billing, they all get the quote enhanced crops would prevent the farmers and figure produces from operating for g. m a free choices. i think there's no scientific consensus on the safety of these new products, which they claim are being pushed by. well, profit seeking corporations. we spoke with owed a henry of public affairs analyst. i'm a little bit into how both i got from the university of i'm a who gave us the take on the issue in the account uh, this one shortages, but the, the loan that we have when i fix the sim, i, the ones that human beings that's what we're waiting to see shows and denzil option for human species. and also i didn't was i don't think it is going to be beneficial for us to go grab juice. and uh, you might be planning it'd be, don't that was done. that's because the kind of policy that that is on. yeah. has to be restricted by your bed is unity. so not to upset jim was uh,

it seems like uh you know, uh, weights for example means this pressure is going to be because the level for the security to that is, you know, we started chasing. i think this is the pro fees and the thing about people um, because um, if it goes to about uh, you know, people of those companies come on growth in the business, locked it up and roll gainesville, just like sports due to 0. but unfortunately, it is because the, the, my personal stuff is pointing to the age ranges. i forgot pharmacy to ask for a space on the shelves. we have to be conscious of the following gene health, classic quantities of whatever the policy is done. what kind of would you please

with regards to tons of coal breeding of pop was off 3rd option on the end result teaches for human consumption. when you're looking at this issues, you are not allowed to look at the local economy of most of the economy shows that i feel strongly. i was going to this uh, west western countries, full financial aid and so forth. and then when this happens, you know, this financial aid, some supposed to come with terms and conditions, the solution stone will be provided by the end of the deal with must be commuting all, giving advice to another problem. set this multinational most for delivery job to make more money or was mentioning about before we go here on how to international that a g m. o fluids or genetically modified foods are officially band here in the russian

federation. thanks for joining us about the top of the the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, nato. it's a peculiar organization. it claims to be defensive military lines, but at the same time claims it must constantly expand. add to this, the alliance is quite to project stability. in reality, it projects instability and in security and made russia, its primary enemy, the

processing, the upcoming nato summit. i'm joined by my guess, nichol, i petro in kingston. he is a professor of political science at the university of rhode island in portland, we haven't been rip, he is a freelance journalist and in london we crossover a day in code mackenzie. he is a visiting lecturer at the law. school of the university of westminster are a gentleman. crosstalk roles and the fact that means you can jump any time you want . and i always appreciate nichol. i let me go to you. first of, you know, there's been a lot of, uh, there was a lot of talk about the ukraine. so got counter offensive. and now there's a whole lot of talk about the upcoming summit and build this of the nato summit, of course. and, but it's quite cute or i yeah, i'm going to use that word. there seems to be a lot of double talk and it's explaining what's going to happen there when nothing really much is going to happen. they're, they're going to throw a few bones the to the ukrainians and other than that, and there's no membership in the cards, maybe, and no membership ever in the future. what are your thoughts as somebody to is

approaching right. i think the game is lowering expectations for ukraine. i think i'm a senior polish official and just said not to expect too much. but on the other hand, sometimes it turns out the united states to manage is through the o coersion and other on the phone pressures to pull a rabbit out of the had at the last minute. this has happened before when it's been able to sell its own objectives in a way that seems appealing to others and then uh, hide from them of their, their long term implications. so i'm, uh, i'm still very wary about what this upcoming nato summit might lead to. well, they didn't let me go to you in london. i think nikolai, as usual,

is spot on here and i'm, but what's interesting is i the rabbits. it'd be cool. it could be pulled out of a had, wouldn't be really about ukraine. it would be about russia. and this is what this is all about. go ahead and wanted. yes, that's absolutely correct. so then i agree with the last a comment that so that then you can call really expect more than the, the usual they will just simply be giving them a more promise of loans and i have your nation while in the meeting. so i be the ukrainian societies being the, you know, it's being disruptive and it's, it's, it's disruptive. it's a disruptive a thing, as i think a base no question of the ukraine become being a member, because they simply do don't fulfill any of the criteria for the so called math. so as you said, these are, it is about so old about russia,

even at the expense. so the absolutes obliteration of the crate. and as a nation states, and the me, the, you know, the actual degradation of, um, your p in society. so go ahead and add your fee and security to because that's not being addressed here. and we've actually create more in security because you will have a revision is. so ukraine, i haven't, i mean there's not a whole lot of logic involved in this here. those that want to push to give exceptions to ukraine to get into the alliance. well then there is a pay in europe and more, i mean, who in their right mind wants that go ahead and portland i think that everybody kind of has to play a game where they all want to pretend that they wanted just for oral purposes, but no i don't think anyone actually particularly wants to start a war in europe. i mean if they wanted to do that, they've had ample opportunity and they haven't done it. so i could see. ready would

