see how strongly do some lucky isn't this and to the sufficiency address that you need just kind of make china's therefore the notion of trust to if you just discuss it in the context of a view to be one sided, a single engine passenger plane has crashed in eastern potent leaving at least 5 people dead and several others wounded. this all according to local media. as we understand, the aircraft actually collided into a hang that had a dozen people inside that a very small apple in other countries. capital of also a product authorities reported the pilot is among those who lost their lives. they added that adverse weather conditions properly the main cause behind the crush landing. those of survived the ordeal of being treated, the local hospital. we understand some of them do remain in a critical condition and all of our stores you can catch up on up by the moment, by the minute, by the, our online authority dot com. but otherwise,

talk to us about the channels, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the russian states. never as i've started as soon as the most sense community invest ingles,

all sense and up the same assistance must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the rush coding and split the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say it would quickly check

the hello and welcome across stock. were all things are considered? non peter lavelle is in time for top 10 hospitals and ukraine. well, more and more so called russia experts seem to think so. the fundamental question that 1st most the asks who shouldn't be doing the, talking the people who live ukraine into conflict and divided the world the i discussed these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess martin j america. she is an award winning journalist and commentator in budapest, we cross the george semi while i use the pod cast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. are gentlemen cross up rules and perfect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate it. well, let's start out with george in budapest, george you suggested that we discussed the foreign affairs issue that came out in

july, 13th of this year, with the a group of articles under the rubric of should ukraine negotiate with russia, which has a very interesting title, but none of the articles actually addressed that issue. ok, well, i thought it'd be really interesting, but unremarkable. but all of these articles they go in and orbit around the core issue of regime change in russia. security was not mentioned whatsoever. pan european security was not mentioned amazingly, no context whatsoever. the middle school process was mentioned once, but incorrectly. the, the, it was not contextualized the legal overdraw of power in, in care of and to the supporting was not mentioned whatsoever. but of course, for us, it breaks all of its agreements with no mention of what able the myrtle had to say or alarm about the minutes process. nothing,

no context whatsoever. and this is supposed to be be collected, just deal with us, the foreign policy establishment in the united states. foreign affairs taken away towards the you're absolutely spot on the the, the well in the original or they pulled the trigger this symposium as far and the fast had in the summer tended to incipient way suggest the that, well this floor has reached the style. nice. so it's. 9 time for uh, so kind of in the go see a to our. com but he, the, the original, the suggested an honest this and the most that he suggested was a korea as this. and that the piece last it was 70 years that now the response, as he said a of these foreign affairs may have um, was absolute outrage. this is, is it how can we possibly talk with russia? and it is decided because it's broken owners agreements. and we can't possibly trust them. and besides the, you know, ukraine is winning this war, you know,

you were, you know, just give it a little bit more and i keep getting more in your brain when and precaution, pray. those are the goals and they go to the i know how many times i think i called about 12 times the name for goes in came. 4 uh, even though it doesn't in any way, prove the points because that's all the good cool. what to say will the mutant it wasn't successful. and 2nd of all, if it had been successful, it would have been even worse for any prospect of a negotiated outcome. but at the same time, you can see why they are so outraged at the prospect, the ultimate goal. she ations because ultimately the ukraine channelled when this war, i mean, it's obvious that you can kind of defeat russia there's, it's just the mathematically impossible. it is. this just strategically impossible . so the, the foreign policy establishment, nose is now and then they have 2 conclusions. the drawer. if, if the boy kind of when this war,

then you can either say enough already. let's bring this done. this during this madness dynamics. so many people have already died. what's the point of just sending more? a young man into the meat. right? and that's cool. you know, may, joe can take over the fight the from ukraine and say, okay, we're, we're going to do it. you can't do it. you know, what will take on russia. now let nature as please said that they don't want to do that. and especially they say that the villainy a summit. you cry too grand con, come in, because we don't want to go to war with russia. we don't want to level 3. well, you've concluded that then essentially, what do you have? you have to admit that your policy has failed. this whole thing has been absolutely fair and then you're sure bye to do that. was available month, some months ago, a year ago in the that's. that's absolutely. and they cannot the admit more than the candidate that this has been a failure. and a, i'd be remiss not to just mention what george just said. here. there was

a piece of process in a symbol, weeks up to become like, started and afford affairs actually reported it out after the actual events is if it was like breaking news, which all of us have been talking about in real time when it was happening. so if you, if the russians in the ukrainians were negotiating, the premiums were a key to be in agreement and then boy scouts and shows up to the, to collapse these talks here. but so the ukrainians, a lot of we labor, it could be with the russians in good faith to get an agreement. it was the west that otherwise mar, it does come down to who we negotiate, where it's, i think. and i have to seriously doubt whether savanski is the man i said on rushing tv on to you just a few days ago in a news program that i think may be in 6 months time. he may not even be the, the zelinski is not the man to do it. he's just like the west,

