it's a painful and wounded dozens more. a terrorist attack or to the military training academy in mogadishu, oppose the saying that a suicide fall. my sneak into the army training facility, there's been no official response from the somali or far sees a local kite affiliated terrorist group. allison bob has claimed responsibility for the attack. many thanks, way company. hey, on, on the international this month they were 5 at the top of the hours sent to the master time saying, welcome back to going underground broke of single around the world from you buying the you a this week st. petersburg, russia will play hose to have a $3000.00 delegates from 16 nations coming together for the 2nd rush advocate

summit. but the geopolitical landscape has drastically changed since they last making 2019 washington's ongoing conflict with russia playing out on ukrainian. so i was re shaped the world older and it's ripples of being felt in africa is lead has failed last month in their efforts to secure a peace plan to help us understand africa's shifting geo political landscape is a man known for his stand against corruption is when the director of kenya's into corruption commission is progressive, patrick block, or general lumber, renown lawyer and pan african as he joins me now from nairobi. thank you so much. a pillow so away from mass protests in nairobi. let's just talk about this summit in st. petersburg, after this africa piece plan failed, can africa, and african leaders and the war in europe there. thank you very much for the invitation. so let me begin by saying, is that i'm one who is never too enthusiastic about africa need. is it

being effective, lou? someone outside of the continent i would myself prefer if i'm going to lead does uh con being denied, just stop by your p. o. any of the con, there is a brick stomach coming out. leaders of the countries come to africa. i find the whole idea of us are going to need is going to europe to be around the country sending but not with responding. i hard of the view that often has that role to play in the affairs of the and the must be done now because international, political, and economic i'll get this job has been weighed up in software. remember that many international institutions, including the u. n. while about putting together when the majority of africa, nations i've not regained, depends,

but one must be very circumspect. because many times africa you just but up pulling in the political chess board. all why the powers were that those powers are the united states of america. they will be in the countries all around shell, china, or top key. and the time is now that aspect of my smell and the fee and rippled denies that if you behave like grass, you will be eaten by books and cops. so as presumably africa is going to right now into the world stage, it has done, i'll give leave for this ukraine war. i don't know whether you read about the reports when african leaders was stopped by security on the plane in poland and so on. i i find it very candidly, but if you listen to the reports that then they monday the from ukraine or you've been portland, or different parts of the was the leaders who lead the 1 may by the south africa

city. let them a lot of them up was what to do with the content in many ways. and in my view, that in itself is indicative of the added to the of many countries in europe, america, they've been rushed and the venue grades so that one is candid. these are the steps that are being made by africa. why not treated with the seriousness that they deserved, and it is incumbent upon off for the to now recognize that the not to be treated seriously. they have to re engineer the brush in my view and i listen to the also going to be the, the what do they will not in this just take the step so i not from on on they don't to themselves. i did not see the clarity on the passion, on the confidence that they needed in order to beyond us to does that went into the

arena. they will, uh and we both. okay. and when do you that can position start? does that you must be on the ball. if you remember the ideas of the not aligned, the movement on positive they're trying to do when you had climbing room. i'll come on up in the center and people are like canoe and to at that time, then on the line, the movement was not a line, but positively neutral on spoke funny. if they is live something they said they did not like it. i want to hear from you about, well, i want to hear from you about what happened to those meetings in a 2nd, but arguably, your room about russia shortly. because your name le mamba, off to the great patrice lumber and russian rush as a university avenue university, named up to the african lead to lumber. they. they respected africa that far i'm not wrong. i taught 1st of all, remember that what you're talking about with the soviet union,

and i'm not the one who it is impressed to me any because you've named that usually advisory after patrice emily to but we also know that russia has participated as been positive and sudden areas, but definitely the annoying jobs. yeah, no, i enjoy the idea of geo political interest, which they want to pop up to 8 and it cannot be denied. so i'm not going to use this for them to sign it's i is that i ship, i'm going to speak candidly on family. i'm how i feel, and i'm not going to be paid to do to appear to live crush just simply because you're based in most. i'm no, i'm no man, oh me too much good. we're basically do by, but then going back to your mind about what happens to lead is what happens to him to as crazy. gosh, i will not, but what speak the truth as i said, planning and what happens to leave is of uh, the normal line move. and as it is today, i mean, i knew you say that the advocate piece negotiating team for ukraine could have

displayed a little bit more confidence, a little bit more backboard that you're gonna have to remind us about band doing. and so kind know in indonesia and what happened to developing will lead is that showed that kind of backbone, you know, advocate historically, i know you're going to say that this time round, hopefully they won't, will be assassinated by the c. i a let us assign, let us go back into history a little because that is the time when the was just ended. india is a game dian defenders. and there is a bible for now, was with the soviet, as a power on the united states, as a power and the leaders of liberty independent countries. us saying we don't want to be poured into the arena and we don't want to be phones into the political or just bought and then for president. so kind of indonesia, joe, a lot of manual and india just browse the 2 of us, not the come on up in the center of egypt and climbing google amount of data.

