i post, of course, in any country, and it's clear on it's clear that what's wants to undermine the entire sort of environment and stay in all. that's why that's why they're aiming as well. and, and also because publicly here's the highest official that is publicly not renounced. we're talking me visits for us. so, and that's something that bothers them very much. you know, they want everyone to be, you know, in lots to, you know, no, no, not, no, the history showing word. i mean, we had a couple of months ago, we had the american ambassador here in washington yard here, here in belgrade, he actually advised people in survey or not to even look east for, you know, so when didn't more than that, he actually traveled there as the chief of the spy agency, and that's something that's intolerable for, for, for the americans. it sends a very bad a flood has, hey, it's a moving indian stays off the too much moved. it was released from

a local them. so i think footage from eye witness to show massive volumes of voltage sweeping across the area that's off of the states on the national hydro electric power corporation is charged to heavy rain full and the heavy areas of northern india. the situation has reported the left several people dead with millions of dollars. the many things for a company here. we don't see international plenty more to be found on the,

the, the hello and welcome to cross live l, the data. so i'm, it didn't build. this is a pond, it's the only certain outcome is that ukraine will not be invited to join the alliance any time. soon. in the meantime, ukraine is asked to sacrifice a young man on a promise that will probably never be kept. washington likes it that way. the cross walk in the nato summit, i'm joined by my guest, lead slusher, in charlottesville. he is an intelligence and you appear to be consulting in san francisco. we have t. j. no, he is a political analyst, and journalist and in brussels. we have luke renee, he is an independent journalist. all right, gentlemen, cross pap, rules and a fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated, lee,

let me go to you 1st and charlottesville. you know, it's all over the news. it's a big deal. it's the most important. some of nato has had, you know, since forever and all miles. okay, fine. there's something called a map. you know, it's a, a process for, for ukraine to get into nato. what other countries had to do to accept professional in sweden they were exempt. okay, we could talk about that, but this is a, is a slippery path because you know, this exemption, it doesn't get demanded. they have political reform, a routing out really deep seated corruption and it really just says, you know, inter operability, they will buy weapons or so. i mean the outcome is good for the west. good for american producers, and it's asking, are you crying to be maybe a little bit pregnant to your thoughts? we, i think nato summit, the welding. there's a great deal of fostering and narrative, but a little in the way of bold, meaningful change that the big new story right now. of course the engine to so we can joining but in terms of ukraine tab,

receive membership even by and acknowledge that out loud. so what can nieto do for ukraine? well, nato expected the where to go much differently, better for ukraine, worse for russia, and that has not happened. so nato has little in the way of tangible options, except to continue the 3 broad categories at the 1st of course is military assistance. the western weapons in targeting intelligence have been the lifeblood of the war effort for a year and a half for ukraine. but the west has little left to give. and ukraine has, can continue to supply some weapons and ammunition, but likely lesser and both on quantity in quality. and none of this will alter the outcome of the war in a perceptible manner. and the same is true for the western intelligence on the staff planning assistance. the facts on the ground simply favour russia. the 2nd broad category is money. so enormous infusions of western cash are the only reason the government in ukraine can operate. so nato will likely continue to provide some financial assistance, but again to the war,

aside from continuing to keep the government afloat. and the 3rd category is promises. so i would expect more of the same platitudes out of the summit. you know, stay the course for as long as a teacher might even be some sort of half hearted, non binding pledge that at the end of the war, they might allow ukraine to join. the problem of course, is that this is hollow, russel launched in special military operation and part to prevent ukraine that russia would allow a conclusion of the war that would lead to ukraine joining just seems not very likely. you know, he gave of excellent summation of all the most important points and i agree with them. but i can't tell you, i mean, if you really take a step back or going, they just want to keep going. because out of all of that, the, the ink that has been spill, no one's talking about an outcome of this conflict, and that is, since they're not talking about an outcome, they just want to keep pursuing it. your thoughts in san francisco, nato has a vested interest in keeping this going, as we know. so from the get go,

