one of us and companies now step in and when it comes to vital medicines, this will cover the next 3 months worth of intially needs. crucial for the treatments of diabetes with the russian pharmaceutical company general form a has struck a deal to provide one point. 1000000 shots eventually, along with 40000 syringes. but as well, it has long been on the west and the sanctions puts agreements between moscow in caracas, helping to alleviate some of the difficulties on their fabiola illegal. 1.1000000 units of human installation were delivered by this plane provided by jerry farm lab for the venezuela health care system. this delivery was made under the contract by jerry farm and they bought a very and republic of venezuela on supply and transfer technology of incident production full venezuela. were in the beginning of the process of offending all contractual obligations due to it having a period of 5 years and wait for funding it only for a year. now, such agreements all of huge importance with vice countries because by such deliveries, especially by delivering medicines that are needed by people suffering from diseases, medicines of vital importance to the people,

we broke the brocade. as the people, the companion, such agreements are of huge importance from both countries because by such deliver is especially by delivering medicines that are needed by people suffering from diseases. medicines a fight on importance for the people who broke the blockade. that's all for now. i hope your weekends off to a great start. spanish speak to scott somebody, but we moines. so to produce a change for going on the ground. no, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00]

the, i'm actually in redundancy and welcome back to going underground will go single around the world from do buying the u a. this week and the nature of proxy war and ukraine's, they just escalation must go finally asked its temporary blacks the green deal, which allowed exports of grain from ukraine. these came after tara jack on the crimea bridge when they do a nation. naval drones will likely use to blow it up, sound familiar to the legend bite and blowing up in the north stream pipeline. a us soldier who says the war and ukraine needs to. and now with a diplomatic solution, is for me us army officer of 30 years and full of a chief of staff to president george w bush is us secretary of state colin powell, the man who's 20 o 3 you and speech helped capitalize the us invasion of iraq and, and the soldier is retired colonel laurie wilkinson, who joins me now from fullest judge in virginia. thank you so much kind of her coming back on the show. so the 23 warning rog was so you know, w, m, d, w, and the, this, this one really has more and ukraine really is about w m d,

y of you and 14 of assigned them. that's a, in the new york times cooling on people to understand the war through rushes, eyes of all of us who signed the letter and many more who for some reason or other didn't want to actually be so public agreed that this is probably as dangerous a situation as we've been confronted in a long time with regard to nuclear weapons, probably as dangerous as 1962 in cuba or 1961 in berlin. so it was time for a statement to be made and we found a gentleman to back us. it's very expensive to do that, isn't the new york times, and we put it in or why the new york times actually? i mean it's a, i'll give a change. it's policy or the tory leo since you know, because it suddenly started to at least it was one all fed. uh that seemed to show some descent from the ruling class line. why did you choose the new york times?

well, one reason i chose it, i recommended it, not that my view was paramount. it is because it was the war monger with regard to the rapport which was a disaster is still a disaster. and we saw the new york times, again being a war longer advocating in all manner of uh, what you might call american war, hungering period, london, berlin, everyone's war mongering all the time. and so that's the best place to put it in the mouthpiece of the war. and so that's why we put it there, at least that's why i wanted this one key feature then that it being the threat of a new to us strikes. i mean, i'm not going to accuse you here, but you know, that kind of, um, so might say faith join list, have bbc, cnn, the usual suspect that the 10 that, that war and iraq, that low enough kind of sounds, serial libya they, they probably say you know what you're doing in that letter, it's caving in to put in new feedback. now, not at all. as

a matter of fact, i have been assured in the last month by some of the highest authorities for moscow that paid him would not use a nuclear weapon. strangely enough, i happened to believe them. um, they are reputable people. there are people that colin powell trusted when he was sector of state. um and i haven't a blog that he trusted to many people go on file. yeah, that's true. in this regard though, i think the statement is a valid statement of mice here is not that russian or worldly e as a new grew up and it says some other party and i included washington in that we'll use a new go up. and so that's my feet are not rusher. i don't think russia is at a point or will be at a point i did meet you after the 24 february invasion. i thought the prospects were

