really different dates, cetera. mm hm. and so the eventually ended up about in, in, in the summer of the 2015. yeah. about a year and a half later. and they looked in as of saying they didn't do this damn out of been accused of any wrong doing. they basically said this guy doesn't have his protocol in place, so cancel is brand. wow. and i protested, i provided the various regulators including and as a and i age and the usda, you're not a united states department of agriculture, which are all regulatory bodies in question, evidence of document town bring, etc. and they all look the other way and the, the most or bridges, or a couple of things where national science foundation said it, we by law it good repeatedly and said,

is that they contended that by law they're required not to look into whistleblower complaint. while complaints about animal welfare, which makes no sense at all, no, no sense. i have no sense at all. i have to ask you what may be a little bit of a naive question. but it seems to me that none of this would have happened. if the other research or the researcher who had given the the monkey and overdose had said, my goodness, i did something terrible. it was an accident. i overdosed the monkey and he passed away. i'll fill out the form and we inform the government. none of this would have happened. why either, why wasn't that the case? why not just just be honest about it and say, i made a mistake, the correct? and it's a short answer is, you know, sometimes it's a, it's a, it's not the crime itself, but the cover of the prime and exactly, exactly,

it was very much. yeah. it was very much like that. they could have said that and it could have come from nothing because everybody mates, most dates and, and in a, in it man research you tried to minimize most states, but sometimes mistakes happen. and the thing is, if you really care about the animals, if you really care about the law, you make up for it and you do your darn estimates or doesn't help them again. that's right. none of that happen here, as i don't know why the university and i was, i didn't do the right thing, but my best informed me guess is as follows. the university was already under the radar of animal rights activities or previous violations. and they had to take them, you know, there was a publicity, etc. so they clearly had a motive to not to encumber additional,

publish it. and i think that i, that's my best guess as to why they wanted the whole thing to go away. and if there was a clear pattern that i kept on the days retaliated against me, when that they didn't set me up, they turned in an odd job and then so it basically tells them escalated and eventually ended up into their um, uh, asking anisette for no reason no, to terminate my plan. what was your longer term experience with the university or even in the broader research industry was the university's response to your whistle blowing in keeping with the way it normally did business. and if not, why do you think they went after you in the way that they did? i, i think it was either. they had to come clean with the facts and they take it. if the past past step to something it would raise more questions. that's my best guess

. mm hm. um and so they just had to basically hunker down and, and stay with their original version. neil or i'm sure they've appeared that people raised more questions. now having said that, the university of half of the senate looked at it, they held in a hearing on the roles and everything. and they the committee that heard my case unanimously ruled in my favor. and as a university president, to take corrective actions have been investigated by an external entities so that there is no conflict of interest, etc. and, and the university president is with no installation at all tempers that i'm not going to take your recommendation. we are speaking with dr. j heck day he is a scientist and whistleblower from the university of augusta on the issue of animal

research. please stay with us. we're going to take a short break and come right back. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 of the 50, the youngest as of today because there's a lot of censorship on many topics in schools that start to just the migration topic. to my impression it went on mr. thomas changed on back it went on to send them a call. you see it's, i mean, there was no, there was no way of debate. it was either or that's another s. and now it's about russia and it's about, yes, we have to fight russia and russia has to be taken off the map. the

3 with the, the, you know, for the final step in this concept, taught them less funds to us from the, from the, as always, from the end to the do it in bt dufrane. you could keep the way in the politics, just give us an edge. it's on the shelf, so we're still in the open use in the little ball coming in. the crucial just means for the rest of the. it's also the news with the bonus between these 2 of the 423. so they use the one with actually to and you're going to fix that will be going to listen to all the sudden gross issue. you need assistance. they need to know something. and you will think about this, you have to get into the use of those circumstances. this material to split even in this will play, you need to locate those. my tell me i'm still open and it doesn't happen. often

the degrees of the me have yet to me. sick those pictures are correct. yes, please, and you'll to pick the most clarity has the most the most out of special this is openings and it took a little something to skip the welcome back to the suppliers. i'm john korea. we're speaking with animal research whistleblower doctor j. heck. day doctor. every day, thanks again for being with us. thank you. i want to ask you a few more specific questions about your case. i've read several affidavits that clearly and unequivocally show that you have told the truth from the beginning of this case. it seems to me that the university would just want to cut its losses by walking away from this. i've been in a similar situation where the aggressor made

