up which i do consider again, rush it to be part of, of eastern europe. i would also say going back to a bit or earlier point about nationalism. i have a very specific. and i hope, precise definition of nationalism. which is indeed it is a form to tell it, caring as i see nothing, nothing since the end of the 19th century. that ennoble nationalism nationalism has been transformed in by the 1920s, already and certainly by the 1930. the 1940s into an instrument of total integrity of them and it becomes today the only truly effective and resonant instrument of national to tell a terry. now you mentioned your crime being at the cross roles between east and west and. 6 uh, some of our viewers may know that your friends name is literally translated as being on an edge or, or cry. and i, i personally think that sort of underlines the borderline character of,

with historic and political development. i've heard some analysts suggest that, you know, those countries that happened to be in between big council, big civilizations, a essentially destined to lean one way or another rather than trying to sort of cultivate the national identity from within and pick and choose from various corners. what they want to utilize, do you agree with this? this is the thing, your plan has no other choice down. um, you know, joining one side against the other, or it fully develop something, you know, indigenous if a country is to have a reason to exist. it does so by doing exactly what you said by picking and choosing what is indigenous to it and distinguishing that new amalgam from what is being offered to the people across the border.

so i disagree with that basis because i think ukraine does exist, should exist, and it is precisely the best option i suspect for its future is to find that amalgam of the cultures that are within it and turn it into something unique and flourishing. that that would define it in distinction but not conflict but, but simply the difference between itself and its neighbors. well professor, petra, we have to take a very short break right now, but we'll get back in just a few moments section. the

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is on all sides. very dramatic. the only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful. very good. i think it was time time to sit down and talk the the welcome back to wells, the parks with nikolai attached to a professor of political science at the university of rhode island,

an officer of the tribe, beauty of your prey. what classical greek tragedy can teach us about the conflict resolution. professor petro before the break, we were talking about um, your credit access done so need to find its own unique national identity, its own national southcourt. and um, many russian thinkers, including, i'm sure you're for the present loading, a put in, argue that the choice that the ukrainian leadership has made so far pretty consciously is to, you know, try those authentic uh, limited facility that existed within the ukraine population against the soviets. or later against the russians and utilize it into a political mechanism of sort of unifying the culture from with them and attracting west and financing. i can understand cynical part of me can understand the sort of, um, political, unless that's the key or utility of that. but in terms of uh,

military and defense tradition wasn't, that's reckless. what other country would tolerate that hostile state on its borders, especially when it's on by the deform analysis of the country? one of the confusing aspects for analysts. so this conflict is that russia, for, for nearly 30 years did tolerate that. so the question in the minds of western atlas is what changed now? and this is indeed a difficult question to answer. but i think perhaps the answer lies in the sense of the cup of power as has the, has been over bill and a couple of events of last year. even proceeding the offer

i to re negotiate essentially a nato strategy, which nato rejected at the end of the 20 last year. i mean, 2020. what go on. yeah. i, i thought, or even more suggestive in indicative of what i under estimate it along with most western atlas. the degree of, of the anger of the russian elite against the western, the professor bradshaw. isn't it understandable that most school would the wave or try to delay these difficult decisions? because you mentioned this, the french for side, all of one that you might imagine came in a mil, you know, we consider ukrainians, you know, not necessarily our brothers. but most of us have relatives there. so for any russian leader to watch any military operation, there would be a very, very, very difficult choice, both on international grounds and particularly domestic grounds. but i think the

crumbling line has been put, predicts police. and the, the reason they did it was because the west intensified the weaponized ation the militarization of your grants route. 2021. do you believe the kremlin narrative there? the way i would say is pausing? is that a matter of what i believe is what the individual actors believe and their inability to listen to the other side is what makes conflict. half of. and so i'm sure that the kremlin believes what it believes. and in nato, nato capitals, they believe of exactly the opposite and in their own righteousness and their inability to see beyond that on both sides leads to be. i have to put it this way, the victimization of ukraine. uh, as matter fact, i was thinking the other day, how on the one hand on the west is willing

to sacrifice ukraine so long as it does not join in the lines with russia and russian people exactly the same way. roger cannot tolerate the ukraine, that is alliance with the west. so the only thing that both sides outside of ukraine have in common is that they're willing to see the destruction of your brain . and that's why you brain has to get out of the situation for itself is to rely on its own internal forces and internal means reaching out and establishing domestic unity, which is unfortunately not, not the policy of the current ukrainian government, not the policy of the current or previous ukraine and governments, but this is something that your book suggest. i know you see greek tragedy as a kind of therapy that aspires to restore social harmony. but uh, are you sure that this restoration of social harmony has ever been part of the

