the government believes sisters to god ludy what i see these the buses. the little gear limitation says this to the to have done both of the hello and welcome across stock. were all things are considered non peter level is in time for top 10 hospitals and ukraine. well, more and more so called russia experts seem to think so. the fundamental question, the 1st must be ask, who shouldn't be doing the, talking the people who lied ukraine into conflict and divided the world

the or discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess martin j america. she is an award winning journalist and commentator in budapest, we cross the george semi while he's a pod cast. read the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. are gentlemen cross up rules and perfect . that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. well, let's start out with george in budapest, george you suggested that we discussed the foreign affairs issue that came out in july, 13th of this year, with the a group of articles under the rubric of should ukraine negotiate with russia, which has a very interesting title, but none of the articles actually addressed that issue. ok, well, i thought it'd be really interesting, but unremarkable. but all of these articles be going into orbit around the core issue of regime change in russia. security was not mentioned whatsoever. pan

european security was not mentioned amazingly, no context whatsoever. the middle school process was mentioned once, but incorrectly. the, the, it was not contextualize, the legal overdraw of power in, in kelvin. 2014 was not mentioned whatsoever, but of course for us it breaks all of its agreements, but no mention of what able to merkel have to say or alarm about the mental process . nothing, no context whatsoever. and this is supposed to be the collected just deal with us, the foreign policy establishment in the united states. foreign affairs taken away towards the yeah, absolutely. spot on the the, the well, in the original off they pulled the trigger this symposium as far enough as had in the summer, tentative incipient way suggest the that, well this war has reached the style. nice. so it's time for uh,

so kind of in the go see a to our com but he'd be the, the original, the suggested an honest this. and the ma that he suggested was a korea on this, this and that the piece last it was 70 years that now the response, as he said, a of these foreign affairs may have um, was absolute outraged. i says, is it, how can we possibly talk with russia and it is decided because it's broken owners agreements and we can't possibly trust them. and besides the, you know, ukraine is winning this war, you know, you for, you know, just give it a little bit more and i'm giving you the law and your brain when and precaution pre goes and goes into the golden elena. i know how many times i think i called about 12 times the name for goes in, came up. uh, even though it doesn't in any way, prove the points because that's all the cool. cool. well to say, well, the mutant it wasn't successful. and 2nd of all, if it had been successful,

it would've been even worse for any prospect of a negotiated outcome. but at the same time, you can see why they are so outraged at the prospect. so my goal, she ations, because ultimately the ukraine channelled when this war, i mean, it's obvious that you can kind of defeat russia there's, it's just the mathematically impossible it is this just strategically impossible. so, and the foreign policy establishment, nose is now and then they have 2 conclusions to draw if, if the boy kind of win this war, then you can either say enough already. let's bring this done after some, during this may have missed on that so many people have already died. what's the point of just sending more, a young man into the meat. right. and that's cool. you know, may, joe can take over the 5 d from ukraine and say, okay, well, we're going to do it. you can't do it. you know, what will take on russia now that nato, as please said, that they don't want to do that. and especially they say that the villainy

assignment, you cry to great comment because we don't want to go to will withdraw. so we don't want to level 3. well, you've concluded that then essentially, what do you have? you have to admit that your policy has failed. this whole thing has been absolutely fair and then you're sure bye to do that. was available month, some months ago, a year ago in the that's. that's absolutely. and they cannot, they admit more than the candidate, but this has been a failure. and a, i'd be remiss not to just mention what george just said here. there was a peace process in s them both weeks out to become like started and afford affairs actually reported it out after the actual events is if it was like breaking news, which all of us have been talking about in real time when it was happening. so if you, if the russians and the ukrainians were negotiate and the premiums were appear to be in agreement and then boy scouts and shows up to the,

