a fan or a foot fire compact? is that started? interestingly enough, or i think a 1954 when bar harbor main burn big. and it caught the attention in the presence of the united states of the time. because this is where the rich from hollywood and other quarters went to in summer and when that town burn. uh, they used all their resources to try to put it out and they didn't have enough. and they brought in uh, uh, canadians. and that was the beginning of a very long, friendly relationship where you have a now cooperation of intelligence and resources, person power, and the trade off of information. and so i think this is how we're benefiting globally, because we're now entering a new paradigm where a fire is become a global problem, not just a problem in western united states or western canada. so how did poor nations in

africa, maybe even south america deal with wild fires? what kind of firefighting forces do they have and are forced to greater risk in these regions due to a lack of funds and even infrastructure? well, it's interesting, it's kind of like a rolodex, every fire manager in every state. and every province essentially has a list of, of agencies that they can call upon in time of need. and there's somebody there on the other line. it's really quite a, an intimate relationship, but when i was in alaska, in 2015 for that record breaking fire season, the alaskans were calling firefighters from alberta to come in and help. and it was just simply getting on the phone saying, can you get here? and we have now a process in place where you really don't, you know, these firefighters aren't stopped at the border and all of their, their, their equipment has to be checked by customs. they're just fine scratch,

they can move very, very quickly across the borders and overtime to prove that, if it proved not enough uh, that we just didn't have enough firefighters in north america to be to deal with the emerging paradigm. so we started calling firefighters from australia and new zealand, mexico of south africa, and other countries in the world. because we simply do not have enough people on the ground that are available to deal with this situation, but is quickly getting out of control. so in north america, we are dealing with intense drought and shorter winters earlier springs, lightning strikes, and even hotter summers. so what conditions on the ground are these creating an are these similar to conditions and australia, europe, and south africa? well, you just simply have to look at it as a chemical reaction. uh and everybody who started the, you know, a camp fire on

a hike or a camping trip. no. is that? do you have really have to get the driest kindling in there to get things going and what we have now because things are so hot and dry, we just have this kindling in all forms be of grass or be of twigs or be really old trees or dead trees that are just ready to burn. and there's a simple equation that a lot of of weather scientists talk about is that uh, with every one degree increase in temperature. you have about 10 percent more light, more lightning strikes and lightning, at least on the canadian side of the border is the biggest cause of foyer fire. on the other side, it's humans, but still lightning is a big factor. and so we just have a much more volatile situation that is evolving here and i've seen situations have been told of situations where even the, the don't draft of

a helicopter carrying a water bucket can actually spread a fire more quickly if uh then uh, dropping the bucket of water and that's how ball a tile. things have gotten some of our force. wow, thank you so much, edward, a strategic and now after the break, we're going to continue this discussion and look at the impact climate change is having on a global wildfires. and if one region is more prone, danielle the, there is no us strategic national security interest and you created all, i would say there was no interest us interest in ukraine. whereas is there any vital interest for the russian federation that you pre be restored to a neutral buffer state uh, separated from uh, from nato countries. the

the welcome back. we are going to continue our discussion about the future use of controlled burns all to prevent wild fires with our guest, edward strategic. here's a rider fellow queen's institute for energy and environmental policy school policy studies at the queen's university in kingston. canada is also author firestorm. how wildfire will shape our future. thanks for staying with us. you know, i wanna start off about your book because in firestorm, how wildfires will shape our future. you actually argue there is too much fuel on the ground to many people and assets to protect and there's no plan in place to

deal with these changes. so what's been happening to the way people live near forest area is the big cause for concern is we have an aging population, you know, that doesn't like to live in, you know, congested cities. and they, you know, work. i'm is an issue where, you know, fresh air is an issue and so they're moving into these forest and environments. we've seen that in california. we see it in british columbia and alberta, and it's kind of a paradise for them. but the problem is, is that many of them are building houses, you know, out of logs, or would you know, cedar decks, cedar shapes, shingles, planting, ornamental cedars around their house. and all of this is highly combustible. so when a fire tears through, it doesn't even have to come all that close. you can have a fire burning, say 3 miles away. and if the window strong enough, it can blow embers on top of that. cedar shake shingle roof and started to fire.

