we need to talk conk, these we have um, a start date of the production of the r t. it says rex's and what we have doing us upgrades to is that they have been a technical working group that has produced an a location framework which these the criteria of locating the limited supply effects. and so the countries, so in this framework, we target countries which of highest need so the high but in countries and also countries that have its kitchen, vaccine delivery programs that come mid november to greens have come speak. those is because we need, at least for those, this i'm, this have to or be, i mean is that, so we have for those is administered to children at least to have the highest if the k c needed. so we need to, we are sending those back since to a we asked the highest meet. that's a rep for the segment. but coming up,

while natal claims to be a stable defense of military alliance, it's recent actions have projected instability and security the discussion next on cross task. thanks for joining in. take off the the,

[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered on peter level. nature was a peculiar organization. it claims to be defensive military lines. but at the same

time, claims it must constantly expand. add to this the alliance is quite projects, stability. in reality, it projects instability and in security and made russia, its primary enemy, the processing, the upcoming nato summit. i'm joined by my guess, nichol, i petro in kingston. he is a professor, a political science at the university of rhode island in portland, we haven't been rip, he is a freelance journalist and in london we crossed through the income mackenzie. he is a visiting lecturer at the law. school of the university of westminster are a gentleman. crosstalk roles and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want . and i always appreciate nichol. i let me go to you 1st. you know, there's been a lot of, uh, there was a lot of talk about the ukraine. so the counter offensive. and now there's a whole lot of talk about the upcoming summit and bill this of the nato summit, of course. and, but it's quite peculiar. and yeah, and i'm going to use that word. there seems to be a lot of double talk and ex, explaining what's going to happen there when nothing really much is going to happen

. they're, they're going to throw a few bones the to the ukrainians and other than that, and there's no membership in the cards. maybe even though membership ever in the future, what are your thoughts as somebody to is approaching right. i think the game is lowering expectations for ukraine. i think i'm a senior polish official and just said not to expect too much. but on the other hand, sometimes it turns out the united states to manage is through the o coersion and other on so on. pressure is to pull a rabbit out of the had it the last minute. this has happened before when it's been able to sell its own objectives in a way that seems appealing to others and then uh, hide from them of their,

their long term implications. so i'm, i'm still very wary about what this upcoming nato summit might lead to. well yeah, i think and let me go to you in london. i think nikolai, as usual, is spot on here and i'm, but what's interesting is, i mean rabbits, it'd be cool is it could be pulled out of a hat. wouldn't be really about ukraine. it would be about russia and this is what this is all about. go ahead in london. yes, that's absolutely correct. so then i agree with the last the comment that so that then you can call really expect more than the, the usual they will just simply be giving them a more promise of loans and have your nation while in the meeting. so i'm the ukrainian societies being the, you know, it's being disruptive and it's, it's, it's disruptive. it's a disruptive, a saying, as i think uh,

there's no question of the ukraine become being a member because they simply do don't fulfill any of the criteria for the sole whole map. so as you said, beats there it is about so old about russia, the evil that be explained. so um the absolutes obliteration of the crate. and as a nation states, as the, the, the, you know, the actual degradation of, um, your pin society 61 and, and european security too, because that's not being addressed here. and we've actually create more in security because you will have a revision is so you crane? i haven't, i mean, there's not a whole lot of logic involved in this here. those that want to push to give exceptions to ukraine to get into the alliance. well then there is a pay in europe and more, i mean, who in their right mind wants that go ahead and portland i think that everybody kind of has to play a game with. they all want to pretend that they wanted just for,

for our purposes. but no, i don't think anyone actually particularly wants to start a war in europe. i mean if they wanted to do that, they've had ample opportunity and they haven't done it. so i can see. ready maybe even sending in some volunteers or something like that, but i don't think it's going to be any ukraine's definitely not going to join nato . no bid. and they've made that quite clear. okay, well let's go back to nikolai and in kingston. and then what is the long term implications here? because, you know, it is a nato consent talk or a wants about future membership of ukraine. but that's the red line for russia. and that's why we have this conflict. and so, you know, it's almost kind of an echo chamber and it may tell land, okay, because the no matter what comes out to build is the russians have already made their position clear. and they're not going to budge for him. at least there's no