pretty, pretty good because i watched the russians bogged down so badly that i thought we were making a big substantial for them. i no longer think that. i think the situation now made so by us and by ukraine is clearly on russia side. i think all she has to do is hold out and the defensive posture she's presently in, and ukraine will bleed itself to death on that defensive foster. so i don't think there's a reason for 13 to use nuclear weapons now. a, well, that's quite shocking that the united states might want to, but your view does concur ironically with the drunken it'd be, uh, b, u and u, sorry us national security council. the junk of use, and there was absolutely no indications of them using it. obviously it's a, it's terrible for all the families of the breed families of those who have died in this conflict sofa. but uh, why do you being critical of entity blinking the former um uh,

west exec military contract, a consultant secretary is dave. he has achieved one more aim for washington. hasn't the in the west in europe has become much more than ever like just another state of the usa and his family and the group of washington by you just stated. the reason why this cannot persist in 1989. and one of your 1st drawing colin powell, he mused in his office one day to may, a freshly captured lieutenant colonel. so i was about to challenge him. he said, you know, larry, the leaders are all going meet there on coal. a voucher major. they're all going, the people with the state, they're feeding for war 2 are going soon. there will be leaders in your who don't remember the war as a war. soon, there will be leaders in europe who will want to act on their own. that is going to

happen and is going to happen speedily. and for with, with this war going on much longer, i think we're going to see natal falling apart rather than becoming even more, more unified as far as an abiding insinuated, insinuated. hell, he stated it multiple times and booming is so i think we're looking at the dissolution of nato over time because these leaders are going to go. these leaders are american chosen leaders and made a respect, particularly the secretary general of nato. when these people go, there are going to be a new crop of leaders. you're seeing coles right now. even in germany, they show 5560 percent of the people are not happy with their present politicians policies. and that includes ukraine. so as time goes by and i don't think it's going to be much time, maybe 12 to 15 months, we're going to see nato began to fall. par, not be more more unified,

particularly if we don't step in and stop this conflict as well. today the germany is in recession, that has been civil unrest, right? of course, friends in switzerland, many of the countries, but if the russia has definitely said it would respond to any nuclear publication. and as you say, if the united states were to initiate one, you don't think that the national security advisor, jake sullivan, the sector se, blinking victoria in humans. you don't think they care about their own families when they do this, because i'll be there around hollywood films. about the war that should remind them of the consequences and reality of what it's like to be in the war. and the fact that right, no one is of even a conventional loan, a nuclear $11.00 of those films is dominating the airwaves over here right now. well, very today you go hoping i'm or i am become dead,

quoting the indian religious figure. i and i'm not so sure that that's a proper characterization of the present situation because i think what we're looking at now is increasingly, and i've just reviewed the joint publications, which are the publications for the american military, with the guard operations on nuclear weapons. and what i've found is a cavalier attitude toward those weapons. that is to say, they're just bigger weapons. i'm encouraged by the fact that in all of the my review there is the state. but quote, the president of the united states is the only one with the authority to use nuclear weapons on quote, that somewhat reassuring, until you think about the presidents we've had of late. and then it's not so reassuring. but i say that because i think we're coming to a time again,

look at what we've done. we have an old or withdrawn from unilaterally or just flat cancel every nuclear arms control agreement painfully achieved during the cold war . from the abm treaty, which my president george w bush abrogated without a fairly well all the way to open skies. and now finally, start because student is not about to come back to start after ukraine. so we have no arms control. we have a military dis, talking about nuclear weapons as low the battlefield utility developing doctrine for their use and so forth. the russians are doing the same thing. we're looking at a possibility of getting into some kind of tactical use of nuclear weapons. that would, uh, shall we say, customize them, make some, actually something that we use on the battlefield. this disaster for the environment for people to hire for everything we're talking about, they want to stop with the ukraine wars. the primary example right now, killing people, splicing people knocking them out of their homes. we can't make this normal