a settlement offer and then just quit. but that hasn't happened here. can you speculate as to why that is there have been, so let me back up and say, i have an ad to wizard, lower case under georgia was a door attaches against the university and the board of regents. and there been settlement times, but i'm not allowed to go into the details of this met the settlement times, but i can tell you that that's a general matter my position in. i don't want the university or anybody else to throw money at me and expect me to have said because that hurts the animals that i've heard is the cause of loss. so compliance with the law, etc. so i want accountability and i want this as a community and the university learn from the experience to make sure that this doesn't happen again. mm hm. and i've always, my position has been,

i would not settled for anything other than that. i'm also interested to know what the reaction has been. i'm on your colleagues in any industry, but especially in the hard sciences. success is based on truth. anything that is not based on verifiable, facts ought not be considered. but again, that's not what happened here. does the university's position on this case not do harm to its long term prospects and this area of animal research isn't the university just turning itself by continuing to fight this the, there is the rubber band and that is, in this case. um i think there is a share appear, but in the part of the lot of people that they, they just want this to go link right. and why a lot of people, i mean, including government agencies. so they had the room and agencies like and it says, and the us department of agriculture simply dropped the ball. they didn't follow it,

you know, but there was one agency that'd be, that'd be level 50 is picking cars out, have jurisdiction, and agency called old office of laboratory animal welfare of our national institute of health. and don't get me wrong. national insurance account is, is a very upstanding organization, does great work. and the, and by and large, there are officials are highly principal and ethical, but phone law clearly active and not just in my opinion, not just on as a delay. ready but even mentally have criminal cover up of this because they said on the one hand they said we had certified that the number. that's the university and it did everything by the book of the did not come, did not violate an animal welfare act in any way. and when push

came, so when i pressed for details, they said we don't even have jurisdiction. in this case. ready because it was the monkey was not covered by the national institutes of health brand, but the national science foundation right now. but at the same time, they were telling the inspector general of the national science foundation that they were certifying that they looked into this. there's nothing wrong here there. there's no, nothing wrong with just move on. and there's one person that uh who was uh, whose signature is on a lot of these certifications that absent was last name, spelled w o l fs. and i have no doubt in my mind, my mind that he and knowingly engage in and misconduct as a government official the pedals that university covered up. and that is

significant because once they've got this clean bill is held, so to speak from all the university could turn around and say, look, it's been looked at, there's nothing here in the one and that's exactly and what it ended up happening. so in other words, augusta university was able to use the old law certification to say that it's been looked at. there's nothing does here hold on. right. one of the affidavits submitted in support of your position says that there were, quote, many other on ethical, possibly illegal occurrences related to monkey welfare and the regulatory infrastructure at augusta university on quote. can you tell us a little bit about that? would you expect federal regulators to become involved in a situation like this? i have compared to everybody including congress at the department of justice and obviously all law and etc,

etc. and i think one of the things that is happening is a confirmation bias, because there are other agencies that either i think this is old meals, or there's no problem here because they all think, oh, our own law has already looked at it and decided there's nothing to it, and therefore we don't wanna look at it even, which is precisely the problem because an animal research not just to us university but. ready in our country as a whole, work time in our system where you have something wrong. the regulated parties, namely the universities and the researchers have the responsibility to report a proper lead to the government and take propose corrective actions. and right now the, the fact of the matter is, is the system is very easy to gain,

which is not to say that everybody cheats most people who play by the rules. but if somebody like, in this case, the, what happened in this case, if somebody wants to achieve cheating is ridiculously easy because all you need to do is say to the government with us for a phase that they looked at it, there's nothing here. and the government uses that the, especially the agency is like for a certified turnaround and longed right then sort of by and say that there's nothing untoward happened here which then turned in turn the university can use to say, look, the government gave us a clean bill of health and therefore nothing must have happened. so in other words, it is kind of a like a, a look where at all you need to get it started and all you need to do is have the, uh, the one in. so just be the lie to the government with the straight face. and that

is, it should not be acceptable in any well, it is not acceptable to mileage through the searchers. um and most of my of the searchers uh privately and tell me my fellow researches tell me that this is not right. it should be pitched. how have investigators or regulators responded to this? this has been dragging on for 9 years now. have you gotten any satisfaction? no, not at all. the. again, not me personally. i mean, i then would tell it again. so i would like to be made a whole, but there's a larger problem here that this case is a poster child for. and that is, it demonstrates that the government agencies, such as all of the work to this feed whistle blowing, which is why wizard blowing and animal welfare is especially pays where government

