the the, [000:00:00;00] the at the end of the 18th century britain began the illegal opium trade in china. this hard drug causing addiction and literally destroying the human body became a gold mine, or businessman from the foggy l. b. and however, the ruling chinese dream dynasty tried to resist and to stop the illegal trade, which provoked the wrath of the london business community. in 1840 without a declaration of war. the english fleet began to seize and plunder jr. i'm dead for

lead drain. chinese army was unable to provide adequate resist. the g empire was forced to hand hong, gone over to england, and open it sports board trading the legal good. in 1856 branch and the united states joined in the robbery of china. the anglo french troops defeated the chinese occupied basing and committed an unprecedented robbery. destroyed and blundered the wealth of the un menu one palace. the defeat of the jing dynastee and the do opium wars fled to the transformation of the celestial empire into a semi colony of european states and started the age of humiliation. and the sale of opium took on colossal proportions and led to the horrible depths of millions of ordinary chinese. the l. look forward to

talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we have such orders at conflict with the 1st law show we live in to the patient. we should be very careful about visual intelligence. at the point, obviously is to shop with artificial intelligence. we have somebody with them and the robot most for such as phone existence was only exists, the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered. non peter live out

nature. it's a peculiar organization. it claims to be defensive military lines. but at the same time, claims it must constantly expand. add to this, the alliance is quite projects, stability. in reality, it projects instability and in security and made russia, its primary enemy, the processing, the upcoming nato summit. i'm joined by my guess, nichol. i petro in kingston. he is a professor of political science at the university of rhode island in portland, we haven't been ripped. he is a freelance journalist and in london we crossed the income mackenzie. he is a visiting lecturer at the law school of the university of westminster are a gentleman crosstalk roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate nichol. i let me go to you. first of, you know, there's been a lot of, uh, there was a lot of talk about the ukraine. so got counter offensive. and now there's a whole lot of talk about the upcoming summit and bill this of the nato summit,

of course. and, but it's quite peculiar and yeah, and i'm going to use that word. there seems to be a lot of double talk and ex, explaining what's going to happen there when nothing really much is going to happen . they're, they're going to throw a few bones to uh, to the ukrainians and other than that. and there's no membership in the cards. maybe no membership ever in the future. what are your thoughts as somebody to is that pro? right. i think the game is lowering expectations for ukraine. i think i'm a senior polish official and just said not to expect too much. but on the other hand, sometimes it turns out the united states manages through the whole of coersion and other on so on. pressure is to pull a rabbit out of a hat at the last minute. this has happened before when it's been able to

sell its own objectives in a way that seems appealing to others and then uh, hide from them of their, their long term implications. so i'm, uh, i'm still very wary about what this upcoming nato summit might lead to. well, they didn't let me go to you in london. i think nikolai, as usual, is spot on here and i'm, but what's interesting is, i mean rabbits, it'd be cool. it could be pulled out of a hat. wouldn't be really about ukraine. it would be about russia, and this is what this is all about. go ahead and wanted. yes, that's absolutely correct. so then i agree with the last the comment that they, they, then you can call really expect more than the, the usual they will just simply be giving them a more promise of loans. and that munition while in the meantime, the ukrainian societies being the, you know, it's being disruptive. it's

a disruptive, a saying, as i think uh, there's no question of the ukraine become being a member because they simply do don't fulfill any of the criteria for the sole whole map. so as you said, be terry, it is about so old about russia and even at the expense of the absence obliteration of the crate. and as a nation states and the, the, you know, the actual degradation of, um, uh, european society and, and, and europe and security too, because that's not being addressed here. and we've actually create more in security because you will have a revisionist, so ukraine, i haven't, i mean, there's not a whole lot of logic involved in this here. those that want to push to give exceptions to ukraine to get into the alliance. well then there is a pay in europe and more, i mean, who in their right mind wants that go ahead and portland i think that everybody