to collapse these talks here. but so the ukrainians, a lot of we labor, it could be with the russians in good faith to get an agreement. it was the west that otherwise more it does come down to who we negotiate, where it's, i think, and i have to seriously doubt whether savanski is the man i set on rushing tv all to you just a few days ago in a news program that i think may be in 6 months time, he may not even be the the zelinski is not the man to do it. he's just like the west, like his western puppets. he seems to be stuck in this cook who knows indulgent narrative. um, no, since web i, you know, he called seeing as a clinic and these all across the you in georgia are leading to this office space um, which is quite well risk. i must say that was very, very paternalistic. i'm, you know, very delusional about the role of the west and there was, i'm the time which kept coming through,

which made me chuckle as i read it. which was this thing about the values which was the west always had to higher ground. and they had, this mo accumulates which it needed to live up to such me. and most of the russian people, you know, who was a little sort of 2nd rate people and clinton was this all said right, lead to, you know, if there was a reference in the off cool to, um, we called have peace talks um, to russia, sort of gives up, it's a good rest if only the sees around the world and returns to the table, all responsible nations. now think about that phrase, disposable nations. you'll giggling, we're ready, because i know what you're thinking. i know what your, what is the responsible nations, would these be the same responsible nation? is that motion to back down in 2003? and next, what was that i'm saying go to the 1st day and then refuse to pick up the type of paying all of his soldiers back pay, which then resulted in them creating what we now know today at organization code isis. well, those responsible nations,

the same ones who went into afghanistan for 20 years and left the country and it was stage. and what impulse, when they went in and actually, you know, in crystallize to and the tunnel button. i made them a bigger, more powerful and that's really the point implied. martin brought this up. i mean, these are okay. they're well written. okay. they finally got an editors without the prose. that's fine with me. it makes it, it makes it easier to read but, but with georgia it's, it's a moral argument and this is not a moral issue. this is a security issue. and again, when you look at the, the, just doing down all of the, this verbiage right here. russia is that right? it is not recognize that pressure has legitimate security interest. that's why this conflict happen. and that's why it's going to be very difficult to resolve. because up until then, if they don't recognize, right, as security interest, russia has no interest in talking bull style. no, absolutely right then and the mouth and brings up iraq. and yes,

the assumption on the line all of these optic goes, is that there is indeed this cods, right, all responsible nation's acting seriously, judiciously, responsibly weighing the decisions on that roster. on the other hand is just the a while the savage it on the world stage has no idea how to do anything in the proper fashion. and because it's the exact opposite of the truth. but yes, they, they don't recognize the russians that you are the interest being all of the, all, those only focus on ukraine security interest. but the reason we've got to was precisely because then russia outline is security issues and has been doing so for years and years and years. i mean, we go back to the 2007 and the tokens unit costs are generally going from stage 2008 know broken. i'd really responded to that to do the nato invitation for

ukraine's or joining the organization. you made clear that the roster is not not going to just accept in the over and over again. russia of repeated this point, this is a threat to well security. and then when 2014, this rabidly russell phobic regime, c spy, all the people who had actually lost the election in 2010. they, they, they were now in power off. first thing they did was basically they will, they pass the new language will essentially, outlawing russian has an official language and certain parts of your brain. but uh, they also move immediately to uh to overturn the pre, just as the other go with this policy and move into the nature of the rush. it was go back to respond with great suspicion. and we know that if it had been the other way, the americans would love his that they didn't, they weren't the years and years the russia hesitated before are moving in as

mexico. we know there was a magazine american government would have seized power, made clear that it's now go to joint arrival, hostile military lines. the americans would have moved into mexico city. within days they would have seized the mexican leave, the bundled him off in a plane in the bar that yeah and put the can put him on to. 5 they would have put him on trial and sentenced him to live in prison. on those i did was noriega, they wouldn't live in any hesitation. and the media would've been clapping and said, absolutely marika is absolutely justified about the security in this world wireless . as of the kind of created this absolute, delusional international situation. it was even, they only was very, a very short reference. and i'll talk about the corpus anything takes a while to read these articles. it was a reference, i think was and to a step of the, you know, the rest is a security proposals before the complex started the december before given come in,

