of the the the hello and welcome across stock were all things are considered on funeral though it goes without saying nature was a very aggressive military alliance. but who would have thought that at the core of its belief system was believing in unicorns the bible administration's decision to set a cluster bombs to ukraine, demonstrates this the, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, martin j in their cash. he's an award winning journalist and commentator,

and in budapest we cross the george samuel. he's a pod cast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. are gentlemen cross up rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. all right, let's start out with george in budapest. well wherever we're going up of the escalation ladder again, a, something that the by the administration said would be a potential war crime sending cluster. obviously ukraine, like is now a regular policy. here we have a gun at a pentagon. officials say remarkably rushing victory. worse than civilian cluster, bombed us. that's the us panic a. so george become mono is open for everyone to see. and it's pretty ugly. george, it's survey is right. yeah, it's a big way. you're absolutely right. is saying that the united states, the glad early on that it's alleged russia was using, plus the bombs and that this was on down to late

a war crime. so now the bible says this was a very difficult decision to take, but nonetheless, which okay, then the end, of course this is all this has been divided into ministration. mine shotwell long. no, no, absolutely, no, we're not going to do this. no, no, we're not going down this bob. i'm not. yeah. all right. you, when once you see you, you bring it up, let's do it. so now we've had these wound devoss, and really from the beginning we've been told really getting all the way back to trump in the, the javelin javel ends was supposedly you're going to be the, the game changer for ukraine. and then we had all the, how it says on the high mas, uh, we have the bradley fighting vehicles. we've had the, the, the, the, the tanks, the left foot tanks. uh now, you know, then we had a few uh, a few weeks ago the, the hollow blue over the f sixteens. so now is the cluster munitions. and of course these will fail inevitably. um, then you have to wonder, well,

what's the next step? because it doesn't look like the ones to give up. so it has to keep moving along the escalation letter. but it has basically still no hope of winning unless it gets directly involved this out brand. i still don't bucks, that nato is not a party to the conflict on that would. doesn't want to get involved directly. and so then talk to see what else they can do other than go on on this disruptive path . you know, mine is it's, it's very interesting is that, you know, they, they, they, they use the russians going up the escalation louder, but it's only the russians react to it and that, that is problematic in itself when we have discussed this, this program. but i thought it's really remarkable that you know, the, the, you know, most of the world outlaw outlaws, these munitions, actually a number of them, a members of nato do as well. but for a country like ukraine wanting to this to deploy them on their own territory. i

mean, again, you'll get and it's, it is you have to scratch your head and seeing what you get out of it. you're going to destroy your agriculture, make land unusable on, say, for maybe decades. if longer, i mean, this is desperation, this is panic. as we've talked about before, martin, you're taking the word out of my mouth distribution. yeah. absolute desperation. and how can you, i think you look at this strategy without seeing it within, within a context of losing sight of losing strategy. because, i mean, it must be very confusing for lensky and it's about a new thing. i'm in care of looking at this thinking. okay, well, you know, joe button has a moment of disability. you know, he, i see there was just a moment of silence. he was just polyps, it was a few seconds. we actually said 2 magenta's. i think what we're running low on m a and that was the key point. we're running low on, on what we've known this for a long time. we predicted it on the show months ago, but you're going to reach this tipping point where you can't really carry on

functioning. but i'm sure it's honestly, i'm really shocked to. they would go this low because i know a bit about plus to bumps in a few of the was i've come up there been just about the last one in 2006. when these ready. i'm an 11. i'm where i was the covering. i for you into is like the recall just the bombs test of homes of you'll choose to what i'll click there really. okay. there's nothing lost yet. nothing more malicious, nothing really more gut wrench and then the officer affects. so trustable is why? because the people who get killed by plus to bombs are basically children to well, how does it cost the bombs is about $20.00 something dollars fluid? the other problems around them this old, almost around the ground was to explode. a couple of the ones that don't explode with soil to, so that means or so. so these stay in the ground for decades. you look at allows, you know, 270000000 close to bonus americans. drops allows still today children are being killed by these customer on. so what is the strategy behind this? i'm wondering i just want to how much of this is coming from your training and