evidence of it go ahead. nikolai, the whole lies, not in the current leadership, political leadership in nato countries, but in their successors. there are interesting movements of support, particularly in germany, with the rise of alternative parties to prominence that are very much skeptical nato expansion. and the phrase is already been the use of forever wars that aren't going to be a burden specifically to german tax payers. and i think as germany goes, way if, if the conservative right wing in germany does come to power and sticks too. it's a skeptical agenda of on, on german foreign policy and 6 to reverse that. then i think we will show more

courage along the same lines displayed in france and italy, which is basically their right wing parties have, have caved to the nato agenda. correct? yeah, well you, i'm sorry, i'm going to have to throw your own words back at you. i mean that you as a lot of coercive power, i don't think it will allow that to happen. i think maybe i think with nato and has to worry about is colored revolutions instigated by washington. if they don't stay in line, me guys go back to our guest in, in london it's, it's very interesting the term forever war has already been brought up here. and that is, i think, really what's at play here. the mounted states doesn't want ukraine in nato, and of course it doesn't, because then it would take on obligations. but the, the status quote works for washington, just fine. they have no legal obligation, so security obligation, so to protect you, crane. but a good it'll, it'll probably russia on the behalf of many of natal. i mean, it's a perfect scenario for washington. go ahead in london. yes, it's a, it's

a terrible situation and i sealed it. so obviously russia is holding fast to it. it's always is. and they can only get more line since the previous piece over the years have been um, thrown out to the window. uh, best of luck to me. improvements in obviously, um show the records of the signed agreements. and so if russia wake sent out and i think that ukraine is on, it's the dog which is being systematically tragically destroyed in america, is just going to find a way of abandoning you. great. it's done that before to the south via the me use the stomach to the codes of the guns, and that is on the unfortunate so afraid that's a remains for, for ukraine. yeah, but not as i, i agree with our previous guess of the logic here, but this complex has been turned into an ex,

essential conflict. okay. the u. s. last in afghanistan. last and the rack last of in libya, it'd be good and it had no real collateral damage. this is a very different thing. this is the do were you know, i mean stilton berg. i've given it, extending his term here. is it said recently in the last week or so, but this is all about china now. okay. i mean, this is ex, essential, it's not just a proxy war halfway around the world in, in developing country. go ahead and portland, well land in this case, i mean, they've had this in planning for so long. you know, the, the profit asians against ukraine. go back all the way to the 1940s. it was when they, i believe it was the british you 1st made contact with the o. u in, in 1944 and they've supported the member said, so i think this one's kind of a, a bigger deal for them was 88 of waste like libya and syria. you can just kind of,

you know, throw some things out there and if it doesn't work out, you just leave. but ukraine, they've been so invested for so long, but i think it's hard for them to pull out at this weight. well, i agree here, nikolai, i mean it's all about the rules based order. it's about a european values. it's about barrels garden, i mean, they've invested a lot in this. okay. and, and it was a craven choice. i mean, the ukraine has nothing to do with your opinions security, certainly that american security, they have chosen to do this nikolai and that, that. so let me say 1st, 1st of all that everyone that america america seeks to fight and sales to it's public is an existential war. uh, as gattis dad was a war also for all the same values. and i don't think,

although we're trying very hard, we haven't quite reached the level of commitment, the resources that we, we spend, and they've got us down over more than 20 years. so these things, these, these uh bouts of uh, of imperialism, which is a recurring thing, and american foreign policy continue and, and will recur. but uh, at the end of the tunnel, i see the promise of realism, realism being simply a recognition of the facts on the ground and columbia to the glass. if i can interrupt you, do you think victorian do you think victoria no one thinks that way. and i think victoria newland is not a permanent component of the foreign policy establishment. everyone's time

is off at some point. and this particular bout with imperial expansion will have a lot of, i think a long, i don't, i hope lasting a recuperation. there will be sort of the hang over effect from this. i hope will be more dramatic then it has been for it again. well, nickel, i'm going to talk about that in the 2nd half of the program gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue. our discussion on the upcoming natal summit stays with r t the . in the

