number one, numbers of currency, they're trying to diversify. a lot of them are leaning towards gold as well or commodity back. currencies could be cause a digital ruble potentially be seen as some sort of old. i was trying to diversify, right. i think it kind of just the 1st the for the reasons we outlined just the idea would start to that would be a lot easier. cuz for example, i'd be able to see all the trading or should they be able to see it might be all the trade being done between silver and nations. that's a really strong, you know, argument for other countries. also adults in their own digital digital re, the little digits digital we want and i think we can see that being used a lot more and maybe they'll come together and they'll actually announced a new coming car and see like the you arrive, that is based in apples that are being adopted, hey with a digital available. so those are the main stories. a tough 9 am this wednesday morning to head over to all websites, all to come on the telecom sunroof, all the latest spots on the back again. the

the, the stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle, but h o, so i'm, it didn't build this. i'm is that ukraine will not be invited to join the alliance any time soon. in the meantime, ukraine is asked to sacrifice a young man on a promise that will probably never be kept. washington the

cross walk in the nato summit. i'm joined by my guest, lead slusher, in charlottesville. he is an intelligence and you pull. would it be consulting in san francisco? we have k, j. know he is a political analyst and journalist and in brussels. we have luke renee, he is an independent journalist. all right, gentlemen, cross pap rules and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated lee, let me go to you 1st and charlottesville. you know, it's all over the news. it's a big deal. it's the most important, someone nato has had, you know, since forever and all that. but when you look at the detailed map, you know, it's a, a process for, for you trying to get into nato. what other countries had to do to except for finland suite and they were exempt. okay. we could talk about that to, but this is a, this exemption here is a, is a, is a slippery path because you know, this exemption, it doesn't get demanded. they have political reform, a routing out really deep seated corruption and it, and really just says, you know,

interoperability. they will buy weapons from american arms producers. so, i mean, the outcome are american producers and it's asking ukraine to be maybe a little bit pregnant to your thoughts. we, i think nato summits in general tend to be a bit underwhelming. there's a great deal of fostering and narrative, but a little in the way of bold, meaningful change that the big news story right now, of course, being that turkey dropped the top position, the cap receive membership even bite and acknowledge that out loud. so what 10 nato do for ukraine? well, nato expected the where to go much differently, better for ukraine, worse for russia, and then in the way of tangible options, except to continue the 3 broad categories of a that is provided thus far. the 1st of course, is military assistance. the western weapons and targeting intelligence have been the life blood of the war effort for a year and a half for ukraine, but the west has little left dwindling manpower. so nato can continue to supply

some weapons and ammunition, but likely lesser and both on quantity in quality. and none of this will alter the outcome of the war in a perceptible manner. and the same is true for the western intelligence. and this, the planning is believe over russia. the 2nd broad category is money. so enormous infusions of western cash are the only reason the government in ukraine can operate . so nato will likely continue to provide some financial assistance. but again, this has no real impact on the result of the war. aside from continuing to keep the government afloat. and the 3rd category is promises. so i would expect more of the same platitudes out of the summit. you know, stay the course for as long as it takes things like that. they're kind of hard and non binding pledge that at the end of the war they might allow you into join. the problem of course, is that this is hollow, russel launched in special military operation and part to prevent ukraine. russia would allow a conclusion of the war that would lead to ukraine joining just seems not very

likely. jo. k. j. a guy, i'm really glad. lee gave a excellent summation of all the most important points, and i agree with them. but i can't tell you, i mean, if you really take a step back, this is this nato's way of keeping them all. because out of all that, the bank, but it's been spill, no one's talking about an outcome of this conflict, and that is, since we're not talking about an outcome, they just want to keep pursuing it. your thoughts in san francisco, nato has a vested interest in keeping this going. us idea was to bleed russia and to cause as much damage. and so they're looking at protracted war. i absolutely agree that also on russia's and it has an interest in keeping the board going. if there is going to be any promise that to that, that ukraine would join a, at the conclusion of the war. so there's some deep contradictions built in thing. and i think the other piece that we have to notice is that at the same time that