piece of grant in policy? because i think as we have just discussed, the they've been a means for the opposite. what can possibly inspire them to change course for, for the own good. well, there is a significant mythology in ukraine. i know. i think the storage has recently spoken out against the crating of him. the national him. uh, but uh it actually talks about how we are all brothers in uh of, of the same cause eric route. route. uh, and there's a lot of, uh, unifying mythology. i talk about subordinate, which is that console they have a day of subordinate in ukraine, which is a celebrated every year. these good policies, these, these correct policies drive for national unity. the problem is they have been

misinterpreted under nationalism. to mean this part is good. and national unity will require the destruction of what is the unhealthy in ukraine, and then it becomes simply a matter of targeting and persecuting, and eliminating the people who are, who don't match your stereotype. and that is not, will never succeed. that just has never succeeded in human history, and it will not be, cannot succeed in ukraine. you mentioned the rise all fall, the nationalist or fluoride movement. then, you know, russians put it in terms of the knots, this red, which some of the was believe is a huge exaggeration. but why do we actually look and compare the now to experiment with what's going on in your brain today? i sometimes feel that you know what hitler and people are wrong can, did this,

you know, sound when it portion of the collective, unconscious that you know, they were approaching in an experimental manner. but uh, manual be ukranian leaders. a very cautious about repeating some of the knots of practices or misleading the own people. let alone inviting a far, far right, militias from all over the world to gain military hands on experience of fighting. now, and you can uh discard all of that as a russian propaganda the gnostic part. but what about the parking potential of those militants when they come back to the united states? when they come back to britain, don't they represent the southern danger to, to, to your own people? yes. but again, i don't think of it strictly in terms of naziism because naziism was not even tip goal for a cognate parties in eastern europe and even fascism. there were subtle differences

all along the way, even in the 1930, the 19 forties and to draw an analogy of any current political move up to a nazi movement is simplicity. let me clarify my point. i don't try to draw direct analogies, but as you have seen, a historical patterns or which for patterns tend to repeating themselves. that makes me look for example of the bolshevik movement. you know, the russians would have me mentioning bolshevism in the same sentence with not soon, but it was a very limited, very radical group that's too cold of the entire country and change of history for, for many decades. and it started with some national or, or, or international studies, but it's quickly revolved into outright violence and depressions and purging is what have you. and it seems that we have sort of the same uh, dynamic, perhaps of a different proportions, but the same dynamic being used here. don't just think so. yes. and, but in, as,

as a, as an academic could to does think about these historical patterns and connections . i like to put it in terms of the phrase of a lesser known, but more significant, historically tendency toward the integral nationalism. and so i came, come back to my fundamental conclusion that nationalism is the evil and nationalism in facts all of us. and we'll continue to do so inevitably, so long as we have nation states that prioritize our national interest, our national identity, and our differences with others. now i'm not saying that we should just get rid of everything and hold hands and kissing hawk, because that's not going to happen. but, and it is very possible to live in a world of nation states and recognize its flaws. and to keep those flaws ever

before us as warning signals as to what can happen when we exaggerate the importance of a national identity. gotcha. now you're also uh, going back to uh, greek tragedy as a practical way of, uh, dissolving tensions or you know, addressing facilities among nations. you mentioned that it's actually, it has a pretty, um, sort of practical uh, layout for how it could be practiced. it consists of 3 points i've noticed is recognizing tragedy, recognizing your in role in uh, what happened, catharsis, purging, the soul of toxic emotions like vengeance or hatred, that sort of thing. the way for more pro social feelings like compassion and finally dialogue which you define as a form of self transformation, which allows for a new form of the relationship to take place. i see in this day and age in these

days, everything is turned upside down. be the most we can hold for a, this point is, is dialogue, you know, to bring the parties to negotiating table. we're kind of premier, you cannot require them to sort of, you know, go through a guitar says, or even, you know, take hold of that own. it takes stokum that own actions. do you think any dialogue would be effective without like a notices and guitar says 1st, no. so that sequence has to occur and dialogue occurs not because 2 people sit down and say they want to talk. but when they actually feel the need to do so. and the need for that comes from the recognition that, oh my gosh, is partly my fault notices then, since it's partly my fault, how could i contribute to the healing? that's what the far says. replacing the rage and hate with emptiness. and then in