this idea was to bleed russia and to cause as much damage. and so they're looking at protracted war. i absolutely agree that also on russia's and it has an interest in keeping the board going, if there is going to be that, that you create with join at the conclusion of the war. so there's some deep contradictions built in uh to all this pastoring. and i think the other piece at the same time that nato is clustering and increasing its rhetoric the same time. we also see that it's making maneuvers towards expanding into asia, most notably a liaison office into japan. so these are pieces that we have to watch. we already know that nato has i t p, p and you know of, of relationships with multiple countries. and i think with the next, it's obvious the, by the ministration doesn't want to ukraine and nato because then that would be

obligations towards ukraine. so they don't want it in, in, in the alliance. they want this war to keep going. they want to be immigration problem, migration problems to continue doesn't bother the americans, the economies of europe continue to dwindle here. i mean, it's a good deal for the americans. look as a citizen, white proxy know young americans all the battles, deal this, the ukrainians, answer the questions you've done. so it's perfect. mr. blinking repeated it a few weeks ago when you said that he was not for peace, all negotiations. you was for the continuation for and if you remember the, the date of incident he got was february 9th, 1991, james baker, and all the minister of foreign affairs. the secretary of state of promise promised to gorbachev. good. nato will not move when the page to the east in presence of

guests to the gentleman by the same presence of uh, order. i'll do, i'll put it in his friend. was a frenchman, no american promise? and i mean, since this is incredible today, of course, since the past 14, they are preparing your brain for this coughing. and it is a prototype which doesn't see you because we have very good propaganda. you know, price here in here. well, i actually wouldn't say it's good propaganda. i mean, i think during the cold war is a lot more subtle. it's a lot subtle at all anymore. right now. you know, lee, one of the things, it's very curious, you know, and talk to you about this. somebody to hear a t of it's members countries, but they don't want to talk about you pan european security. and that is the problem here and extending the alliance isn't going to create security actually in security. and that is the greatest fault of nato. it doesn't think about the headings i found, so yeah, i agree. so during the cold war, nieto was created specifically to counter the soviet union and its eastern block

allies will after the cold war that reason vanished. but not only did nato continue to exist, it expanded it conducted out of area offensive operations, as we saw 1st in the war on serbia, 1999. so when we compare the defensive alliance to an expanding off and some tribute to stability on the continent. oh, okay, well exactly, and, and uh, take a that was this concept uh, during the cold war, it was developed during the, what's called the helsinki process is the indivisibility of security. they never use that term anymore. it means that one conference of another, everybody agreed to that they don't anymore. go ahead in san francisco. yes, i mean, this is kwan dimensions. any notion of security is that you cannot increase your security at the expense of my or somebody else's security. my car of by putting play more mines on my bumper is because that makes me feel more secure. so this

notion of individual security, which is foundational fundamental to a saying that rational world order has been completely discarded. and so if we look at, for example, the chinese proposal on the ukraine of a political settlement for the ukraine. they talk about this process. it's the 2nd clause in the position paper. but so understand point of the united states as it manipulates nato. a mutual security is completely gone out the window. yeah. and look at the, the aim of, of, of nato protected crane, but to destroy russia. that's another fundamental flaw this organization. luke, a lot of the two's clearly since 2014 was saying that and the on the industrial maybe too complex of the west is, is incredibly, you something companies fishery. what happens because the european stop buying

poland products on hold for germany. all american weapons right? not europe. the french tried to sell where i fall and i'll change the date. they called the old address is jolene american. and the problem seems to be not in utah, is cash. you know that lensky says it's 3000000000 euro a week of dollars a week that the great needs you cannot follow suit all the mrs fatherland ask for 50000000000 euro and then again, 50000000000 euro. and now you have the bad pupils of the golf. like this, this is of all the way we call pay. so this is the next problem, faulty from nato n. for the friends of you, right? yeah, but the low creevy, you know, dealt with donald trump with can complain that the europeans wouldn't argument. but to be your point here is that they, they want the europeans to pay more, but to buy american arms, do i have the calculation? correct?

because it is what happens, you know, the pass code, the 5, the amount of complaints for like germany with paul. i'm going to try to you very probably from the bottom of the, the deal that the striking 1000000000. so i'll get some credit the bad for you're incredibly bad because america at the same time is the strong our capacity to choose that well, lou, and for what they, what is because they want to conquer new markets and having an a for another for river war i mean, the, the ask dan griffith came to an end, and nope, no coincidence. you could go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the nato summit in building estate without the the

russian states never see as tight as on one of the most sense the sun set up the poles. question about this, even though we will ben in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on russia to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly. on the 7th. what question did you say to stephen twist, which is the take a fresh look around, there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't good. so the, to the stores and buy power tired vision with no real opinions.

fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few is presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the welcome ex, across stock, were all things are considered. i'm peter roosevelt. you mind you were discussing the nature of some it didn't build this. the ok, let's go back to lee lee. i mean, again, the build up the propaganda build up to this summit. here. i'm actually about the future of the future of the alliance of the terms and conditions for a membership for ukraine and so forth. but, you know, we're not even close to there. i mean,

we don't even know what kind of ukraine is going to exist. it's a, it's borders. we have no idea. we don't know what kind of economic strength they will have. we don't have no idea what its population is going to be. and we have no idea is it is the european union and get it forever. pay for a rump state. i mean, these are all valid questions. we indeed they are, the 1st i don't believe ukraine would ever be allowed in to new. i agree with you. yeah. yeah, i don't believe by that. i mean, i don't believe russia whatever allow it to happen, as i mentioned earlier. but within this context of the hypothetical, that western leaders continue to propose of this post or ukraine and what they're going to do for it. and rebuilding and membership and various western alliances. i think 80 parts of ukraine russia controls now and is likely to control at the end of the war comprise most of the countries gdc including its heavy industry. so whatever is left would indeed be a romp of it largely agricultural nature. deferral probably will have to,

i agree with you. okay, j k j say the same question too because they're out there all the i come across these conferences about investing in ukraine and say, well what ukraine are you talking about? okay? and if, if the, the outcome is, is at odds with, with rush who wants then there's always the likelihood that the conflict could continue. who wants to invest in an environment like that. go ahead and separates cisco? well, they're really todd the you know, the language about investment. ultimately it boils down again as we pointed out before to the military. industrial, you know, and it's crude, a small one, a military chains. you know, some of the united states also understands that it is the military is the only part of its industrial conditioning on the high level. it wants to add that up even further. it's also doing is out sourcing to india, korea and japan. and so what, once again, what we see is this preparation of a military industrial chain that is creating a kind of enclosed set among its vassals. and then it's going to add that on even

further with the united states, ex, extra and continued process of murder and violence. yeah, it look, if i can tap into your experience being a european living in brussels, i came across a day a report that a little less than 50 percent of poles, poles, a poland, one ukraine in nato. well, i mean po and one of the hard liners in the european union is public opinion in europe. i mean, is it essentially the same? my point is there's a democracy deficit here. who were the people ever asked about this? they were never austin's goes and gets his full and isn't about as a are in the sense that they have foot feet with the, with rush of the cause of, of the over the decades. and in the centuries in the pasta were conquered 4 times

or 5, it's a hatred in, in bowling for, for a shuttle or a problem that will not be all settled immediately. the rest of you, that's something to say in germany, the pacifist people walk against the small ones, the 1st sponsor, you know, position b a, b which is now at 21 percent is very much against the water ukraine. they want this to stop it. now they don't want any more military equipment coming from. jeremy wants to build factories to, to on a simple things in your credit. i wonder how long, how long they would last and the direction not missile. you know, it's a launch, a position that is now silent because call told about it. so it's sort of been to, to, to come from the defense of prussia and, and all the issue a few crime. you cannot. and most of politicians shut off the sort of really the

population. people may have a good 40 method accepted it officially because several issues during elections. and um, uh, it's a real problem. it's lee. it's very interesting here we can throw in american domestic politics for a 2nd. i mean, you have to, well known a candidates running for the presidency, bobby junior and donald trump. washington, everyone in washington is wrong. that's my opinion. but it's east too outside or is that are saying different, different things and they have get a lot of traction. quite interesting. don't you think? and it's something that i've seen play out in many different instances. and that is people on the opposite side of the spectrum. are all very dissatisfied with the status quo, which is to say with the establishment exactly, or some people talk about this for a few theory and not such a big fan of that. but what i think is there's been a small sort of ruling lead to crush themselves at the expense of others and