1834 france invaded algeria, and straight away the french started inhabiting it to strengthen their position. the column is known as the new arts took the best land from day one. the local population was put into an unequal position and was briefly exploited. this caused them as these guns and the people of algeria began their long term fight for independence. 1954, the banner of freedom was raised by the national liberation front. a guerrilla war against the occupants broke out. the french tried to suppress, to rebuild you in using chrome measures. whole villages were wiped out, acts of georgia and executions of civil people, including pregnant women, children and old people took place. more than 3000000 people were born into

concentration camps. however, these punitive measures didn't help. cl, jerry and patriot managed to induce france the start seas negotiations. in 1962 heavy and the cords were assigned 40 l. jerry on the bass boards independence. but this was achieved at a colossal price, algeria by rights is considered to be a country of martyrs. according to the calculations of historians, the french colonists are responsible for the debts of one and a half 1000000 algerians. the welcome act across sack, were all things are considered on peter roosevelt's remind you were discussing the upcoming nato summit the of the. okay, let's go back to our guess in a, in one in a day in k d. i'm sure you came across the article by john mearsheimer um,

titled the darkness ahead where the ukraine wore is heading. and it's a fascinating piece of writing and, and, and, and it's a big picture which everybody really wants to understand. and he, his conclusions, well i widely respect his work, but then he, there's one element here that i think could, we could have almost like an endless discussion about and is conclusion that this could end up in some kind of frozen conflict, which i find that could really kind of fascinating people mentioned the, the co, uh, cream poet peninsula. as an example i, it doesn't work for me because all of the major powers bought into, or frozen complet rush is not going to do that. your thoughts go ahead in london. uh. yeah, i think uh for sure that this is the only so that's a need. so has all of the windows be considered a strategic to feed for nato? nato has a really big ego. i mean, when it comes to russia, oh,

they have disappear already complex. here can they compromise it? this is something that nichol i was trying to bring up. keep going and london. well the big, big, big, big cat in the sense and they will try and sell it as a victory. i mean, we haven't had much about syria, which was an example of, of a frozen conflict. but the us, it's still occupied because of syria and it's imposing a terrible sanctions on it. so i would tend to agree with the, the point of view, let's russia will not find a frozen conflict, the acceptable that in goals and elements of, with agreements and russia and has led through be to experience. so one broken promise to another, you know, going back to the probably so not one mortgage east was when they drove up to the recent makes the call. busy the it'd be um, a frustrating to the agreements we visit, so let's be

a government last year. so that of, fortunately, i don't see it as being the and the goal shades the set. i don't see certain members of nato even want seeing that the site is fine with that, you know, unfortunately the, the present leadership in, in, in poland and apparently english. so roman was the mon skis portion of that. so they just come to him and should not hate russia more than they loved phones. and so i think russia is going to talk 3 times and see that the terms on the go straight to with some sort of remnants of our cars. are you trading in the reason why rob is in the box also is evan. i mean, they would talk even mentioned the minutes cuz process which was a fraud on the western side. the major players have admitted it so. okay. um, so i mean, if we're going to talk about some kind of pros and conflict, i mean that's nonsensical because then they'll just take that time to build up capacity and start the war over again. i mean, i don't,

i didn't understand the logic. i wish i could talk to mirror so i'm really like, don't understand that part of it space is go ahead and, and yeah, i mean, and we convinced it was they didn't even try there. there wasn't ever really any real desire to implement that. the ridiculous thing is, if you look back at it, how willing russia has actually been to make a deal on all this had they have made the deal to that or as johnson killed, i mean brochure was actually willing to give up way to watts in that deal of what they have that we did. and so as the war goes on, their position is only going to get worse and worse and worse and worse. because obviously the ukrainians can actually dislodge the russian army from where they're at. and so the longer the way the worst cities negotiations are going to get nikolai, it's very interesting if we look at what the,

what was negotiated in this them, bull, it's fascinating. the landscape was asked to give up what he didn't have. i mean, it's remarkable. he didn't have the don bass, he didn't have the crime in. he was asked to give up what he didn't have. and now we're looking at. we are nikolai, as well. the bottom line for me is that the outcome of the negotiation will be set by the st. you with the military situation on the ground. and right now everyone is still jockeying for position and this has been going on for a long time. you're beginning to read things about how in, in american newspapers, how zalinski is, is recognizing that he may not be able to achieve victory. and all these accounts,

these narratives are setting up the various constituencies in the west to make concessions, whether they want to or not. because once the counter offensive, assuming it, it runs its course and is ultimately unsuccessful. at that point, all the cards are in rushes, hands and the decision will have to be taken on rush aside to advance or just stop. at that point it becomes an imperative for the west. negotiate this. go back to our guest and one to do by that because of the way i look at it is here is that we and it's already been mentioned on our program here is, has been a lot, but a lot of lies and deceit here. the russians, i think, for unilaterally decide when it's over your thoughts. well that's, that's my minus thinking. the as well. i think um they have no problem there,

