tv Cross Talk RT July 12, 2023 6:30am-6:57am EDT
6:30 am
the $500.00 missing the other half of the passengers will punch assigned defense and were promised a safe passage to europe. mohammed hassan of your own pocket spending money, who survived the fed attends of being smuggled into europe. so it is how human and traffic is organized, such trips a c k, the pick up points to be sent by boat and then we started moving into deep sea. i think for 3 or 4 days, 4 days, yes. after 4 days, our boat broke down, but they said you have almost arrived at the destination. you are near italy, you will be received soon by the agent. we spent the whole night in that boat in the middle of the c o. we were in serious trouble and i don't really know what happened after that. i lost my senses. you look at it and see which human traffic is also missing. safe transits your advice ship. some of them it us on. he 1st flew from practice done, and then he was transferred to egypt almost done, smuggled through libya, where he paid over all the 50 sum to bought a fishing for all the boats was both for the main thing and over crowded on the
6:31 am
migraines face. g i usually like there was a place for 7 days and we were all sitting so close to to the small place and the boat that we could not even move an inch. we could not sleep just sitting for 7 days, 7 days in the middle of a sea. no food was provided by them, just drinking water and about bucket for the 1st 4 days. and then the bucket water also ran out and did it just a bit as a libya has created a hot bed for human trafficking in the oil rich country. since the nation descended its chaos, following the nature of bites, oper rising in 2011. the top of this government decide this. libya is still focused on punishing those responsible for human smuggling. does not mondale to being called sentenced 5 people to life in prison minutes after being convicted of them. but it's a rainy and a son also told us how the traffic is treats the migrants to pay for the services books to the doctor. standards are in miserable condition, they're, they don't respect pakistan with them and they don't give them food for the job. but the, i don't know why. the reason is they hate pakistan is we're treated like animals
6:32 am
and social, this monthly being called has jail. 57 people in connection with human trafficking and organizing migrant crossings in overcrowded and 40 main site vessels. so websites are they don't the best old for me to stop by my colleagues for you. well, it is always ahead and just on to 30 minutes time to tell you through all these top stories this wednesday and its beep and thanks very much. speak on the the
6:33 am
the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. the nato summit didn't build. this is a pond, it's the only certain outcome is that ukraine will not be invited to join the alliance any time. soon. in the meantime, ukraine is asked to sacrifice a young man on a promise that will probably never be kept. washington likes it that way. the cross walk in the nato summit, i'm joined by my guest, lead slusher and geo political risk expert, as well as ceo of bt consulting in san francisco. we have k j. no, he is a political analyst and journalist and in brussels. we're a journalist. all right, gentlemen, across the top rooms in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated, lee, let me go to you 1st and charlottesville. you know, it's all over the news. it's
6:34 am
a big deal. it's the most important. some of nato has had, you know, since forever and all that. but when you look at the details, okay, fine, there's something called a map, you know, for, for ukraine to get into nato. what other countries had to do to, except for thin wooden sweden they were exempt. okay. we can talk about that. but this is a, this exemption here is a, is a, is a slippery path because you know, this exemption, it doesn't demand that they have political reform. routing out really deep seated corruption, you know, interoperability, they will buy weapons from american arms producers. so, i mean, the outcome is good for the west. good for american producers, and it's asking, are you crying to be maybe a little bit pregnant to your thoughts? we, i think nato submits, in general, tend to be a bit underwhelming. there's a great deal of fostering and narrative, but little in the way of bold uh, meaningful score. seeing that turkey dropped its opposition to sweden joining but in terms of ukraine,
6:35 am
the cat received membership even bite and acknowledge that out loud. so what can nato do for ukraine? well, nato expected the where to go much differently, better for ukraine, worse for russia, and that has not happened. so nato has little in the way of tangible options, except to continue the 3 broad categories of age that is provided thus far, assistance. the western weapons and targeting intelligence of in the life blood of the war effort for a year and a half for ukraine. but the west has little left to give an ukraine has dwindling manpower. so nato can continue to supply some weapons and ammunition, but likely lesser and both on the quantity of this will alter the outcome of the war in a perceptible manner. and the same is true for the western intelligence and the staff planning assistance. the facts on the ground simply favour russia. the 2nd broad category is money. so enormous infusions of western cash are the only reason the government in ukraine can operate. so nato will likely continue to provide some financial assistance. but again,
6:36 am
this has no real impact on the result of the war. aside from continuing to keep the government afloat. and the 3rd category is the 4 of the same platitudes out of the summit. you know, stay the course for as long as it takes things like that. there might even be some sort of half hearted, non binding pledge that at the end of the war, they might allow ukraine to join. the problem of course, is that this is hollow, russel launched in special military operation in part to prevent the idea that russia would allow a conclusion of the war that would lead to ukraine joining just seems not very likely. jo. k. j. a guy. i'm really glad lee gave a excellent summation of all the most important points and i agree with them. but i can't tell you, i mean, if you really take a step back, this is this nato, his way of keeping the war going. but just want to keep going, because out of, of all of the, the, the ink that has been spill. no one's talking about an outcome of this conflict. and that is, since we're not talking about an outcome,
