shells on one of us here. we are so grateful for your time. and so just taking time with us today. thank you very much for joining us here. i wanted to ask you 1st and foremost, of course, as the africa summit with russia here in st. petersburg, but i'm very glad the south africa, of course, is being represented here. but why, what are your expectations for this summer? what's the mission of south africa for this? well, i suppose that there are many strands to the expectation, especially it has to continue the relationship that has been built up over many years between africa and russia. so very important relationship for us, particularly south africa, given the role that the people of russia played. you know, struggle for freedom. so it's a, you know, relationship a brother and sister of comrades and friend. it is at least to continue that. then the 2nd would be to continue to establish strong bones

in advancing the development goals of the african continent. and to ensure that the commitment that russia has both illustrative and expressed over many is continues to be given practically fact by the programs that we agree together and the actual execution. then the 3rd strand is of course people to people exchanges. we share much of an interest in the creative offs in history, in a range of cool policy areas, security trade. so really looking at quite a wide spectrum of areas of partnership is, is really the, the rationale for our presence and perhaps fulton most important. and i'm really

glad that prison putin has agreed to this is to continue the discussions. we big john earlier this yet a bundled africa playing a role in a c king, a peaceful outcome to the current conflict between russia and ukraine. so i would anticipate that our leaders will use the presence here in saint petersburg to continue that early discussion. which at the 1st flush was really to start talking between africa, russia, africa, and ukraine. and hopefully now to start talking about next stages minister, how did that go when the african delegation went to key of with the african piece initiative? as i understand the leadership and key of washington entirely up to mistake. but i,

but i, i wasn't that i wasn't on the ground, but i know the african delegation pitch this piece proposal for the competing ukraine. what, what, what was the reactions, what can you tell us? well, i think the lines of communication open with both lead us both lead as a strong lead the side is take you to is just ukraine. that was tough. i think present future those tough as well. but which was very positive was the reception that the african leaders received and an openness to listening to what they're presenting. and as i say at this particular summit, a readiness to continue that discussion. and that's really important because remember that we have a 1st, a group of leaders who have this access to both need to ship of ukraine as well. as of russia efforts have created such a macbook feel facility. they could only speak to one and not be of us. right. so i

think africa is in a unique position to play a very important role. i think it has an a very unique position that especially with this budgeting, multi po, wells as well i've, i've spoken to various people, the heads of state from africa who have talked about the united nation. so it needs to be referral. absolutely. it's a bit outdated, perhaps these days of african countries. it's only fair that they get equal representation at the united nations and they're all calls for for the un to be reformed. um, what do you think is it that the african nations and particularly south africa can bring to the table at the un, for example, when it comes to balancing this multi polar world? and i'm giving africa it's, it's fast place on the stage. what can your confident do you think bring to the un and perhaps suggest for some sort of renovation that in new york, as you would know, south africa went through a very terrible and towards the time of a pop date. we were oppressed by

a minority or pressing a majority. we waged that he really struggle against might. and so we have experience of dealing with unfitness and much of the world actually support to the apartment state for a very long time. and it was very few friends who stood with us as we ways this targeted battle. so i think our experience of oppression makes us a very good candidate for understanding the meaning of freedom for promoting democracy in its full meaning and for supporting representative as see a part of the political definition that we'd give to ourselves. the sub africans is unity and diversity. this means we reject racism and all forms of prejudice. and i think we should bring that into the multi lateral stage when we speak of unites as

cons, united nations security council reform. what we're speaking of is great to representation, democratic processes, the security calls to the sale of the world. because we have so much conflict all over the world. so it means that mechanism needs to be re for so that we can and show peace and security. we believe that the united nations remains the premier multi lateral institution and we would like to see any of that attempt to pull the global multi lateral party, which we'd like to seize, reform and strengthening of the you. and from time to time, the united nations has been used for political it's a, it's been. busy the weapon by some against i was we have to end that. and i think having a diversity in its structure, mechanisms allowing for democratic process. so for example,

suddenly in the context of this conflict between new creighton and russia, the, the general assembly has been given a sort of deciding a role. but in no, it doesn't have that role. so i hope the changes of that nature will be continued into the future to give a real meaning to the general assembly and not to have this notion that there are 15 countries that are able to determine the fate of the world. so that is what we, we hopeful there assigns, indeed, as he said, that the world institutions are up and that, that we may be seeing a global re making, you know, of a month to actual institutions and processes. i hope that will happen. and i think that for tunes must not miss this moment because it's probably once in