the emptiness. pity and compassion can come in. and finally, out of that penny and compassion came calm, dialogue which enables you to truly see the other person as yourself and to recognize your needs in the needs of others. and the humanity, all of your out of the reaches. i guess the final but also very cool. so uh, questions here because i think the russian culture is distinct when it comes to respecting your enemy. because if you're historical, look at how much russians have taken from other, you know, of course, there is be this, we've the charge that taught us it won't be collected west after the cold war. we've always sought to practically approach our enemies and you know, a way or whatever good practice is that they can offer it. and i think that's also, you know, partially um,

a consequence of mature state and sort of an experiential history. when you know that history is long down in ukraine, as conflicted and young as it is, as it's as a state of florida itself, something like that. canada for to treat him is with respect. does it know how to do it without humanizing at least one's fellow citizens? what prospect is there for the state to do this? there's not you. you have to develop a constituency which wants to support the existence of that civic culture. the both the individual call to the, the, the cultural components of it, the hard for the whole, but also the civic identity, the political construct of it. and you know, as recently as 2020 or 21. i quoted president victor yoshika

who said, well, your credit is still a part of the nation because it hasn't accomplished that until it does, it will remain that. and there is no sense in fooling yourself. i sometimes hear from critics write me and say, oh, this is not a bore. on the other hand, this has already. we're now beyond that because the war has united us war never unites, never, not united for a very brief moment. and then as soon as that moment is over, everybody's out of each other's throats again, unless they can focus on the issues that divided them in the 1st place. and that's why there will be no, there is no extra, no solution to your praise problems. it all resides with them, and they end the healing and peace. not just the new grand, but i think in europe as a whole world again, when you're praying hills. and so professor puncher,

we have to leave it there. but it's been a fascinating conversation. thank you very much for that. thank you. my pleasure. i'm thank you for watching hope to see her again. on was a part of the, [000:00:00;00] the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion, by how of tired vision with no real opinions. fixtures

designed to simplify will confuse really one say better wills. and is it just because it shows you few fractured images presented as fast? can you see through their illusions, going underground can the, the it's all sorts of this. our roster conducts 3 because the slides on the planning pool cities is enabled, drives both of these boxes. but we used to be including co isn't black, blue colombian bridge latin american leaders of the agenda of along with the summit with the new refusing to do now. russia over the plane conference

and they're passing that west. and the sanctions violate into that the little details of the rock shop in india with member states unable to find common ground to issue a statement on the plain conflict. while jose 3 refuses to caving sources for us to denounce the trading partner. profit on the status of the migration from north africa by throwing money at the bottom of the thing on the road, the assistance to the reach of the goods i've had come by today late since global news wound up. i brought him on me, and this is oxy into us musket says is forces have conducted with town. if you miss all strikes on mid fee and oil infrastructure in to equally

important cities. odessa and nichol, i of flying gifted the attack on russia's bridge to fly me off. this is a high precision stripes. hit a fight while you claim naval drugs were being sold along with a shipyard and oil facility or so forth. is also reported that a massive you cleanings roadside elizabeth pounds on crimea earlier on tuesday with $28.00 good news being in the deceptive service as the so i just came sort of the off the russians present a lot of inputs in cold for them as the response to grant track on the crime in bridge which most go has as far as an act of terrorism. most of the initial i cheated with another terraced act, was committed on the bridge. the civilians were killed. a child was injured and left without parents. the family had left to go to crimea from the belgrade to reach him. i asked to provide all the necessary assistance to the injured girl and

her relatives f. s. b. the investigative committee and a number of other agencies had been instructed to investigate some incident in detail. so what happened is another terrorist attack, the key of regime this climate, senseless city of the military point of view. it has no means that the pacific find me and be registered. it has not been used for military transportation use for a long time and cruise because in the civilians were injured with killed the will. of course either will be a response from russia. the ministry of defense, i guess, for perry and the correspond to get out of causal cities. the process i am the tears come at the sides to enable drive this damage. the babies are the hours of monday. the route is a to gateway from the russian mainland to the peninsula. inside killed a mother. i'm 5, i'm injured. the teenage daughter, i'm happened on this. all this happened on the farm is 1st vacation trip to crimea . ross and investigators have opened a criminal probe into the attack and se, uh,