maybe even sending in some volunteers or something like that, but i don't think it's going to be any ukraine's definitely not going to join nato . no bid. and they've made that quite clear. okay, well let's go back to nikolai and kingston, and then what is the long term implications here? because, you know, it is a nato consent talk all or a wants about future membership of ukraine. but that's the red line for russia. and that's why we have this conflict. and so, you know, it's almost kind of an echo chamber and it may tell land, okay, because the no matter what comes out to build is the russians have already made their position clear. and they're not going to budge from at least there's no evidence of it go ahead. nikolai, the hope lies not in the current leadership, political leadership in nato countries, but in their successors. there are interesting movements of support,

particularly in germany with the rise of. busy tentative parties to prominence that are very much skeptical of nato expansion. and the phrase is already been the use of forever wars that aren't going to be a burden specifically to german tax payers. and i think as germany goes, so if, if the conservative right wing and germany does come to power and sticks to its skeptical agenda of on, on german foreign policy and 6 to reverse that. then i think we will show more courage along the same lines displayed in france and italy, which is basically their right wing parties have, have caved to the nato agenda. correct? yeah, well you, i'm sorry, i'm going to have to throw your own words back at you. i mean that you as

a lot of coercive power, i don't think it will allow that to happen. i think maybe i think with nato and has to worry about is colored revolutions instigated by washington. if they don't stay in line, me guys go back to our guest in, in london it's, it's very interesting the term forever war has already been brought up here. and that is, i think, really what's at play here. the mountain states doesn't want ukraine in nato, and of course it doesn't, because then it would take on obligations. but the, the status quote works for washington, just fine. they have no legal obligation, so security obligation, so to protect you, crane. but it'll, it'll look like russia on the behalf of all of nate. i mean, to perfect scenario for washington. go ahead in london. yes, it's a, it's a terrible situation and i sealed it. so obviously russia is holding fast to weeks . it gets its policies and they can only get more line since the previous piece over the years have been um,

thrown out the window. uh best of luck to be approved to obviously um, show the records of the signed agreements. and so if russia way sent out and i think the ukraine is on, it's the dog which is being systematically and try to be destroyed. and america is just going to find a way of abandoning you. great. it's done that before to the south via the me is starting to the codes of the guns, and that is also the unfortunate fate, but the remains for, for ukraine. yeah. but that as i, i agree with our previous guess of the logic here. but this complex has been turned into an ex, essential conflict. okay? b u. s. last in afghanistan. last and the rack last of in libya, it'd be good and it had no real collateral damage. this is a very different thing. this is to do were, you know, i mean stilton berg. i've given it, extending his term here. it is,

it said recently in the last week or so, but this is all about china now. okay. i mean, this is ex, essential. it's not just a proxy war halfway around the world in, in developing country. go ahead and portland, well, and in this case, i mean, they've had busy planning for so long. you know, the, the provocation is against ukraine. go back all the way to the 1940s. it was wednesday. i believe it was the british you 1st made contact with the o u n. in 1944 and they've supported the members status. so i think this one's kind of a, a bigger deal for them was 88 of waste, like libya and syria. you can just kind of, you know, throw some things out there. and if it doesn't work out, she just leave. but ukraine, they've been so invested for so long that i think it's hard for them to pull out if there's weight. well, i agree here nikolai,

i mean it's all about the rules based order. it's about a european values. it's about barrels garden, i mean, they've invested a lot in this. okay. and, and it was a craven choice. i mean, the ukraine has nothing to do with european security, certainly that american security, they have chosen to do this nikolai. and that, that. so let me say 1st, 1st of all, that every war that america america seeks to fight and sales to its public is an existential war. as gattis, dad was a war also for all the same values. and i don't think, although we're trying very hard, we haven't quite reached the level of commitment the resources that we, we spent and they've got us down over more than 20 years. so these things these, these. busy bouts of uh, of imperialism, which is

a recurring thing in american foreign policy. continue and, and will recur. but, uh, at the end of the tunnel, i see the promise of realism. realism being simply a recognition of the facts on the ground and columbia. to clarify, if i can interrupt you, do you think victorian, do you think victoria knew in things that way? i think victoria newland is not a permanent component of the foreign policy establishment. everyone's time is off at some point and this particular bout with imperial expansion will have a lot of i think a long i don't, i hope lasting. um, because

