smoke was not great, especially during the very small the days of coal burning plants back them. and so the fresh air of north america is really welcome. and when your opinions arrived and found the indigenous people were burning in the spring and fall in places even like virginia in the 1600s, they put a stop to it and back the they took some of them to court. eventually we kicked them all out of the national park such as yellowstone, and use somebody in the states and in banf and jasper and canada, to prevent them from burning and one to read and the tory, this scene, and writing mountain national park. as recently as 1939, when that part was established, they kicked out the indigenous people. they actually walk the mode and to make sure that they didn't come back, they actually burned down their cabinets to turn them from doing that again.

and that opposition continues to this day that we saved in business communities in the tourist industry that do not like to have burned out for us or personally, birthdate for us. they think that it's unattractive for tours. uh, so don't like the idea of having smoke prevail on, you know, a really nice, sunny day and i'm afraid as well as that we've had a number of control burns that have got out of control over the years. it's still risky proposition. probably the most famous notorious is the, the, the fire in new mexico. that was a control burn. that was started by the us for service and got out of control. and over ran the los alamos nuclear weapons site and causing the evacuation of that entire or community and that station there. so we still have risks

associated with this. and one of the big problems is we have so many people on the landscape that are in harm's way, but it is really, really difficult to, to do control burned outside of a national park. you know, there seems something very odd about burning down forest all in order to protect forest. some conservation was actually believe that it's a wrong to do control to burning because they believe you're destroying nature. how do you respond to them? well, the response is, is a complicated one. now if you look at say the burial forrest of uh, most of canada, parts of michigan, the great lake states of those trees you know, are spruce and pine. and the only way they can really regenerate to release the cohens from or the seats from their cohen's is by heat, birds and squirrels can do it, but really not effectively enough to help re generation. and so essentially these

trees have involved to have an intimate relationship with the, with fire. and so fire actually is the best way of allowing these for us to regenerate. now in the american west where you have to have trees that are bit more resilient to fire, they're actually pretty, you know, not as the relationship is a bit of a different one. they are very, very sick bark. uh so you can actually burn that forest and the trees will survive. those big giants can survive because the fire can not get through that fit bark. but it does actually uh, regenerate the force, the small brushes, what's the, what's the with or with that or on the ground. now, the important thing as well as i think i'll give you an example here that there was

a study done a while back. and i was involved in a that was an observer. i went out several times with the scientist, a southern grizzly bears in the national parks, in western canada. some of those barriers are we share with montana and what they couldn't figure out was why the barriers and the national parks tend to be sooner and smaller than the bears outside of national parks. and then they realize that the answer was that the areas outside the national parks were disturbed more by fire than within the national parks. because the national parts, we suppress fires for so long and there. and what happened was that you had this canopy that shaded out all of the root vegetables and all of the berries that the bears depended on. and so that was why the bears outside the park tended to do better. although their population didn't grow was because they didn't have the

protection, they had the national park. so it was kind of a trade off. they had more food, but they're more likely to be poached or hit by a truck. or, you know, all the, all of the safeguards that we have in the national park, but you don't have outside of the national park. and that's one of the reasons why national parks and yellowstone, and yosemite, and in glacier national park, banff and jasper are doing control, burns. one of the reasons is that they're trying to encourage the growth of those root vegetables and berries that so many animals depend on. so is there a universal policy regarding controlled burning globally? now there's a universal body, but there's a lot of trading of information between the fire organizations in europe and north america. here in north america, we have what we call a fam or for fire compact. is that started? interestingly enough, or i think in 1954 when bar remains bern,

big and it caught the attention needs of the present to the united states of the time. because this is where the rich from hollywood and other quarters went to in summer. and when the town burn, uh, they used all their resources to try to put it out and they didn't have enough. and they brought in the canadians. and that was the beginning of a very long, friendly relationship where you have a now cooperation of intelligence and resources, person power, and the trade off of information. and so i think this is how we're benefiting globally, because we are now entering a new paradigm where a fire is become a global problem, not just a problem in western united states or western county. so how did poor nations in africa, maybe even south america deal with wild fires? what kind of firefighting forces do they have and are forced to greater risk in these regions due to a lack of funds and even infrastructure?

