drains stores, steps with needles, blessings under the guise of wanting to either health. this incompetent, slovenly, useful idiot, zalinski as he's qualified in this polish process. or maybe, you know, just punch him and his country square in the face with a polish battalion depends which side of the bed, bipolar poland wakes up on. i guess action was house is up next with the latest edition of the building on the ground. and we'll be back with more on the latest news updates and assessing minutes to the, the time action or time seeing welcome back to going underground broke of single around the world from do buying the you a this week st. petersburg, russia will play hose to have

a 3000 delegates from 16 nations coming together for the 2nd rush, your advocate summit, but the geo political landscape has drastically changed since they last met in 2019 washington's ongoing conflict with russia playing out on ukrainian. so i was re shaped the world order and it's the ripples of being felt in africa whose lead has failed last month in their efforts to secure a peace plan. to help us understand africa's shifting geo political landscape is a man known for his stand against corruption as well. i'm a director of kenya event corruption commission is professor patrick blog, or general lumber renowned lawyer and found out for goodness he joins me now from nairobi. thank you so much a pillow so away from mass purchasing nairobi. let's just talk about the summit in st. petersburg after this africa piece plan failed. can africa, and african leaders and the war in europe there. thank you very much for the invitation. so let me begin by saying,

is that i'm one who is never too enthusiastic about africa needed? is it being effective? loose someone outside of the continent? i would myself prefer if i'm going to lead does uh con being denied. just stop by your p. o. any of the con, there is a brick stomach coming out, lead us over the country is come to africa. i find the whole idea of us are gonna lead is going to europe to be around that can be sending. but not with responding. i hollered with a view that alfred has that role to play in the affairs of the and the must be done now because international, political, and economic i'll get this job has been weighed up in software. remember that many international institutions, including the u. n. well, putting together when the majority of africa, nations i've not regained de,

depends. but one must be very circumspect. because many times africa you just but up pulling in the political chess board. all why the powers were that those powers are the united states of america. they will be in the countries all around, shall china or top key. and the time is now that aspect of my smell and the fee and recognize that if you behave like grass, you will be eaten by books and cods. so as presumably africa is going to right now, enter the world stage, it has done, i'll give leave for this ukraine more. i don't know whether you read about the reports when the african leaders were stopped by security on the plane in poland and so on. i, i find it very candidly, but if you listen to the reports that then they monday, the from ukraine or even portland,

or different parts of the was the leaders who lead the 1 may by the south africa city. let them a lot of them up or what needs to do with the content in many ways. and in my view, that in itself is indicative of the added to the of many countries in europe, america, they've been rushed and the venue grades so that one is candid. these are the steps that are being made by africa. why not treated with the seriousness that they deserved, and it is incumbent upon off for the to now recognize that in order to be treated seriously, they have to re engineer the brush in my view and i listen to the also going to be the one to pull them, they will not in this, just take the step so i not from on on. they don't to themselves. i did not see the clarity on the function on the confidence that they needed in order to be on this

to does that when into the arena, they will, uh, people. okay. and when do you, the 2nd position start does that you must be on the ball. if you remember the ideas of the not a line, the movement on positive, they're trying to do when you have plumbing room, i'll come on up in the center and people are like canoe. and to at that time, then on the line, the movement was not a line, but positively neutral on spoke funny. if they is live something they said they do not like it. i want to hear from you about, well, i want to hear from you about what happened to those need is in a 2nd, but arguably, your room about russia shortly. because your name le mamba, off to the great patrice lumber and russian rush as a university avenue university, named up to the african liter lumber. they. they respected africa that far i'm not wrong. i taught 1st of all, remember that what you're talking about with the soviet union,

and i'm not the one who it is impressed to me any because you've named that usually advisory after patrice emily to but we also know that russia has participated as been positive and sudden areas, but definitely the annoying angels. yeah, no angels, the idea of geo political interest, which they want to pop up to 8 and it cannot be denied. so i'm not going to use this for them to sign it's i is that i ship. i'm going to speak candidly on family . i'm how i feel and i'm not going to be paid to to, to appear to live crush. just simply because you're based in most. i'm no, i don't know when, oh me too much good. we're basically do by. but then going back to your mind about what happens to lead is what happens to improve as praising that i shall not, but what speak the truth as i said, planning and what happens to leave is of the, the normal line movement as it is today, i mean,