nato is pastoring and increasing its rhetoric. this making maneuvers towards expanding into asia, most notably a liaison office into japan. so these are pieces that we have to watch. we already know that nato has i t p p and you know, uh, yeah, personalized plans of relationships with multiple countries. and i think the next thing that we have to watch out for is natal going to seek to expand into the asia pacific. well, the nato has grand ambitions. that's for sure. the doors always the countries they deem to be threats or they create as threats as they did in the case of russia, needlessly. look, i mean, it's is really interesting. i mean, you live on the european continent. it's obvious the, by the ministration doesn't want to ukraine in nato, because then there wouldn't be obligations towards the ukraine. so they don't want

it in, in, in the alliance. they want this war to keep going. they want to be immigration problem, migration problems to continue doesn't bother the americans, the economies of europe contain it's a good deal for the americans. look, a citizen white proxy. know young americans on the bicycle deal is the ukrainians. answer the questions. so it's perfect, mr. blinking repeated it a few weeks ago when you said that he was not for peace, all negotiations. you was for the continuation of for and if you remember, you got the 7999. when james baker and all the minnesota identifies the 2nd state of thomas promised to go to my job that nato will not move when the page to the east in presence of guess to the german maybe same president softball, or i'll do, i'll put it in his main walk for breakfast, and i mean, since this is in credit today, of course, since the past 14,

they are preparing your brain for this coughing. and it is a publication of total provocation. the wish doesn't see you because we have very good propaganda. you know, price here in here. well, i actually wouldn't say it's good propaganda. i mean, i think during the cold war is a lot more subtle. it's about settle it all other things. it's very curious cuz, you know, nato is about security of its members countries, but they don't want it to curity. and, and that is the problem here and extending the alliance isn't going to create security actually in security. and that is the greatest fault of nato. it doesn't think about the security of others. lee, go ahead and i found sir. yeah, i agree. so during the cold war, nieto was created specifically to counter the soviet union and its eastern block allies will after the cold war, that reason vanished. but not only did nato continue to exist, it expanded and conducted out of area operations. and most importantly,

estin uh the war on serbia 1999. so when we compare the defensive alliance to an expanding authentic alliance, that clearly does not contribute to stability on the continent. okay, well, exactly, and during the cold war was developed during the, what's called the helsinki process is the indivisibility of security. they never use that term anymore. it means that one country can increase its security at the expense of another. everybody agreed to that they don't anymore. go ahead in san francisco. yes, i mean, this is kwan dimensions. any notion of security is that you cannot increase your security at the expense of my or somebody else's security. i don't get to protect my car by putting a claim on mine's on my bumper is because that makes me feel more secure. so this notion of individual security, which is foundational fundamental to a, a saying that rational world order has been incomplete. the chinese proposal on the

ukraine of a political settlement for the ukraine. they talk about this process. it's the 2nd clause in the position paper, but certainly from the standpoint of nato states, as it manipulates nato. a mutual security is completely gone out the window. yeah. and located the, the aim of, of, of, of nato, under the leadership, the united states is not to protect the crane, but to destroy russia as another fundamental flaw. this a lot of the tubes clearly since 2014 was seen and the on the industrial limited complex of the west is, is incredibly you something come up and i'm sure you what happens because the ox most that the p and stop buying a lot of americans, whether it's not your p. o, the french tribes sell, there are falling all the things they take on the old. the rest is julian american,

and the problem seems to be not, i mean, you know, it's cash, you know? so lensky says it's $3000000000.00, you know, a week of dollars to buy needs you to kind of follow suit, you know, mrs. fatherland, ask for 50000000000 euro and then again, 50000000 euro. and now you have the bad pupils and the golf like this. the organ sang, we are the boss, this is volume, right? we call k. so this is the next problem for the um, from nature and for the friends of you. right? yeah, but the low creevy complained that the europeans wouldn't pay enough and then that's a fair argument. but to be your point here is that they, they want the europeans to pay more, but to buy american arms, do i have the calculation? correct? because it is what happens, you know, the pass code, the 5, the amount of complaints, but like germany, paul, i'm going to be part of the, the deal that got striking billions. so i'll get some, it's something which is,

which is incredibly bad for your incredibly bad because of medicare at the same time is just drawing our capacity to, to, to conquer new markets. that will be what they, what they want to conquer new markets and having an a for another forever war. i mean the, the ask dan griffith came to an end and nope, no coincidence. ukraine came into play. quite gentlemen. we'd have to go to a hard break, and after that hard break little bit and build this stage with our team, the, the authoration aerodynamic began shortly after world war 2. lost it almost 3 different to try and split the ukraine or from the soviet union. us intelligence together with hypnos, executioner's train,