well, it's interesting, it's kind of like a rolodex, every fire manager in every state. and every province essentially has a list of, of agencies that they can call upon in time of need. and there's somebody there on the other line. it's really quite a, an intimate relationship when i was in alaska, in 2015 for that record breaking fire season. the alaskans were calling firefighters from alberta to come in and help and it was just simply getting on the phone saying, can you get here? and we have now a process in place where you really don't, you know, these firefighters aren't stopped at the border and all of their, their, their equipment has to be checked by customs. they're just fast track. they can move very, very quickly across borders. and overtime to prove that, it proved not enough uh, that we just didn't have enough firefighters in north america to be to deal with

the emerging paradigm. so we started calling firefighters from australia and new zealand, mexico, south africa, and other countries in the world. because we simply do not have enough people on the ground that are available to deal with this situation that is quickly getting out of control. so in north america, we are dealing with intense drought and shorter winters earlier springs, lightning strikes and even hotter summers. so what conditions on the ground are these creating an are these similar to conditions and australia, europe, and south africa? well, you just simply have to look at it as a chemical reaction. and everybody who's started the, you know, a camp fire on a hike or a camping trip noses that you have really have to get the druggist kindling in there to get things going. and what we have now, because things are so hot and dry,

we just have this kindling in all forms via the grass, or be at twiggs, or be a really old trees or dead trees that are just ready to burn. and there's a simple equation that uh, a lot of uh, of weather scientists talk about is that uh, with every one degree increase in temperature, you have about 10 percent more light, more lightning strikes and lightning, at least on the canadian side of the border is the biggest cause of foyer fire on the other side, it's humans of a still lightning is a big factor. and so we just have a much more volatile situation. that is evolving here and i've seen situations have been told situations where even the, the down draft of a helicopter carrying the water bucket can actually a spread of fire more quickly if of then uh, dropping the bucket of water. and that's how volatile things have gotten some of

our force. wow, thank you so much, edward, strategic. and now after the break, we're going to continue this discussion and look at the impact climate change is having on a global wildfires. and if one region is more prone, danielle the

welcome back. we're going to continue our discussion about the future use of controlled burns all to prevent wild fires with our guest, edward strategic. he's a rider fellow queen's institute for energy and environmental policy school policy studies at the queen's university in kingston. canada is also author firestorm. how wildfire will shape our future. thanks for staying with us. you'll wanna start off about your book because in firestorm, how wildfires will shape our future. you actually argue there is too much fuel on the ground to many people and assets to protect and there's no plan in place to deal with these changes. so what's been happening to the way people live near forest area is the big cause for concern is we have an aging population, you know, that doesn't like to live in, you know, congested cities. and you know where crime is an issue. we're bringing no fresh air

is an issue and so they're moving into these for the environments we've seen is in california. we see it in british columbia and alberta and it's kind of a paradise for them. but the problem is that many of them are building houses, you know, out of logs, or would you know, cedar decks, cedar shapes, shingles planting or mental cedars around their house. and all of this is highly combustible. so when a fire tears through it doesn't even have to come all that close. you can have a fire burning, say 3 miles away. and if the window strong enough, it can blow embers on top of that seat or shake shingle roof and started to fire. and then once the fire gets going, if you knows it sends the embers to the next dose of the next dose, and suddenly you have an entire kind of acreage neighborhood on fire. we

do have on both sides of the board are these kind of fires smart programs that are in place where you know or are teaching people to be more or how to be more resilient to fire. and i think one of the dangers associated with some of these programs is that it has, it's very good in the sense is that it is making these, these places more resilient. but on the other hand, it's also making people feel confident enough that a fire comes through. they can stay in defense and stay and defend is tricky when you have a really, really hot intensifier coming in. because basically there's really, there's nothing that you can do. and i give you the example of, of a pyro, c b which has a fire that can star that, that you know, that where you have a blue sky day and you have a fire burning. and it creates so much energy that it actually creates its own

vendor store along with lightning. and it can shoot lightning a 20 miles in advance of that fire us. and it causes that cluster of fires wherever the lightning may strike. uh, these are kind of like the day after tomorrow is the real scenes that were now beginning to see more often in the forest. and you know, a couple in their sixties or seventies just really doesn't stand much of a chance of being able to defend or something like that. coming towards them. i've seen these uh, these walls of fire and smoke coming in, you know, being pushed by when and they really are popular elliptic there's, you know, the firefighters move out of the way that helicopters get as far away as possible because they can basically just stuck them out of the other the are there, they are very much like volcanoes, moderate size volcanoes. that's how much energy that they have. also in your book, you've talked to scientist, firefighters, resource managers who are making radical radically different recommendations about

