trump because he didn't quite fit in. ironically, donald trump, being the person who's administration actually started the indictment against

julian, the sondra is both. it is today. well, 1st of all, the things that are your viewers should know about robert f. kennedy junior, is he is a person of great courage. is a person with an historical here. now he may not, you know, i'm not speaking for that campaign. when i say that it is my serious belief that the binding ministration was instrumental is blowing up north stream. not speaking for mr. kennedy on that, you may agree with me, but i'm not speaking from northern care. i'm saying you've written about the volt 7 documents, a, c i a documents that suggest americans of all mobile to their uh, cellphones being bugs and so on with a r f k junior. put a stop to the bugging of all their mobile phones. maybe americans live and uh, all of it stops all of the spying all of the center shipped. it ends

the constitution as far as handling the younger ones, you like to see, right? there's no question and it's about unfortunately, the constitution of the united states. something that many of us in america take as our bible and expands. there's been a sacrilege against that constitution, advantage freedom of speech, and in a sense, a central and throwing up such a shift and imprisoning whistle blowers we. we have to reclaim our constitution. and, and mr. kennedy stands for freedom courageously, has poured forth his candidacy for president of the united states is the one person who has the strength of character. whereas the moral fiber to challenge this

a, this challenge with care which is representing a style per state craft. and we, we need to move to a new era where we lived together as brothers and sisters or, or as a president and john f. kennedy weren't said we will perish in schools. and this is the challenge we have right now. if he wins the primaries against the other carrier, the aid sale, we may be fighting a drum ironic. just finally that as the by the administration is trying to to be a trump is a spike may be using the espionage act. 1917. that's use the search, right? absolutely. i mean, you know, to snare a president of the united states as a russian has a come on. i mean, i saw that at the beginning, and i said both, you know, again, bologna, you do kind of politics that, that will not even permit a person who is the president united states to the, to accord a, him, the, on

a certain amount of decency and an honor when one takes the whole to protect and defend the constitution of the united states and one on it slipped away for person purposes. it degrades our whole country. and it's all saying about president trump supposedly being a russian assa. so stupid, it's beyond belief, but they pulled it off. ok that they got a lot of americans to believe it to believe that russia somehow intervened for his election, but that election had a lot more to do with uh with james. call me made an announcement about 10 days before the general election that put uh the arc of suspicion over the campaign of hillary clinton. and she lost 2 states as a result of what company did he have more to do with tilting the result to elections than anybody. and yet they put it on on rusher because that was a continuous thing to do. so i, you know, the,

all of the game plan. yeah. and when robert f kennedy becomes president, we stop the partisan annihilation. recriminations, the polarization down to our granular level, which is even divided members of families by the way, in the states. when we find a way to nip back to the fabric of, of, of human decency and humanity so that we can be one nation again. so that we can work in the world community. recognizing the power that all nations have to determine their own state. we have a donor base is around the world. what's that about? i mean, we, that's about yesterday and tomorrow it must be about in america to take some cooperative problems and where we can have caught economic competition certainly. but the years of military competition, they have to be put aside. they have to be added. that is because the 12 is robert of kennedy. judy is gonna have to meet the man with him soon as well as joe biden, because when he was in and the rubber, they've got

a junior not being given as much ad time. arguably in these primaries for 2024. i hope you'll come back on on your candidate. thank you so much. thank you. that's it for the show. it will be back with a brand new episode on saturday, but until then you can keep in touch viable social media if it's not offensive in your country and had to watch. i know going on the run tv hon, they'll come to watch new and old episodes of going undergrad sealants that day. the the, the, the,

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[000:00:00;00] the, the welcome to was a part and take it a go. when historians where revisiting the origins of the 1st world war, the term sleepwalking became very trendy in describing how divergence actors and self serving actors tangled together to produce one of the biggest catastrophes in human history. as a world andrews, he had another period of try. always to some number lading or are we being deliberately locked into a base both to discuss that i'm now joined by benjamin avalon. both are all how the west brockport to ukraine is to add a little bit to great to see you. thank you very much for your time. thank you. thank you for having me. now the title of your book, how the was brought warranty ukraine is quite self explanatory, and unambiguous but the contrary. and then me wants to challenge it immediately because after all,

it was russia that launched this military operate can on the ukrainian soil. and this is something that both decision makers and opinion shapers in the west, a trying to frame as, as an act of aggression, a totally unprovoked act of aggression that goes against international law. and i have to say there, there's some validity to this argument. why do you think it was the was that was the main driving force behind this conflict? on one of the points i making the books is to try to distinguish between what are referred to as proximal causes. the causes that immediately proceeded to war and the different causes it can extend back in history for there's no natural starting point for 11 tries to establish as a sequence of events. so that while i make clear that the immediate cause of the war was mister food and decided to launch the war, he and his military staff or whoever else in the criminal was intimately involved with decision. and that sense laid their responsibility for initiating the war and