a lifetime. and if we miss it, i'm not sure the opportunity will come very soon. uh won't small. the word pressure that has come up and it's conversations. so it has been some people, for example, some top officials and most of their did say that some african state leaders have received pressure from southern professional partners in the west. not to attend this russia africa summit here in st. petersburg. i don't know if any of that's true, but i have read the reports of this. i'm, as how south africa receives will be under any pressure from southern professional partners not not to attend this summit or any of your neighboring countries that they find themselves under any, any pressure not to attend the summit here in st. petersburg. you know, so that for cause a country that doesn't accept being pressured by anyone. so i think a friends have learned over time that they need to be raw, that your dishes with us. so no, there's not been any such approach. and of course,

should it ever occur? i'd make it absolutely public. so i think when we speak of, you know, developing a backbone, we each have spines and it must be all spine that is strong. so i think it's this time that all continent realize that it has the possibility of being an extremely powerful parts of the world. and we need to be formally in control of our own capabilities, our resources, and we should manage them to the interest of the african continent and not have this notion that we owe someone something because that's the neo colonial ideal. so i think we need to begin to understand our own power and to use it to good effect flatfoot. when you say that africa should be in charge

of its sovereignty should be in charge of its infrastructure. it's mineral resources, for example, who is in charge of that now is it, is it not africa? so range of forces. i think there are private sector companies that are in the countries that abuse the results of africa. this is well known as recorded, can speak to intelligence sources, africa exports, it's mineral resources rule. it doesn't revolve, refine on the continent and we have the african continental free trade area agreement, which seeks to increase intra efforts in trade. but in terms of industrialization, very few african countries are at the level that they are significantly productive in manufacturing tubs. this most trains. so, i mean, i think it's well understood that even those who claim to be friends have really exploited the results of the continent. and, you know,

colonialism was about mineral resources was about extraction, but to no one, no oppressor will change the situation of oppression. it is you who are oppressed, who must change it. so i think we need to develop a different relationship with our resources, manage the myself, develop the ability to be innovative, use partnership such as a partnership with you, or the united states or russia for all interest and not the interest of others. meantime, you have countries like china that's been investing in infrastructure in africa, whether it's a rhodes or schools or clinics, hospitals, electricity is understand. russia has been investing in nuclear energy across the continent, i believe inside up in egypt. there are several now nuclear facilities in that final stages of china and russia investing in,

in this way in africa. can it be said that our professional populace in europe or the united states are also investing in the same kind of, perhaps humanitarian aspect as, as some of these other eastern partners might be? i've been very a category in the statements of made previously that one of the features of our own political practice is we seek to be non aligned. so we don't attach to a particular country because that's very dangerous. we had the, during what was called the cold war, and as africa we suffered immensely from being seen to be attached to the west or elsewhere. and so i have been extremely judicious and careful about asserting independence. it's very, very important. china is a very good friend to us as of africa and to the african continent. i can see the change in infrastructure in several countries across the continent. but i still

know as an african, who is honest and realizes that we know yet we all. and i think that the element of change that must go to is prop, poke control of our results is ensuring value edition is ensuring we do not tech support rule. and by backside you add that at very high prices, ensuring we value ad and sell as goods. so we need to change the frequent condition and i have no fear about saying we change is who ever the friend is. and this is very important because my interest is on the continent is people and whoever seeks to exploit to us and to diminish our ability, whoever they be, whether they claim to be friend or not. we must deal with them for sale, russia,

india, china, south africa, and maybe 40 ortho countries minister looking to join the bricks. strategic partnership is strategic alliance. that is a, it's growing legs faster than many people even imagine over the over recent years. bricks was a nice idea that they, the um, the a for an investment, the infrastructure bank, for example, you know, the new development bank as well. the brookside, it was a great idea. and then it kind of went a bit quiet for a few years old. perhaps a bit behind the scenes, but now look what's happening to breaks minister pandora i. every week there is a new development with the brick family more and more countries looking to join it . this is, this isn't, it's almost like a new front line of being a pioneer. i think, as china said, when, when is region thing with most go a few months ago, we are witnessing the biggest changes in a 100 years. and russia and china a driving these changes. now that's what he said,