text the view that we want to play a role with the mentors. mia, a bones in this chessboard that he's being paid on these. why lead does this all visionary beside me does what p a and what they wanted? the does so and the forefront. why on don't mind every level. so kinda was under the mind model was overthrown, government i've been setting, you know, was all undermined on that. when he left office, i've been neutralized legal cause we saw the might of doing something lot onset, that was a lot of dog and justice brothers did the because in the fullness of time did much more to the soviet union. and we know what happened to him in terms of the economic, sometimes taxes of us an idea, and don is distinguished and even with the latest found themselves, you an active c, i a you, on the,

you being particularly the british. what typically the laptops of the united states of america, then that's defense, the floor is the number line, the movement did not gain the option that you'd want to gain. and be sure there was, but didn't really ask the united nations with this permanent members. also the, the, i'm, the mind is a non align movement and as we speak today, the movement really is out of the, in the history alongside the spinning wheel. and when we see the margins of bricks on countries coming together, it is then i tend to rehash, then on the line a moment, but even then not on a particular picture, you will find the countryside just china, brazil, on the india, i've been some silent competition to be the leaders on breaks and that is not

uncommon. and it is in the context that we must understand the geopolitical realities of the world. the, the, i know all the boys, the, i know good somebody tons in this game. everybody is playing with the cards on the table and we must not be cooked when by it is a nice that is where there is diplomatic speak. arguably, there's no one under those illusions. the difference would be that this time around rather than a normal line movement without nuclear weapons, don't align movement this time around if it is indeed break. so the showing i cooperation organization is that it's one with allies who are incredibly powerful with most of the world's population, but with a larger proportion of the nuclear weapons of the world as well. i just want to get onto the fact that you were talking about the, the non line movement in the 1st place. how controlled would you say the media is

in london, you capitals, power spill in rome, etc. because they media didn't carry much, really about the advocate piece but, and plans for ukraine. and they certainly hardly talk when they do sometimes mention reparations and slavery. they don't mention what you talk of as regards a, c, i a killing mass kidding. and undermining and elimination of the most charismatic leaders and movements of the developing world. you know, the lions, it does not follow to applaud the killing of the on to the i'm, this is going to line this fun dionte power was done when i talked about data pin fall as i'm talking about the conceptual west equity. and to those free on kind of the and, and i know across the united states of america and india and spoken and sometimes even in the art of god at the moment they are saying what good can come out of

africa. and that is the attitude behind even when the so the article lead has been through russia on do you play this said, let's wait and see what kind of the x and this uh, this is what has to be fine during the bank of america over the years under this idle guns is informed by the fact that they don't mean they, they've told me of the world. it is informed by the fact that they don't mean they literally directly. it is informed by the fact that they are not kids on 5th call. i missed in many of the countries um for that reason, they still order the view that they must through or they're just unable to see any of that kind of country or any of the group of african leaders is trying to do something that is a positive there beyond the mind big because they think that they are, they are find the on that. and then he's, and he is very some countries are this united, the beats and the for the best they can do is to,

of today as some kind of figure to wherever is confronting the economies under it is in the context therefore that you must see the attitude and the media is arnold got it. i'm completely not independent. if you listen to media houses. so i just made you most of a low bbc, a little all 5. and so, or these are the media is it has already on not it is one on the same. if anything is positive in africa in the night, if it is negative, it is if it is, simon, if it is, uh uh, give you call this content all injections then report it. so the maple database does nothing come come out of the continent of africa. that is good. as they used to say the bible, one good thing can come out of the service, provides a piano. remember, i'll stop you there more from the right now and lawyer involvement,

director of can use energy corruption commission after the spring, the the, the, the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with professor p alone. remember right now and lawyer and former director of can use anti corruption commission, you know, uh, professor we were talking about one about um, the arrogance of western media and western power. of course,