if the war could have been stopped and preventive at that point, then he bears responsibility. and of course, the russians bear responsibility for how the war is being carried out. what i'm focusing on the book more is not so much the proximal causes but are for it is additional causes the causes and extend further back in time that are now kind of hidden from sight that may have been on the newspaper papers. you know, the, the newspaper on the pages of the newspapers years ago and have been forgotten or they may never been on the pages of the papers at all. so it's, i'm focusing mostly on the distal causes and the causes leading up to the car in a moment. um, do you know your book? uh, remind me reminded me a bit uh this uh, 2012 best seller by christopher clark on the origins of the 1st world war uh, the sleep workers. and one of the reasons, uh, that book was so popular is because he tried to break with the old paradigm of assigning a cold for it, then focusing on the cool and the why. and instead,

he was more interested in the structural dynamics of swelling, animosity when you observe um the way the, the rounds develop on both sides of the atlantic. do you think decision makers are cognizant of how dangerous could it could be? and perhaps of the historic lessons of the previous conflicts. yeah, that's a great way of framing it with sleep walking. um, i would make just a couple of points 1st. i think i, i can't speak for the inner mind of the leaders, but just going from what statements i see being made publicly on both sides. i'm sure there's some cognizance of the threat of nuclear war and the danger of this getting out of control. i don't think there's enough and that's my fear or, or one of the fears connect with this conflict. i'll also just risk for a moment that your comments about world war one. i think very often in the west and, you know,

different people have different opinions. but i think the main street view that's coming out of washington and in the media is trying to impose the model of world war to a sort of hit or like expansionist. and unfortunately, there are even some who refer to mr. put in as a new hitler or whatever. and this is i would call she warning a past event into a, a current event into a past model. so some people refer to their progress proquest in bed. and i think that the model that people is this actually more appropriate and the greater concern is the model of world war one, where it on control the arms race between as is usually described in there's complications this, but non control arms race between britain and germany. through a series of events and a series of i part of controllable circumstances. contingencies led to the outbreak of a war that was a catastrophe. and i think there's a great danger that we may run into that kind of problem now. and it's that world war one model that needs to be attended too closely in the west and also in russia,

of course, world one uh how the united states to accumulate. they cannot make potential. and there are lots of people, not lots, but some of analysts here in moscow who believe that the americans are interested in having another global conflict as a way of overcome me, the multiplicity of comfortable, elf crises that we are facing right now. the crisis of capitalism, the crisis of global governance, ecological crisis, what have you. and i was blame that there are some historical precedents of that. i mean, i only klein's book, uh, the shock doctrine clearly demonstrates how the capitalized aims, couldn't be served by, by the use, by the sanction use of states violent ultimately, is this a conflict about the values of the bottom administration claims, or is it a conflict about resources and, you know, getting preferential,

i'm keeping preferential conditions that the united states has accumulated as a, as a head german. yeah. i, i, i don't see this conflict, so as being one of our values, that's not to say that there might not be differences in values between uh, you know, elements of us population or elements of the us leadership and elements of the russian population of the russian leadership, there may well be some differences, but i don't see it as conflict as having to do with that. i see this primarily as really, frankly, a proxy war on russia's border that is being pursued by the u. s. and then, you know, powers. i think that there it's, it's not to say that it's all poorly intensive, and i think there are probably a range of motivations. some people probably are not seeing clearly, some people are probably very well intentioned, but are imposing outdated models and incorrect models in new interpretation of events. um, but i think um,

so i think the g a strategic thing is very central. there are certainly people and elements of the us, the leads that do want to weekend russia. you know, this whole question of a unipolar world. there is concern about that is the will for it's dr and etc, etc. so i don't see that that's actually uh i, i don't like that. i don't like what's going on with respect to that. as far as the financial, the monetary issues, you know, there certainly are questions built into the background about the, the role of us dollars, the international reserve currency. there's questions of course, about, you know, how international markets work. on the extent to which i've really thought about the financial elements of this is, i do believe there's actually much truth to the concern about the military industrial complex. i'm sure your viewers are aware that this is a term that originally coined and popularized by president eisenhower. who was a 5 star world war, 2 general and hero, and in his farewell addressed to the american public. his final televised address

he wore in the american public of the combination of military, a garage. there are craddick, power and financial interest of the arms industry. and in fact, he even seemed like he was going to go so far as to bring in the question of financial conflicts of interest within congress. but was told mister president, you can't go so far. so i think that there are conflicts, financial conflicts of interest and power, conflicts of interest that have played some role in motivating the western stances towards what's happening in your book. you make the point that for 200 years of uh, the us as defense policy. it was uh, based, if not on the respect them at least paying some attention to the opponents, red lines or secure to sensibilities. and that's when it came to russia, the united states and nato disregarded this, this principle, a question number one, do you think they made that decision deliberately? was it a conscious choice? and why would they do that? given that, again, the russia is a,

is not some 3rd world country. it has nuclear weapons, it has a strong army, it has multiple resources. what do you think would be the ultimate goal of what do what they would be trying to achieve a cheerfully if they had their dreams fulfilled? yeah, uh let me just back up one step before i try to respond to that and hopefully i won't lose lose the thread of your, your actual question. as i do this, i just want to make a little clear, the notion of the geography and the red lines. and the question of, um, uh, i referred to in the book the monroe doctrine. this is a doctor in course it was it referred to as a doctor and initially, but it's based on a statement by then present. president monroe in 1823. that really as that time had to do with colonialism, but ultimately has been interpreted in different ways. having to do with the idea that a, a foreign power, that places a potential opponent to places military forces anywhere near us borders anywhere in