6:37 am
maybe san francisco. you're absolutely right. nato has a vested interest in keeping this going, as we know from the get go, this idea was to bleed russia and to cause as much damage. and so they're looking at protracted war. i absolutely agree that it has an interest in keeping the board going. if there is going to be any promise that that ukraine would join a deep contradictions built in to. busy this pastoring and i think the other piece that we have to notice is that at the same time that nato is pastoring and the same time. we also see that it's making maneuvers asia, most notably a liaison office into japan. we already know that nato has i t p p and uh, you know, uh, yeah, personalized plans of relationships with multiple countries. and i think the next thing that we have to watch out for is natal going to seek to expand into the asia
6:38 am
pacific. well, the nato has grand ambitions. that's for sure. the door is always open. okay. except for the countries they deem to be threats or they create as threats as they didn't look. i mean it's, it's really interesting. i mean, you live on the european continent. it's obvious the, by the ministration doesn't want to ukraine in nato, because then there wouldn't be obligations towards the ukraine. so they don't want it in, in, in the alliance. they want this war to keep going. they want to be immigration problem, migration problems to continue doesn't bother the americans, the economies of europe continue to dwindle here. i mean, it's a good deal for the americans. look, a citizen comes on the back of the this, the ukraine's as a freshman, she's done. so it's perfect, mister blinking, repeated it a few weeks ago when he said that he was not for peace on negotiations. you was for the continuation of more. and if you remember the,
6:39 am
the date of incident he got was february 9th and all the minutes stop identifies the secretary of state of thomas promised to go. but chuck, good nature would not move when the page to be impressed. maybe st presence of thought or i'll do, i'll put it in his name was a frenchman, it's the all american promise. and i mean, since this is incredible today, of course, since the past 14, they are preparing all things. and it is a publication of total provocation. the wish doesn't see you because we have very good propaganda. you know, price here in here. well, i actually wouldn't say it's good propaganda. i mean, i think during the cold war is a lot more subtle. it's about subtle at all anymore. right now. serious, you know, and talk to you about this. um, it, it is, you know, nato is about security of its members countries, but they don't want to talk about you pay in europe and security. and that is the
6:40 am
problem here and extending the alliance isn't going to create security actually in security. and that is the greatest fault of nato. it doesn't think about security of others. lee, go ahead and i found yeah, i agree. so during the civically to counter the soviet union and its eastern block allies will after the cold war, that reason vanished. but not only did nato continue to exist, it expanded and conducted out of area operations. and most importantly, offensive operations as we saw 1st in the were on serbia, 1999. so when we compare the defensive alliance to an expanding office of alliance, that clearly does not contribute to stability on the continent. okay, well, the exact concept uh, during the cold war was developed during the, what's called the helsinki process is the indivisibility of security. they never use one country can increase its security at the expense of another. everybody agreed to that they don't anymore. go ahead and san francisco. yes, i mean,
6:41 am
this is fun dimensions. any notion of security is that you cannot increase your security at the expense of my or somebody else to protect my car of by putting play more mines on my bumper is because that makes me feel more secure. so this notion of individual security, which is foundational fundamental to a, a saying that rational world order has. so if we look at, for example, the chinese proposal on the ukraine of a political settlement for the ukraine. they talk about this process. it's the 2nd clause in the position paper, but certainly from the standpoint of nato and the stand point of the united states as it manipulates nato. a mutual security is completely gone out the window. yeah. and located the tow, under the leadership of the united states, is not to protect the crane, but to destroy russia as another fundamental flaw. this organization. luke,
6:42 am
a lot of the two's clearly since 2014, we've seen that and the on the industrial maybe too complex. so the west is, is incredibly use something, couple beneficiary. what happens because the box most that the europeans of buying, poland, for example, or germany, american muslims, right? not your p. o frank stripes. sell where i fall in all the things they take on. the old address is julie american. and it's cash. you know that lensky says it's 3000000000 noodle or we've got the great needs you to kind of follow suit all the mrs fatherland, ask a 50000000000 euro and then again, 50000000000 euro. and now you have the bad pupils and the golf like this. the organs saying, we are boss, this is of all the way we call a. so the,
6:43 am