agencies use government resources and power the actually longer. and the criminal activities and the feed visible and that has a change. and so this is the larger point i want your audience to take a take from this and that is quite beyond what happened to me personally the, the regulatory process in animal research is so it's not just as functional as for all the reasons that i mentioned this badly read some whereby most people are honest, but if you really want to a game, the system is ridiculously easy to do. so dr. j heck j, thank you so much for joining us. and thanks to our viewers for joining us as well . i'm reminded today of the words of the great author and future as george orwell. he said, intellectual honesty is a crime in any to a tele, terry,

and country. but even in england, it is not exactly profitable to speak and write the truth in england. such concepts as justice, liberty, and the objective truth are still believed in. they may be illusions, but they are very powerful illusions. that was prove england and the 1940s. it also appears to be true about augusta georgia in 2023. i'm john kerry aku and this has been the whistle blowers, thanks for joining us until next time. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the part of our executive and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do, do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different.

whitelisted all opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do they have the state department c. i a weapons bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called direction. but again, we don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you a nice sort of questions for solving for now are you me because my jump right now is no problem ma'am. ma'am. you know about the last, the

light, the,

the order will adjust the nice full people, the dead with 9 other than hospital with severe the softest scolding boy think. gosh, is one of the us type. and then most go shopping center a russian will. correspondence is killed by ukrainian close to bones with most. it was saying that he is on this western arm supply is the full responsibility for the attack. also coming up on the, on the street to the wrong as people protest against swedish officials. full, again, authorizing a co wrong the funding event. plus the g 20 energy ministers failed to reach a consensus on an official communicate as they pull outs over the ukraine conflict as well. those folks will feel the

a very well welcome. this is all the international with the late as well news update is great to have you with us. now we'd begin with a tragic news here in moscow. west full people have been confirmed that and schools injured is a cut with a pipe bust at the seasons. shopping center south, west of the city, also use donald cool springs as more for this, the according to emergency services, specifically the firefighters. the situation is now under control after a hot water pipe burst and the small scale mall, which you can see behind me sending hot steam throughout the building, according to moscow is may or 4 people were killed. and there, this is also being investigated, has a case of criminal negligence. now that's according to russia's investigative committee. now media reports of also been saying that dozens of people have been injured around 10 of them have been hospitalized and emergency services had been

working on the scene here for a long time. now there wasn't evacuation going on for some time, and we were even able to speak with a couple of people who were evacuated from the building. let's take a list of steps. i saw people looking alarmed on the 3rd floor where i work. i saw people looking down towards the escalators, we saw a steam rising on, so smell of hot water. i went down to the 1st floor, all the water was on the 1st floor. then i went upstairs and we stood for 15 to 20 minutes. and there was no announcement, no one said anything. people went to the shops and only after 15 to 20 minutes, the guard told us that it was time to go out, close everything and leave quickly. i was very worried and didn't understand why we weren't being evacuated earlier when the burst had just taken place. media reports were saying that around 20 people were trapped inside the building, mostly on the 3rd floor and in the food court area. but we recently attended a press conference held by the emergency services. they said that the evacuation has been completed and nobody's left inside the building. and right now,

the authorities are working inside to get to the bottom of what caused this pipe burst to the front line. and rushes examples here we do now where will correspondent wolf, his love is sure to have the off has been killed by you. crazy and shelly that will select several of his colleagues is wounded. mosca was blamed. t, as on this western sponsors for the as rusty everything points to the fact that the attack on the journalist group was not a coincidence. the correspondence collected materials for a report on the shelling of the sap rosure regions settlements by key for she militants with cluster munitions which are banned in many countries of the world. those that are supplied to keep by the united states. washington, along with london in paris, which supply does the landscape regime with long range missiles, only verbally express, concerned about the safety of journalists, but in fact, they are sponsors of terrorists. those guilty of the brutal massacre of

