need for males died within just over a decade ago, inside korea, that's happened in japan. and one of the issues that people have with other issues around the world is that it's not just in the, in the soul, in the water, no affecting people. it stays there and so we don't really know what it's going to be like in generations to come. so perhaps the side, korean people lose opposition and peas are, are wanting to take a safe approach to this because they don't know what it's going to be like in 50 a 100 years time. and then let me ask you a question that it would be a problem of focus cima in region, isn't it? we're talking about what will be disturbs into the sea in the pacific ocean, which is opposite of where, you know, korea is basing in the 1st place. and that's all for this, i've met and coming up by the ends, approval of cluster bombs delivered to ukraine. seemed to be a belief in uniforms. the discussion next on cross off. thanks for watching. stay close. the,

i think the other one majority of you try you sleep when i should reconcile, reconcile yourself to face on the system, the hostage by any analysis cell phone. i would try to do the one that will resist any kind of compromise, any pressure any, any. will any last thoughts our last about re much we can mix up. we'll succeed in the

hello and welcome across stock. were all things are considered on funeral though. it goes without saying nature was a very aggressive military alliance, but who would have thought that at the core of its belief system was believing in unicorns the by the ministrations decision to send cluster bombs to ukraine demonstrates this, the, to discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, martin j america. she's an award winning journal and commentators in budapest we cross the george samuel. he's a pod cast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. are gentlemen cross up rules of effect, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate it. all right, let's start out with george in budapest. well,

wherever we're going up of the escalation ladder again, a, something that the by the administration said would be a potential war crime sending cluster obviously ukraine. um um is now um um regular policy here we have a dot, a pending unofficial se remarkably russian victory worse than civilian cluster bomb depths. that's the us panic a. so george become mono is open for everyone to see. and it's pretty ugly. george, it's survey is right. yeah, i think it's a big way. you're absolutely right. is saying that the united states, the glad early on that it's alleged russia was using, plus the bombs. and that this was on down to really a war crime. so now binds, says this was a very difficult decision to take, but nonetheless we to okay, then the end, of course, this is all this is being the by then ministration. mine shotwell long. no, absolutely. now we're not going to do this. no, no,

we're not doing them as bob on that. yeah. all right. you, when once you see you, you bring it up, let's do it. so now we've had these one device and really from the beginning we've been told really going all the way back to trump in the, the java lives. but javelins was, supposedly you're going to be the, the game changer for ukraine. and then we've had all that, how it says on the high mas, uh, we have the bradley fighting vehicles. we've had the, the, the, the, the tanks, the left foot tanks. uh now you know them we had a few, a few weeks ago the, the hollow blue over the f sixteens. so now is the cluster munitions. and of course these will fail inevitably. 5 then you have to wonder, well, what's the next step? because it doesn't look like nato wants to give up. so it has to keep moving along the escalation ladder, but it has basically spill no hope of winning unless it gets directly involved this

out. then i still don't box that nato is not a party to the conflict. them they have what doesn't want to get involved direct themselves in a child to see what else they can do other than go on on this destructive bar. you know, mine is it's, it's very interesting is that, you know, they, they, they, they use the russians going up the escalation louder, but it's only the russians react to it. and that, that is problem american himself. and we have discussed this, this program, but i thought it's really remarkable that you know, the, the, you know, most of the world outlaw outlaws, these munitions, actually a number of them, a members of nato do as well. but for a country like ukraine wanting to this to deploy them on their own territory. i mean, again, you're good and it's, it is, you have to scratch your head and seeing what you get out of it. you're going to destroy your agriculture, make land unusable on, say, for maybe decades, they have longer. i mean, this is desperation,

this is panic. as we've talked about before, martin, you're taking the word out of my mouth discretion. yeah. absolute desperation. and how can you, how can you look at this strategy without seeing it within, within a context of losing sight of losing strategy? because, i mean, it must be very confusing for wednesday and it's about a new thing. now i'm in care of looking at this thinking. okay, well, you know, joe bought him has a moment of necessity. you know, he, i see there was just a moment of silence. he was just punched. it was a few seconds. we actually said 2 magenta's. i think what we're running low on m a and that was the key point. you know, we're running low on on, but we've known this for a long time. we predicted it on the show months ago. but you're going to reach this tipping point where you can't really carry on functioning. but i'm sure it's honestly, i'm really shocked to. they would go this low because i know a bit about plus to bumps in a few of the was i've come up there been just about the last one in 2006 when these randy, i'm an 11, i'm what i was uh covering it for you and there is like

