as i said by and large, most of the other. and the other one is that the russians don't to track the delivery of western military equipment into ukraine. and that's till those have held more or less challenge since the beginning of the war. and so it hasn't gone nuclear, i think i'm not sure that's a good argument. is it the because it hasn't gone you via yet, we can proceed this the cause of this war as it has been being for this pasta. while the russians would say, since 2014 and the major would say since the february last year, surely that's not a good argument uses. you know, i think it's a good argument that the, that the base our own seen so far. there's no reason to expect anything different in the future. and also, i think that proven, understands what the consequences of using the tactical nuclear weapon would be.

first of all, there are good targets for uh, for patrick a little bit your weapon to ukraine because they're not massed into the go world war to fashion their forces are not. i'm 2nd of all, it would bring nato together in a way that has not been brought together. well, it, you just said it would bring nature together and i should say a tactical talk is it'd be, discuss all london. the administrator defends in london for instance, because there are 50 special forces troops in ukraine according to the direct etc leaks even the shawnee. the point that is not that nature would be strong together . it was united states that would present, we say, look, we're going to do some kind of talking here. a while you're up would be powerless to act in any case. the last point i was going to make was that the consequences of a russian use of nuclear power to go loopy or weapon. um are the consequences that the face like well and will not face. and we're like,

what are all sorts of options. i mean, uh, for example, here's the shifter fleet. could go away. it just a, you'd be driving sorry to interrupt you, been writing about that. you favor a tax on russian infrastructure, black, see ports, oil rail bases. you've also mentioned syria and the, the points of the talk. yeah. do you think ukraine uh, should extend the war to those base is modeled a stranger on the war. my point only is, but uh, the kinds wrench for a filtering of using a tactical nuclear weapon is, but a lot of the things that he got use would be at risk. i mean, surely that is completely against the idea of deterrence. theory isn't like a bench on each risk by conventional means. right. and that's certainly what, uh,

so it kind of gone over his writing about and saying the response would not be necessarily nuclear, but it would teach the workers again. i don't, i don't think it would be but, but non nuclear does not mean it does not give you a free pass. there's a lot of, a lot of, uh, a lot of damage that can be done with conventional weapons and food nodes. that is not for me. do you think that trump is not only getting uh, a lot of support in the united states for ending this war in another way it had, let alone the billions being sent over is that he is making hey, out of the fact that biden's team depend against lloyd austin hills from re fi on blinking and michelle flu and he come from west exact the defense contract to consult with the arrow haines. director national intelligence is from the sullivan as links to ty, one it, it goes into the narrative of the trump narrative,

which is, this is the swamp here that needs to be drained there will making future money out of this policy that pursuing in ukraine when, when peace should actually be pursued rather than, rather than future personal money. i suppose. all the dead bodies of ukrainian men, women, and children. and i would be very surprised. yes. uh, the people who uh, who is drunk should borders are aware of the connections that you just membership. and i don't think they are. that's the working classes of america. i would say, i mean you are the hudson institute, did you ever feel that there was that to you? i mean, obviously there's no direct pressure the but the way you write and think about conflict is influenced by the fact that it's a raise. your northrop loki, boeing chevron and x on a funding the hudson institute. i know now i don't know who funds a yorktown,

but do you see that these conflicts of interest exists when it comes to forging a strategy to benefit the united states? or for all the company use, same trying individuals who are writing on international relations on foreign policy and national security. i think they, they, the central problem is uh whether their views are influenced by um, by the particular companies that uh, that they contribute to their think tax hudson for example, um, as large as highly supportive board of trustees. and they are uh, ext really important in, uh, in sustaining the,

the s 2 um and as for uh, whatever influence the defense contractors. uh, uh, i don't see it. um, what i see is that there's a confluence of interest uh, between people who are between analysts, experts uh former government officials who have a certain policy position and uh, corporations that share that policy interest. and if an individual goes outside then um i think choosing problem, but i don't, i don't, i don't see evidence of that. interesting to hear what the problems uh would uh be uh, shipley. um, if the would be, the problem would be if, let's say a uh, the manufacturer of a piece of, uh, uh, defense hardware were to offer a shame kind for it as an,

as an example. uh, sponsorship in exchange for support about this particular piece of equipment and the uh, the, the, the, the, this imaginary think tank or imaginary uh, expert for it didn't get that piece of equipment was particularly valuable or useful. right. so i'll get, well we, we don't have time to talk about the f 35 yet here. and i would be the, and that would be, you know, i was making no allegations there, i should say, against those defense companies. but obviously actually is the raise your own patriot ms. that is being talked about in the ukraine calls like i also going to ask you just find the about the, a relative sanctions in unity of countries. is the ukraine conflict as big as got it. and then rusher is a trading with the global south. everyone's,