but look at the breaks minister. oh, this, this coagulation of very strategic countries around the world. whether it in all these countries, what a joint, you know, saudi arabia wants to join, for example, energy rich nations, want to join nations representing the labor workforce is of the world with a joint nations representing the most geostrategic courts want to join minister pendle. what does bricks mean today for this? well, that's being so set with a, a western hedge. i'm on a now we're looking at what, what is this a southern southern growth? and this is multi polarity. what benefit of what is going on with breaks? it's a big part of you and your country is whether she we're discussing expansion, which is very exciting. but i think really well done to break something new development bank. it's a bank that is working. we have very positive rating uh, in world of financial rates in terms of and we've made significant contributions to

infrastructure investment and support in the post cobra data to all the brakes member states. and what is fantastic. we've grown from the $5.00 to $3.00 additional members, so in mount 8 and my anticipation is more, we'll join the bank as more members come on. but of course, the decision of expansion is not mine. it will be the heads of states in august who will determine we've done our work as the foreign ministers and have developed a k, a set of guiding principles, which we think will assist our leaders as they make a decision. but why, why do people want to be positive? breaks brooks is a fresh, fresh for is progressive in ideals is seeks to 1st for so peace, security and development. we not standing against anyone with not sending for anybody. we work for the good of the world, then i think you need a buddy of that nature. so everybody is interested in briggs because they can see

something different is happening. we're not seeking to weaponized the oceans. we're not seeking to weaponized before us. we're not seeking to weaponized climate change . we want to team concepts to address key development issues. and i think that is, that is the attraction that brooks has for so many countries. i'm actually spending a lot of my time having to reply to countries that want to know when i can only imagine the interest is growing by that day. like like i said, minutes to every week. that's a new development with, with the bricks, family. and there's so many thousands of countries looking to join. i have to ask you this um, professionally and personally, i find it fascinating story. the bridge summit is in august and there's an awful lot of tools as an awful lot of tools and i don't want to get ahead of myself. that is an awful lot of talk about potential breaks current. see a commodity about currency or gold back currency, not personally, but my, my,

my opinion is things like this. take an awful lot of time. an awful lot of time. if you look at the european union, how many countries have to settle on a year or for example, and these big disparities, but between the smaller economies and bigger economies, it's complicated. but some people are talking about, the brakes are 5 college. these are the red mean be the re out of the ruby and so forth. and a lot of people out there a hopeful for an announcement about this possible new currency at the summit in august. is that anything minister you can tell us? well understand the president until the new development back is going to address the lead is on this very subject. and we hope she'll give us some sense of what the future looks like. i do think that we need to have greater fitness in world trade. and we need to ensure getting that financial assistance and institutions. i'm not putting that to sized to

a level that they become a battery. yeah. a to trait. so having greater diversity is extremely important, because once you attach to one car and c o one system, you then become somewhat of a hostage. and that's what we've go to and we have to have fed trade, proper systems, financial security. but you can be tied to one, and the moment is probably now to consider alternatives. so i'm hoping that we'll get direction from the brick summit. but i believe this is something that is not the expertise of ministers of foreign affairs. that's why we rely on the president of the bank, and eventually the finance ministers of breaks to give us a sense of what is possible. but as i said, given the, when in the world today,

the moment for changes now the movement to considering you is now, i'm just gonna ask you, okay, yes, there are there as well when in the world today, i get that there are hope, hope sponsoring conflict zions but, but why, why is now such a good time for change? do you think minister? well, i think of, for the 1st time, the hostility between nations and between powerful forces the world has come out into the open the trade war between these types of states and try not to very big hours in, in the world, is out in the open. uh, the brochure ukraine conflict, the role of nature within it. so sudden the very powerful elements of facing each other. and we're all going to have to find on says in that context and the answers i know going to be what we know the answers have to be a refresh in my humble opinion. there's so much movement in the world today when

you talk about the brakes. the shanghai cooperation organization, the the as see on the global south, of course, the african continent. some people refer to these groups as a di, dollarization coalition. then moving away from the american donna now, yes, it's being the reserve currency essentially, since the great patrick will in the 2nd world war, but countries all diversifying away from the dollar. they're increasing trade in national currencies. it's almost like every week minnesota, we have a new development with new countries co, what coagulating together to form this d, tolliver's action coalition. why is this happening and why now? well, i think part of it is that this, this sense, as i said, of being held hostage and a desire to be free from such a feeling. i know to so you mentioned all the regions, but you don't mentioned africa. and it's very,