like his western populace. he seems to be stuck in this cook who knows indulgent narrative. not since web i, you know, he called seeing as a clinic and these are all across the you in georgia are leading to this office based on which is quite well written, i must say that was very, very paternalistic. i'm, you know, very delusional about the role of the west and there was on the time which kept coming through, which made me chuckle as i read it. which was this thing about the values which was the west always had the higher ground. and it had this middle of huge, which it needed to live a 2 such me and most of like the russian people, you know, who was a little sort of 2nd rate people and clinton was this all said right, lead to, you know, if there was a reference in the article to, um, we called have peace talks um to russia sort of gives up. it's a good rest if all the sees around the world and returns to the table,

all responsible nations. now think about that phrase, disposable nations. you'll giggling, we're ready because i know what you're thinking. i know what your, what is the responsible nations. would these be the same, responsible nation? is that motion to back down in 2003? and next, what was that? i'm saying go to the 1st day and then refuse to pick up the type of paying all of his soldiers back pay, which then resulted in them creating what we now know today and organization code isis. well, those responsible nations, the same ones who went into afghanistan for 20 years and left the country and it was stage. and what impulse, when they went in and actually, you know, in crystallize to and the, tell me about and i made them a bigger, more powerful. and that's really the point implied. martin brought this up. let me, these are ok. they're well written. ok. they finally got an editors without the prose. that's fine with me. it makes it, it makes it easier to read. but, but, but georgia, it's a, it's a moral argument and this is not a moral issue. this is

a security issue. and again, when you look at the, the, distilling down all of the, this verbiage right here. russia is that right? it is not recognize that pressure has legitimate security interest. that's why this conflict happens. and that's why it's going to be very difficult to resolve. because up until then, if they don't recognize, why should security interest? russia has no interest in talking full style and absolutely right then and the mouth and brings up iraq. and yes, the assumption on the line all of these optic was, is that there is indeed this cods, right, of responsible nations acting seriously judiciously, responsibly weighing the decisions on that roster. on the other hand is just the while savage, it on the well stage has no idea how to do anything in the proper fashion. and because it's, are the exact opposite of the truth. but yes, they, they don't recognize the russians like you are,

the interest being all of the us goes only focus on ukraine security interest. but the reason we've got to was precisely because then russia outline is security issues and has been doing so for years and years and years. i mean, we go back to the 2007 and the uh, built in unit cars that you already gone from speeds. 2008. no broken. i'd really responded to that uh, to the nato invitation for ukraine to join the organization. you made clear that the, the roster is not, not that you just accepted them over and over again. russia of repeated this point . this is a threat to us occurred. and then when in 2014, this rabidly russell phobic regime, c spy, all the people who had actually lost the election in 2010. they, they, they were now in power off. first thing they did was basically they the, they passed the new language a little, essentially outgoing rationalism,

official language, and isn't positive you price. but uh, they also move immediately to uh to overturn the pre, just as the young to go with this policy and move into the nature of the russian. go back to respond with great suspicion. and we know that if it had been the other way, the americans would love his. i think that they were most of the years and years the russia hesitated before are moving in as mexico. we know there was some, as the american government would have seized power, made clear that it's now go to joint arrival, hostile military lines. the americans sort of moved into mexico city. within days they would have seized the mexican we the bundled him off in a plane. uh is it the car that yeah, i could take and put him on. 5 they would have put him on trial and sentenced him to a life in prison. and as i did was noriega, they wouldn't live in any hesitation. and the media would have been clapping and said,

absolutely marika is absolutely justified. about the security in this world are on this as the kind of created this absolute, delusional international situation. it was, even though it was, it was very, a very short reference, and i'm talking about the corpus anything takes a while to read these articles. it was a reference, i think was, and to a stands. you know, the rush is a security proposals before the complex started the december before given it just completely dismissed. i mean, but this was, this was, this was made transparently clear the, there will be consequences if there is not negotiations on these issues. and so again, you can't trust the russians, but you can't trust the west even when they're given a set of agreements. they may not a problem degree because they will, that's a starting point. isn't that what the point of all these articles is weird is the starting point. we had one before the complex started. yeah, but george named it when he used to what delusional and that's absolutely true.