hundreds of 7 to us to be deployed in the soviet union. this focused was one of the stuff of, well outside of open dispatch jewelry store, which was the on site or she needs more details. today. security service of ukraine use is no telling me that this big method is the the more expensive and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do you have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you,

i'm comfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just the welcome that's across stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter roosevelt. you mind you were discussing the nature of some it didn't build this. the ok, let's go back to lee lee. i mean, again the build up the propaganda build up to this summit here. i'm actually very confused because i keep talking about the future of the future of the alliance for membership for ukraine. a, we're not even close to there. i mean, we don't even know what kind of ukraine is going to exist. it's a, it's borders. we have no idea, we don't know what kind of economic strength it will have. we didn't have no idea what its population is going to be and union good it forever pay for

a row of questions we don't believe you created would ever be allowed in tomato. oh, that's yeah. i don't believe by that. i mean, i don't believe russia whatever allow it to happen, as i mentioned earlier. but within this context of the hypothetical, that western leaders continue to propose of this post or ukraine and what they're going to do for it. and rebuilding and membership and various western alliances. i think it is noteworthy that the parts of ukraine russia controls now and is likely to control at the end of the war comprise most of the countries gdc, including its heavy industry. so whatever is left would indeed be a rump of it largely agricultural nature. deferral probably will have to rely on uh, western need. so i agree with you. okay, j a k j say the same question too because they're out there all the i and it's come across these conferences about investing in ukraine and what, what ukraine are. and if, if the, the outcome is, is at odds with, with rush who wants,

then there's always the likelihood that the conflict could continue. who wants to invest in an environment like that, go ahead in san francisco. well, they're really talking about investing in, wor, just the, you know, the language about investment. ultimately, it boils down again as we industrial complex. and so this is, you know, and it's crude, a small one, a military retains, you know, some of the united states also understands that it is the military is the only part of its industrial capacity, which is still functioning on the high level. it wants to add that up even further . it's also doing is out sourcing to india, korea. in general, we seize this preparation of a military industrial chain that is creating a kind of enclosed set among its vassals. and then is going to add that on even further with the united states, it's extracting the value from the continued process of murder and violence. yeah, it look, if i can tap into your experience being

a european living in brussels, i came across a day a report that a little less than 50 percent of poles poles a pump in nato. well, i mean po and one of the hard liners in the european union and nato here. what is public opinion in europe? i mean, is it essentially the same? my point is there's a democracy deficit here. who were the people ever asked about this? they were never, austin's goes and gets his spending different from the whole talk about opposite are in the sense that they have the, with the, with rush of cause of, of the whole. the good is the case. and in the centuries in the pasta were conquered 4 times or 5 minus bought by russian. so that is a hatred in, in bowling for, for our shuttle or a problem that will not be all settled immediately. the rest of you,

that's something say in germany, the pansies will want to get out of numerous before sponsor, you know, decision b a, b, which is not, is very much against the water ukraine. they want this to stop it now. they don't want any more military equipment coming for jeremy. jeremy wants to build factories to, to assembled. thanks in your credit. i wonder how long, how long they would last and the same across, you know, it is a launch, a position that is now silent because call talked about it. so it's sort of been to, to, to come off to the defense of prussia and, and all the issue a few crime, shut up the so be let it let it pass above really the population. people never a good 40 method accepted officially. uh, because never an issue during elections. and um, uh, it's

a real problem. it's lee. it's very interesting here we could throw in american domestic politics for a 2nd. i mean, you have to, well known a candidates running for the presidency, bobby junior and donald trump. uh they don't agree with washington, everyone in but it seems to outside or is that are saying different, different things and they have it a lot of traction. quite interesting. don't you think? i certainly do. and it's something that i've seen play out in many different instances, and that is so people on opposite sides of the spectrum are all very dissatisfied with the status quote, which is to say with the establishment x is not such a big fan of that. but what i think is there's been a small sort of ruling elite club that is kind of enrich themselves at the expense of others and largely run things into the ground. so there's just widespread dissatisfaction among those who are not a part of that. yeah, it's very interested in k to it's a, you know, i,