coming from kids? have all the factoring in the i think i think uh, i think what we're looking at is these are not going to be use an offensive with an offensive strategy. i think they can be used in a defensive way when they assume russians were fine. we break the lines and come over and possibly what happens, you drop another cluster bombs, you create just absolutely go against you and civilian debts, but plus the problems and in this confusion. so they can have american propaganda machine will actually touches i'm cited and show this to be a russian atrocity look what the rest is done. you know, we, we, we would just poor defense as we have to use our customs against the powerful tanks and that powerful on me. i know the images that we've got. now, it is interesting. i'm against that. we've got a lot of images of russian and you kind of in troops coming and show the horrible

terrific images we don't have much of is the children a disability, and that's going to change the clothes to bump decision will create a new media agenda and you're going to see lots of free hand up video, the whole listing media and the the, the subject is going to be done civilians and the children is going to be on this side of the border on the, on the crime, separate agency, american cluster. the american made cluster bombs the day, the george george, the, the, the, you know, you know, looking at this and a vendor bigger perspective. so in a, in a couple of days, that will be the bill and this nato summit. so we're not going to give you membership, but we're going to give you a cluster bombs where you can pull it to your own territory. what a deal, what do you say george? well, it's, it's a real ball again. without doubt. i mean, that's uh, the, that's going to be the message, but the interesting thing is, you, i mean, you mention about how the most nato member states actually signed onto the

convention on plus the, me, a nation. i think something like 25 other study ones. so it's, it's almost all of them assigned on. so what are they doing about it at the moment? they're letting know to the favorite journal as well. we're very, very unhappy about this. this is not a good thing. you know, we're losing a moral stand a, you know, where the moral high ground receiving the higher around to the russians. but of course, the americans just the life in this lee when, when they hear is because it doesn't matter what america's nato popping to say, america calls the shots. and our friend showed him by said this, or we have different views on this. some like it, some don't like it's on a think it's illegal, some though it's up to each individual major member states. and that's it. that's the last thing that's going to be the position. you know, we, you know,

we can complain, but america calls the shots, give them that's really going to be it. so by then sort of made clear when we're not going to get the ukrainians and they, so while the war is taking place. so why did you say that as well? yes, the voltage stage bowl um, you know, blustering, you're gonna get it. got to get a now now is it now is the time to do it? but none of these are serious military forces. i mean, the only country in nature that is there is much, was this the united states and obviously displays knows your brains in nato. then it means war with the rush or you can actually, it doesn't want that. so that's it. you know, well, so therefore we're going to fall view off, cluster munitions, and you know, we will give you a, a, a nato ukraine council. it's a very grand type of major you, grand council. you can have that. um but no, no membership of the time being a 12 martin. i mean, what was, why with the us,

the board membership, i mean they have the best of all possible worlds right now, is they, they can, they can give you nations in armory and everything else to the ukrainians and still be able to quote unquote stay out of the conflict while they're ukrainian brethren are dying and drugs, i mean and, and now their children will start dying here. i mean the people are watching inventory and e and jake sullivan, blank and they must think this is such a sweet heart d a sweetheart. deal for them now. you radians. of course one moment. yes, i think so, and it's a love seat, right? why was the american sign up to anything which would just take this conflict to complete, you know, level under level that most of us couldn't even imagine in our streams they want to contain it. but to them it's interesting. the storybook press conference a couple days ago reveal cut a loss and i admit i watched it start off. i didn't watch it and i just need to amend the some of the things that he was saying were quite profound. i think there's a money problem, not only a whole bunch of hardware problem. there's also

a money problem. and the problem with these institutions like nature and why the e u is only have a default setting in my experience of coming to lose you as the default setting is when things don't go well, we oscar more money. he doesn't want to time. you know, when we fail and what we do, we don't think about it sounds crazy, but that's what they do. and that's what's happening right now with nature. stilton, but i think has been kept on for another year. not just because he was just the most sick of sunsets of a vile puppy, but, but you could never imagine any is, but it's all about money. um, nathan, these moments martin, who really wants the job at this point. okay. i mean, the way things are going this conflict will be bookend by stilton berg. it'll be binding stilton birds war in brooklyn. we'll. we'll be talking about it for a long time. but he's got his name all over it. i don't think there's a lot of people that say, i don't know if that's a good career move right now, cuz they're, they're defaulting to close the you want to be, well,