just completely dismissed. i mean, but this was, this was, this was made transparently clear the, there will be consequences if there is not negotiations on these issues. and so again, you can't trust the russians, but you can't trust the west even when they're given a stead of agreements. they may not a problem degree because they will, that's a starting point. isn't that what the point of all these articles, this is where is the starting point? we had one before the complex started. yeah, but george named it when he used to what delusional and that's absolutely true. there's so much god, what's, what's going on now in the west is just the same. our solution is a much right seeing the narrative, which is written by people who are just blinded by the own dog. and i can't see anything straight. i think it was a point was made just a few days ago on, on british television, the always seemed to see on british the tv nurse is, you know, the few victories that you kind of is might have isolated victory is also reported

on too much. and of course, the stage is not reported on so on. you know, this, this some sort of way of reporting on, on the events like that i think is fit into how these very hyper opinion writes has come about when they opened the laptops up and start writing this delusional garbage. i mean, you know, they all because i found to be very, very paternalistic. i think when you, there is this idea which is very common in america, which is the n mobile home that idea martin, we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break mark is going to give is a very good a part ideas statement. i think the most of the lives of 2011, the largest us great ever recorded in japan is we're interested a 14 meter to nami,

devastates the focus fema each and you the a pallet. tons the nuclear we inches are flooded, sparking another risk disaster. the id is b o n e t r e in june is living in japan designs to go to the area of any of the meltdown. police shima immediately drove me to talk to somebody about the 4 year investigation, stuff and watched on to the

i think ukraine does exist, should exist. and it is precisely the best option i suspect for its future is to find that amalgam of the cultures that are within it and turn it into something unique and flourishing vibes that would define it in distinction but not conflict but, but simply the difference between itself and its neighbors the well domestic prospect were all things are considered on peter level. this is the home editions remind you were discussing. you bring

the ok. we're back on the break. smart. you want to bring up an important point in now you're going to go ahead. it is simply that there is this belief by leaks the west and the leads that we don't have total unity when it comes to joined up thinking about you credit. and you know, that there was, nature's divide is certainly within your, you know, and the, the also makes the reference to, um, you know, we had that unity in, in syria, the dentist. um and then you just love. yeah. and these are interesting points to make because you know, if you look at it, it's quite tempting to say what do you have the unit see? and you just love it because you create a false flag attack. and so we have a market in the summer of 1995, which then let's clinton to go ahead with nature as strikes, you know, and i've gotten this done, was almost also completely fictitious basic basic principles of why went to all the

in the 1st place. of syria, we are standing oil from the syrians every single day. you know, how can these be morals? how can these be the, the, the high moral ground? we had the unity in those countries, but we don't have unit c in ukraine. you know, i think, i think we need to step back from all of this and look at what happened to be on this last week. you know, there was to, to me, i, so uh, an oil tanker just floating in the ocean. the know rather in the and it's a picture of paints a 1000 words look at the photograph of landscape standing in the middle. the owners are isolated. nobody wants to talk to him in his stupid, green fatigues which make and looked like some i don't know pulling movie extra, you know him inside. he looks like a mini. i mean to me. yeah. something like that. but last, last, you know, like i like it, but that's exactly what it is. i mean, he's not, he doesn't have agency towards that. so another one of these things that issues and

these article isn't only you find this article, how can you create a subsidy? it has no agency whatsoever, and apparently as a result of the assembly process they, they were serving their agency and they were denied it. and now they're more captive now than ever before. so again, this, this, this fiction to submit this mythology that they're putting nothing about your brain without ukraine. well, the more you think about that, the more your brain is going to disappear. george? yes, yes, exactly. and, and that's why it's so disgusting. i mean, you read these off because then you're filled with this discussed because they insist where you cream can when this was all it needs is more ammo, more weapons, and then your brain is going to, when this was the, which it was then raise the question what if your brain is so strong and can take the russians on by themselves, why you're still in the system, but it has to be nice. so i mean the, you know what, the, what, why does they need visit these?