and then once the fire gets going, if you knows it sends the embers to the next dose of the next steps and suddenly you have an entire kind of acreage neighborhood on fire. we do have on both sides of the board are these kind of fires smart programs that are in place where you know or are teaching people to be more how to be more resilient to fire. and i think one of the dangers associated with some of these programs is that it has, it's very good in the sense is that it is making these, these places more resilient. but on the other hand, it's also making people feel confident enough that a fire comes through. they can stay in defense and stay and defend is tricky when you have a really, really hot intensifier coming in. because basically there's really, there's nothing that you can do. and i give you the example of a,

pyro c b which is a fire that can star that, that you know, that where you have a blue sky day and you have a fire burning. and it creates so much energy that it actually creates its own thunderstorm along with lightning and, and so you can shoot lightning up to 20 miles in advance of that fire and causing a cluster of flyers wherever the lightning may strike. um, these are kind of like the day after tomorrow is the real scenes that were now beginning to see more often in the forest. and you know, a couple in their sixties or seventies just really doesn't stand much of a chance of being able to defend or something like that. coming towards them. i've seen these uh, these walls of fire and smoke coming in, you know, being pushed by when and they really are popular elliptic there's, you know, firefighters move out of the way that helicopters get as far away as possible

because they can basically just stuck them out of the other the are there, they are very much like volcanoes, moderate size volcanoes. that's how much energy that they have. also, in your book, you've talked to scientist, firefighters, resource managers who are making radical radically different recommendations about how to manage wild fires on the future. what are some of their approaches so that we and the wilder inhabitants can continue to 1st flourish? well, i think there's a number of things this, the, that, that we're seeing now we're seeing better predictive services meeting that we have now. some fire, whether scientists who were able to better understand where fire is more likely to start so that you can move the resources your firefighters on the ground, your water bombers, and your helicopters into place where they can get on top of the fire. very quickly . we're having also, as we discussed earlier, more control control burns in those areas that are strongly vulnerable. i think

that one of the things that we're overlooking and we're not doing enough, is that uh, identifying fire refuse. yeah. those places that may be in the shadows of the mountains wetlands of that are likely not to burn that we shouldn't be protecting. one of the things that every firefighter will admit, but will not say publicly, is that once a fire gets to a certain size, there's basically nothing they can do to put it out. they can maybe slow it down, they can move it in another direction to keep some people out of harm's way, but putting it out on a really hot summer day or in one that has when it's really impossible. and the only thing that's really going to stop it, they're basically 2 things. is our big down for that last for 2 or 3 days or a wetlands. this is something that we don't appreciate is that wetlands are

a natural fire stop once a fire bucks up against a web land. it basically slows down, simmers and puts itself out. the problem in north america is that we've dreamed about 60 percent of our wetlands for a variety of purposes for agricultural purposes to make way for cities. we've also done that for public health reasons. because at one time we believe that wetlands were the cause of a lot of diseases such as swamp fever. if you're old enough to remember, that used to be a thing. and so we've kind of demonized these wetlands to our peril because we just don't have those natural stops on the landscape anymore. they're one of the great examples of this is that the, the horse river fire and the oil sands town. a fort mcmurray that burned in 2016 and costs evacuation of 88000 people at the very last minute. as of the fire

entered town of those firefighters thought that there was this whitland that was identified on the map. so it was going to slow down, give them enough time to get the bombers on top of it, the firefighters on top of it stop. when the fire got to that web land get accelerated rather than slow down and they couldn't figure it out until they realize from another department, the forestry department that they had actually drained that whitland 10 years earlier. and pin plant isn't experimental for us. so instead of having water there to stop the fire, they had more trees to burn. so the fire just took off and just startled everybody . and that was one of the reasons why that fire got so would have control. wow, thank you, edward for joining us and giving us some insight into this very important subject. you know, control burns, are nothing new, as nature has been doing its own version since the beginning of time with

a spark from a simple lightning strike. however, as mankind continues to expand its imprint on the earth, nature's course can sometimes invoke more chaos in good control and burns require careful, planning, expertise, and coordination with local authorities to ensure safety and minimize the risk they should be conducted under specific weather conditions. and with appropriate fire management techniques all to prevent the fire from getting out of control. additionally controlled burns may not be suitable or necessary and all eco systems and their implementation should consider the unique characteristics of each region around the globe, the sky. now here's, and this has been your 360 view of the news affecting you for watching the

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