one big good conversation in nature a nation meet here is a will around the post rest puts you into the break summit that's coming up. now we know the boot in the isn't going to go there. do you think uh, someone like by my post i would have come under a lot of pressure as regards v i c. c, which is a quote that uh, i don't know what you think of really its a disproportionately attacks a leaders of african countries at the expense of other countries. leaders. first of all, let me say that the i c c, this packet of room was well intentioned, but the data has demonstrated in the mind, and we just conducted ourselves that he's built into something powers. i remember during the presidency of president trump t, as my just said, that if they tried to do anything against americans, then he would sanction the jobs just and therefore it is a quote that has been terminated. and the, the only bad. he actually said he had military and military attack holland,

the hague. i'm certain. so when, when do you, when you look at the court side to that i think what it is good for now is the court that should be disbanded. and on down the, in my view, it is used as a political tool against weed concrete is use very event to be against, off of the leaders and use. now, as is in the case of russia by america on the west, on congress to intimidate the president of russia, let me put this and i have no doubt in my mind the prison drum. of course, i may have ended very subtle ways to receive representations that if the president boynton exams the cost going to be interested and you can begin to imagine if president didn't want to be interested in rush into it, right. and then the install cost, okay. it would be a declination of wall and solved off with the opposite. does not want to see how. so inside this situation, prison put in may be, as i told them,

i'm going to despair you with the pain on the bus to be with not at the end of the brief meeting. but it is said that an international institutions we've created on the basis of a solid principles currently manipulated on rents themselves susceptible to manipulation, and creates an environment where countries we've job done. traditionally, the d n a dr. ohio, but it's one to choose who you are friends, the one to choose, will you and it is uh and then the south from the roof adults about democracy and about the subject of sudden is to know and as well there are supposed to be security agreements in addition to shanghai cooperation, organization commitments that are going to be signed in rush or the rush or advocate summit this week between african nations. but in the face of african government cooperation with the i m f. what does it actually mean?

i looked at the latest i am f statistics angola, 3000000000 their african countries that owe this money to the i'm have 1000000000 camera room and i'm just picking them off, you know, 13000000000 to egypt. i know ukraine has just got 10000000 from the i method african countries involving the width of poverty are owing a lot of money. south africa, 3100000000 owing to the i m f. what do you think they should default to the i am asked for if they going to have a get their country's populations out of poverty? i know this poverty in the developed world as well. but in the developing world in africa, you know, one of the things that i think it is present to my son, colorado said to 1987. that a lot of the thing that we must do a soft kind of countries is to make a decision that the money is owed to. why a mess on the bank with not being paid on the not true payable on these, what is going to cost you to the fund installment for the patient was liberty and put in an ice age. and i,

or about the i or the view that also going to be the should be bold enough to sit in on this up on medical isn't mission. the knowledge that you have seen, the friend, the belgians, the dodge, and the british, or obedient in a new home by not admit that they are committed to that trust. it is, we, uh, you need to have these say that what we now owe as loans because due to the 1st installment payments and then be going to then it goes to the issue of the modem on double payment. if they did that on the private assumption as they cannot function, all the default country, the only thing that they can threaten as these military option. but people wouldn't be something that ought to be done. but who has the coverage to best of the time? that is to put a new patient, if you apply something that is united, must something that is united so that you don't have a few people are running away. i'm saying we are not a part of it,

but that is the only way. remember that the i mass was created in 1944, and this is john body and addition was designed not meant another was not designed . 5 countries media simply grafted into the i'm a scheme and the i have this the way i look the way to be named is not a body that is a booty somebody does. they want to keep you in constant slippery. you can never on the way on the sooner african countries recognize that the safe i will be with alpha i am. if this tells you that you, a corner to me is doing well. do you want to be very wider because it means they accept or was it? and some of the money that i owed, bath what kind of countries i'm money is that if somebody says no domestically, i'm trying to be days. but for some reason, we don't want to use all the donald resources, but human nature, and we find ourselves be old and there's

a lot to do shilo as well. people can watch our program on thomas design car on our rumble channel they own though, as of this month, around $282000000.00 pounds, the, the, sorry guy, dollars became a fast so. right now, why do you think it is? i mean, obviously the, i'm have deny, they say there, but i'm institution up off from dominique strauss con. the folder managing director of the i m f f. i'm guilty of rape. and of course, christine la, god, i'm guilty of a negligence. and as to a year in prison, she didn't serve it apart from that, the, i'm as a what you're saying is completely wrong. they try and help the world war pressure is exhausted. all these african leaders have to pay, i think i've can use to get here somewhere. you know, i mean the, they're free the democracies. what are these african countries go to worry about? if they say, look, we can be spending huge motions of all federal budget on debt servicing. most of the leaders uh, started to come for