didn't want to be in that situation. i'm sorry, keep going. know so back with the money thing. i mean, he still, somebody made a huge issue about um, now need, so budget was expanded by 8 percent this year, which he said was completely aggressive. well, it will need to be, you know, needs to be spent of a lot more not i'm that you so happy the 11 members or company reaching the cheapest set of gdp criteria, but it really is all about money running out of stock. so running a village equipment generally, i mean if you look at the last week, i mentioned it shows the bundles bank, especially banks to help in a central bank be bankrupt. how do you, how does the gems expect to fund it? will do to understand is when this kit is sent to is boss with taxpayers money from the central bank. so these are these countries, if these countries are running out of cash, then that means the war is, you know, i think still them, but realizes, but it's as much about money is about equipment. and we need to push this. this idea of this program that we need more more money and i think the take away from it is, but i'm going to contradict myself. i said a few weeks ago,

i think that some of the west is looking at short term strategy short term, or i think what's happening now with nature with member states and this meeting of those is available now shifting a goal post again. i think that should have been the subject, right, cause it's a very important hold up. now we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team, the, [000:00:00;00] the, after the end of world war 2, the national liberation movement,

a vietnam intensified dramatically, haven't driven away the japanese occupiers to vietnamese patriots by no means wanted the return of the former french colonizers. but brands did not want to lose their rates, colony had decided to beat the opposition by board. in december 1946, a full scale war broke out. the v. i mean, they 3 addict organization led by whole g means inflicted heavy losses on the french. the invaders were enraged. according to western historians, up to 250000 lives of peaceful v, and these were on their contents. the colonialist widely used the practice of mass rape of being these women. as revenge on the gorilla. in 1947, the french destroyed the village of nights, rock murdering 170 women, and 157 children. however terror did not help. in 1954,

the vietnamese defeated the french army and the decisive battle of gen, being food, almost 12000 french soldiers and officers, including the commander general of the country and his command staff were captured . there could be 2 evaluation of a huge garrison at a demoralizing effect in europe. the french laughed vietnam, but they were replaced by even more violent and much stronger invaders. the americans, part times, were awaiting vietnam again the, the of the luggage across the board. all things are considered on people of alex. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real moves,

the products go back to americas martin as usual, we go to a hard break and you're trying to make an important point. so basically that was the other side of the shift. now we're having a shifting go start today, which nature indulges itself and it's on it many times. this one now is trust the bottoms. i'm very much a losing structure. you very much. let's put your train on the back foot. i look a defensive way of slowing down the russians know. so let's introduce a new saying, which i think you're gonna see a lot of in the future, which is nature also more and more money. why? because i think for the 1st time, the west of nature and, but i just haven't noticed that they're looking at the wrong one. no, no, no, no long to think about 6 months. and they said now that finally starting to realize this could be a few years and we have to prepare for it. well, george, i mean ukraine is, is being clabbered right now. i mean, how many years can they sustain something like this? we have to remember also infrastructure is being degraded and what they obviously

with the loss of life. i always, it just got, it strikes me gentlemen, before we move on is that, you know, they, you know, for years and years and years ago and trump really got wound up about this. you know, you have to pay 2 percent of g, d, p, the, your defense. so here we are within an excess dental war, but you still case going use like point 5 more for, i mean, if in texas dental, i mean, you know, i mean we, we've seen all these world war to build, you know, they have, you know, it's the arsenal, democracy, everybody's mobile, eyes and all that. but nobody wants to walk away from there. you know, cabbage he knows and lot to use, i guess. okay, if you just let the premiums do it, george. well, that's the thing i mean made. so is, it's a protection racket, but it's a protection, right, that is run by the united states and people, the european member states. it's a freebie for them and it has been bull decade, which is the americans will always though it out of the americans complain as they all why you know, like trump in particular, but even all of us,