activity, and yet i'm seeing it becoming that in doctrine and doctrine also leads action. or is it that what gives confidence to blinking state department and the other people in control there in, in washington? is it what gives them confidence there? uh, intelligence surfaces, do they have good spies in moscow? letting them know, look, this is the right policy. we all have succeeding year. i know. presidents not least the, the one use of the very well, i mean, we all know what happened to the intelligence they've gotten through to him. and what happened in iraq is it that they have good spies, exceptional spies, and most co, the give them the confidence. i could be a part of it. i, you know, my phrase for the current crew is lincoln blinking not nudge. and that's why i said that on this program to you in touch me, father, i just don't give them

a lot of brain power credit. and the people who are pushing them to be behind them actually making the decisions or, or seeing the influence and make some decisions. i'll give them a lot of credit for thinking about our future and our posterity either. you know, our country now is one by the point 001 percent, who own about the g, d p, equivalent of brazil in their personal family fortunes. these are the people that make the decisions. i want alarms me about them and i've had a long discussion with a number of people who agree with me and don't agree with me that this is a very, very mysterious factor. that is to say, they don't give a damn about the future. they just care about their shareholder prices, their stock prices, they care about making more billions on top of the billions they already have. and they don't seem to have any regard whatsoever for even their own boss dirty as an extremely dangerous situation when you get people like that,

influence in those who are in power and those in power are not all that confident. and they don't have any concerns of the future. it's a mystery to us. we can explain it. we do not understand why these people do not have any interest, even in their own future, in the future of their grandchildren in the future, their children. they have no interest in the future, they only have interest in the present and in money. okay. any day i'll give you don't care about the environment. if they destroyed the north stream, i understand that you agree with the site share, that it was the by the ministration that destroyed it. why do you think the by the ministration was so confident, there be no retaliation, rushes at all. they will be consequences for that destruction of the pipeline that was spend millions of dollars of german and, and russian money. but there hasn't really been a reaction to it. i think there'll be a long term consequences. i think people think strategically, and i'm not quite sure the mirror does, but i think he does, or at least he has some people around him to do. if he thinks strategically,

the germans aren't going to tolerate this much longer. and if you're talking about the heart of nato in europe, you're talking about germany, germany, germany, germany. and if you eliminate germany, if, if germany suddenly decides they are not best or by fuel that comes in, that is far more content 0 than the fuel that we're getting from russia far more expensive. but this is not really what they want for a future. and we're also been doing their both arms behind their back trying to break them away from china, which is nonsense. i mean, break germany away from china, the engine of the european economy away from the engine of the world economy. you gotta be kidding me. and yet that's what we're trying to do. this whole business with ukraine, if you find the root cause of the belief of the bad and the crew is to reestablish us in germany which was slipping over europe. they'll figure that out sooner or later,

especially the germans. and then it's katie bar the door we're going to be in trouble because the alliance is going to shatter and the trans atlantic relationship with kind of larry wilkinson. i'll stop you there. more from the former chief of staff to us secretary of state colin powell after this break. the so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy from foundation. let it be an arms race is on all sides. very dramatic. the only personally i'm going to resist, i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very unclear because of time time to sit down in the in 2022. the attorney and government approved a package of me that we have

a good nation with the you and they to, to help ukrainians defend themselves and fight back about 150000000 euro america. we even a told me bones are getting all the same and also in the us location and the ones that people with died just for make money. the one that you have done, yes, because of the volume that's who goes to on the data. if you've gotten the sheets confident, i mean there's what i don't know. she said if you've come to me you need to be down to get. i won't put them in tears without the more sign me much choice of ruth to store april holbrook, exec leila lesser opinion polls show that over 70 percent of italians are against military support for ukraine. landed and confirm for me to go for that last or the 5 to go a level see the guy in most on a skid on and with so many do not you then to to the the by the really that's what

when the use of the, of the my last thought, look you, the interest has been a little bit more not i'm just reading fund fee that a lot of stuff the, the, the welcome back to going on the guard. i'm still here with their child, connell, laurie wilkinson, the cheapest off to us extra estate calling about to thank you so much for what you

