which is started with some national or, or, or internationalists ideas, but it's quickly revolved into outright violence and depressions and purging is what have you. and it seems that we have sort of the same uh, dynamic, perhaps of a different proportions, but the same dynamic being used here, don't you think? so? yes. and, but in, as, as a, as an academic could do, does think about these historical patterns and connections. i like to put it in terms of the phrase of a lesser known, but more significant, historically tendency toward the integral nationalism. and so i came, come back to my fundamental conclusion that nationalism is the evil and nationalism in facts all of us. and we'll continue to do so inevitably, so long as we have nation states that prioritize our national interest,

our national identity, and our differences with others. now i'm not saying that we should just get rid of everything and hold hands and kissing hawk, because that's not going to happen. but it is very possible to live in a world of nation states and recognize its blog and to keep those flaws ever before us as warning signals as to what can happen when we exaggerate the importance of a national identity. i gotcha. now you're also going back to uh, greek tragedy as a practical way of, uh, dissolving tensions or you know, addressing facilities among nations. you mentioned that it's actually, it has a pretty, um, sort of practical uh, layout for how it could be practiced. it consists of 3 points and all assist recognizing tragedy, recognizing your in role in what happened. press are,

says purging, the soul of toxic emotions like vengeance or hatred, that sort of thing. the way for more pro social feelings like compassion and finally dialogue which you define as a form of self transformation, which allows for a new form of the relationship to take place. i think in this day and age uh um, in this day and age everything is turned upside down be the most we can hold for this point is, is dialogue, you know, to bring the parties to negotiating table. we're kind of premier, you cannot require them to sort of, you know, go through a guitar says, or even, you know, take hold of that own. it takes stocum that own actions. do you think any dialogue would be effective without like a notices and guitar says 1st, know? so that sequence has to occur and dialogue up or is not because 2 people sit down and say they want to talk. but when they actually feel the need to do so,

and the need for that comes from the recognition that, oh my gosh, is partly my fault. notices then says it's partly my fault. how could i contribute to the healing bedford far says, replacing the rage and hate with emptiness. and then in the emptiness, pity and compassion can come in. and finally, out of that penny and compassion came calm, dialogue which enables you to truly see the other person as yourself and to recognize your needs and the needs of others and the humanity off of your out of the reaches, i guess the final but also very cool, so uh, questions here, because i think the russian culture is distinct when it comes to respecting your money. because if you're historical, look at how much russians have taken from other, you know, of course there is be this we've of the charge that totters. it won't be collected

west after the cold war. we've always sought to practically approach our enemies and you know, a way or whatever good practice is that they can offer it. and i think that's also, you know, partially um, a consequence of mature space and sort of experiential history. when you know that history is long down, ukraine as conflict of and young as it is, it's as a state of florida itself, something like that. canada more to treat. that name is with respect. does it know how to do it without humanizing at least one's fellow citizens? what prospect is there for the state to do this? there's not you. you have to develop a constituency which wants to support the existence of that civic culture. both the individual culture,

the cultural components of it hard for the whole, but also the civic identity, the political construct of it. and you know, as recently as 2020 or 21. i quoted president victor yoshika who said, well, your credit is still a part of the nation because it hasn't accomplished that until it does, it will remain that. and there is no sense in fooling yourself. i sometimes hear from critics write me and say, oh, this is not a bore. on the other hand, this has already. we're now beyond that because the war has united us war never unites, never, not united for a very brief moment. and then as soon as that moment is over, everybody is out of each other's throats again, unless they can focus on the issues that divided them in the 1st place. and that's

why it will be no, there is no accidental solution. do you praise problems in all resides with them and the end, the healing piece? not just in your brain, but i think in europe as a whole world again, when you're praying hills. and so professor pitcher, we have to leave it there. but it's been a fascinating conversation. thank you very much for that. thank you. my pleasure. i'm thank you for watching hope to see her again. unable to parse the, [000:00:00;00]

the, to take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shepherd, reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify. it will confuse who really wants a better wills. and is it just because it shows you fractured images, presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can

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repeat the news. you just fill out the most. you put the question, the switch it 1st, the real grey beach gets to boise was the most that you go in most the good morning . good. good. i just those hits the nation to be awesome, but you need to be the see be in school. the boxes that you survived me was he should have sebastian, people who give me a game room, lupsi williams that goes there with that he goes to each other. that was what i'm doing. i'm not sure what i need you to be a guided bus of what you say of us. we still reduced me, but once you've watched this to but in the super sky, he's a which was uses a really and we just don't weeks way mom. i'm sort of beautiful when the should get to us here of circle, but i've got you so by step, the inverse of by me. so what does that always do? let's say that what do i need that? and i said he'd be able to

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