the complaint. yeah. europeans on doing it up and not pulling that way. but why, what the europeans bull the way? because they know the americans will always step up. that would always come up the money as prompt it. so it goes to they going to say, no, we don't have the money, but you know, you were going to hold everything and so on a, but they know we americans will still do it, then they will always do it. because ultimately, nato is an american racket. is the way america exhausts its power in the world. i mean, the reason why i have the americans so dominant in the world is uh, through nato. so dominating uh your a band comes in at the end of the way. it does better. but the with montes point is absolutely right. i mean, americans are preparing for a long war and they think that this is going to bring russia to is needed some of the aspect calculations around shows that we just going to believe them dry. and the longer it, it drags on economy will, will eventually collapse on the sanctions. and they think they will be regime change. you know, they lower,

they looked at regardless the thing. but something like this will happen again. well, they don't really realize is the rush or level essentially, let's say, okay, well it made so incense that you great will be a member of nato, irrespective of anything else. i'm actually will. okay, we'll just steadily demolish ukraine. so what you'll get is just a nothing you just the, you know, a piece of a destroy jared transit. okay. you want to craning they to take it. this is, this is the, you know, the, the, the junk that's left over of what we've said on our, our gaggle a box guess a run state where it is just made of, of a flat plane mode, no agriculture, no resources, just re, i'm empty, real estate that it with low bout martin. it's very interesting because if we look at it, we degrade russia, you know, a break. it's a con i with her to solve for how many. i mean,

it's really if this thing is over the last, the 16 months or so, i'm being a resident of this country for a quarter of a century. all the stereotype barrel will break. the economy is breaking up. the rest of the equipment doesn't work. it's all from world war 2 and except, but none of them, it proven that i mean, even this progression affair, which was a clown show, i'm actually shows the reverse of that. there is no institutional support or popular support for some kind of um, uh, illegal governmental, the constitutional change. i actually the west interpreted the complete opposite that as well as in face of reality. martin, the beauty of the west, i made so much salutes as also slowly erosion. you know, there is a lot more chaff now being thrown up on social media from all sorts of people who are making these obvious comments that they were talking about a tool previously. but there's a little fake news. there's also a lot,

a lot of fake news. i mean, so much of what i'm saying. yeah. check out a video to judge. imagine what they're doing, different regression. tennis now. ok, george, as a avid tennis ball or it was amazing to up legs, you know, do how to, to, in the race russians from a tennis, you know, the players have to take of it appear at the test. okay. so american tennis players didn't have to take a purity test when they opened the u. s. u a. and maybe the iraqi and legally, but brussels. literally the different like keep going. i mean, like on the culturally argue with people in england, america sunset and i saw i explained to them, you will understand the probably 70, if not 80 percent. so everything that we read in british newspapers is basically from the propaganda unit, which americans craig's in care. of, and if you don't believe me, it just go down the articles and you go to the work of a 100 words down 100 feet with signal noise that you're going to hit those 2 key words. so lensky says, and when he read zalinski said it's, you know, it's, you know, i think has been so much of these thickness stories recently that we,

it's really difficult to put this on a circular picture. you know, i, i think the, i think the europeans are basically going inside of this, getting tired of americans realize that there's a landscape public and the unit is somewhat backfiring on occasion. because now the real world i think is about and they just could have been and see how much credibility can do when you keep on changing the rules, you keep on a shifting your on moral grounds. you know, i know, you know we, we had a lot of stories about the, the, the pounds and do keep us as upper as you she, i'm sure pronounced that not correctly. you know, the worry was the, there was gonna be a darcy bomb. the zaleski even said it even pre claims. the press all of is john with his, you know, in the west, i'm nice thing to you. i'm total 0 pants cooled him up. somebody you can do this good enough to look up this crap. you know? because the i a is even there and they haven't seen any explosives on the building . and so which will claim in the residence of good data. so there is a certain lack of credibility and i think these fake news stories,