kind of has to play a game where they all want to pretend that they wanted just for oral purposes, but no i don't think anyone actually particularly wants to start a war in europe. i mean if they wanted to do that, they've had ample opportunity and they haven't done it. so i can see. ready maybe even sending in some volunteers or something like that, but i don't think it's going to be any ukraine's definitely not going to join nato, no bid. and they've made that quite clear. okay, well let's go back to nikolai and is the long term implications here because, you know, it is a nato consent talk color or a wants about a future membership of ukraine. but that's the red line for russia. and that's why we have this conflict, almost kind of an echo chamber and in may till land. okay? because the no matter what comes out to bill is the russians and already made their

position clear. and they're not going to budge from at least there's no evidence. the hope lies, not in the current leadership, political leadership in nato countries, but in their successors. there are interesting movements of support, particularly in germany, with the rise of alternative parties to prominence that are very much skeptical of nato expansion. and the phrase is already been the use of forever wars that are going to be a burden specifically to german tax payers. oh, so if, if the conservative right wing in germany does come to power and sticks to its um, skeptical agenda of on, on german foreign policy and 6 to reverse that. then i think we will show more courage along the same lines displayed in francy there. right?

wing parties have have caved to the nato agenda, correct? yeah, well yeah, i'm sorry. i'm going to have to throw your own words back at you. i mean that you as a lot of coercive power, i don't think it will allow that to happen. i think maybe i, they wouldn't nato and has to worry about is colored revolutions and a in line. let me get his go back it's, it's very interesting the term forever war has already been brought up here. and that is, i think, really what's at play here. the mountain states doesn't want and ukraine in nato. and of course it doesn't because then it would take, um, i'll put nations, but the, the status quote works for washington, just fine. they have no legal obligation. um security obligation, so to protect you crane, but a it'll, it'll look like russia on the behalf of an of nate to, i mean, to perfect scenario for washington. go ahead in london. yes, it's a, it's a curb. so obviously russia is holding fast to it. it's,

it's always is and they can only get more line since the previous piece over to years have been um, thrown out to the window. uh, best of luck to be improvements in the obviously, of all of the signed agreements. and so if russia weighs sent out and i think the ukraine is on, it's the dog which is being systematically and tried to be destroyed. and america is just going to find a way of abandoning you. great. it's done that before to the south via the me use the stomach to the codes of the guns, and that is also the unfortunate remains for, for ukraine. yeah, but as i, i agree with our previous guess of the logic here, but this complex has been turned into an ex, essential conflict. okay. the u. s. last in afghanistan. last and the rack last of in libya, it'd be good and it had no real collateral damage. this is a very different thing. this is to do or, you know, i mean stilton berg. i've given

a extending has certainly in the last week or so. but this is all about china now. okay. i mean, this is ex, essential, it's not just a proxy war halfway around the world in, in developing country. go ahead in portland, well, land in this case. i mean, they've had this in planning for so long. you know, the, the provocation is against ukraine. go back all the way to the 1940s. it was when they, i believe it was the bread issue, 1st made contact with the o. u in, in 1944. and they've supported the members sense. so i think this one is kind of a bigger deal for them as you can just kind of you know, throw some things out there and if it doesn't work out, she just leave put ukraine. they've been so invested for so long. but i think it's hard for them to pull out at this weight. well, i agree here nikolai,

i mean it's all about the rules based order. it's about a european values. it's about barrels, garden, i mean, they've invested a lot in this. okay. and, and it was a craven choice. i mean the ukraine has nothing to do with european security, certainly that american security, they have chosen to do this nikolai and that. but so let me say 1st, 1st of all that everyone that america america seeks to fight and sales to it's public is an existential war. uh, as gattis dad was a war also for all the same values. and i don't think, although we're trying very hard, we haven't quite reached the level of commitment, the resources that we, we spent, and they've got us down over more than 20 years. so these things, these, these of a bouts of uh, of imperialism, which is

a recurring thing in american foreign policy. continue and, and we'll recur, but uh, at the end of the tunnel. i see the promise of realism, realism being simply a recognition of the facts on the ground and told them they couldn't find me if i can interrupt you. do you think victorian, do you think victoria knew in things that way? and i think victoria newland is not a permanent component of the foreign policy establishment. everyone's time is off at some point. and this particular bout with imperial expansion will have a lot of, i think a long, i don't, i hope lasting. i called a recuperation, there will be sort of the hang over effect from this has been for it again as well