a russian journalist will in everett, police suffer the punishment they deserve. the entire measure of responsibility will be shared by those who supply their keep proteges with cluster munitions. around midday, on such a group of just came under attack from ukrainian on forties. now we understand that they were traveling in a calling this out for rose, your region where they had been investigating the ukrainian use of custody, munitions, a cool face. controversial weapons are being supplied by the united states. now, the russian defense ministry has confirmed that those 2 and this came on to find themselves from the very close to munitions that they were investigated. to know a number of gen is helping wounded. they were rushed to hospital and body, sadly, as we heard, well, just love, a jewel of a real know boss, me will correspondence was killed in the attack on the number of others that have

been wounded to varying degrees on the head of his upper rogia region. has pay tribute to the wall correspondence. this young talented guys proves the truth from the very 1st day. it covered real life and this brushy region was on the front line more than once, personal and new men and military men and did not stand the side of civilians needed help. today he died at the hands of king of nonsense. i express my deepest condolences to his family and friends. cool. so this whole place that decision by the united states to supply the home traversal cost the munitions on the closer scrutiny. but of course, it is not the 1st time that you cried. new forces have attract john this uh we heard uh most recently the assassination attempt to the parts to til the head of our team all got a to simon. yeah. and that was on covered by the russian intelligent services. last year, recalls, perhaps most notoriously due, gonna was killed in a call bomb explosion in most go now geneva convention protexture and they started

to attack them, is i will kind bucks. many of these many such attacks like this and the killing of wounding and targeting of june. this has a post without remark, without comment from many of the weld press freedom organizations, which is perhaps on surprising considering the largest of those of generally funded by the us state department, us side on the national endowment for democracy. of course, working it was a, is a dangerous occupation, but many of those are being targeted outside of the was own. and that helped by the mood for its uh website, which is essentially a kill it. so you create new toners, but it is hosted in langley, virginia, which is the home of the a, c i. but once again, we can see that the training and forces are simply ignoring international law as they continue to act with impunity. ellia we supposed to join a list and found

a dumbass inside a christ on the on who says a journalist to feed on kids target list for other 9 years now. and so the, since the beginning of the constraint that the general list are a special targets for you, then you create an army. we have to remember that in 2014, many generally swear cubes by deliberate shillings of their position or of the calls in which they were moving. so unfortunately, for me, it's not to surprise what happens and i'm really sad because i knew what else to solve. i met him last year at the beginning of this special operation. we see that the weapons which are provided to ukraine by the west are more and more, really terrible. i mean, you'd be gone with the lights with friends, and now we have cluster immunizations and watch. it wouldn't be next. it's really to remote. we know that these close to our munitions are really horrible. i mean, they are killing a lot of civilians. they are staying in the ground for long period. we have seen

that in vietnam where it's to keeping and routine 18 people until now the hon. gary and prime minister say is, you are believed to say that illusionary well leaving the russia can be taught how to the international markets like to open also onto the divers 70 percent of european companies are still operating in russia. of course, europe can be separated from russian energy, but this is actually an illusion and will have no effect because russia cannot be separated from the rest of the world. someone else will buy russian oil materials and who are suffering from mil to inflation and losing our competitiveness. a hung gary and the head of state statements on the impacts of sanctions on russia is being proven true already. a gas agreement has been reached between russian gas from this bank is done, which will create a new energy supply system with but with georgia, saw me where the i see the research fellow with the global policy is to, to,

to set that your pm states a losing the leading economic positions due to these policies. because um your needs, uh, russian energy its has been the key to its uh, he cannot make success particularly they economic success of the german age is reading economy. and essentially, to cut yourself off from russian energy means you have to get your energy somewhere . oh, well that's somewhere else. is of course much more expensive. and if you remember a few months ago when emmanuel, my college said, yeah, what if we get around liquefied natural gas from the united states? it's actually going to cost us both times as much as a, well we were getting from russia. so the europe is essentially becoming gradually irrelevant to the rest of the world. and i think in that same speech, you said that within a few years, um, now the, the european economy is,

will be in the top 10 of the world economy. as a says in germany alone may come in at number 10, but from easily the u. k. which is simply be, you know, out, you know, they've just moved will begin significant in the, in the world rankings. western countries all make a mistake often mistaking their approach to what, what's most go as, according to a russian deputy farm is like a wrapped off. you supposed to warranty obama says reasons for pulling out of the grain deal along with all the issues the size of the us and other western countries and making mistake after mistake. in general, they pop in recent years is a positive mistakes and sufferings, suffering, not actually own masses of international affairs, but in the inability to combine their ambitions to the arrogant expectation that everyone around the sure to pay them what they see in practice. well, someone.