from nato n, for the friends of you crap. yeah. but lo, clevi, you know, don't donald trump with can complain that the europeans wouldn't pay enough and then that's a fair argument. but to be your point here is that they, they want to your arms. do i have the calculation? correct? because it is what happens. you know, that's the 5, the amount of compliance for like germany paul, i'm going to try to evade properties from be part of the, the deal that got striking billions. so i'll get some, it's something which is, which is incredibly bad for your incredibly bad because of medicare at the same time is the strong, our capacity to do markets that will good for you. what they, what is because they want to conquer new markets and having an a for another for river war. i mean, the, the asked in griffin came to an end, and nope, no coincidence. ukraine came into play. gentlemen, we'd have to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the nato summit in building estate without
6:44 am
the the love seat and the muscles do. if you look on the, shall be one of us a gift. can you live 1st on zillow while it be almost getting used to put value when you, when you do origin, but you also still, this is done the newest 3 system that you do what i see these the buses, the little cute, little dice and says do some uh duty to have done both of the
6:45 am
welcome ex across dock were all things are considered. i'm peter roosevelt. you mind you were discussing the nickel summit. didn't build this the ok, let's go back to lee lee. i mean, again, the build up the propaganda build up to this a summit. here. i'm actually very confused because i keep talking about the future of the future of the alliance. because the terms and conditions for a membership for ukraine and so forth to their, i mean, we don't even know what kind of ukraine is going to exist. it's a, it's borders. we have no idea. we don't know what kind of economic strength it will have. we didn't have no idea what its population is going to be, and we have no idea is it is a european union. good it forever pay for a rump state. i mean indeed, they are
6:46 am
a 1st. i don't believe you created would ever be allowed into nato that i, i agree with you. i agree with you. yeah. yeah, i don't believe by that. i mean, i don't believe russia would ever allow it to happen, as i mentioned earlier. but within this context of the hypothetical, that western leaders continue to propose of to this post or ukraine and what they're going to do for it. and rebuilding and membership and various western alliances. i think it is most of ukraine, russia controls now and is likely to control at the end of the war comprise most of the countries ged, including its heavy industry. so whatever is left would indeed be a romper, but largely agricultural nature. deferral probably will have to rely on the western need. so i agree with the question to because they're out there all the i and it's come across these conferences about investing in ukraine and say, well what ukraine are you talking about? okay. and if, if the, the outcome is, is at odds with, with rush you want, then there's always the likelihood that the conflict could continue. who wants to
6:47 am
invest in an environment like that, go ahead in san francisco. well, they're really talking about investing in war uh, the language about investment. ultimately it boils down again as we pointed out before to the military industrial complex. and so this is, you know, and it's crude, a small one, a military keynesian isn't a united states also understands that it is the military is the only part of its industrial capacity, which is still functioning on the high level. it wants to add that up even further . it's also doing it's outsourcing to india. once again, what we see is this preparation of a military industrial chain that is creating a kind of enclosed set among its vassals. and then it's going to add that on even further with the united states, it's extracting the value from the continued process of murder and violence. yeah, it look, if i can tap into your experience being
6:48 am
a european living in brussels, i came across a day, a report sent to polls. polls a poland, one ukraine in nato. well, i mean, poland, one of the hard line to here. what is public opinion in europe? i mean, is it essentially the same? my point is, there's a who were the people ever asked about this, or they were never austin's goals and gets his spending difference in poland and the rest of your full and isn't about is, are in the sense that they have of feet with a, with rush of the cause of, of the whole the, the case and in the centuries in the pos that were conquered 4 times, or 5 minus spot 5 russian. so that is a hatred in, in bowling for, for actual or will not be all settled immediately. the rest of you, that's something say in germany the pacifist people want against the small
6:49 am
want to get out of numerous 40, which is now at 21 percent is very much against the water ukraine. they want this to stop it. now they don't want any more military equipment coming from jet. jeremy wants to build factories to, to assemble tanks in your credit. i wonder how long, how long they would last under under actually not mist sites, but um, it is the same across, you know, it is a launch a position that is now silent because call told about it. so it's sort of a few, the defense of russia and all the issue of ukraine. you cannot, and most of the politicians shut off the so be let it let it pass. but really, the population of people never voted 40, never accepted it officially because never issue shooting. you're like it's a real problem. it's lee. it's very interesting. yeah, we can throw in american domestic politics for a 2nd. i mean, you have to,
6:50 am
well known a candidates running for the presidency, bobby junior. they don't agree with washington. everyone in washington is wrong. that's my opinion. but it's east to outside or is that are saying different, different things and they have get a lot of traction. quite interesting. don't you think i certainly do. and it's something that i've seen play out in many for instances. and that is people on opposite sides of the spectrum are all very dissatisfied with the status quote, which is to say with the establishment exactly, or some people talk about this horse. you theory not such a big fan of that. but what i think is there's been a small sort of ruling elite, the club that all is at the expense of others and largely for a dissatisfaction among those who are not a part of that. yeah, it's very interested in k a, it's a, you know, i'm, i would say i was taken off of youtube where on rumbled though and other platforms