. nickel. i'm going to talk about that in the 2nd half of the program gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the upcoming nato summit stage with r t, the

i leaving the city with the temperature is 3 degree higher already from the neighboring down woods. you know, why? because i think townships having chucked up the trees. but didn't type guy in the name of development, and he's our 1st to become a capital. we are all going to or organizations and just covering all the grieves we've gone through. so when you distract me a chair, it takes everything just the parts clean with you, whatever you do, do not seriously watch something that's so different whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do straight, because i'm probably going to make you,

it's called direction. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you say. welcome back to the cross. ok, we're all things are considered. i'm peter in the mail to remind you, we're discussing the upcoming nato summit. the in a, in more than a day inc. i, i'm sure you came across the article by john mearsheimer um, titled the darkness ahead where the ukraine war is heading. and it's a fascinating b, a piece of writing and, and, and, and it's a big picture which everybody really wants to understand. and he, to his conclusions where i widely respect his work. but then he, there's one element here that i think could, we could have almost like an endless discussion about and is conclusion that this could end up in some kind of frozen conflict,

which i find that could really kind of fascinating. people mentioned the, the co, a korean poet peninsula. as an example i, it doesn't work for me because all of the major powers bought into, or frozen complet rush is not going to do that. your thoughts go ahead and london? yeah, i think uh for sure that this is the only so that's a main so has of, uh, with this be considered a strategic the feed for nato. nato has a really big ego. i mean, when it comes to russia, oh, they have disappear already complex here. can they compromise? this is something that nikolai was trying to bring up. keep going in london. well, the big, big, big, big pad in a sense, and they will try and sell it as a victory. i mean, we haven't had much about syria, which won't late, but the us, it's still occupied a parts of syria and it's imposing a terrible sanctions on it. so i would tend to agree with the, the point of view, let's russia will not find a frozen conflict,

the acceptable that in goals and elements of, with agreements and russia. and has led through be to experience one broken promise to another, you know, going back to the probably so not one mortgage east was for late. so up to the recent makes the. busy the it'd be um, a frustrating to the agreements uh we visit, so let's be a government last year. so um that of fortunately i don't see it as being the and they don't see certain members of the date. so even want seeing that the site is fine. with that, you know, unfortunately the, the present leadership, they've been told and apparently english. so roman was the, was skis, a portion of that. so they just come to him and should not hate russia more than they loved codes. so i think russia is going to talk the towns and see that the

terms on the go straight to with some sort of remnants of our, of our you, craig, in a really well, rob is in the box also is dale evans. i mean, it's already been mentioned in a fraud on the western side. the may, your players have admitted it so. okay. um, so i mean, if we're going to talk about some kind of frozen conflict, i mean, that's nonsensical because then they'll just take that time to build up capacity and start the war over again. i mean, i don't, i didn't understand the logic. i wish i could talk to mirror so i'm really like, don't understand that part of this piece is go ahead and, and yeah, they didn't even try there. there wasn't ever really any real desire to implement that. the ridiculous thing is, if you look back at it, how willing russia has actually been to make a deal a lot. all this had they have made the deal that the forest johnson kill diabetes brochure was actually willing to give up. wait

a lot in that deal of what they have that we did. and so as the war goes on, their position is only going to get worse and worse and worse and worse. because obviously the ukrainians can actually dislodge the russian army from where they're at. and so the longer they way the worst that a negotiations are going to get nikolai, it's very interesting if we look at what the, what was negotiated in this stem bull. it's fascinating. zalinski was asked to give up what he didn't have. i mean, it's remarkable. he didn't have the don bass, it didn't have the crime in. he was asked to give up what he did now. and now we're looking at, we are nikolai. well, the bottom line for me is that the outcome of the negotiations will be set by the scituate, the military situation on the ground. and right now everyone is still jockeying for

position as this has been going on for a long time. you're beginning to read things about how in, in american newspapers, how of zillion sizing that he may not be able to achieve victory. and all these accounts, these narratives are setting up the various constituencies in the west to make concessions, whether they want to or not. because once the counter offensive, assuming it, it runs its course and is ultimately unsuccessful. at that point marcia's hands and the decision will have to be taken on russia side to advance, or just stop. at that point, it becomes an imperative for the west. negotiate this, go back to our guest and wanting to do by that because of the way i look at it is