a recall just a bums test of homes of you'll choose to what i'll click there really. okay. there's nothing lost yet. nothing more malicious, nothing really more gut wrench. and then the officer affects the trust of homes. why? because the people who get killed by plus to bombs are basically children. and what happens with comfortable homes is about 20 something. don't explode the other problems around them. this old, almost along the ground was to explode. a couple of the ones that don't explode with soil to, so that means or so. so these stay in the ground for decades. you look at allows, you know, 270000000 comfortable with the americans drops, allows and still today children are being killed by these festival. and so what is the strategy behind this? i'm wondering, i just want to how much of this is coming from your training and coming from kids of all of the factoring in the us? i think, i think uh, i think what we're looking at is these are not going to be use an offensive offensive strategy. i think they can be used in

a defensive way. when they assume russians were fine, we break the lines and come over and possibly what happens, you drop another cluster bombs, you create just absolutely against you civilian debts, but trust the problems and in this confusion. so they can have american propaganda machine will actually touches. i'm cited and show this to be a russian atrocity look for the rest of the done. you know, we, we, we will just poor defense as we have to use our customs against the powerful tanks and the powerful i'm a, i'm now the images that we've got. now, it is interesting, i'm against that. we've got a lot of images of russian and you kind of in troops can each of the horrible terrific images we don't have much of is the children and disagreements that's going to change the clothes to bump decision will create a new media agenda and you're going to see lots of free hand up video, the whole list and media and the, the, the subject is going to be just civilians and the children. and it's going to be on

this side of the border on the, on the crime sounds pretty busy. american cluster. the american made cluster bombs the day, the george george, the, the, the, you know, you know, looking at this and of enter bigger perspective. so in a, in a couple of days, that will be the bill and this nato summit. so we're not going to give you membership, but we're going to give you a cluster bombs where you can pull into your own territory. but what a deal, what do you say, george? well, it's, it's a real ball again. um, without doubt, i mean that's uh the, that's going to be the message. but the interesting thing is you, i mean, you mention about how the most nato member states actually signed onto the convention on plus the, me, a nation. i think something like 25 other study ones, so it's, it's almost all of them assigned on. so what are they doing about it at the moment? they're letting know that save a journal as well with very,

very unhappy about this. this is not a good thing, you know, we're losing a moral stand a, you know, where the moral high ground receiving the higher around to the russians. but of course, the americans just the loft in this lee when when they hear is because it doesn't matter that what america's nato popping to say, america calls the shots and our friend showed him. but said this, oh, we have different views on this on like it. some don't like it's on a think it's illegal. some though it's up to each individual major member states. and that's it, that's, that's it. that's going to be the position. you know, we, you know, we can complain, but america coles, the shops give them that's really going to be it. so by then sort of made clear when we're not going to get the ukrainians and they, so while the war is taking place. so why did you say that as well?

yes, the voltage stage bowl um the last 3 you gotta get it. got to get a now now and now is the time to do it. but none of these are serious military forces. i mean, the only country in nature that is us as much was as the united states. and obviously you, i displays knows your brains in nato, then it means war with the rush or you can actually doesn't want that. so that's it . you know, well, so therefore we're going to solve you off cluster munitions, and you know, we'll give you a, a, a nato ukraine council. it's a very grand type of major you, grand council. you can have that. um, but no, no membership uh for the time being a 12 martin. i mean, what was, why would the us, the board membership, i mean, they have the best of all possible worlds right now is that they can, they can give you nations in armory and everything else to the ukrainians and still be able to quoted quotes they out of the conflict while they're ukranian, brethren are dying and drugs, i mean,