a recuperation there will be sort of the hang over the effect from this. i hope will be more dramatic then it has been for it again. well, nickel, i'm going to talk about that in the 2nd half of the program gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the upcoming nato summit stage with r t, the, [000:00:00;00] the, a highly the, let's see, the, with the temperature, these 3 degree higher already from the neighboring down woods. you know, why? because the other townships, having chucked up the trees,

but didn't type guy in the name of development, and he's our 1st to become a skeptical like a single we are all going for our, the nice issue then just covering all the grieves we've gone. so when you distract nature, it takes everything just the the the,

the welcome back, the cross. ok, we're all things are considered. i'm peter, isabel. true mind you were discussing the upcoming nato summit. the okay, let's go back to our guests in england and they, inc, i, i'm sure you came across the article by john mearsheimer. um, titled the darkness ahead where the ukraine more is heading. and it's a fascinating p, a piece of writing and, and, and, and it's a big picture which everybody really wants to understand. and he get his conclusions. i widely respect his work. but then he, there's one element here that i think we could have almost like an endless discussion about and is conclusion that this could end up in some kind of frozen conflict, which i find that could really kind of fascinating. people mentioned the, the co, a korean poet peninsula. as an example i,

it doesn't work for me because all of the major powers bought into, or frozen complet rush is not going to do that. your thoughts go ahead and london? yeah, i think uh for sure that this is the only, so that's a main so has of, uh, when this be considered a strategic to feed for nato, nato has a really big ego. i mean, when it comes to russia, oh, they have disappear already complex here. can they compromise? this is something that nikolai was trying to bring up. keep going in london. well, the big, big, big, big cat in a sense, and they will try and sell it as a victory. i mean, we haven't had much about syria, which was an example of, of, of a frozen conflict. but the us is still occupied parts of syria and it's imposing a terrible sanctions on it. so i would tend to agree with the, the point of view, let's um, russia will not find a frozen conflict. the acceptable that in goals and elements of,

of the agreements and russia and has led through be to experience. so one broken promise to another, you know, going back to the probably so not, not one mortgage east was for late. so up to the recent uh, mexico. busy busy the it'd be um, a frustrating to the agreements we visit. so let's be a government last year. so that of, fortunately, i don't see it as being the goal shades of the set, but i don't see certain members of the dates. so even want to not be inside this 5 is that, you know, unfortunately be present leadership in, in, in poland and apparently english sofa roland was the, was skis, a portion of that. so they just come from insurance not to paid russian or more than the low voltage. so i think russia is going to talk to times and see that terms on the go straight to with some sort of remnants of our, of our you, craig,

in a really well robins. and also if there was no evidence, i mean it's our even mentioned the minutes good process, which was a fraud on the western side. the major players have admitted it's okay. so i mean, if we're going to talk about some kind of frozen conflict, i mean, that's nonsensical because then they'll just take that time to build up capacity and start the war over again. i mean, i don't, i didn't understand the logic. i wish i could talk to mirror so i'm really like, don't understand that part of this piece is go ahead and, and yeah, i mean, and which means it was, they didn't even try there. there wasn't ever really any real desire to implement that. the ridiculous thing is, if you look back at it, how willing russia has actually been to make a deal, what all this had, they have made the deal that the order is johnson kill diabetes. russia was actually willing to give up, wait

a lot in that deal of what they have that we've it. and so as the war goes on, their position is only going to get worse and worse and worse and worse. because obviously the ukrainians can actually dislodge the russian army for where they're at. and so the longer the way the worst cities negotiations are going to get nikolai, it's very interesting if we look at what the, what was negotiated in this down bowl. it's fascinating, the landscape was asked to give up what he didn't have. i mean, it's remarkable. he didn't have the don bass. it didn't have the crime in. he was asked to give up what he didn't have. and now we're looking at, we are the gloss as well. the bottom line for me is that the outcome of the negotiation will be set by the scituate, the military situation on the ground. and right now everyone is still jockeying for

position as this has been going on for a long time. you're beginning to read things about how in, in american newspapers, how zalinski is, is recognizing that he may not be able to achieve victory. and all these accounts, these narratives are setting up the various constituencies in the west to make concessions, whether they want to or not. because once the counter offensive, assuming it, it runs its course and is ultimately unsuccessful. at that point, all the cards are in russia's hands, and the decision will have to be taken on russia side to advance or just stop. and at that point, it becomes an imperative for the west. negotiate this,