how to manage wild fires on the future. what are some of their approaches so that we and the wilder inhabitants can continue to 1st flourish? well, i think there's a number of things this, the, that, that we're seeing now we're seeing better predictive services meeting that we have now for some fire, whether scientists who were able to better understand where a fire is more likely to start so that you can move the resources your firefighters on the ground, your water bombers and your helicopters into place where they can get on top of the fire, very quickly. we're having also, as we discussed earlier, more control control burns in those areas that are extremely vulnerable. i think that one of the things that we're overlooking or not doing enough is that uh, identifying fire refuse. yeah. those places that may be in the shadows of the

mountains wetlands that are likely not to burn, that we shouldn't be protecting. one of the things that every firefighter will admit, but will not say publicly is, is that once a fire gets to a certain size, there's basically nothing they can do to put it up. they can maybe slow it down, they can move it in another direction to keep some people out of harm's way, but putting it out on a really hot summer day or in one that has when it's really impossible. and the only thing that's really going to stop it, they're basically 2 things. is our big down for that last for 2 or 3 days, or a wetlands. this is something that we don't appreciate is that wetlands are natural fighters stop once a fire butts up against a web land. it basically slows down, simmers and puts itself out. the problem in north america is that we've dreamed

about 60 percent of our web lands for a variety of purposes for agricultural purposes to make way for cities. we've also done it for public health reasons. because at one time we believe that wetlands were the cause of a lot of diseases such as swamped fever. if you're old enough to remember, that used to be a thing. and so we've kind of demonized these wetlands to our pair up because we just don't have those natural stops on the landscape anymore. and one of the great examples of this is that the, the horse river fire and the oil sands town, a fort mcmurray that burned in 2016 and costs evacuation of 88000 people at the very last minute. as of the fire entered town of those firefighters thought that there was this whitland that was identified on the maps that was going to slow down, give them enough time to get the bombers on top of it,

the firefighters on top of it. but when the fire got to that, with land get accelerated rather than slow down and they couldn't figure it out until they realized from another department forestry department that they had actually drain that whitland 10 years earlier. and pin plant isn't experimental for us. so instead of having water there to stop the fire, they had more trees to burn. so the fire just took off and just started with everybody. and that was one of the reasons why that fire got so would have control . wow, thank you, edward for joining us and giving us some insight into this very important subject. you know, control burns, are nothing new, as nature has been doing its own version since the beginning of time with a spark from a simple lightning strike. however, as mankind continues to expand its imprint on the earth, nature's course can sometimes invoke more chaos in good control and burns require

careful planning expertise in coordination with local authorities to ensure safety and minimize the risk they should be conducted under specific weather conditions. and with appropriate to fire management techniques all to prevent the fire from getting out of control. additionally controlled burns may not be suitable or necessary and all eco systems and their implementation should consider the unique characteristics of each region around the globe, the sky. now here's, and this has been your 360 view of the news affecting you for watching the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the, the, we report from the front lines and then the guns squared public as russian troops these, the initiative on push back ukrainian forces. and that had to be russia, africa summit, in some pages. we sit down with the son of tons and the supposed presidents who is helping push back west in neo colonialism. the only realistic way in which i think applicants can develop themselves is to come together as

a continent to put together the resources and not become the agents of the country. surprises enjoy. find in families scandals raise the issue of impeachment that's according to the us house. feature as another one. so by then corruption saga and fold the a very well welcome. this is on the international with a very late as well news update to skip to happy with us to send i don't. yeah, it's kind of come on. the heavy ukrainian fine with shelling reported more than 50 times in the past 24 hours using western supplied weapons with us as russian troops make advances on the battle. ground senior corresponded more gas, the reports from the front lines and the guns for public. the.

the music is for us to go out here. it is a dangerous distraction. pension is preferable, tension keeps your shop near the wood, driving towards the front will stop and tell a command post to find out what's up with the rainfall bench, a shelley, and whether we can move to then get you to all forward positions. other than that, we're enjoying the weather. the, let's do a mess with him with that shell hoble. how's the weather? do you copy over the home? you go to that election, all the and out. the final stretch, the most dangerous is on foot. the shilling goes loud. this is, i deal with those heavy rain through the night.

thoughts often enough, but the, it's a blessing. it is an incoming shell for job destination in the moment for a few sentences because it's with very itself, with the destination side strapped to the optimal $160.00 counted bush out. the impact run, run, run the come on. come on. we arrive to a flurry. of activity and shelly out of mind that i don't mind that i don't mind that the radio chess, it is incessant tension on the h the whole settlement and that's yeah.