so to speak, to the go shake with. and they are surrounded by um, trying to intransigence. it seems to me that's um they have to go out to reclaim and whatever is left of the, the clear, the independent down best regions. they might go as far as or data and they will have to then be confronted if need to then besides to uh, send in the police troops officially, which would be a dis oscar for everybody. but so i don't see uh this. um, as i see, does it say any point, you know, you know, going back to a previous point that, that, that, that was made. but at some point, this is one of these last that too much for the west. the amount of money being called in to ukraine, the expense of the defeat will no longer be able to be to be caught up. and that is

when courageous people in politics and academia monitor population will need to come forward and really get rid of. it's not just about be to renew it and it's about people who shared the same ideology as a really need to be a focus on, in the public disclose in the united states. and they really need to be gotten rid of. yeah, i haven't, i, they've the people that i dance guy was i talking about. they don't exist. okay. they've been marginalized, they've been cancelled, and they're all moving puppets. okay. i wish we could wish that was a track, but i don't see it because so much hubris is on the line right now. again, this is, you know, they, they did this to themselves. they ratio themselves into this. go ahead in portland . yeah, i mean, and if you look at the history of the people that are involved here it's, it's, it's hard because you will get to bite. and i mean, he has had a long career and american politics at this point. and at this point, he has been pro war every time he's been pro war with every what he was pro

vietnam, he was pro, into this lobby. a i rack in afghanistan were as much as creation is anybody else is i still remember him sitting at the table next to george w bush saying that saddam had weapons of mass destruction 45 minutes away from being launched. and so how do you negotiate with this man? how do you need to go say any but how do you negotiate with this mentality of this world view, this ideology, that's the problem. you, nikolai, we're rapidly running out of time. but you always have a word of optimism in, you've already kind of touched upon it. i mean, you talked about realism here. i wish we could have realism here, because you know what, europe and russia are neighbors and they're going to be neighbors for a very long time to come. go ahead nicholas. and there will, there is an establishment. there is a deep state, but there is also,

there are also alternatives to them. they keep springing up and those will not go away either. i'm not, i don't know when or if they will try them. but certainly their voices are becoming more and more heard. a bye bye all i think, and that's a that is a reason for optimism in the long run. okay, well, i mean, what is the long run here? because, i mean, can you do see, what do you see the west accepting russian security interest? i mean, that's what this is all about. i mean, the russians, it's all black and white. it was on december 17th. the, you know, the months before the conflict, i mean, everybody knows what russia wants, can they, can they accepted, denying it all the way they will effectively accepted. okay. that okay, let's go to one. did you buy that? do you think that they could, i mean this is eating so much crow. okay. this is not afghanistan, it's not a rock. it's not libya,

it's different. go ahead in london. i think the bill bill bill try and sell its a as a victory. whatever happens um, but uh, i kind of lets see russia bought a bunch in the deal. collins like streamline tries agenda along with the american exceptionally since the military industry still pop tried for made something with china, another dangerous adventure, but they will try and divert attention from your brain ultimate. okay, so what looks to be a certain degree. okay. every we have one, we have one minute left. so this i, i have the solution for the neil columns and the victoria new ones of the worm. how to get out of this. and it goes something like, it's, well, at least the russians didn't make i to paris. we won. that's what they're going to do. go ahead and portland. yeah, i mean, i'm sure that they'll come up with some sort of a scenario that the americans are very good at that they still like to say that they want in vietnam to you know,

we killed so many more of them. that means we won the war, but, you know, they'll, they'll just come up with something. i'm sure either that or they'll just started another war similar else. that's what they usually do. well it's, it's very interesting because these are leads that you are easily entertainment into intangible to in the west. the may seem to be more apt to creating problems and solving any problems over the last 50 years or so gentlemen. that's all the time we have a one to think, my guess in portland kingsland and in london. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. remember across the the public sentence. and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my

new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do the have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you which i thought that was the little thing interested us. the sluggard artist could right now let you and they thought clearing the style at the post, the, the, the at the is that i, that's a get a minute come, other students need, which is easy to saw on the screen. so as i said, showing material which is the monument i'm willing to identify july,

the 2nd is ordered by muscles that are well in the middle of something in the widget presidents and not the degree that the results between you and they will just dealing with a solution for sure, and i'm comfortable with which, which, which insidiously sent him the process the, the russian army game strong holds on the front lines of the ukrainian complex. that has to have calls out nato for not doing enough to meet its security demand. it's dave, 2 of the us treasury secretaries visits of china as trade and chip wars ramp up between washington and big big box for