were saying in part one, it was fascinated to hear that not only do you agree with the fact that north stream was a by no administration operation, because we've had the on the secretaries of the navy on the show and of moscow station, they never said that the north stream was a bite and administration to or an attack, but you're talking about nato and it's problems. i mean, was the bill the as somebody could be one of the last somebody we see of it's kind, it might not be last. we are a great at war mongering. what you seem to be the most adept country in the world at it as a matter of fact, which justifies the fact we're supposed to be in democracy and care about things like human rights and such. but in bushes administration, george w bush. i figured that out by 2004, it really is done me. it took a while, we didn't give a damn about any of those things. so we use those things that sugar coating. we use those things for most international audiences and our own domestic audience as

sugar coding. we don't care about freedom, we don't care about democracy. what we care about is power and money, money and power that sums up america today. and that sums up what our war instrument is for, including nuclear weapons. it's a sad commentary, and yet it is a true commentary. and i'll argue with anyone that was argue about it till the cows come home. that's our purpose today. moore is a profitable business and we are in profits. that's why we're selling web values. that's why we're doing what we're doing and you crying. and anyone who tries to assign any other reason to it is just simply much that's what's happening. and the 2nd thing about it is we have now drugs are essentially $700000000.00 plus europeans and into it who will figure it out sooner or later. and then we're going

to have a bridge and let's see the world divided into the european union, trying to get his political life together. china, in the united states, in the, you know, trying to figure which one to go to in any pivot point and make a quarter of the world's population of people. and that's going to be a multiple world par extra long. and we're going to be sucking the rear end of that world about 90 percent of the time. if we don't stop and get our act together, not to mention is that the climate change is gonna eat our lunch is already eating our lunch. i've just come back from out west, if you wanna walk down the street because there's nothing but smoke all the time. asked new york or from the smoke coming down from canada. asked people who are looking at water situations that are simply existential for them. and fighting with other states out with trying to figure out who's going to get the water that's left . this is a crisis that if we know confront right now this minute and do it intelligently and

competently forget it. well, all really well if, if vitamin was responsible for new and stream, clearly climate change is something the policy, if it's coming, is to increase. but in fairness to u. s. media and obviously, and the less than your, i mean use officially. well media descent on ukraine is bad. there's, there's actually official censorship in front of us to you asked me do i don't normally say that, you know, we've had down elizabeth gone. he died recently, literally he heard him say that and you are trying to expedite julian, it's on right now from london. us major is beginning to call it a proxy war the ukraine. more. do you notice that sometimes that somehow the united states circle mainstream corporate media is starting to latch onto the arguments you've been making since february and since 2014, it would have to be a taste as a granite rock. not too. and they'd have to begin to understand that,

well, we keep up on this thing more longer and we're going to lose what little leadership we have left. because the american people then figure out, sooner or later too. if you're looking at a situation where the united states is going to be sending, spending is already spending. if we talk about national security rather than the armed forces, a trillion dollars a year, you're looking at a $30.00 to $33.00 trillion dollar aggregate debt. the interest payments of which will consume, plus the defense budget, all of the discretionary federal spending by 2030, maybe earlier. that's the congressional budget office prediction. you can keep doing that. you simply can't keep doing it. why are we able to do it now, we're able to do it now because the oil is denominated, preferably in dollars. and because we have a military that will smash anybody or sanction anybody, or most who objects that cannot persist, is simply cannot continue. and we're bankrupt for all practical purposes. if we have to pay our debt tomorrow,

the interest payments on that debt alone are going to bankrupt us. but if you have to pay the debt in aggregate, sorry, you're not going to do that. and people don't quit by our debt around the world, and that's going to be dramatic, is coming and it's all coming at a time when much or what we do have in terms of resources that are viable, should be aimed at meeting the common crisis. well, something some say it's speeding up, but clearly, you know, it is still the federal. uh it is still the world currency. so we won't have to wait just a little bit, but then so all the cost of bombs. and as a military man, you probably know more about cluster bombs and then i do, i mean, is lost through the dice. the cluster bombs being sent to boy is damage and kill and maim, future generations of children and your gram. utterly obscene. just like using the play did you ring uranium rounds and in and around baghdad, we've got