largely run things into the ground. so there's just widespread dissatisfaction among those who are not a part of that. yeah, it's very interesting, kasia, it's a, you know, i'm, i would say that was taken off of youtube where on rumble though, and other platforms that i was banished for on came back. i mean, they get paid at all 0. did the hybrids warfare the information warfare is key? and, for example, you know, in standard baffled doctrine, before you send in the infantry, you send an air cover and you send an artillery to suppress the fire so that you can send in. you also. so it happens, but on a higher level, before you start a war or while a war is going, you also want to suppress any piece activism, any resistance toward. and so this information ward is literally a way of suppressing any disease of any challenge, to the notion onto the justification of the war. so this is what we're seeing right

now. the information warfare is the pretended and the sub genetics. the mention of this ongoing war. yeah, the logo is, you know, there there's, there's a real physical consequences of what's going on with the economy in europe because of the conflict. and you know, you can prepare money is the industrialized thing. you can't fudge that, luke for and um, the press thoughts talking about the they didn't for a long time. there's not a stop to fact that the, the end it for the german industry for example, and industry in other countries. but especially germany like capital street got needs a lot of gas and they don't get any stuff getting the bottom way. 15 or 20 percent . or i guess from russia on uh through the brotherhood by blind oh, through ukraine. thanks. ukraine. no problem. and too touchy to the soft trying to to the balkans of the office. i'm going into austria. so it's not that simple

allergy from america most mediately, we need 500 more ships to transport, but allergy that haven't been built and it takes you to very, very, it is awfully expensive and american doesn't give us a favor by giving your opinions. so a better price for the gas, so it is free for the full minutes, blaine to america, the likelihood scores of saying you should make an effort to reduce the price of your gas. so we have a gaming g for industry in europe, and it's solely worsening. now, because of dropping off and but wouldn't have it can rise in the price of oil and gas because of the lack of gas with the window you legally prepared for another forever war. i mean it's, it's really quite amazing. you know, i, in the wake of the iraq war, never again will never let this happen again. but it does, it's a pattern. it continues to happen. i think so the american public doesn't want

another forever war. the question is, what can they do? and it seems a timber to us to not declare war on russia. it's prosecuting a proxy war against russia and ukraine as a matter of policy. and that policy is decided by the people who are in charge and we get very few. so when we go to the ballot box, because the party systems generally prevent outsiders from coming along and to get to that level. so 2016 of course was huge exceptions. people didn't expect trump to make it that far, such that policy makers can really kind of go on as they want, without consequences. has been the order of the day for quite some time. and i'm a k j. it's really interesting is that russia gay to the hoax, a blood into policy, and it's really this d immunization of russia. and it actually is work for the elite just as we just pointed out. it's never on the ballad box, but it's always implied and went from foreign policy to domestic policy. go ahead

and san francisco. you're absolutely right. i mean, this entire russian gate of framing has been very, very instrumental. and it's not only serves the domestic political purposes, but it's the foundation under which it's the implicit foundation under which this war is waged, russia dates, it's been a threat to europe, etc. of course, all of this is, you know, propaganda. the essential threat to europe into the world is the united states. currently, the united states is the country that is d industrialized in europe. and we have to understand this war and not simply as a way to bleed russia out, but also as a way of keeping your under 5 states. it's really quite interesting. i mean, obviously, you know, you don't, you never want to be an enemy of the united states. i mean there were counselors more z uh, in the last friend is not in very good place as well. apparently, we can ask luke and brussels to do to verify that for all of us gentlemen,

we've run out of time. i want to thank my guess in charles and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our d. c. and next time, remember, trust the of the toner, it'll see skit they see, they will see sketches at those last i was i movie on is zacko. go on that good option and you know, he's, uh, put it put up on your not issue for the state taxation. you folks have tried, i'm not sure, but i, she's just showing as a baton law would love to see those sheets a little bit ago. there's a little c a years ago. it's not the sales custom goes. i can see it was the months

ago. i'm a bonus kid. she was barely now and about the show on 2nd most to go to court or from so from dignity to go to your open when you get to mind for sure, most of quite catch that the score can. yeah. and the console people do it by if you will, saves the sky. i'm afraid as to the possibilities, we'll continue takes and then we may expect to escalate any associated demand for peace in your vision. there's no peace settlement. so obviously aggravates the situation at the time you decide to keep up. this was in the interest of us, i ministration simple, the business, a strong message, political message that strong political message is that strong united road map to

membership as a native pointed at not being offered as sports in the blog. also ahead and they took my.