you tube where on rumbled though and other platforms i was banished from twitter and until you on came back. don't like any debate at all 0 debate. you know, i think you have to understand this as a kind of hybrid warfare. the information warfare is key. and for example, you know, in standard baffled doctrine, before you send in the infantry, you send an air cover and you send an artillery to suppress the fire so that you can send in your infantry. it's the same process that happens, but on a higher level before you start a war or while a war is going, you also want to suppress any piece activism, any resistance toward. and so this information ward is literally a way of surprises stance. any of any challenge to the notion onto the justification of the war. so this is what we're seeing right now. the information warfare is the pretended and the sub genetic dimension of this ongoing war. yeah,

the local, we've seen that happened in, in europe. but, you know, there there's, there's a real physical consequences of what's going as of the conflict. and you know, you can propagandized all you want, but germany is the industrialized. and you can't fudge that, luke, for. and um, the press starts talking about and they didn't for a long time, there's not a stop to fact that the, the energy issue is essential for the german industry, for example, that industry and other companies. but especially germany like the capital the street got, they don't get any stuff, get the bottom of gas from russia and no problem. and to turn a key to the south going to the to the balkans and then i'll city into austria. so it's not that simple, and you cannot replace those mediately. we need 500 more ships to transport, but allergy that haven't been built and it takes you to very,

very expensive. it is awfully expensive and american doesn't give us a favor by giving your opinions to a better price for the gas. so it's really been, it's blaine to america. likely because saying you should make an effort to reduce the price of your gas bill. issue energy for industry in europe, and it's solid and worsening. now, because of dropping off and buy will have it can rise in the price of oil and gas because so for lack of gas with the window it. li, if the american public prepared for another forever war. i mean it's, it's really quite amazing. you know, i, in the wake of the iraq war, never again will never let this happen again. but it does, it's a pattern. it continues to happen over and over again. i think so, the american public doesn't want another forever war. the question is,

what can they do? and it seems to be very little, because let's remember the us to not declare war on russia. it's prosecuting the proxy war against russia and ukraine as a matter of policy. and that policy is decided by the people who are in charge and we get very few other alternatives. when we go to the ballot systems generally prevent the outside or is from coming along and making it to that level. to 2016, of course, was a huge exception. people didn't expect trump to make it that far. but by controlling the options such that as they want without consequences, has been the order of the day for quite some time. and i can't say it's really interesting is that um russia gates the hoax, a blood into policy and it's really field on this. d, immunization of rush leads just as we just pointed out. it's never on the ballot box, but it's always implied. and it went from foreign policy to domestic policy. go ahead

in san francisco. you're absolutely right. i mean, this entire russian gate of framing has been very, very instrumental. and it's not only serves the domestic political purposes, but it's the foundation under which is the implicit foundation under which this war is wage that russia has being a friend to the united states. it's been a threat to europe, etc. of course, all of this is, you know, propaganda. the essential threat is the united states. currently, the united states is the country that is d industrialized in europe. and we have done this that lead russia out, but also as a way of keeping europe under vassal status to the united states. it's really quite interesting and mean an enemy of the united states. i mean, there were countless more as the in the last 60 years, but being americans friend is not in very good place as well. apparently, we can ask luke and brussels to do to verify that for all of us gentlemen,

we've run out of time. i want to thank my guess in charlottesville, san francisco, and in brussels. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember the, [000:00:00;00] the, the toner, it'll see skit they should, they will see skid out of the go with the that you sent those last i was i move you on is zacko. go on that good option and you're not each and put it put up and you're not. you show up for the state of the instruction you have about john long would love to go. just talk

a little you should see those sheets of the go. there's a little c, a years ago, sales custom kosa krench here was the monthly. i'm a photo skin. she was a but all, you know and about the show on 2nd most to go to court order statements and go out . and so usually it comes to shop, getting ready to go to your open when you get to mind for sure. most of played catch the thought. yes. cool kind. yeah. and the console. you put the revise, your saves

the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify all confused, say better wills, and is it just because it shows very few fractured images present? it is 1st. can you see through their illusion going underground can or the, this is a strong message, political message, just don't political message. there's going to be a stronger message from the strong united. i'm positive message to ukraine. they would place the road about to membership as an interest limits and 1000000000 slaves. ukraine,

disappointed for most accepting the states into the block also ahead despite the