there's so much god, what's, what's going on now in the west is just the same. our solution is a much right seeing the narrative, which is written by people who are just blinded by their own. don't come, i can't see anything straight. i think it was a point was made just a few days ago on, on british television, the always seemed to see on british the tv nurse is, you know, the few victories that you kind of might have. isolated victory is also reported on too much, and of course the state is not reported on shall. and you know, this, this some sort of way of reporting on, on the eventually, but i think has fit into how these very hyper opinion writes has come about when they opened the laptops up and start writing this delusional garbage. i mean, you know, they all because i found to be very, very paternalistic. i think when you, there is this idea which is very common in america, which is the idea of martin. we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break mark is going to give is a very good,

a part ideas statement. i think the only way not toronto, see what's printing was are out there. so sounds good. just so basically of course we need your last name was needed. read it was can, will be used to live you much and we have support for someone who is this we,

which i knew people to the the the, the welcome act across that were all things are considered 9. peter, the mill, this is the home addition. remind you were discussing, you bring the ok, we're back on the break. where do you want to bring up an important point in? now you're going to go ahead. it is simply that there is this belief by leaks the west of the leads that we don't have total unity when it comes to joined up thinking about ukraine. you know, that there was, nature's divide is certainly within your, you know, and the, the also makes the reference to, um, you know, we have that unity in, in syria, the dentist. um. and then you just login. and these are interesting points to make because you know, if you look at it,

it's quite tempting to say what do you have the unit st in. you just love it because you create a false flag attack. and so we have a market in the summer of 1995, which then let's clinton to go ahead with nature strikes. you know, i'm an upcoming son, was also also completely fictitious. basic basic principles of why went to whole the, in the 1st place of syria. we're standing oil from the syrians every single day. you know, how can these be morals? how can this be the, the, the high moral ground. we had a unity in those countries, but we don't have unit c in ukraine unit. no, i think i think we need to step back from all of this and look at what happened to be on this last week. you know, there was to me, i so uh, an oil tanker just floating in the ocean. the know rather in the that and it's a picture of paints. a 1000 was looked at that photograph of landscape standing in the middle, the on his on isolate. yet nobody wants to talk to him in his stupid green fatigues

which making look like some i don't know pulling movie extra, you know, like a mini medium me to me. yeah. something like that. but last, last, you know, like i like it, but that's exactly what it is. i mean, he's not that he doesn't have agency towards that. so another one of these things issues. and these article is a only you find some to. so i think, well, how can you please give me a heads no agency whatsoever. and apparently as a result of that, he has been bull process. they, they were serving their agency and they were denied it. and now they're more captive now than ever before. so again, this, this, this fiction to submit this mythology that they're putting nothing about your brain without your brain. well, the more you think about that, the more your plan is going to disappear. george? yes, yes, exactly. and, and that's why it's so disgusting. i mean, you read these off because then you're filled with this discussed because they

insist where you cream can when this was all it needs is more ammo won't weapons. and that your brain is going to win. this was the, which was then raise the question, what if your brain is so strong? i'm going think the russians on by themselves. why is still in the system that it has to be in nature? so i mean the, you know what, the, what the, what, why does they need visit these? all the go 5 guarantees. if it's the, if you can just web browser window and it feels like it. and of course, given that, given the van, now are committed to this idea that, well, you know, we've got to do it because you know, the, the long that as well goes on, the more likely to is that put in will be over thrown. and then we'll have this wonderful government and the people who is this wonderful going all 3 goals and i'm but ultimately it's a, b, b, y is disgusting. is it is deeply immoral. i mean, is that you all doing the find the angela stands, you know, she has a nice gauge area, you know, in the, and i think george down university of all of them have a live, you know, high on the hall,

then i'll do the dying. so essentially they just recommending this, this continuing policy which was only going to lead to more or more depth and then to an agreement. but it's going to be far worse for their uh, both clients then or they could have got now or more than a year ago was, i mean that was the, the based on bull agreement, which was pretty, pretty good. i agree with, i think from all the rain so, but it was a good agreement. and i want to, i'm glad that george brought that up the because put this into perspective everyone, wrap your head around the following. the simple process that looked like it, we had to come to fruition up until the last 2nd they, the co regime was being asked to give up what they didn't have. that is a pretty good deal. what were the in my introduction, is that i meant i mentioned who should do the talking well the, the people that wrote these articles for foreign affairs, these are the people that crafted this policy in the 1st place,

feasible. last people you should be asking advice to or going to be wisdom because they certainly don't have either. oh i, i don't know. i just, i can't see our break break fluid as we move forward on anything we talk about. and almost as to the north korean model and i deal with this outlined, some of the reasons why that can happen, i think of been honest was almost as if some thoughts will happen on officially. i