here is a way and it's already been mentioned on our program here is, has been a lot, but a lot of lies and deceit here. the russians, i think, well, unilaterally decide when it's over your thoughts. well that's, that's uh my mind is thinking that as well, i think, um, they have no problem there, so to speak, to the go shake with. and they are surrounded by, um it tries you intransigence. um they have to go out to um, reclaim um, uh, whatever is left of the declared independence, donald bess regions they might go as far as or desa and uh they will have to then uh, become from seems to uh send in the police troops officially, which would be in these oscar for everybody but um, i don't see uh this um, as i said, as a turning point, you know, you know, going back to a previous point that, that, that, that was made. but at some point,

this is one of these last that too much for the west. the amount of money, the expense of the defeat will no longer be able to be to be covered up and bodies when courageous people in politics and academia monitor population will need to come forward and really get rid of as much as it might be to renew their needs about people who shared the same idea all that they really needed to be focused on in the public disclose in the united states, and they really need to be gotten rid of. yeah, i, i've been, i the people that i did, the guy was i talking about. they don't exist. ok. they've been marginalized, they've been cancelled, and they're all folding puppets. okay. i wish we could wish that was a track, but i don't see it because so much hubris is all know me though they, they did this to themselves. they ratio themselves into this. go ahead and portland . yeah, i mean, and if you look at the history of the people that are involved here, it's, it's,

it's hard because you look at jo bite and i mean, he has had a long career in american politics at this point. and at this, when he has been pro war every time he's been pro war was every what he was pro vietnam, he was pro and you can swap you, i rack in afghanistan, where as much as creation is anybody else is i still remember him sitting at the table next to george w bush saying that saddam had weapons of mass destruction 45 minutes away from being launched. and so how do you negotiate with this man? how do i need to go say any, but how do you negotiate with this mentality of this world? view, this ideology, that's the problem here. nichol. i were rapidly running out of time where you always have a word of optimism. mean you've talked about realism here. i wish we could have realism here, because you know what, europe and russia are neighbors and they're going to be neighbors for

a very long time to come. go ahead nicholas. and there will, there is an establishment. there is a deep state, but there is also, there are a keep springing up and those will not go away either. i'm not, i don't know when or if they will try them. but certainly their voices are becoming more and more heard. a bye bye all i think, and that's a that is a reason for optimism in the long run. okay, well, i mean, what is the long run here? because, i mean, can you do see, what do you see the west accepting russian security interest? i mean, that's what this is all about. i mean, the russians, it's all black and white. it was on december 17th. the, you know, the months before the complex, i mean, everybody knows what russia wants, can they, can they accepted, denying it all the way they will effectively accept it. okay. okay, let's go to one. did you buy that? do you think that they could, i mean this is eating so much crow. okay,

cuz this is not as bad as that. it's not a rock, it's not libya, it's different. go ahead in london. i think they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll try and sell it. so as a fig tree, whatever happens um, but so i kind of see rush, a budget and the deal. collins like streamline tries the jazz along with the american exceptionally since the military industry still prop tried for made something with china, another dangerous adventure, but they will try and divert attention from your brain ultimate. okay, so what looks to be a certain degree. okay. every we have one, we have one minute left. so this i, i have the solution for the neil columns and the victoria new ones of the worm. how to get out of this. and it goes something like it's, well, at least the russians didn't make their paris. we won. that's what they're going to do. go ahead and portland, come up with some sort of a scenario that the americans are very good at that they still like to say that

they want in vietnam to you know, we killed so many more of them. that means we won the war, but, you know, they'll, they'll just come up with something. i'm sure either that or they'll just started another war similar else. that's what they usually do. well, it, it's very interesting because these are leads that you are easily, entertainment, ancient, and changeable to in the west. the may seem to be more apt to creating problems and solving any problems over the last 50 years or so gentlemen. that's all the time we have a want to thank my guest in portland kingsley and in london. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for we member across cycles the,

[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the the, to produce to consider as those here instead of both, i'm not going to be on the bottom of corporate, dora,

it's less rude enough. i just wonder how much me on this lovely because the symbol which is good for those who release to beat know um something on a computer or device of the