and now their children will start done here. i mean, it is the people who are watching inventory and e and jake sullivan, blinking, they must think this is such a sweet heart. d a sweetheart. deal for them now. you radians. of course. the moment. yes, i think so, and it's a lot street. right. why wouldn't the american sign up to anything which would just take this conflict to a completely new level, a new level that most of us couldn't even imagine in our streams they want to contain it. but um, it's interesting storybook press conference a couple days ago revealed quite a lot and i admit i watched it start off. i didn't watch it and i listen to them and i'm the some of the things they were saying were quite profound. i think there's money problem not only hold ministry. hardwood problem is also a money problem. and the problem with these institutions like nature and like that, you easily have a default setting in my experience of the coming to lose you. as the default setting is, when things don't go well, we ask for more money. he doesn't want to try it. you know, when we say it,

what we do, we also have a lot of it sounds crazy, but that's what they do. and that's what's happening right now with nature stilton, but i think has been kept on for another year. not just because he was just about as sick as on 6 of a vile puppy, but, but he could ever imagine any is. but it's all about money mates and these moment, oh martin, who really wants the job at this point. okay, i mean, the way things are going this conflict will be bookend by stilton berg. it'll be binding stilton birds war in brooklyn. we'll. we'll be talking about it for a long time, but he's got his name all over it. i don't think there's a lot of people that say, i don't know if that's a good career move right now, cuz they're, they're defaulting to close 2 bedrooms. do you want to meet with? well, just want to be in that situation. i'm sorry, keep going. know, so i'm back with the money thing. i mean, he still, somebody made a huge issue about um, now i need so budget was expanded by 8 percent this year. which he said was completely on preston. well, it will need to pay, you know, needs to be spent of

a lot more. not on the so happy the 11 members are currently reaching the cheapest set of gdp criteria, but it really is all about money. we're running out of stock, so running a village equipment generally. i mean if you look at the, the last week i mentioned the show, the bonus bank is basically helping the central bank be bankrupt. how do you, how does the gems expect to fund? it will do to understand is when this kit is sent, the is both with taxpayers money from the central bank. so these are these countries, if these countries are running out of cash, then that means the war is, you know, i think still de realizes, but it's as much about money is about equipment. and we need to push this. this idea of this program that we need more and more money and i think the take away from it is that i'm going to contradict myself. i said a few weeks ago, i think that some of the west is looking at the short side of the structure, the short term, or i think what's happening now with nature with member states. and this meeting of those is, are they all now shifting the goalpost? again, i think that should have been the subject. right. cause it's

a very important all the time we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine, stay with our team, the or the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the localize across the board. all things are considered on people of elk. this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. the products go back to americas martin as usual we go to

a hard break and you're trying to make an important point. so basically, that was the other side of the shift. now we're having a shifting go start today, which nature indulges itself and it's on it many times. this one now is plus the bottoms. i'm very much a losing structure. you very much. let's put your train on the back foot. i look at the defensive way of slowing down the russians. and also let's introduce a new scene, which i think you're gonna see a lot of in the future, which is nature also for more and more money. why? because i think for the 1st time, the wisdom nature and but i don't have acknowledge that they're looking at the wrong one. no, no, no, no long to think about 6 months. and they said now that finally starting to realize this could be a few years and we have to prepare for it. well, george, i mean ukraine is, is being clabbered right now. i mean, how many years can they sustain something like this? we have to remember also infrastructure is being degraded and with the, obviously, with the loss of life. i always, it just got, it strikes me gentlemen, before we move on is that, you know, they, you know,

for years and years and years ago and from really got, well in depth about this, you know, you have to pay 2 percent of g d, p to your defense, so here we are within an excess dental war, but you still case going use like point 5 more for, i mean, if in texas dental, i mean, you know, i mean we, we've seen all these world war to build, you know, they have, you know, it's always an arsenal, democracy, everybody's mobile lines and all that. but nobody wants to walk away from there. you know, cabbage he knows and lot to use, i guess. okay. if you just let the premiums do it, george. well, that's the thing i mean made. so is, it's a protection racket, but it's a protection rank it, but is run by the united states and people the european member states. it's a freebie for them as it has been ball decades, which is the americans will always though it out of the americans complain is a oh, why you know like trump in particular, but even all of us to complain. yeah. europeans on doing enough and not pulling that way. but why, what the europeans bull the way? because they know the americans would always step up. that would always come up the