i knew you say that the advocate piece negotiating team for ukraine could have displayed a little bit more confidence, a little bit more backboard that you're gonna have to remind us about band doing. and so call i know, in indonesia and what happened to developing will lead is that showed that kind of backbone, you know, advocate historically, i know you're going to say that this time around, hopefully they won't, will be assassinated by the c. i a let us assign, let us go back into history a little because that is the time when the log was just ended. india is a gain dion defenders. and there is a bible for now, was with the soviet, as a power on the united states, as a power and the leaders of liberty independent countries. us saying we don't want to be poured into the arena and we don't want to be phones in the political or just book and then for president. so kind of indonesia, joe, a lot of manual and india, just simply browse the thought of us,

not the come on up in the center of egypt and climbing google amount of data. text the view that we wanted to play a role with the mentors. mia? a phones in this chest book that is being played on these. what does this all visionary design need? does what create and what they wanted, they need us to find the forefront wanda, mind up every level. so kinda was under the mind. and the blue model was overthrown . government i've been study, you know, was all undermined on that. when he left office. i've been neutralized legal cause we saw the might of doing something lot onset i was i loved the dog and just didn't browse. did the costs in the fullness of time did much more to the soviet union. and we know what happened to him in terms of the economic, sometimes taxes of us an idea. and then is the situation in which the lead us found

the solid. you an active c, i a you, on the, you being particularly the british what typically the laptops of the united states of america. then that's defense via for is the number line. the movement did not gain the option that you'd want to, to gain, and be sure there was, but didn't really ask the united nations with this permanent members also did to undermine the non aligned movement. and as we speak today, the movement really is out of the, in the history alongside the spinning wheel. and when we see the margins of bricks on countries coming together, it is then i tend to rehash, then on the line a moment. but even then not on a particular picture, you will find the countryside just china, brazil, on the in the, i've been some silent competition to be the leaders on breaks. and that is not

uncommon. and it is in the context that we must understand the geopolitical realities of the world. the, the, i know all the boys, the, i know good somebody tons in this game. everybody is playing with the cards on the table. and we must not be cooked when by it is a nice that is where there is diplomatic speak. arguably, there's no one under those illusions. the difference would be that this time around rather than a normal line movement without nuclear weapons, don't align movement this time around. if it is indeed break. so the showing i cooperation organization is that it's one with allies who are incredibly powerful with most of the world's population, but with a larger proportion of the nuclear weapons of the world as well. i just want to get onto the fact that you were talking about the, the non line movement in the 1st place. how controlled would you say the media is

in london, you capitals, power spill in rome, etc. because they media didn't carry much, really about the advocate piece, but, and plans for ukraine. and they certainly hardly talk when they do sometimes mention reparations and slavery. they don't mention what you talk of as regards a, c, i a killing mass, killing and undermining and elimination. of the most charismatic leaders and movements of the developing world, you know, the live, it does not conflict upon the killing of the on to the i'm, this is going to learn this fund dionte power was done when i talked about data being fall as i'm talking about the conceptual west equity and to those free on kind of the and i know across the united states of america and india and spoken and sometimes even in the art of god at the moment they are saying what good can

come out of africa. and that is the attitude behind even when the so the article lead has been through russia on do you play this said, let's wait and see what kind of the x and this is, what has to be fine during the bank of america over the years under this idle guns is informed by the fact that they don't mean they, they've told me of the world. it is informed by the fact that they don't mean they literally directly. it is informed by the fact that they are not kids on 5th call. i missed in many of the countries um for that reason, they still order the view that they must have really, they're just unable to see any african country or any of the group of african leaders is trying to do something that is a positive then beyond the mind big because they think that they are, they are fund the on that and then he's, and he is very some countries are this united that'll be on the,

for the present. they can do is to of today as some kind of figure to wherever is confronting the economies under it is in the context therefore that you must see the attitude and the media is arnold granite. i'm completely not independent if you listen to media houses. so i just paid you most of a low bbc, a little all from and so or these are the media is it has already on not it is one of the same interesting is positive in africa in the night. if it is negative, it is if it is, simon, if it is, uh uh, give you call this content all injections then report it. so the maple database does nothing can come out of the continent of africa. that is good. as they used to say, the bible, one good thing can come out of the mazda service, provides a piano. remember,

i'll stop you there. more from the right now and lawyer involvement, director of can use energy corruption commission. after this break, the, the watching is why isn't why in this control, if i give vote plenty of the store in this, this, you should have been a short order for not imagine just the last name scale. when i am what i could catch at your desktop session. let's just sean your just a bunch of mine is going you sit on. no, it's not the the, the, the

welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with professor po number, renowned lawyer and former director of can use anti corruption commission. you know, uh professor we were talking about one about um, the arrogance of western media and west impact. of course, one big good conversation in nature, a nation media or is a will or i'm a post rest puts you into the break summit that's coming up. now we know the boot in the isn't going to go there. do you think it of someone like, well my purse, i would have come under a lot of pressure as regards v i c. c, which is a quote that i don't know what you think of really it to just proportionately attacks. a lead is of african countries at the expense of other countries. me, it is. first of all, let me say that the i c c of this packet of room. what was well intention, but the data has demonstrated in the money and we just conducted ourselves. but