all the go 5 guarantees. if it's the, if it can just whip russia window and it feels like it. um, and of course, given that, given the van, now are committed to this idea that, well, you know, we gotta do it because, you know, the, the long that as well goes on, the more likely to is the put in will be over thrown. and then we'll have this wonderful government and the people who is this wonderful government, all 3 girls and i'm but ultimately it's a b, b, y is disgusting. is it is deeply immoral. i mean, is that you all doing the find the angela stands, you know, she has a nice gauge area, you know, in the, and i think george down university of all of them have a 100, you know, live, you know, high on the hall. then i'll do the dying. so essentially they just recommending this, this continuing policy, which is only going to lead to more or more best. and then to an agreement that is going to be far worse for their uh, boldest clients then, or they could have got now or more than a year ago was, i mean that was the,

the based on bull agreement was that it was a pretty, pretty good group, i think from all the rain and stuff, but it was a good agreement and i want to, i'm glad that george brought that. it'd be because put this into perspective everyone wrap your head around the following. the simple process that looked like it was hit to come to fruition up until the last 2nd they, the co regime was being asked to give up what they didn't have. that is a pretty good deal. what were the in my introduction, is that i meant i mentioned who should do the talking well the, the people that wrote these articles for foreign affairs, these are the people that crafted this policy in the 1st place, feasible. last people you should be asking advice to or going to for wisdom because they certainly don't have either. oh i, i don't know. i just, i can't see our break grateful we move forward on anything we talk about and almost as to the north korea model. and i deal with this outlined,

some of the reasons why that can happen. i think i'm being honest, i'm is almost as if some thoughts will happen on officially. i think that's probably the most likely scenario the next 6 months, you know, but um it won't be zalinski who broke is that he's just not. he's just too stuck in this mindset of if we took peace, we have to have a piece of this and you have to give a piece of that unless just not the way for that's a, that's a dead end from, from the proposed to both of you if we're gonna use this word arm, is this the only possible way? and what addresses the both of you is that, that, that could happen is that nato has to leave ukraine and ukraine. what is left of it must be neutral in the middle which arise, that kind of pharmacist might work george when it might work. but the problem is, the nato has now committed itself to the policy that ukraine will be in nature.

well, given that, that, that view that russia has no incentive to stop until it's pretty much, uh, demolish whatever is left of your brain. and so that's a little they'll just be a yeah, a landlord from the state, the new to the people and say, okay, you want the ukraine in nature of buying, this is what you can get, but they bring it in, give it, give it the, all the go 5 commitments, but we're going to take everything we're going to take. everything goes valuable in you. right? that's nature's doing. nato has now probably, you know, hasn't often any incentives full for russia and that's why you see this. so these are, yeah, we will win this war, but i'm glad explain. explain how they're going to win this well. and then off the we won this war. ukraine will be inducted into nature where i o and any of these things are going to be achieved. if you're also making sure that you yourself, i'm not going to get into the fine thing because a, you don't want to get killed. and you don't want to start level 3. so it's, it's

a set up a supposition, but that's, that's in the network. so striking about these far in advance, right? as is it, they will went into this uh, this view. this is the by demonstration of this is the nature of you, the british government view. well, just keep on fighting in the home that i don't know, some, some narrative is going to happen in moscow. and then we can celebrate the point. that's just the point in the, in, in, in all these articles, revolver, we reform new liter, um a liberal liter. um, a new leader that they will. um, um, i swear off i can pay realistic designs. i mean, this is all fantasy and states, the board and policy. geo politics doesn't work that way. and again, you know, as long as you know, you're focused on regime change and nothing is mazda of security. they get that they've called it put themselves and you will call this like, i mean, it was really kind of, it was reading these articles was very embarrassing because it was so devoid for me