money as prompted. so it goes to, they going to say though, we don't have the money, but you know, you were going to hold everything and so on a, but they know we americans will still do it, then they will always do it. because ultimately, nato is an american racket. is the way americans exhaust its power in the world. i mean, the reason why i have the americans so dominant in the world is uh, through nato. so were dominating uh your a be and continent them the way it does better. they but the mouth is point is absolutely right. i mean, americans are preparing for a long war and they think that this is going to bring russia to is needed some of the aspect calculations around shows that we just going to believe them dry. and the longer it, it drags on economy will, will eventually collapse on the sanctions. and they think they will be regime change. you know, they lower, they looked at regardless the thing. but something like this will happen again.

well, they don't really realize is the russian level, essentially, let's say, okay, well, it made so incense that you great will be a member of nato, irrespective of anything else. i'm actually will. okay. we'll just steadily demolish you. great. and so what you'll get is just a nothing you just the, you know, a piece of the destroyed tower transit, okay? you want to crane and they, to take it. this is, this is the, you know, the, the, the junk that's left over of what we had said on our power goggle a body cast around the state where it is just made of, of a flat plane. moat, no agriculture, no resources, just re, i'm empty, real estate that it with low bound martin. it's very interesting because if we look at it, we can degrade russia, you know, a break. it's a con i with her to solve for how many. i mean, it's usually if this thing is over the last, the 16 months or so, and being a resident of this country for a quarter of a century, all the stereotype barrel will break,

the economy is breaking up. the rest of the equipment doesn't work. it's all from world war 2 in excel, but none of them it proven that i mean, even this progression affair, which was a clown show, i'm actually shows the reverse of that. there is no institutional support or popular support for some kind of um, uh, illegal governmental, the constitutional change i actually the west interpreted the complete opposite that as well as in face of reality. martin, the beauty of the west i made so much salutes is also slowly erosion. and you know, there is a lot more chaff now being thrown up on social media from all sorts of people who are making these obvious comments that they were talking about a tool previously. but there's a lot of fake news. there's also a lot, a lot of fake news. i mean, so much of what i'm saying. yeah, that's also check out our video to george. imagine what they're doing,

the russian tennis now. ok, george, as a avid tennis ball or it was amazing to up the legs, you know, do how to, to, in the race russians from a tennis, you know, the players have to take of the appear or the test. okay, so american tennis players didn't have to take a purity test when they opened the u. s. u a. and maybe the iraqi and legally, but russians were treated differently. keep going. i mean, like on the culturally argue with people in england, america sunset and i saw it explained to me, you don't understand the color, be 70, it's not 80 percent. so everything that we read in british newspapers is basically from the propaganda unit, which americans cribs in care of. and if you don't believe me, it just go down the articles and you go to the work of a 100 words down 100. if it was generalize that you're gonna hit those 2 key words . so lensky says, and when he reads the lensky said it's, you know, it's, you know, i think has been so much of these thickness stories recently that we just really difficult to put this on a circular picture. you know, i, i think the, i think the, your opinions are basically going to sort of this getting tired. and there begins

realize that there's a landscape public in the unit is some up backfiring on occasion. because now the real world i think is about and they just couldn't ability, how much credibility can do when you keep on changing the rules, you keep on a shifting your own moral grounds, you know. and now, you know, we, we had a lot of stories about the, the pounds and they keep up on this operations. yeah. i'm sure pronounced that not correctly. you know, the worry was the, there was gonna be a darcy bomb, was alaska even said it even pre frames. the press all of is john list. you know, in the west. unless thing to you, i'm total 0 pants cooled him up. somebody here can, these is good enough to look up this crap, you know, because the i a is even there and they haven't seen any explosives on the building . and so which will claim in the residence of put that. so there is a certain lack of credibility, and i think these fake news stories of back farming on the west in general. but how i'm just letting you know that it's the same time with so much control of social