he's be old into something powers. i remember during the presidency of president trump t, as my just said, that if they find to do anything against americans, then he would sanction the judges. and therefore, it is a court that has been intimidated. and the, the only bad, the actually said, the military and military attack holland, the haig, i'm sure. so when, when do you, when you look at the court side to the eyes, then what it is good for now is the quote that should be disbanded. and in my view, it is used as a political tool against weed countries use very effectively against african leaders and use. now, as is in the case of russia by america on the west, on countries to intimidate the prison or russia, let me put this and i have no doubt in my mind the prison drum. of course, i may have ended very subtle ways to receive representations,

but if the president boynton comes costs going to be interested and you can begin to imagine even print then they didn't want to be interested in the rest you're doing. right. and then the install cost, okay, it would be a declination of wall and solved off without the ops does not want to see. i saw inside this equation prison put in may be, as i told them, i'm going to display you with the pain on the bus to be with not at the end of the roots meeting, but it is sub but it be international institutions which created on the basis of a sound, the principles of i didn't do manipulated on minutes themselves susceptible to manipulation and create an environment where the country is we job done. traditionally, the dna is that provided that one to choose who you are friends, the one to choose where you and it is uh, and then the south from the rooftops about democracy and about the subject of

sudden is to know and well there are supposed to be security agreements, in addition to showing i cooperation, organization commitments that are going to be signed in russia at the restaurant. i forget summit this week between african nations. but in the face of african government cooperation with the i m f. what does it actually mean? i looked at the latest, i am f districts, angola, 3000000000, their african countries that owe this money to the i'm of 1000000000 camera room and i'm just picking them off, you know, 13000000000 to egypt. i know ukraine has just got 10000000 from the i m f, but african countries involving the width of poverty are owing a lot of money. south africa, 3100000000 owing to the i m f. what do you think they should default to the i am asked for if they going to have a get the country's populations out of poverty? i know this poverty in the developed world as well. but in the developing world in africa, you know, one of the things that i think it is present to my son,

colorado said to 1987. that a lot of the thing that we must do a soft kind of countries is to make a position that the money is owed to. why a mess on the phone with is not being paid on the not true payable on these. what is going to going to do the fund installment for the patients was liberty and put in an ice age. and i, or about the i or the view that also going to be the should be bold enough to sit in our this up on medical isn't we? shouldn't the knowledge that you have seen the friend, the belgians, the dodge, and the british or, or be in the not by not mit that they commit to that trust. it is, we, uh, you need to have these say that what we now owe as loans because due to the 1st installment payments and then be going to that it was the issue of the modem on double payment. if they did that on the private assumption as they cannot function, all the default country,

the only thing that they can threaten as these military option. but people wouldn't be something that ought to be done. but who has the coverage to better the cause that is to put a new patient. if you apply something that is united must something that is united so that you don't have a few people are running away. i'm saying we are not a part of it, but that is the only way. remember that the i a mass was created in 1944, and this is john body and addition was designed not meant another was not designed . 5 countries media simply grafted into the i'm a scheme and the i invest the way i look the way to be a is not a body that is a go to somebody. does they want to keep you in constant slippery you can never around the way of the sooner off of the country is recognized that the safe i will be when else i am. if it tells you that you a corner to me is doing well. do you want to be very wider because means big stuff

or was it and some of the money that i owed, bath what kind of countries i'm money is that if somebody says no domestically on days, but for some reason we don't want to use all the donald resources, but human nature and we find ourselves be owned and there's a lot to do. shilo us will be able to watch our program on thomas design car on our rumble channel they own though, as of this month, around $282000000.00 pounds. that is already got dollars making a fast. so right now, why do you think it is? i mean, obviously the, i'm have deny, they say there, but i'm institution of, off from dominique strauss con, leave old and managing director of the i m f f. i'm guilty of rape. and of course, christine, the god found guilty of a negligence sentenced to a year in prisons, you didn't serve it apart from that. the, i'm as a what you're saying is completely wrong. they try and help the world. what

pressure is exerted on these african leaders have to pay. i think i've can use figure here somewhere. um, you know, i mean the, they're free the democracies. what are these african countries go to worry about? if they say, look, we can be spending huge motions about federal budget on debt servicing. most of the leaders certainly come for a live there on the government's some of we shop clipped across to governments. we have corruption, these rump, and where it was to just trump, and whereas they themselves are not beyond reproach at the personal level. i need to definitely very easy to intimidate them by telling them if you don't pay long. if you don't be a be a bunk lips policy, and that is why you find individuals who i position to be the should be an awful lot. the model probably a few need as well. i kind of back when i would wizard, is this the, the i am if you would see it in the army days of people like to be