the findings point. the thing is squarely on ukraine security service. also, or did you say was already underway on the power in the bridge? i'm re opening it fully to traffic global affairs and security specialist mugs, really about it earlier, told us the human each size is, are a cleaning attempt to shift public sentiment in russia. the only way for the coverage game. so only hope not only of, of, not really of winning this conflict, but coming out of it in any type of complete situation is to shatter the morale of the russian people to make them turn on the government. they know that conflict cannot be one military. they know that they're already exhausted out of artillery shells and vehicles that can usefully be supplied to the key every game. that's why they've always been more concerned about optics about the information

war. then with any actual strategic value, which is why they hit the civilian part of the bridge, both the us and the united kingdom have green late have for you know, green lit for the coverage game to launch attacks in cried media. so there be on conclusive they're actively involved here. me, well talk to us officials have distance washington from the deadly isn't say the decision making for such attacks is up to q. we don't take it upon ourselves to determine legitimacy or illegitimacy of targets at the ukrainians here they're fighting for their own country on the, the courage bridge. this is the situation that we're, we're monitoring, of course, you train us to decide how it conducts this war in defensive it's, it's territory. it's people, it's freedom. okay? no problem. however, buses, if you have access to the you and has told

a session of the security council in you know, the 5 point to us involvement in the bridge attack allow me to show up in the state . there is evidence of what we still have to figure out to what extent weston, and in particular, british intelligence services were involved in the preparation and implementation of the terrorist attack. there were too many indications of this whole. these facts indicate that there were no crimes that the west is not ready to commit in order to preserve its heads. you money, no matter how much you trying to act as defendants of ukraine, you'll actions give you away. one of the main points made in his remarks. so was that the reason this war is continuing is primarily because of the system provided to grain by western countries, most specifically the united states. now the united states representative argued that supplying of weapons the key was not pro loading the conflict. this was simply

necessary to enable ukraine to defend itself or russian colleagues say that somehow this assistance is the reason the war continues. but once again, russia is trying to turn reality on his head. the security assistance including weapons, the united states, and more than 50 of the countries are providing is for ukraine's self defense. now, prior to the remarks we heard from the united states, russia pointed out that washington is not planning to replenish its own stocks of cluster munitions and is instead sending them to keir then is essentially turned ukraine into a dumping ground. now, china spoke before the council and also res, very serious concerns about the use of cluster munitions and the efforts by the united states continuing to pile weapons into key a to inquire and to an irresponsible transfer of close to bone skin, easily gave rise to the human to 2 issues,

humanitarian concerns and legitimate military security needs should be handled and balanced way. well, it's been only 24 hours since the black see grain deal i was essentially canceled by russia not renewed. and in that time, we've heard the united states began its old shatter, arguing that essentially, that it's russia's fault, that russia is trying to star the africans, the russia is to be responsible for any results of this. however, the details that were put forward before the security council by the russian representative point. now, for example, that these saved corridor or that was provided under the deal was being used to some of the weapons. and for attacks to be carried out, a gas ross and targets, and that's a clear violation of the deal. furthermore, russia and put forward that if these violations of the deal were just sees, so they would renew the agreement. however,

that was not put forward. now it's also important to note that very little of the grain actually reach africa, much of the grain was consumed by prosperous european country and afterwards by russia to provide fertilizer to african countries at no cost for free. we're actually prevented and blocked by the west. uh, these are details. mustering leaders are not acknowledging. here's what was put forward by the rough russian deputy ambassador. but the truly cause was the whole. yeah, the grain deal was one way game. the least developed countries did not receive even 3 percent. since these facts are too hot, hating and speak for themselves, the blacks, the initiative was simply re full mess it from humanitarians. the commercials is without too much noise. so can you rush out will be ready to consider as restoration before any of to receiving concrete results. not promises and assurance that is from western capital. so lot of stuff is addressing the issue of the black sea grain. the requirement is for this person has explained the risks for those

still involved in its author of russia ended as much space and attempts to continue the grain deal without the participation of the russian federation. must take into account the risks associated with the fact the great export route pauses near the combat to area rather seem, but it has no way to check. you've uh, the forwarding back a sol, so we'd shed the green from your brain. if the dog breeding web post instead because it would be a very convenient way for the west to supply web, to print and no resource. you know, on that, on the rece russians do pest control the skies, the roster can a sheet a crane. so the trucks, you know, transported west and uh, west the knobs immediate and best. so, uh for the uh,