the whole above the above the doesn't generate the shape to guard against the context of the heavier you can test. the position with just a few weeks ago was was file for the front fly this. he's no longer going through the force under here. the intensity big now. troops of the atm tank regiment in the middle of an assault on the ukranian position. as we watch one russian soldier dodges 3 grenades in as many minutes. it is not a 553 russian troops versus 10 ukrainians with more arriving. yeah, the best 3 out of who, you know, most of what affiliated you did to me, you're not sure west coastal, i'm essentially what the lady on that side you know,

don't like that, but the united is part of the united is on the, with the russian troops of pulled back a mass of ukrainian soldiers congregates together. it is a fatal mistake. yeah, yeah. a 152 millimeters, shell screams in impacting just meters from the crowded soldiers. many undoubtedly hate with shrapnel. they begin to flee, carrying but of the wounded with them. others are left behind dead in india, the like and not the shell hits. they break, leaving the injured come raid the voice. and so i, you go to yes, 8 of them ran. they have a band and their did. and then richards, some of them are wounded as one who can fairly crawl. uh, the rest are on the move. now we can see them running the new more. is it

a relative? lovely settles. the russian assault team were tons, 2 of them are injured. you are very grateful for holding up so well. i oh, blinking out. do you want to sleep? remember, one room don't full of sleep. got any kids, 2 or 3 of them. wow. now repeat off to me, kids a was leaving for come on, said the ease of volunteer medic, he has a way with his patients and his ask for the yukon, lots of holly to worry. if you panics, then he could freak out. so he shouldn't look at the wins and stuff like that. tell him anything to distract him. make him last chat about something. make him think about other things. when he talks, that's good. if he can answer, that's great. the wounded are evacuated in

the vehicle. in the meantime, magazines are reloaded. i mean the issue is poor theme. in less than an hour. a fresh sold spot to be sent in to claim the trench along with all the bodies in it. for a gas t of a t, for them came in, i looked on screech of the of the ukraine cornflakes, to escalate. the west is on thing even more fuel to the file with another $400000000.00 in the military aid, published by us officials at the expense of american tax payers. about smell, drawing increasing criticism on the home front as unties. it explains. in the united states has plenty to send $400000000.00 in military a to ukraine. now the package includes a variety of munitions for address air defense systems, as well as the civilians for the drones. but overall,

the united states has spent over $41000000000.00 on ukraine since the beginning of the costly and it seems like it is very much dedicated to see a ukraine when they're even planning to send cluster munitions. some western analysts have said that this conflict for the united states, the negatives of this conflict outweigh the positives. and they've said that what's best for the united states is to open up for dialogue. but let's take a little look at the negatives right now. so they've mentioned a potential nuclear risk, as well as an escalation of direct conflict between nato and russia. and as the us general mark, milly has even listed to avoid a russia and nato war as a top priority for the united states. because that would essentially mean that the us would be in hot water as with a nuclear power. now, a lot of conflict causes other difficulties for us interest. one of them being spending more money when it comes to ukraine to make it return to its economic

sustainability as well as this, the united states has an interest in stable energy markets. the longer this conflict goes on, the more pressure comes on food prices, but also global economic trends affects the united states greatly. uh, the united states economies to be precise. and so as long conflict would mean that the global economic growth would slow down. if this conflict goes on even longer, that would mean that the united states global priorities would essentially be suppressed and the conflict would absorb its military resources and its energy on a list have also mentioned the bilateral relations between russia and the united states. and they have said that it is very much unlikely for them to get any better if the conflict can see use. they've also mentioned the prospect. so negotiate a follow on to the new start treaty, which is set to expire in 2026. these products prospects will remain weak because

for the united states and the european union of could be in the ukrainian state, economically. solvent will multiply over time as conflicts, inhibits investment and production beyond the potential for russian gains and the economy consequences for ukraine, europe, and the world. a long war would also have consequences for u. s. foreign policy. the ability to focus on it's all the global priorities, particularly competition was china will remain constrained, as long as the words absorb and senior policy makers time and us military sources. we have the democratic presidential candidate, robert f. kennedy, who has said that this is no longer about humanitarian aid for the united states, but instead, the united states has turned this into a proxy war with russia. we have neglected many, many opportunities to settle this war peacefully. the way that we haven't conducted the war is bad for the grant. it'd be is terrible for the granting people. even among the current administration bite and administration,