6:51 am
i was banished from. don't they don't like any debate? you know, i think you have to understand this as a kind of hyper, as warfare the information warfare is key. and for example, you know, in standard baffled doctrine, before you send in the infantry, you send an air cover and you send an odd salary to suppress fire so that you can send in your infantry. it's the same process that happens, but on a higher level before you start a war or while a war is going, you also want to suppress any piece activism, any resistance toward. and so this information ward is literally a way of suppressing any to send any resistance, any of any going to the justification of the war. so this is what we're seeing right now. the information warfare is the pretended and the sub genetic dimension of this ongoing war. yeah, but local, we've seen that happened in, in europe, but in
6:52 am
a physical consequences of what's going on with the economy in europe because of the conflict. and you know, you can propagandized all you want, but germany is the industrialized. and you can't fudge that, luke, for after they didn't for a long time. but now they stop talking about the fact that the, the energy issue is essential for german industry. for example, in industry and other companies, but especially germany like the capital industry that needs a lot of gas and they don't get any stuff, get it by the way, 16 or 20 percent on uh through the brotherhood by plan oh, through ukraine, thanks to ukraine. no problem and to kinda keep to the south trying to um, to the bulk of the office, somebody into austria. so it's not that simple and you cannot replace these by d. n g from america most immediately, we need 500 more ships to transport, but allergy that will be billed and it takes to very,
6:53 am
very expensive. it is awfully expensive and about giving your opinions. so a better price for the gas. so it is free on minnes complained to america, the likelihood scores of saying you should make an effort to reduce the price of your gas. so we have a technical issue, energy for industry in europe, and installing the worsening of now because of 12 of november. we have again rise, and the price of oil and gas with the window is lee is if the american public prepared for another forever war. i mean it's, it's really quite amazing. you know, i, in the wake of the iraq war again, but it does, it's a pattern. it continues to happen over and over again. i think so, the american public doesn't want another forever war. the question is, what can they will? because let's remember, the us to not declare war on russia is prosecuting
6:54 am
a proxy war against russia and ukraine as a matter of policy. and that policy is decided by the people who are in charge. and we get very few other alternatives when we go to the ballot box because the party system and generally prevent the outside hers from coming along and making it to that level to 2016 of course, was a huge exception. people didn't expect to controlling the options, such that policy makers can really kind of go on as they want without consequences . has been the order of the day for quite some time. and i can't say it's really interesting is that russia gay to the hoax, a blood into policy, and it's really field on this demon is ation of russia. and it actually is worked for the leads just as we just pointed out. it's never on the ballot box, but it's always implied and went from foreign policy to domestic policy. go ahead in san francisco. you're absolutely right. i mean,
6:55 am
this entire russian gate of frame is old, and it's not only serves the domestic political purposes, but it's the foundation under which is the implicit foundation under which this war is waged. russia as being a friend to the united states. it's been a fred, to europe, etc. of course, all of this is, you know, propaganda, the essential threat to your event on currently, the united states is the country that is the industrialized in europe. and we have to understand this war and not simply as a way to bleed russia out, but also as a way of keeping europe under vassal status to the united states. thing. i mean, obviously, you know, you don't, you never want to be an enemy of the united states. i mean, there were countless more z uh, in the last 60 years, but being americans, friends. well, apparently we can ask who luke and brussels are due to verify that for all of us gentlemen, we've run out of time. i want to thank my guess in charlottesville,
6:56 am
san francisco, and in brussels. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at archie. see you next time. remember, trust the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality. distortion by power of tired vision, with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify it will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just because it shows it images presented to this by can you see through their illusion going underground, can a
6:57 am
good fit for you? i'm afraid to set up the possibilities. we'll continue dates and then we may expect to the escalation because i don't see any sincere demand for the piece of it. let me do some oversight, but that would be more sections introduced, aggravates the situation and it died. oh, i see you decide to keep up this war in the interest of us. i mean, the, the, this is a strong message, political message, just on political message. there is that a d and a stronger message from they don't strong message to ukraine. the membership as the nato summit in building this leads you pray, disappointed at not being offered into the block the f b, i concluded with thank you premium security service to center for.
11 Views
Uploaded by TV Archive on
![](http://athena.archive.org/0.gif?kind=track_js&track_js_case=control&cache_bust=107191804)