media and the need to start protests that you'll just be disappeared. oh, you know, there's no opposition. george, getting with with, with the time we have remaining emmanuel and the chrome, one of your favorite depaula george and i love following his career because he gives us so much material as a big know now about ukrainian membership in make a big supporter. okay. so, i mean, it has been explained to me, is that, well, the friends see that, you know, the visa agency of the eastern part of the, you know, of the nature of blocks of polls the, the, the bulk of the baltic states. so it's kind of sad in this day and age the prince has to worry about, you know, competing with the baltic states, but i guess they are. and then another person in the know, told me said, well, the crowd seems nothing else is work. so why do you know if i change his position? wow, that is these know to go george? no, they don't. so definitely i know they go with my crowd is or is you know what he says on mondays, wednesdays and fridays have no bearing and what he says on tuesdays thursdays and

saturdays. and there's no reason to think anything that my problem they uh says sir, is there is the person who said. 5 that nato is brain that he's also said that he's ready to talk at any time to vote in, but for some reason he doesn't do so. um and i think a day that you use the express skepticism about your branding nato. now is the in favor of your brain and they, the, he is an entirely driven by his own political calculations. and i think by his ego, i mean it's like the every french lead defenses himself as on the colon and he's no no exception. so the, the issue about competing with poland. i think that's more salient as far as germany is concerned, because a poem is explicitly saying that we are the leaders of your are because we have this way in ukraine. we have a sway. in the old days, we have

a sway in the countries in the east, in europe. you know, we have, you know, they officially grad countries and so on. and, you know, we're now much more important than germany, which is always hesitating and squabbling between sergeant schultz and i'm in the in of the above. so it's a full and you know, it is marching as a kind of would be lead out of the east in europe and the germans who should really put an end to this nonsense. are they able to do so because the sergeant schultz is this the week eric of the years and ali and above our cars, our own fantasies show exactly what she wants. but she's an extraordinarily ambitious person. so germany is unable to provide any kind of lead where it will go to a map of, i mean, it, all right, so they get it. you know, i'm going to go that made a difference. but i don't think anybody in washington is complaining too much. george: no, absolutely not. absolutely, that's why i mean it's, it's very interesting. again, we, you know,

you're talking about media media generates these narratives. you know, nato is a completely unified. it is, you know, it's being ukraine because of the grain. the issue is it's more unified than ever before, but if you just go to the 4th or 5th paragraph more and more disagreements going on, you know, down gary and saying they don't want it. they find anymore harm shipments here. we have this differences of opinion over cluster bombs, and we have a very rig. they hit regular on even leadership of i q in europe. all of it's really low. it's about the i q of the room temperature this. this doesn't bode well for, you know, long more martin. yeah, and uh, you know, when we, we have this basic things don't choose to and go near as you know, i think to this will be, comes time for all this fake news and below how media reports on these issues. just a few weeks ago, western media is saying that a lot of the eastern european countries have their meeting, and they want to send troops to create most of the boots on the ground. i think

we're cool at bluff as soon as i think america will bank, it's based on the table and say get real. we're running the show. i'm just going to be and i say you never hear anything more of the story again because it was basically a bluff. we've had a lot blocks recently. you know, nothing was the limits. how many blocks you can, you can cut off, you know, when you want to, if you want to keep credibility, but the villainous meeting will be attending blair. but this crazy stupid actual decision of in creating this account so. so the ukraine of no other than the sports . i mean it's ridiculous. just ridiculous. oh no, no, no, no, no i, i know what it is they, they get it, they base service, it will be a little bit better. they'll take care of that there, but they are like tronic badge will be a different color. so they'll have their name on the door in boston who knows, you know, you know, maybe the goal. it's a teeth clean what it is. okay. i mean, they'll be able to, they'll have their own mini bar in their office. i mean, this is a huge upgrade, george,

and that's of them. they get to stay in much nicer hotels. the video bigger. exactly. exactly. and, and they really do, you know, when you look at the last, i've sold them, but again, i'm the, the characters of the naser. they do live high on the hall gum is model is talking about they complain about a lack of the 3 of us do not live. i am a hog and we'd have no more time spoken. i want to say, mike, i guess americans and in budapest, one i think our viewers are watching us here at our to see you next time. remember across levels the

the, [000:00:00;00] the, the, the crime lender reveals the president met with the wagner groups commanders, including for goes in a few days after the attempt that you need to discuss their faith with them. washington decision to send widely band cluster bombs to cab. not only anger's, a host of countries, including russia, china, and cambodia,