reality mark. yeah. and the reality is that i'm finding the set this we're running out of them are. and when he said that nobody rushed in to say yes, but we're going to very quickly change that situation and a restore the ukrainians, you know, the, whatever they're going to get in a 6 months isn't going to be anywhere near what they were having before. and i think people lives lensky, know that things aren't looking very good, a tool, and this is what they think. i'm sorry ma'am, but i think he, at this point is the wednesday and the historical they're in for the griffin. look at this, they take the grid, go on as long as possible. they, you know, they, there is ample evidence that there are plenty of people that have stuff their money abroad. they've been the state. i mean, i mean, they're ready for this. i mean, if the falls in the west want to get a funny, you know, ok fine. okay. all right, so these are the signs of the designs of the west of the lead. so i'm finally getting tired of this guy. look at the comments from ben wallace. look at a comes from bite of both use. this would, you know,

lack of gratitude. you know what they were in the case? well, the, him thing was, we've put so much into this and we're paying the fiscal price. now back at home, you know, germany is almost like slept to tell everybody what's funny with the list. no, no big deal. he's the old man because he didn't get to the secretary general until now, just a couple days ago. he's nelson depressed. he's checking in politics, i'm doing good as well as a very right childish like that shouldn't stop, but that is another story we should do another day, you know, the corruption of nature. what's going on when they say, with the nature of the job, you know, i'm sure that bite on this chosen as level the land of european commission because she presented herself once a woman. it was somebody from germany would be great, you know, time is up and you have the commission about 12 months time. so to look will fits right netflix unless yeah, but i mean if i could interrupt and ask her, what was her history as minister of defense in germany, a lovely hero and you also get any germans, they just go, i don't know, you know?

because the, because until when she was minister, that was the golden peer up here at the gym politics where, you know, the defense side of the ministry defense was basically, you know, the most remedial on spoke of insignificant couple of ministry that was really thinking the german media, it was called the most and love position in the government here. hang on, let me go to church around and the rep rapidly running out of time as always, you know, um, but you know, you bring up a very probably the most important point here is that nato is doubling down on the future ukraine membership. so why shouldn't arrested double down on his position that it will never be a member of nato. 5050 george? no, the executive. that's what that has to be native rough is position because um, you know, i mean, you know, basically laid down is monica that it cannot accept the ukraine and they so,

and they, so is this, the no, no, no you, you green will be in nature that russia has no incentive as 02 of them, and then they go straight anything, and it's clear that the west some files haven't done anything. they haven't gotten a minimum it, but putting out some kind of bc, the some, some basis ready thing. and instead that's why we have oldest propaganda was a restaurant. it doesn't want to negotiate rosters already from the goal. she ation is that, you know, they know just gets a, what we're going to pull more or more arms into the ukraine because natalie improve all negotiating position. well, negotiating doesn't get on the go, the plan and proposals are willing to get to get it. but the notion positions, but of course that's in itself is a lie. because if, if you know, the moment you gain gets anything, it captures the villages right away. say, hey, we're winning, let's keep doing. let's skip sending the whole because it's going to put us into it all or even better. no. so next month it's like a gambling. you know, if he could,

but never stop. you know, a don't maybe on the next the bath i'm going to, you know, i'm going to change and make a fortune. i mean, that's the hope intellectually, the, you know, the, the gamblers, the ball is the major. my favorite novels to gambler. alright. gentleman, that's all the time we have one, i think my guess in budapest and americans and where they are viewers for watching us here are these see you next time? remember, prospect was the nation to atrocities. and other times the united states of america is different. wherever people longed to be free, they will find a friend in the united states, the

need to speak to the automated about 80 volts. anybody phase the sony city and key job? the look at what the in service of each skid 18 color revolutions is one among several means to reach the goal of conquering foreign lands and bringing them onto the help of us. the western economic interest people been cited, adding that to the, to as well by the democrats, the new training portal acted so no, the best se, little this of however, you can see the final goal of the steamer of allusions to ensure that there are no independent players in the world anymore the, the, the,

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