very important that you do factors in cuz we are incredibly important part of the world. and of course, we hold those important mineral resources which all such significance to ongoing was development. so don't fact africa out it's, it's critical that you don't never been as i do feel that one has to be judicious or careful about having too many organizations. because then you lay the basis for conflict rather than full cooperation. so i think a point would have to come with these various organizations actually speak to we talk about a convergence and how that is arrived that. and i believe brooks might be a very important vehicle for, for such a convergence. and it's exactly what i want to say. for example, like when i,

when i say the global south, i'm certainly not admitting the, the, the african it'll, when i say breaks. i'm also told me about africa in a very big way because i, i read a report from most go the other day. maybe i'm wrong minister, private or pull the said. every african nation has been invited to join brakes. do you know about, oh no, no, this is not, this is not true. no, we don't invite to join us at the moment we do have an outreach component of the bricks, activities, the outreaching, to the invitations to heads of regional organizations worldwide. as well as normally south africa is the chair tool african need is uh so we have invited the heads of states as well as heads of regional bodies such as the gulf console actually and so on. so this is a normal process that all of us follow a when we are chair of, of the breaks for when it comes to the russia,

africa summit happening for the next few days here in, in, in uh, what we like to call the venice of the north here in saint petersburg and it is such a beautiful city and as a great time of the year, it's a bit cloudy today, admittedly minutes stuff, but it has been a beautiful summer. so far. this is, this is one of those rare opportunities to get people to the same table to get everyone on the under the same kind of pizza to discuss, discuss common goals. can you give me a little teaser as to um, are there other, any surprises or secret single back pocket that you want to unveil at this summit? any major concerns, any new plans, any new initiatives that, that perhaps you can just give me a secret, little hint as to what might be coming karla. this is what it is. a secret. no. um, i think that uh, you know, world is i to worry moments and i, i don't want to on the play uh, the threat that faces us as the global community. if we're unable to resolve current challenges. um, you know,

we're worried as the continental visual foot security, for example. so the brain initiative is very important and we would want to see this resolved in a manner that addresses both the concerns of russia as well as the concerns of the african continent. so these issues that we would like to have greater deliberation on. um, you know, i often raise this concern about green exports with my colleagues. and about the impact of unilateral sanctions which assigned to that don't come through the united nations system by the, imposed by individual countries on other countries. and when i tell friends that to these usually lateral sanctions, owners have a full 2nd re fax, particularly for developing countries. they say to me, but we do an essentials on food. we don't have sections on this and i say, but we have feeling the impact. so i do think we need to resolve all the

issues related to matches of food security and that would be part of, i think be more important, a side live discussions that will take place. yeah. also think about those of trade um are going to enjoy a great deal of prominence and increasing the issues of digital the economy, digital security becoming a global matters that we have to have some improvement on. because, you know, to stop cyber attacks, to show cyber security, we have to call per 8. we must share resources. so those would be important discussions. i see all security advisors are meeting. so we look forward to hearing what comes out of their deliberations as well. and all of us have fairly large business delegation. so hoping that some contracts will be fine when you talk about

the, the black sea, colorado. the, the grand initiative, as i understand most ago, said that the grand initiative has only been temporarily suspended. it has not been closed and the credit has said that it is open to find a way to further negotiate the resumption of the grand passage in the black sea cordele. now lady pend, or to the foreign minister of south africa. i could talk to you old a. it's been so enlightening really fascinating and was so proud to have you here in saint petersburg for the summit. thank you very much for your time today. thank you. please me a thank you for the opportunity. the release of russian states never as one of the most sense community

best in most all sense and up the in the 65 to 5 must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on thrushes per day and split the r t smooth neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services for the question, did you say even closer to the the, to do you think on for to know what the key business key bought and what i'm

looking for that. yeah, cuz i was online. what they've done that the way you well, but i'm here, but the ability to store my one, but i think i think most public enough for me to send them. yeah, i'm sure it's not that you of the doors must be the phone. go to the, remember, it's all about correct because are moving on a brief hold of the difference. the is the west propaganda war against russia. beginning to show practice the military situation. your brain is being revealed is grim with anything approaching optimism fading. nonetheless, the, by the administration and the inner parties,

soldier on wasting ukrainian blood the head, the, all the way expands things. there were no of the goals for developing countries to make payments and national currencies. as president putin stresses that the dollar is being used as a political told the south african president 0 run last thursday i arrived in russia on the 8th of this summit in saint petersburg, we speak with south africa's foreign minister. he says, the confident left me feeling this legacy of neo colonialism. it's his time that all continental airlines that has the possibility of being an extremely powerful part of the world. and we need to be.