but farming on the west in general. but how i'm just letting you know that it's the same time with so much control of social media and the need to start protests that you'll just be disappeared. oh, you know there's no opposition, george. and yet with, with the time we have remaining emmanuel and the chrome, one of your favorite depaula george and i love following his career because he gives us so much material as a big now of the ukrainian membership in make a big supporter. okay. so, you know, i mean, it has been explained to me, is it? well, the friends see that, you know, the visa and, and see of the eastern part of the, you know, of the nature of blocks, the polls, the, the, the bulk of the baltic states. so it's kind of sad in this day and age the prince has to worry about, you know, competing with the baltic states, but i guess they are. and then another person in the know, told me said, well, the crime scene is nothing else is work. so why did not change his position? wow, that is these no, to go george? no, they don't. so definitely i know they go with my crowd is or is you know what he says on mondays,

wednesdays and fridays have no bearing. and what he says on tuesdays thursdays and saturdays and there's no reason to think anything that my problem they uh says sir, is there is the person who said. 5 that nato is brain that he's also said that he's ready to talk at any time to vote in, but for some reason he doesn't do so. um and i think a day that he used to express skepticism about your branding nato. now he's in favor of your brain and they, the he is an entirely driven by his own political calculations. and i think by his ego, i mean it's like the every french lead defenses himself as on the colon and he's no, no exception. i thought i the, the issue about competing with poland. i think that's more salient as far as germany is concerned, because a problem is explicitly saying that we are the leaders of your are because we have

this way in ukraine. we have a sway in the old days, we have a sway in the countries in the east, in europe. you know, we have, you know, they officially grad countries and so on. and, you know, we're now much more important than germany, which is always hesitating and squabbling between sergeant schultz and i'm really in a basketball, so it's on, you know, it is marching as a kind of would be lead out of the eastern europe and the germans, who should really put an end to this nonsense. are they able to do so because the sergeant schultz. is this a good character then? yes. and ali and above our cars, our own fantasies show exactly what she wants. but she is an extraordinarily ambitious person. so germany is unable to provide any kind of lead where it will go to a map of, i mean, it, all right, so they get it. you know, i'm going to go to made a difference. but i don't think anybody in washington is complaining too much.

george: no, absolutely not. absolutely, that's why i mean it's, it's very interesting. it again, we, you know, you're talking about media media generates these narratives. you know, nato is a completely unified. it is, you know, it's the ukraine because of the grain. the issue is it's more unified than ever before, but if you just go to the 4th or 5th paragraph more and more disagreements going on, you know, down gary and saying they don't want it. they find anymore harm shipments here. we have this differences of opinion over cluster bombs, and we have a very rig thing and regular on even leadership of i q in europe. all of it's really low. it's about the i q of the room temperature this. this doesn't bode well for, you know, long more martin. yeah. and uh, you know, when we, we have this basic things don't choose to and don't. yes. you know, i think to this will be, comes time for all of this fake news and below how media reports on these issues. just a few weeks ago. western media is saying that a lot of the eastern european countries have their meeting,

and they want to send troops to create most of the boots on the ground. i think a little cooler bluff on the thing is, i think america will bank. it's based on the table and so it get real, we're running the show, i'm just going to be and i say, you'll never hear anything more of the story again because it was basically a bluff. we've had a lot blocks recently. you know, nothing was the limits. how many bluffs you can, you can cut off, you know, when you want to, if you want to keep credibility but hasn't been feeling us meeting will be a tony blair. but this crazy stupid actual decision of in reaching this council. so the ukraine of no other sports. i mean is ridiculous. just ridiculous. oh no, no, no, no, no i, i know what it is they, they get it. the base service will be a little bit better. they'll take care of that there, but their electronic batch will be a different color. so they'll have their name on the door in boston who knows, you know, you know, maybe the goal. it's a teeth clean what it is. okay. i mean they'll be able to,

they'll have their own mini bar in their office. i mean, this is a huge upgrade, george, and that's of them. they get to stay in much nicer hotels. the video bigger. exactly, exactly. and, and they really do, you know, when you look at the last i've sold them, but again, i'm the, the characters of the laser. they do live high on the hall. gavin's model is talking about they complain about electrolyte on the 3 of us do not live high in the hog and we'd have no more time spoken. i want to say, mike, i guess americans and in budapest, one i think our viewers are watching us here at our d. c. next, i'm remember across levels the

russian states never as tight as i'm sort of the most sense community best. nothing was all sense and up the must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the, to the question,

did you say even closer to the the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to was