a somebody out and yet it can escalate window. even more recently people have done, joseph bummed, remodel fully. they will respond up to the i am if the cause that a pass on a level, they have no accounts, ice outside of the country. they did not transfer any skeletons. why does the old note? and therefore, they had the cottage, but the majority of the leaders, we have now lots of model time due to due to confront of the i m. s. but do you think the ukraine conflict is having these echoes through africa? because we saw how the american back to the tpr laughing at t gray when neutralized when extend to be able to keep that info a few up. you ever tray a piece deal going we've seen recently, the breakthrough and the good down between ethiopia or in egypt. do you think the united states is taking its eye off the bowl to allow that is, in effect allowing africa to certain parts of african to regroup and create peace

and hopes for the future. you know, there is this or say that you do not trust the greeks event when they've been be, if they could be a truly general wallace. i'm the and i, i'm never the one who assumes that the width of the country is and the united states of america is corporate sense. means well, if anything happens that is good, it is incidental rather than something guy just mad they're taking their eye off the ball. yet they may know they never take the i of the boat, whatever you see them do is a doctor called if you see them moving out of something, i do think that the of the, the, the i is not the body's not the i is always the own double on they may mix something top to co changes which you think in your best interest, but the trucks and the amendment to fulfill a brand agenda. and ultimately they will come for you a joke, you know, a, well,

that's a, that's a bit worrying. when they kind of always, always when i noticed this change and can be a policy way your speaking to be from, because uh, give me the canyon investor to the u. n. mazda in the kamani. and then he appeared like go see a central costing on the vote on ukraine. and now then the, so again, i have role russian foreign minister was a welcome to a, to nairobi on the 29th of may emblematic of lots of african countries that are changing their views and realizing the geo political balance is changing. they don't have to evade washington the way they used to you. i mean, you have a military base, north of nairobi don't use their british soldiers occupying parts of your country. is that is very true. and that is the problem that we have in many african countries, the to many times because of the presence of this ministry basis is asked if we

simply a box yard or from a corner. nice is because the train us so yes, they have uh boots on the ground and you have 33 and a in many ways they turned into fear with your country, admitted tiredly. they share intelligence with your country. we do intelligent institutions. but what one is beginning to see not and as a sustain model, but at least at the level of rhetoric, african leaders that african country is beginning to get to 80. they to buy these added to the list of countries where they treat us. if you are a little schoolboys on school does, and if you reason, listen recently to the south africa for and administer. ponder, she's been very kind. it doesn't appear that you don't have and you should never cry be choose friend for us on don. choose interviews for us in these

ukrainian, this travel over the news that shown ukrainian walls we choose to be. it can be neutral on the neutrality is informed by history, because that's critical times in the history of the independence travel, the soviet union as it then was supported. many also can countries on those memories, uh say it isn't that they was pointing the african countries i can't do the power as well. now i look getting laws on democracy and we just themselves conducted 130 on democratic on to really a thing. institutions on a systems in the african countries. so then the college comes in uh, in faces, but there's no sustained and remember is that the, what is happening is the effect on the countries us to very much of divided with the french still controlling the former qualities. the british also is through the

institution of the commonwealth also does so the, the i'm gone or the portuguese to alyssa expand on the merits of cost is the $1.00 bedroom on which the due dates to many countries from washington d. c. and then on i use the instrument for that particular termination and i think they are the instrument that is used for them. the nation is a military threat that if you don't behave we, we can, someone is dition worship off the cause, the atlantic or india understand a few tomahawks and see how you would behave. so i'm going to countries find themselves in a situation that is very different, for example, from russia, which has a new b, which is a new be a powerful oboski is donell, india or china. african countries run drug armies in any event which can be designated in a few hours, provides a piano,

lumber. thank you. thank you. that's it for the show. we'll be back on saturday with a brand new episode until then. you can give it to us. why would i social media or if it's up sensitive in your country and had to have channel going on, the ground tv on normal dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground . so you just have the, the the

what is the ukraine complex? really all about we're told is about democracy. other say it's about the res baseboard or whatever that to me is that there is nothing noble about this conflict . it's just another huge grip. those in power want to keep it, that was the, an active international terrorism. that's how russia brands, the latest ukrainian, rhode attacked on both sides as the way the fragments crash into to building the non safe protest. the rob today as well as the is where the problem is or prove comes with the digital reforms limiting do supreme court power.