a live there on the government's some of we shop club, do crouching governments, we have corruption. these ramp and width is rampant, whereas they themselves are not beyond reproach. i'll pass it on their bodies, therefore, very easy to intimidate them by telling them if you don't pay long. if you don't, b a, b, a going clips policy. and that is why you find individuals who i position to be the should be an awful lot. the model probably a few need as well. i kind of, but when i, what was read is this the, the i am, if you would see it in the army days of people like do we have somebody out there that can escalate window even more recently people have done joseph fund remodel fully. they will just bond up to the i am if the cause that a pass on a level, they have no accounts, ice outside of the country. they did not transfer any skeletons. why does the old note depend on better for they had the more cottage,

but the majority of the leaders, we have now lots of more time to do it to do, to confront of the i m. s. but do you think the ukraine conflict is having these echoes through africa? because we saw how the american back to the tpr laughing at t gray when neutralized when extend to be able to keep that info. a few hope you ever tray a piece deal going we've seen recently, the breakthrough and the good down between ethiopia or in egypt. do you think the united states is taking its eye off the bowl to allow that is, in effect allowing africa to certain parts of african to regroup and create peace and hopes for the future. you know, there is this. busy or say that you do not trust the greeks event when the be, if the could be a truly general us on the. and i never one who assumes that the width of the country is and the united states of america is corporate sense. means well,

if anything happens that is good, it is incidental rather than something. yeah, i just meant they're taking their eye off the ball. yet they may, they know they never take the i of the boat, whatever you see them do is a doctor called if you see them moving out of something, i do think that the of the, the, the i is not the body's not the i is always the own double on they may mix something top to co changes which you think in your best interest, but the trucks and the amendment to fulfill a brand i agenda. and ultimately, they will come for you a joke, you know, a, well, that's a, that's a bit worrying when they kind of always, always when i noticed this change in can be a policy way your speaking to be from because you really can, you know, past due to the un mazda in kimani, the period like go see

a central costing on the vote on ukraine. and now, then the, so again, i have role russian environment is there was a welcome to attend. i roby on the 29th of may, emblematic of lots of african countries that are changing their views and realizing the geopolitical balance is changing. they don't have to of a washington the way they used to you. i mean, you have a military base, north of nairobi don't use their british soldiers occupying parts of your country because that is very true. and that is the problem that we have been many african countries the to many times because of the presence of this ministry basis. it is as if we are simply a box yards off from our corner knives. is because the train us so yes, they have uh boots on the ground and you have 33 and a in many ways they tend to begin to feel with your concrete admitted tiredly. they

share intelligence with your country. we do intelligence institutions. but what one is beginning to see nothing and as a sustained model, but at least at the level of rhetoric, african leaders are african country as beginning to get to 80, they to buy these added to the list of countries where they put us in a few our little school boys i'm school does and if you reason, listen recently to the south african for and administer. ponder, she's been very kind. it doesn't appear that you don't have. and you should never tried to choose friend for us on the choose interviews for us in these ukrainian, this travel over the news or shown ukrainian walls, we choose to be to be neutral. and the neutrality is informed by history. because that's critical times in the history of the independence travel, the soviet union did then was supported many african countries and those memories

uh series and um that they was pointing the african countries i can't do the power as well. now i look during those on democracy on which themselves conducted a 130 on the demo products on to really a think institutions on a systems in the african countries. so that the college comes in uh, in faces. but there's no sustained and remember is that the work is happening is that i forgot to countries as to very much divided with the e friend still controlling the a former qualities. the british also is through the institution of the commonwealth also does so the, the i'm gone or the portuguese pointless. expand on the merits of cost is the $1.00 bedroom on which the degree dates to many countries from washington d. c. and then the own i use the instrument for that particular munition and i

think the instrument that is used for donation in the military threat. the teaching of done the 8th week on the simplest dition was shipped off the close the atlantic all or india understand a few tomahawks and see how you would behave. so i forgot the countries find themselves in a situation that is very different. for example, from russia, which has a new b, which is a new be a powerful obaskey is donell, india or china, african countries run drug armies in any event which can be decimated in a few outlets, provides a piano, blah, blah, blah. thank you. thank you. that's it for the show. we'll be back on saturday with a brand new episode until then. you can give it to us. why would i social media, or if it's up sensitive in your country and had to add channel going underground tv on normal dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground. so you just have the,

the, the, the, not the protests intensify is ralph must be as waiting call event of pre as they come for virtual traditional were full to live. it seems pretty close. how and save of benjamin netanyahu government and active international terrorism. that's how russia bronze the latest ukrainians wrote an attack on most go as the way the flat