go back to our guest and one to do by that because of the way i look at it is here is a way and it's already been mentioned on our program here is it's been a lot, but a lot of lies and deceit here. the russians, i think, well, unilaterally decide when it's over your thoughts. well that's, that's uh my mind is thinking that as well, i think, um they have no problem there, so to speak, to the go shake with. and they are surrounded by um, trying to intransigence. um, it seems to me that's um they have to go on out to reclaim whatever is left of the declared independence, donald bess regions they might go as far as or desa and they will have to then the be confronted if made so then besides to uh, sending the police troops officially, which would be a dis oscar for everybody, but so i don't see uh this. um,

as i said, as a turning point, you know, you know, going back to a previous point that, that, that, that was made. but at some point, this is one of these last that too much for the west. the amount of money being called in to ukraine. the expense of the defeat will no longer be able to be, to be covered, the bodies when courageous people in politics and academia monitor population will need to come forward and really get rid of. it's not just about be to renew it. and it's about people who shared the same ideology as a really needs to be a focus on in the public schools in the united states. and they really needs to be gotten rid of. yeah i, i've been, i the people that, um, i didn't think i was i talking about. they don't exist. okay. they've been marginalized, they've been cancelled, and they're all potent puppets. okay. i wish we could wish that was a track, but i don't see it because so much hubris is on the line right now. again, this is, you know, they,

they did this to themselves. they ratio themselves into this. go ahead in portland . yeah, i mean, and if you look at the history of the people that are involved here it's, it's, it's hard because you will get job. i didn't, i mean, he has had a long career in american politics at this point. and at this point, he has been pro war every time he's been pro war with every one. he was pro vietnam, he was pro, into this lobby. a i rack in afghanistan were as much as creation is anybody else is i still remember him sitting at the table next to george w bush saying that saddam had weapons of mass destruction, 45 minutes away from being launched. and so how do you negotiate with this man? how do i need to go say any but how do you negotiate with this mentality of this world view, this ideology, that's the problem here. nichol. i were rapidly running out of time, but you always have

a word of optimism in you've already kind of touched upon it. i mean, you talked about realism here. i wish we could have realism here, because you know what, europe and russia are neighbors and they're going to be neighbors for a very long time to come. go ahead nicholas. and there will, there is an establishment. there is a deep state, but there is also, there are also alternatives to them. they keep springing up and those will not go away either. i'm not, i don't know when or if they will try them. but certainly their voices are becoming more and more heard. a bye bye all i think, and that's a that is a reason for optimism in the long run. okay, well, i mean, what is the long run here? because, i mean, can you do see, what do you see the west accepting russian security interest? i mean, that's what this is all about. i mean, the russians, it's all black and white. it was on december 17, the, you know,

the months before the conflict. i mean, everybody knows what russia wants, can they, can they accepted? denying it all the way they will effectively accept it. okay. okay, let's go to one. did you buy that? do you think that they could? i mean this is eating so much crow. okay. cuz this is not as bad as that. it's not a rock, it's not libya, it's different. go ahead in london. i think they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll try and sell it. so as a victory, whatever happens um, but uh, i kind of see rush, i bought the budget and the deal, collins, they are extremely intransigence along with the american exceptionally since the military industry. still prop, tried for made something with china, another dangerous adventure, but they will try and divert attention from your brain ultimate. okay, so what looks to be a certain degree, okay, ever. we have one, we have one minute left. so this i,

i have the solution for the neil columns and the victoria new ones of the worm. how to get out of this. and it goes something like, it's, well, at least the russians didn't make i to paris. we won. that's what they're going to do. go ahead and portland yeah, i mean i'm sure that they'll come up with some sort of a scenario that the americans are very good at that they still like to say that they want in vietnam to you know, we killed so many more of them. that means we won the war, but, you know, they'll, they'll just come up with something. i'm sure either that or they'll just started another war similar else. that's what they usually do. well it's, it's very interesting because these are leads that you are easily entertainment into intangible to in the west. that may seem to be more apt to creating problems and solving any problems over the last 50 years or so gentlemen. that's all the time we have a one to think, my guess in portland kingsland and in london. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time. remember across

the nation we deal low exposure to you guys to start the new issue. a vehicle currently in the motion store slid or the for the money is and dumb of the school in which it seems to stay on

the the top headlines right now with autism smells the bite and white house is placed the dispatch deadly plus the bottoms to ukraine, munitions, that germany is opposed to a sudden thing. well, nato maintains a neutral and stones radioactive water is set to be pumped off the coast of japan. as a china comes down on the sea food import those details up and coming beyond knoxville or in the manner in which a lot of other countries are they have already model economic objectives. india is