you'll get back bricks in the rest of the world outside the or be in union britain in the united states. the war is being reported on very differently. but having said that, even there in the capitals of the global, so they recognized certainly mean it to you in nature. why have you said there was a growing fisher in nature? and the nature was more brittle than ever. what, why, why do you see it that way when every day with all the nation nation, media that and the opposite as well? uh, germany has been reluctant. they've been dragged into it kicking and screaming some time either for the 1st time or if the 2nd world war of their political divisions. well, yes, that's right down there during the recession. right. but the fact is that the german shouldn't been politically divided over support for your grant. and my pro has been um on his uh,

idea of uh, european leadership, but from european military leadership in europe. although there is no foreign secretary there to uh, to direct it. um, so they been uh, and they also have a greater economic interest. uh, in many cases uh, to maintain cars rusher, especially germany. so. uh and that is uh, townford by the eastern, uh, or with don rumsfeld called the new yorker, up the eastern part of europe, which has direct experience with what living under russians, thomas, life. so that's a and all right to that. so the reason do you expect this war to end because of the war fatigue in western europe, we saw a civil, a civil disobedience,

civil strife across the whole of fronts actually. and regardless of what macro is, switching one day to the other on your train, and also in switzerland and holland, you see that the, the economic catastrophe approaching in europe may decide how long this war is going to go in before the inevitable. russia, u. s. summit that divides the country of ukraine. i can answer that question because it, it's really, really part just a, it's really part of the spirit. good to look into the future. i didn't tell you this, but this western resolve brakes. um that will encourage and then to the war if the united states ministration changes and trunk becomes president when the war. uh, if americans don't vote for drum and the binding becomes,

this is return to the present and shape. uh, and that he made to the more concerted and attempt to explain what the states are here, not only in ukraine and russia, but for the rest of the world of losing your train to the russians. then i think things will go well. but just briefly, either way, the war on china begins. then i think that the perception that the west has has cracked on uh on your brain, leading to a pay you granted the fee leads directly drawer in the, in the far east interest specific. yes. dr. south clumsy, thank you. thank you. ok. and that's it for the show will be back on saturday with a brand new episodes until they didn't even touch by the social media results sentence in your country and had to have the channel going on. you're going to be

a normal dot com to what you handled episodes of going underground sees after the assessment. but i do think i do that a little with me. it gives you a little more set or by you to did you see issue personally, do you think that will be a little bit? there's a good claim. your beautiful uh, southwest. nothing there. presidents. every site, every piece got, but i really don't know what the breast cancer, what? so what community terms. anyway, some of the front of some of the interior lucian,

they will instill 30 minute they just go and you're so who's a good check? sure. so here's what she compared to him. if he doesn't have shift, somebody else told me that you sure. yes, yes. yes. if you're welcome, you have screwed up. i do for the pick up. i do want to wait for the americans to service this notion. i'm was the exploration. well i guess most of the way, well it was 9 pretty much the extent of the way what you still think with the new what the post of what the yearbook thing and then with that with you and what can i be in the new money into the she was the so yes, so you have to just show up with the pnc the deal by to move to be separate actually for this you know, so the initial, that's the issue with the, the, the ciocca chemo. so news or so. so for the workers, the was for the interested me, it was easy. if i do, then he had as long as he's doing this for me said,

but it was no use me another blue, silver blue. i meant this stuff less than by to was to with done but i see with little of, for the end of. but the only thing that the stories that i used to be the declaration of the one to move them to move them to share some of that as we move from the table. so i'm listening but don't, don't put the most certainly for use of thought. 30 thought it was supposed to be says don't, that's crazy. that's not that to you, but i can you and you, i think the best, you know, she goes to your solution. so let's assume window a symbols daniel the what's the video interfaces and there's something political in the course of the easiest to think of them who's got cut

off. and they see that, that 3 of them to mean that it sees attempted to the purpose of this new is that the new of the last and you'll click away. you should be able to say because it said that the mission of board. so yeah, if this deal the deal is because it's up to the book steps of the role that the piece to just come into. if there's nothing practical somebody the system the, the business for the, the

weight. and so that it's a little difficult. the closer photograph isn't just chunk of the chunk that there's lots of clicks on the sun.