a cash right there around to lose you and elsewhere. now interact it out, strips any cancer, right? including children and i have just to drop the bridge. governments have depleted uranium is completely safe. right. uh huh. and i've, i've got some swampland in florida. i'll sell the british government. this is stupid to do this sort of thing. they should have been out loud long time ago. i thought they were going to be out lot alone with land mines and other things to look into. why am i am bullet direction. okay, we're gonna be cleaning up that area of the world for the next 20 years. just like we're doing in vietnam, we're still cleaning up vietnam from them. land mines and other munitions that are in your mom. i'm 12 and 13 year olds, lose arms, hands and legs almost weekly in vietnam. still, we've got a little bit of head way going on right now, but that's, that's the detritus of being powers wars. that's the detritus of america's work. and all of this. so the lockheed martin and raytheon and groman and

a host of other defense companies can make built the loop or all these weapons as to what is the last throw the dice or i don't know you're in virginia and maybe your neighbors know, is it or is it part of the escalation, once they said only helmets to the green war, then it was, you know, vis or that missile that it was patriots that it was tanks. and now it's f sixteens . that is the cost of them the last in that line or does it go further? i hope it doesn't go any further. i hope it doesn't even go that far. i live oddly enough, commodities, but you know, i live amongst some of the type aids, general dynamics lockey. this is one of the richest it not be rich as counties in america. and it is so largely because of the lawyers for and the ceo's and c o is the weapons industry bring your neighbors in for the next time we do the interviews, i loved to have coffee with them, some like that. they don't offer you the likes with me now. i'm just driving around this area. well,

tell you what's happening. just driving around america and look at looking at military bases. will tell you what's happening. cosmo haul's, i've never seen so much money spent on the military. they don't know where to spend it. they haven't got a clue how to spend all this money. so they weren't over at the end of each fiscal year with billions left over that they haven't spent. this is obscene, but we're doing it because we're increasing the profits astronomically these people who run these merchants of death companies. i mean, do the neighbors have ukraine flags out? they've, they've subsided in wisdom capitals in, in your a. but people say there's a lot of money in the letter on the hamptons, but in that virginia, maryland area, since the ukraine. they're not too many flags out now. they're worse. i'm in the beginning. i think the american people basically are waking up to the fact that something's wrong here. and that this war's gone on too long. at the same time, the,

or you have profits generated and no blood. that's the best of all possible world for the c, e ocean. these people who run these arms companies, they are not killing any americans. and yet they're making a fortune off the weapons that are sold into this conflict. and that's the best of all possible yours for them. you sit down at a, at a shareholder meeting. you say ladies and german, ladies and gentlemen, businesses good wars, good. we're making pro off. is that the? yeah. and you're getting your share price. you're getting what you want, you're getting your dividends and services is great until it ends. and it ends badly. if we put china to one side, the next war, that's the open lead being talked about. would trump and the war in ukraine? that's a good question. he would say you would, but like all the other words, he said he was going to an adult. he would do it. he didn't initiate any. you know,

the republican party is buried in this oligarchy that i spoke of. so is the democratic party, whether it's chuck schumer or standing away, or whomever, obviously are as k, junior is also running, but opposed to the war. the republican party from mitch mcconnell on there, they're buried in this complex. they get re elected because of this complex and the money provided them by this complex. so he could do certainly more than any main democratic contender. i just don't, i don't see my main problem with trump. besides so many others that you would know it is, he's not as smart as he says he is. and he doesn't understand how the government works. and he doesn't understand that. draining a small means you have to go in, grab the alligators by the neck and show them to the easiest he's, he's afraid to do. the people are or people are afraid of doing that kind of thing . i think uh, you know, i've had a lot of tell us about it. we've had examples of what happens when you speak on

draining the swamp. maybe your, what we're going to see examples of what happens to people. i don't know,